RAVE: Diagnosis

[DrGravitas]

If you feel the one you're using now isn't very useful you should probably bring it up with your psychiatrist and talk about what else you can try. It's something of a process of elimination in my experience. How effective the drug is will vary from person to person so all they can do is recommend things that might help you and then find out to what extent they do.

Do most people go through a psychologist for this stuff? I go through my regular doctor; have for as long as I can remember, including back when it was my pediatrician. I only ever had a psychology-related person involved at one or two special evaluations early on.

[Wolflich]

Do most people go through a psychologist for this stuff? I go through my regular doctor; have for as long as I can remember, including back when it was my pediatrician. I only ever had a psychology-related person involved at one or two special evaluations early on.

I guess it depends where you are. Here (AU) the GPs refer me to a psychiatrist (not psychologist) for that kind of thing, and once the psychiatrist has decided what I'm going to be on in the longer term (usually after trying a few different drugs/doses over the course of some months) they'll send a letter back to the GP and then I would get my prescriptions there from then on. Maybe that's different there and you can get these things directly from a GP. Whether or not that's a good idea I'm not sure... mostly when I've seen any GP here about anything to do with mental illness they will readily admit this isn't their area of expertise and write me a referral instead. YMMV.

[Gamedog]

Really dicey is when a client starts asking for medication because they seem to believe it'll magically fix their presenting problem without them having to do anything else, or when I'm presented with a child with issues of some sort or another, and the parents are in a tug-of-war with the teachers about whether or not to medicate the kid.

Rarely, you'll get the parent who is perhaps overly eager to medicate their kid, or a bit too acquiescent to the doctor's instructions, but I find most parents are more likely to be wary or skeptical of medication, actually, even in cases where the kid might really benefit from it.

 

Just tell them that the medication will give their kid autism, that will scare them away!

[Brass]

Do most people go through a psychologist for this stuff? I go through my regular doctor; have for as long as I can remember, including back when it was my pediatrician. I only ever had a psychology-related person involved at one or two special evaluations early on.

When I was going through "rehabilitation" as a kid my psychologist put me on Ritalin.Some psychologists are qualified to write prescriptions but you must check with them to confirm this. As it's been stated many, many, many, times these medications are trail and error. Also brain chemistry is very volatile. Being on the wrong medication can have very undesirable side affects, some of them being psychological. Hence the psychologist. 

[AshleyAshes]

All psychologists are qualified to write prescriptions, because they are fully licensed medical doctors who have competed med school and then moved on to specialize in psychology.  I think you are thinking of psychiatrists, who are PhDs rather than MDs, and have not gone to medical school or have medical licenses.

Edited November 12, 2015 by AshleyAshes

[Phausk]

All psychologists are qualified to write prescriptions, because they are fully licensed medical doctors who have competed med school and then moved on to specialize in psychology.  I think you are thinking of psychiatrists, who are PhDs rather than MDs, and have not gone to medical school or have medical licenses.

Think you might have those two confused. Psychiatrists can prescribe prescriptions, but psychologists can't in most cases.

[Brass]

All psychologists are qualified to write prescriptions, because they are fully licensed medical doctors who have competed med school and then moved on to specialize in psychology.  I think you are thinking of psychiatrists, who are PhDs rather than MDs, and have not gone to medical school or have medical licenses.

No I meant what I said you syrup sucker. Psychologists do not have medical degrees. They cannot normally write prescriptions. 

Pretty much everything you say is already some sort of insult to yourself so I don't have a snappy remark for this

[Zeke]

Stop with the infighting and keep on topic. Any post that I find that's remotely off topic will get a warning/infraction.

Thank you!

 

*Goes back to enjoying my beer*

[GemWolf]

Medications effect people differently. E.g My friend cannot take normal pain killers as they give her hot/cold flushes and make her vomit, whereas I can take them just fine and they do the job.

 I have been on Ritalin since age 6, and my life has been the better for it. My son takes after me in a lot of ways, so I have my fingers crossed that the Ritalin will help me as much as it helped me.

