Zoophobia

[Käpt'n]

3 hours ago, AlastairSnowpaw said:

ah, well it's fine to have those ideas, but with such a slow update speed  it's kind of hard to keep it together. and even then there should be a format to introduction of characters.

At the current pace it'll take years for the story to actually go anywhere, let alone come to a conclusion. I mean, she uploads one page a week right now and most of it is filler... The current chapter started in freaking August and nothing has happened since then!

The comic has also become noticeably more trope-y... At the beginning that wasn't really the case but it feels more and more like it's written for Tumblr teens... Addi is currently a prime example for that. He is acting like a typical teenager prick but because if him being uncomfortable with so many situations we are supposed to root for him anyway. To be honest, right now it feels a little bit like I'm reading Twilight >__>

Also, the way she wants to handle the exposition is not very good. Getting the exposition out of the way first will feel very unnatural in the long run and once the actual plot kicks in that change will feel incredibly awkward and jarring. You introduce characters and the world itself to the audience together with the plot, that's how good storytelling works.

Edited March 15, 2016 by Käpt'n

[TrishaCat]

On 3/15/2016 at 9:35 AM, Käpt'n said:

Apparently the story is supposed to be told over multiple books. According to Viv the first two books are supposed to be just exposition to explain the world and all the characters. Two books! And then the rest of the story is supposed to have a deeper plot and even a few casualties. Last year she wrote on her Tumblr blog that the story is supposed to be kind of brutal.
I just don't see how this is gonna work out... I'm getting the feeling that the whole thing might become a complete clusterfuck.
Also, Viv is apparently kind of resistant to critique and doesn't take it very well. That is not a good sign as well.

I wrote about my issues with her comic on my Tumblr blog and she actually responded to  it. Wasn't really anything beyond "I understand your issues but I really like where my current art style is at" but still.

I don't understand the books thing. She said the whole story is supposed to be 10 books long. Like, how does that work if she's been doing this for years and isn't even finished with the first book? She needs to pick up the pace or else its not going to happen.

Also, the way she wants to handle the exposition is not very good. Getting the exposition out of the way first will feel very unnatural in the long run and once the actual plot kicks in that change will feel incredibly awkward and jarring. You introduce characters and the world itself to the audience together with the plot, that's how good storytelling works.

I don't disagree but I've seen works that focus mostly on character introductions first through mostly filler before going anywhere. A prime example of this I can think of is the anime Durarara!!, which I think turned out fairly well. I think the issue is how she's going about introducing the world and characters; she's moving focus away from Cameron, who was supposed to be the reader's eye into this new world. Or at least that's how I took it. The movement away from her is very disorienting, as now there's no one to relate to to look into this world from and learn about it from the perspective of. Instead its just flip flopping from character to character, and the world is so different from our own that I dont' think this is necessarily a good idea.

Edited March 16, 2016 by Battlechili

[Käpt'n]

@Battlechili If she keeps going at this pace it's gonna take decades for her to release all ten books. In that case it is actually a valid concern that she is never gonna finish them.
The Harry Potter books were released over the course of ten years (1997 to 2007). That s a decade as well, but in this case a book came out, you could read it in its entirety and then wait for the next one. That works. People are ok with that.
Viv's comic is supposed to be published later on. Even the boring chapters wouldn't be much of an issue in that case because you can skip through them in a few minutes. But we are currently stuck with bitch-Addi for SEVEN. MONTHS! We can't skip the chapter, we are stuck with it. And every time a new page is released in which sweet FA happens it's just gonna be more disappointment. And what happens when people are disappointed with a webcomic? They stop giving a shit.

And sure, it is possible to get the exposition out of the way first, you just need to do it right. Introducing 50 characters through boring sidestories in two books over the course of a few years is not how you do it right...
Also, I think you are right. Without Cameron the comic has lost a relatable element and now we feel just as lost as Cam herself.

[Endless/Nameless]

2 hours ago, Battlechili said:

she's moving focus away from Cameron, who was supposed to be the reader's eye into this new world. Or at least that's how I took it. The movement away from her is very disorienting, as now there's no one to relate to to look into this world from and learn about it from the perspective of. Instead its just flip flopping from character to character, and the world is so different from our own that I dont' think this is necessarily a good idea.

I was pretty confused myself at how Cameron faded into the background so quickly; however, I felt that since the rest of the characters and subplots ended up so interesting, it still worked really well and felt like she was really building a "world". But now with this Addi subplot, things just kinda died in the water. You can like or dislike Addi all you want, but her story is incredibly boring so far, and I don't think anybody has any idea why we should be caring. There seemed to be a promise of some kinda plot point developing out of it, but

Nope, still nothing. 