[Gamedog]

Okay I've been silent on this thread, but I just need to speak my mind on this.

Ritalin is an amphetamine -- no, not methamphetamine, but an amphetamine nonetheless (the family includes meth as well as ecstacy). Amphetamines are stimulants, they are a drug that fucks with your brain's chemicals.

Ritalin and ADD has been GROSSLY over-diagnosed to children, in my opinion. Back when I was younger, every kid on the block had ADD. Every single kid who was a bit hyper, rowdy, who couldn't sit still, they all had ADD. Every single one! Can you believe that!
Why couldn't they just be "normal" kids, normal 5 and 6 year olds who sit around quietly, patiently, who don't fidget or jump around much, who---wh..
wait...
Huh? Does that sound right to anyone else? In what world is it abnormal for a kid that young to NOT act like that? Here are a list of criteria from WebMD that are signs of ADD. Keep in mind that it's almost always CHILDREN who are diagnosed with this:

• Are in constant motion
• Squirm and fidget
• Make careless mistakes
• Often lose things
• Do not seem to listen
• Are easily distracted
• Do not finish tasks

If I were to say "my 6 year old is too hyper! He won't sit down and do his homework, and he never sits still in the dentist's office! What is wrong with him???" would you automatically jump to saying that there is something psychologically wrong with him, or would you chalk it up to him being an average 6 year old boy?

Not only that, but they take this boy and shove stimulants in him in order to force him to act abnormally for his age. They keep him on these stimulants for his entire life and he believes this is "normal".. well newsflash, that boy has never truly known what life without that drug is like, and he never will. My reasoning for bringing that up was this quote:
" I have been on Ritalin since age 6, and my life has been the better for it. My son takes after me in a lot of ways, so I have my fingers crossed that the Ritalin will help me as much as it helped me."
You have never truly known what life without Ritalin is like, so you can't accurately say that you know your "life has been better for it". You don't know what your life without drugs is, and neither does your son. You and your son are similar in that you're comparing those criteria between the two of you, you're comparing yourself as a child (I would assume not as an adult, given you are on medication to correct these symptoms??) to your son who is currently 6 years old.
You then go on to say that you want to put your son on Ritalin because you were put on Ritalin. Shouldn't that sort of thing be left to when he has matured psychologically? When he is an adult and can make that decision for himself? Allow him to grow out of the hyperactive child stage and figure things out on his own. My brother fit all of those criteria and he was prescribed Ritalin once, but my mom wouldn't put him on it. He's grown out of that stage and no longer acts like a hyperactive 6 year old, given the fact that he's an adult now. Weird, right? My dad was diagnosed with ADD, was never on medication, and he doesn't experience those symptoms anymore. ????

This decision reminds me of another: "I'm getting my son circumcised because I was circumcised". It's illogical, it's nonsensical, and in my personal opinion, it's cruel.

 

Edit: I'm gonna share my own personal experience now, to show what a crock of shit diagnoses are these days
Just before I turned 12, my mom died from cancer. I had some time off of school for a few months, obviously, before going back. I was depressed about the loss of my mom and was for quite a wqhile. For some reason, psychologists got involved and diagnosed me with bipolar disorder because i was depressed, and attempted to force me on lithium to treat my "bipolar".
My dad refused to put ,me on this drug, and they threatened to take him to court over it. Eventually, Child Protective Services backed off and left us alone.
Fun Fact: I have never experienced bipolar mood swings and I am not bipolar. Being depressed after the death of a parent is completely normal. Putting a child on drugs because they act normal for the situation/age is not okay.
 

Edited November 12, 2015 by Gamedog

[GemWolf]

Okay I've been silent on this thread, but I just need to speak my mind on this.

Ritalin is an amphetamine -- no, not methamphetamine, but an amphetamine nonetheless (the family includes meth as well as ecstacy). Amphetamines are stimulants, they are a drug that fucks with your brain's chemicals.

Ritalin and ADD has been GROSSLY over-diagnosed to children, in my opinion. Back when I was younger, every kid on the block had ADD. Every single kid who was a bit hyper, rowdy, who couldn't sit still, they all had ADD. Every single one! Can you believe that!
Why couldn't they just be "normal" kids, normal 5 and 6 year olds who sit around quietly, patiently, who don't fidget or jump around much, who---wh..
wait...
Huh? Does that sound right to anyone else? In what world is it abnormal for a kid that young to NOT act like that? Here are a list of criteria from WebMD that are signs of ADD. Keep in mind that it's almost always CHILDREN who are diagnosed with this:

• Are in constant motion
• Squirm and fidget
• Make careless mistakes
• Often lose things
• Do not seem to listen
• Are easily distracted
• Do not finish tasks

If I were to say "my 6 year old is too hyper! He won't sit down and do his homework, and he never sits still in the dentist's office! What is wrong with him???" would you automatically jump to saying that there is something psychologically wrong with him, or would you chalk it up to him being an average 6 year old boy?

Not only that, but they take this boy and shove stimulants in him in order to force him to act abnormally for his age. They keep him on these stimulants for his entire life and he believes this is "normal".. well newsflash, that boy has never truly known what life without that drug is like, and he never will. My reasoning for bringing that up was this quote:
" I have been on Ritalin since age 6, and my life has been the better for it. My son takes after me in a lot of ways, so I have my fingers crossed that the Ritalin will help me as much as it helped me."
You have never truly known what life without Ritalin is like, so you can't accurately say that you know your "life has been better for it". You don't know what your life without drugs is, and neither does your son. You and your son are similar in that you're comparing those criteria between the two of you, you're comparing yourself as a child (I would assume not as an adult, given you are on medication to correct these symptoms??) to your son who is currently 6 years old.
You then go on to say that you want to put your son on Ritalin because you were put on Ritalin. Shouldn't that sort of thing be left to when he has matured psychologically? When he is an adult and can make that decision for himself? Allow him to grow out of the hyperactive child stage and figure things out on his own. My brother fit all of those criteria and he was prescribed Ritalin once, but my mom wouldn't put him on it. He's grown out of that stage and no longer acts like a hyperactive 6 year old, given the fact that he's an adult now. Weird, right? My dad was diagnosed with ADD, was never on medication, and he doesn't experience those symptoms anymore. ????

This decision reminds me of another: "I'm getting my son circumcised because I was circumcised". It's illogical, it's nonsensical, and in my personal opinion, it's cruel.

Have you even read anything I have said? At all even??

Firstly, I DO know what life is like without Ritalin because i don't take it on weekends. Secondly, my son has not started is medication yet. Thirdly - you are not a d, more importantly ..........

My son not only has been assessed my many different Drs, he has ALSO had those different Drs do an "in class assessment" at different times (he visit his classroom at school and observe him). The class was told these Dr's were visiting the school to see how well the school does and they are to be on their best behavior.  All Drs observed that my son stood out from the rest of his class mates. The teachers also told me months ago that Leo is the only kid in class that cannot still still during book reading, writing, building activities and may other tasks. He shouts out in class for no reason (done this since he could talk, just spontaneously screams, no words just screams) and many other strange behaviors that none of his class mates do at all.

I have tried the diet changes, the discipline changes, punishment/reward changes, fish oils, natural herbs - you name it I have tried it. We were banned from taking our son to the local shopping mall because of his behavior. I have two kids, my daughter does not act like this at all.

I have taken every single necessary step to ensure that he is not over diagnosed, and been to behavioral/parenting classes in case it was my fault etc. You have no idea the drama I have been through to make sure my son can excel in life. So please don't EVER call me cruel, because as a parent that is the LAST thing that I am. 

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

You really like tooting your own horn, Gem

[GemWolf]

You really like tooting your own horn, Gem

If you have got it, flaunt it I say! lol

Not many mums out there like me.  