Personally I think the reason we've gotten so much focus put on this little love triangle for so long is because she appears to have gotten a such an enthusiastic response to these LGBT characters from the tumblr hypergays. Sorry if that sounds cynical but....yeah. 

I still love the comic tho and hope for the best. 

[Käpt'n]

@Endless/NamelessThe previous chapters really were interesting! We got Cam settling in, Jack's backstory, how Damian handles going to that school even though his dad is Satàn, the whole vampire thing... It was neat! That was why we went apeshit over this comic on old FAF to begin with. It was a fun comic with interesting characters that didn't take itself too seriously.
But now it has kind of become... Pretentious? I guess that's the best way to describe it. Also, the fact that Gustav is one of my least favorite characters and that he is a main character in the current chapter does not help at all. And at the same time this chapter just goes on and on and on without anything happening!
I swear, if this chapter manages to make me hate Damian I might give up on this comic entirely.

Yes, she does get a lot of asspats for including LGBT characters or really just characters that are so effing androgynous you can't tell what gender they are supposed to be. Case in point, Addi is a dude! :V
As for characters in general, the fact that she had to make changes to certain characters because she had a falling out with a friend really blows as well and it left a noticable mark on the pace and tone of the comic.
In all honesty, this has become a giant mess and I don't know if I can become as enthusiastic about this comic again as I used to be. If the next chapter is just as boring and two dimensional as this one I might become too bored to care anymore.

[AlastairSnowpaw]

I dont' really hate gustav he's fine and I don't care either way for addi. though the way characters act bug me the most. Like i don't understand why token bully guy is still a bully in the exact same way after getting his shit kicked in as a kid, like it doesn't seem like it makes sense for him to bully in the exact same way. Also i'm really confused as to why Damien is acting super angry, doesn't seem to make sense for his character.

[Käpt'n]

Yeah, you are right. How the characters act really did change a lot. She used to handle them pretty well, but now it's just ridiculously overacted and often makes no sense.

If what Viv said when the comic first started is still true he is probably angry because he has a crush on Addi. But at this point things have changed so much that I have no clue what's going on. Viv also draws him together with a pink snake dude who apparently is his partner, but I got no idea anymore...
Back then things were simple. A ton of characters but their relationships and personalities were all pretty clear. Now she changed everything so often that it became a huge mess.
Also, and this is a huge problem in my opinion, she has like three blogs where she posts stuff about the characters. There's the comic's blog, her personal blog, her other personal blog, she mentions stuff when she's streaming, apparently there is a blog about the characters again... I don't even know where to look anymore D:

Edit: Here's said pink snake dude:

 

Edited March 19, 2016 by Käpt'n

[Endless/Nameless]

Hoping after today's page the story will temporarily segue into something more interesting.

Just give me some Zech, or Fabian, Jack or Zill, anything other than der snobsnake and Mr. touchy-feely!!!!!

[Endless/Nameless]

Latest tumblr post from Viv, in response to a fan's complaint about the same issues we've been discussing:

Quote

I figured the current arc would have a mixed reaction. I guess all I can say is sorry, I didn’t really mean for it to get this long but I’m wrapping it up and the next 3 arcs will be very different from this one if you wanna stick around.
Plus you never know what might be coming in a few pages
Some people like stuff like this, and it has purpose later on believe it or now c:

That's pretty much what I've been thinking. Here's hoping for better stuff to come. 

[Käpt'n]

2 hours ago, Endless/Nameless said:

Latest tumblr post from Viv, in response to a fan's complaint about the same issues we've been discussing:

That's pretty much what I've been thinking. Here's hoping for better stuff to come. 

Oh man I hope this is true. I do feel kind of like a dick for saying how boring this chapter was because I really enjoyed the rest of the comic, but it's just that this chapter has been going on for SO long! It just really started to get boring.

[Troj]

I'm getting annoyed with the current plot thread too. We were JUST learning more about Cameron and Jack, and getting hints of potential threats against the Safe Haven, and now the whole plot has to stop dead for Degrassi: Furry Edition.

You know it's gotten bad when Dreaming of Utopia is managing to hold my attention more.

Here's to hoping it get back on track.

Edited March 22, 2016 by Troj

[Käpt'n]

Oh frick... 

10 hours ago, Endless/Nameless said:

Latest tumblr post from Viv, in response to a fan's complaint about the same issues we've been discussing:

That's pretty much what I've been thinking. Here's hoping for better stuff to come. 