Edited November 12, 2015 by GemWolf

[Gamedog]

Have you even read anything I have said? At all even??

Firstly, I DO know what life is like without Ritalin because i don't take it on weekends. Secondly, my son has not started is medication yet. Thirdly - you are not a d, more importantly ..........

My son not only has been assessed my many different Drs, he has ALSO had those different Drs do an "in class assessment" at different times (he visit his classroom at school and observe him). The class was told these Dr's were visiting the school to see how well the school does and they are to be on their best behavior.  All Drs observed that my son stood out from the rest of his class mates. The teachers also told me months ago that Leo is the only kid in class that cannot still still during book reading, writing, building activities and may other tasks. He shouts out in class for no reason (done this since he could talk, just spontaneously screams, no words just screams) and many other strange behaviors that none of his class mates do at all.

I have tried the diet changes, the discipline changes, punishment/reward changes, fish oils, natural herbs - you name it I have tried it. We were banned from taking our son to the local shopping mall because of his behavior. I have two kids, my daughter does not act like this at all.

I have taken every single necessary step to ensure that he is not over diagnosed, and been to behavioral/parenting classes in case it was my fault etc. You have no idea the drama I have been through to make sure my son can excel in life. So please don't EVER call me cruel, because as a parent that is the LAST thing that I am. 

 

What is the purpose of not taking Ritalin on the weekends, may I ask?

I don't have to be a doctor to know that forcing amphetamines down the throat of a child for the rest of his life is going to be detrimental to his mental (and most likely physical) health down the road. Let kids be kids, and being a kid means being hyperactive and annoying.

Kids do stupid things for entertainment, but they grow out of them. I used to spontaneously bite the shit out of house-guests, and run up and down the aisles of Walmart on all fours until I was forcibly dragged out of the store by my parents. Not because I had a mental disorder, but because it was fun for me to do (I was pretending to be a cat) and because I was a child.

I think your child deserves to be able to make this decision for himself. If you can make the decision to stop taking Ritalin on the weekends, why can't he make the decision to start taking this, when he is mentally mature enough to do the research and decide for himself? Adults getting themselves diagnosed is not unheard of.

In my opinion, anyone who suggests on a public forum that they put their 6 year old on an addictive, mind-altering stimulant, is asking for criticism. Well, you've got it. Surprise?

Edited November 12, 2015 by Gamedog

[GemWolf]

 

What is the purpose of not taking Ritalin on the weekends, may I ask?

I don't have to be a doctor to know that forcing amphetamines down the throat of a child for the rest of his life is going to be detrimental to his mental (and most likely physical) health down the road. Let kids be kids, and being a kid means being hyperactive and annoying.

Kids do stupid things for entertainment, but they grow out of them. I used to spontaneously bite the shit out of house-guests, and run up and down the aisles of Walmart on all fours until I was forcibly dragged out of the store by my parents. Not because I had a mental disorder, but because it was fun for me to do (I was pretending to be a cat) and because I was a child.

I think your child deserves to be able to make this decision for himself. If you can make the decision to stop taking Ritalin on the weekends, why can't he make the decision to start taking this, when he is mentally mature enough to do the research and decide for himself? Adults getting themselves diagnosed is not unheard of.

In my opinion, anyone who suggests that they put their 6 year old on an addictive, mind-altering stimulant, is asking for criticism. Well, you've got it. Surprise?

 

Its a wear off tablet, only need it for concentration at work. Just as my son will really only need it for concentration at school.

you said - "I don't have to be a doctor to know that forcing amphetamines down the throat of a child for the rest of his life is going to be detrimental to his mental (and most likely physical) health down the road. Let kids be kids, and being a kid means being hyperactive and annoying."  

LOL really? yeah because I am totally messed up, with a good paying job, my own place and stable mentality! LOL 

And as for your opinion - well, that is all it is really. You want to think that all this is bullshit that is fine. You don't know anything or have any idea what you are really talking about. Maybe one day, IF you become a father and your child has any abnormal behaviors you may just understand. In the meantime, you have a lot of growing up to do.

I am a good mum. My son has been officially diagnosed, and over the years it has been a long hard road. A child cannot make this decision by themselves,  and waiting till he is old enough well haha seriously do you even realize what ADHD even is? For someone who has legitimately got the disorder you cannot wait until they are adult, because by then school is over and those are the years that they need help the most.

I appreciate your concern, and as politely as I can I am going to ask you not to talk about something you obviously don't know anything about. 

 

Oh and one more thing  - Ritalin is NOT addictive 

I have requested this thread to be locked 

Edited November 12, 2015 by GemWolf

[Gamedog]

 

Its a wear off tablet, only need it for concentration at work. Just as my son will really only need it for concentration at school.

you said - "I don't have to be a doctor to know that forcing amphetamines down the throat of a child for the rest of his life is going to be detrimental to his mental (and most likely physical) health down the road. Let kids be kids, and being a kid means being hyperactive and annoying."  

LOL really? yeah because I am totally messed up, with a good paying job, my own place and stable mentality! LOL 

And as for your opinion - well, that is all it is really. You want to think that all this is bullshit that is fine. You don't know anything or have any idea what you are really talking about. Maybe one day, IF you become a father and your child has any abnormal behaviors you may just understand. In the meantime, you have a lot of growing up to do.

I am a good mum. My son has been officially diagnosed, and over the years it has been a long hard road. A child cannot make this decision by themselves,  and waiting till he is old enough well haha seriously do you even realize what ADHD even is? For someone who has legitimately got the disorder you cannot wait until they are adult, because by then school is over and those are the years that they need help the most.

I appreciate your concern, and as politely as I can I am going to ask you not to talk about something you obviously don't know anything about. 

 

Oh and one more thing  - Ritalin is NOT addictive 

I have requested this thread to be locked 

So you use Ritalin "just cause", in the same way that college students use it when burned out but need to get that last paper in? In what way is that a treatment for ADD, if it's used only during certain times?

As a gay male, I wont have a kid of my own. However, I can tell you from experience that diagnosing a child with a disorder that considers his normal behaviours to be abnormal os a bit batty. I remember the "pill cart" being pushed around at school. Ive seen friendd and family diagnosed with ADD who grew out of it once they were no longer a hyperactive child.

Ritalin is addictive, its also called "speed". Familiar with that street drug name?

 

Edit: i just re-read and saw that "the signs were there since he was 1"

This is absolu fucking lutely mindboggling

I need to sleep this off. Let this be a nightmare 

Edited November 12, 2015 by Gamedog

[GemWolf]

So you use Ritalin "just cause", in the same way that college students use it when burned out but need to get that last paper in? In what way is that a treatment for ADD, if it's used only during certain times?

As a gay male, I wont have a kid of my own. However, I can tell you from experience that diagnosing a child with a disorder that considers his normal behaviours to be abnormal os a bit batty. I remember the "pill cart" being pushed around at school. Ive seen friendd and family diagnosed with ADD who grew out of it once they were no longer a hyperactive child.

Ritalin is addictive, its also called "speed". Familiar with that street drug name?

honestly, you have no clue you really don't mate. I for one am not about to sit here and explain it to you. You are arrogant and stubborn. 

This is simply an Internet Social media forum, none of what you say will ever been taken seriously over my sons Drs. Ritalin is speed based yes, and to people who are not ADHD it prob is addictive. However, to true ADHD sufferers it is not actually addictive. 

I am done. Say whatever you like. Thanks for ruining a happy thread that I wanted to share with all the struggles I have been through. 

- Mods, please lock this thread 

Edited November 12, 2015 by GemWolf

[Vae]

Six-years-old seems like a horribly young age to try to force a diagnosis out of a child, for the sake of the convenience that it provides the adults involved.
I'm not anti-medication or anti-diagnosis. In fact, I readily encourage them when it might help.
But that's someone who's barely started life, and they've been given absolutely no time to develop, yet.