I just checked the comic blog. What she quoted there from Zoophobia-Confessions? Yeah, that was me. I submitted that when Damian started to blow a gasket over the whole thing and it really annoyed me.
Gotta be honest, I really feel like a dick right now. I mean, sure. What I said is true, that is how I feel about this arc. I am not sorry about having said that. Right now I just wish I didn't say it in such a blunt way.

[Endless/Nameless]

Just now, Käpt'n said:

Oh frick... 

I just checked the comic blog. What she quoted there from Zoophobia-Confessions? Yeah, that was me. I submitted that when Damian started to blow a gasket over the whole thing and it really annoyed me.
Gotta be honest, I really feel like a dick right now. I mean, sure. What I said is true, that is how I feel about this arc. I am not sorry about having said that. Right now I just wish I didn't say it in such a blunt way.

It was from there, yup.

I know what you mean, I always felt kinda bad about complaining myself. But it's not like it's good to just say everything is peachy all the time either... Artists do need to be able to take criticism at times.

I just try to retain a spirit of supportiveness. I still love what she does.

[Käpt'n]

According to her blog Viv will move away from the traditional webcomic releases once this arc is finished.
Instead she will finish each arc completely and release it as one PDF.
She is doing that because of a lack of motivation and mental stress.

I honestly think that this is the better way to release the comic. As I said time and time again, I never thought the comic worked particularly well as a webcomic. So instead of going on for 7 months you can just skip through this chapter and be done with it.

[TrishaCat]

Is it me or does the last few pages make Damian seem...out of character? Also his design looks weird now.

[Troj]

I think it suggests he has a crush on his friend.

Incidentally, I love LGBTQ representation in fiction, but the sheer number of queer characters in Zoophobia (at least based on the character bios I saw before) comes across as kind of unbelievable, unnatural, "try-hard," and "Tumblry."

[Endless/Nameless]

8 hours ago, Battlechili said:

Is it me or does the last few pages make Damian seem...out of character? Also his design looks weird now.

I think it's more that we're supposed to be seeing a different side of him, for better or for worse.

6 hours ago, Troj said:

Incidentally, I love LGBTQ representation in fiction, but the sheer number of queer characters in Zoophobia (at least based on the character bios I saw before) comes across as kind of unbelievable, unnatural, "try-hard," and "Tumblry."

I noticed the same thing. She gets a lot of ass-pats for it on tumblr too. 

Still love the comic though!!! I just wish things hadn't gotten so.....messy, lately. :\ 

[Endless/Nameless]

Viv drew me :3

 

[Data]

so, is she just focusing on youtube now? or is this project actually abandoned at this point

[Endless/Nameless]

10 minutes ago, Aeon said:

so, is she just focusing on youtube now? or is this project actually abandoned at this point

She's gonna start over redraw the comic from scratch when and if she gets the time. 

It's kinda sad but I think it'll probably be for the best for the comic, after considering it. 

 

[Endless/Nameless]

Officially update from Viv about it all: 

It's a teeny bit troubling to see her abandon/start projects so easily.... Also she looked really stressed... But I do think as far as the comic goes, she's probably making  he right choice  She technically could have just kept slogging on with it, yeah; but chances are we'll get something that's overall better in the end. And hopefully easier on her. Happy Viv is good Viv.

I'm sad to hear the Allison short was shelved tho :c I was so looking forward to that... Oh well.

In lighter news, I got another drawing from her!! :3c

Edited May 1, 2017 by Endless/Nameless

[TrishaCat]

It was supposed to get published ;_;

I was looking forward to buying and owning Zoophobia physically. And I love her old art, but her newer art is spotty imo. I understand her concerns with her narrative, as some parts of it are spotty, for example not actually giving readers a proper tour of the school. But I still enjoyed it nonetheless, and the idea of a reboot leaves the possibility of making some parts of the old version of the comic and making it worse. There were parts of it that I thought were wonderful, from the expressiveness of the characters to just amusing bits like this:

I love this old art, and I don't think we'll ever see Zoophobia like this again. ;_;

[Endless/Nameless]

2 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

It was supposed to get published ;_;

I was looking forward to buying and owning Zoophobia physically. 

SAME ;-; I wanted to hold it in my hands so bad...

4 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

I love this old art, and I don't think we'll ever see Zoophobia like this again. ;_;

At least we have the memories. And I backed up a copy of all the pages as they are now for posterity, just in case. It made me smile so much when I first found it; I don't wanna forget that. 

My favorite page:

I still think she can make something great if not greater out if it yet tho; even if the original magic it had gets lost to time.