My sister-in-law has had a lot of difficulties with her child, in school and otherwise. We're pretty sure he has ADHD and anxiety. He screams, he breaks things, and he freaks out over small issues sometimes. But rather than try and screw up his chemicals at the earliest possible convenience (He's 7.), she just works him through it, through patience and understanding.
Not through snake oils or herbal stuff or chemical cures. It's a long process, and it's difficult, but it works.

The fact that you even felt like there were signs of a disorder at age one feels grossly suspect that this was more for the benefits of the adults who "have to deal with it," because it's an easy solution, rather than the effect it will actually have on the child's happiness and quality of life for themself.

Also, you shouldn't automatically react towards criticism and concern with "But I know what I'm doing and you don't. Lol I have a house. ;D ;D ;D" and "stop bullying me."
Medication and psychological health are very fragile issues. It should be expected that concern is going to arise.

[Gamedog]

honestly, you have no clue you really don't mate. I for one am not about to sit here and explain it to you. You are arrogant and stubborn. 

This is simply an Internet Social media forum, none of what you say will ever been taken seriously over my sons Drs. Ritalin is speed based yes, and to people who are not ADHD it prob is addictive. However, to true ADHD sufferers it is not actually addictive. 

I am done. Say whatever you like. Thanks for ruining a happy thread that I wanted to share with all the struggles I have been through. 

- Mods, please lock this thread 

you couldnt possibly have expected not to get criticism over this.

"it is not actually addictive to true adhd sufferers"

i am prescribed xanax for an anxiett disorder. Do you think i can get addicted to it? Xanax is one of the most addictive presc drugs out there. Give me your knowledge please.

You admit that Ritalin (broad street slang is speed) is used as a recreational street drug to get high and yet you want to put a 6 year old on it.

you say that ritalin is not addictive and yet youve explained that youve had to increase your doses over the years. Could tis be because your body is becoming reliant on the amount of drug and needs more to feel the effects?

in the same way an alcoholic needs more alcohol to get deunk than a nonalcohic

[GarthTheWereWolf]

Just want to throw in that Gamedog is correct in that methylphenidate/Ritalin is actually addictive. Its a schedule 2 drug; meaning it has a high potential for abuse and extreme liability for physical and psychological dependence. But doctors know this already and take that into consideration when they prescribe people their doses of medication ;\

It is a little alarming though that your physician didn't include that information in his patient teachings when he prescribed you this drug for your child so that you could avoid accidentally over/under medicating your kid. You should consider talking with your doctor a little more about the medication and what it'll do.

[PastryOfApathy]

Man mental health sure is complicated.

[Gamedog]

I actually have a documentary about child protective services ober diagnosing kids with add

IIRC, they brought a kid in and said "he has ADD" and the psychologist took one look at him and said it was normal behaviour for his age 

She went through the other diagnoses for ADD and realized that it was being grossly overdiagnosed, with kids being fed cocktails of prescs they didnt need

id link but im on my phone atmi

[GemWolf]

Just want to throw in that Gamedog is correct in that methylphenidate/Ritalin is actually addictive. Its a schedule 2 drug; meaning it has a high potential for abuse and extreme liability for physical and psychological dependence. But doctors know this already and take that into consideration when they prescribe people their doses of medication ;\

It is a little alarming though that your physician didn't include that information in his patient teachings when he prescribed you this drug for your child so that you could avoid accidentally over/under medicating your kid. You should consider talking with your doctor a little more about the medication and what it'll do.

well maybe in Australia they have worked out how to make it unaddictive. Because I have been on it all my life, and when I don't take it during holidays or weekends I never ever ever crave it - at all. Not a single margin 

[Gamedog]

It's a stimulant, it's addictive just lije coffee or cocaine is. There is no special unaddictive Ritalin.

To be quite honest, I agree with Vae. Your third paragraph reeks of " thank god they diagnosed him so we can get him on pulls and make it easier for us to relax".

Pardon me if that was an unintentional vibe.

 

I am addicted to caffiene. I can go a day, maybe two, cold turkey... but 3-4 days? Whole body hurts, nose runs, restless, sweating, shaking, feeling like i have the flu , extreme headache.

Going without coffee for 1-2 days and not feeling withdrawal does not mean im not addicted to caffiene.

I remember one day it was so bad that i scrounged up pocket change but it wasnt enough

Went down to the bank in 80*f heat to cash a cheque to get coffee

Edited November 12, 2015 by Gamedog

[GarthTheWereWolf]

well maybe in Australia they have worked out how to make it unaddictive. Because I have been on it all my life, and when I don't take it during holidays or weekends I never ever ever crave it - at all. Not a single margin 

Well that must be it. You Australians are too tough to be affected by addictive drugs in the same way as the rest of the human race. How could I have overlooked this detail. I feel so stupid now :c

Some people are just more tolerant of medications than others. We all have different physiologies and metabolic shiz goin on with us that makes meds affect us differently. And if your doctor knows his shit and prescribed it properly your son probably won't have dependence either, but you should at the very least be aware that it is an addictive substance so that you can be aware of and able to look for signs that your son is becoming dependent. Don't hide your head in the sand cuz you're afraid to backtrack and lose face with people on the internet you disagree with.

[PastryOfApathy]

well maybe in Australia they have worked out how to make it unaddictive. Because I have been on it all my life, and when I don't take it during holidays or weekends I never ever ever crave it - at all. Not a single margin 

If a competent doctor prescribes an appropriate dosage and monitors everything chances are you won't become 'addicted' to it like some kind of deranged tweaker. But, and I can say this as someone whose also been on pills since forever (a furfag tranny with mental problems no way) that you do become reliant on it to function. Of course if you take your prescribed dosage and do what your doctor says everything's peachy.

I propose an experiment to you to test your "ritalin isn't addictive" theory. Stop taking it for 2 weeks, like right now cold turkey and write down how you feel. I can tell you with 100% certainty, you're going to feel like absolute shit. Then once you realize the reason why you suddenly can't get yourself to do anything, you're going to start 'craving' your medication so you can stop feeling like a walking corpse. It's happened to me when I had to stop taking adderall, and it'll happen to you because that's just how this stuff works.

Edited November 12, 2015 by PastryOfApathy

[Vae]

well maybe in Australia they have worked out how to make it unaddictive. Because I have been on it all my life, and when I don't take it during holidays or weekends I never ever ever crave it - at all. Not a single margin 

Your limited personal experiences do not dictate the rest of the world.

I've been smoking and drinking casually for around 8 years. I'm not addicted to either of these things.
But that does not mean they cannot be dangerously addictive to other people.

Nor do I think America just crafted special non-addictive tobacco and alcohol.
Because that idea's just completely absurd.

I do, however, get really strong caffeine addictions. Funny that.

Also, holidays and weekends are nothing. The drug is still fully running in your system between such short break periods.

[Gamedog]

Thr way it goes based on what ive seen, using artist as example:

- artistic, loves to draw. Sometimes a bit scatterbrained

- takes meds to focus, continues drawing

- becomes dependant on drug. When off drug, feels that drug is what caused then to be creative

- does not realise that they were artistic and creative from the start and believes that the drug is what makes them that way, when in reality it just helps them focus while drawing

- feels "uncreative zombie" when off drug

 

Seen this scenario timr and time again

[GemWolf]

If a competent doctor prescribes an appropriate dosage and monitors everything chances are you won't become 'addicted' to it like some kind of tweaker. But, and I can say this as someone whose also been on pills since forever (a furfag tranny with mental problems no way) that you do become reliant on it to function. Of course if you take your prescribed dosage and do what your doctor says everything's peachy.

I propose an experiment to you to test your "ritalin isn't addictive" theory. Stop taking it for 2 weeks, like right now cold turkey and write down how you feel. I can tell you with 100% certainty, you're going to feel like absolute shit. Then once you realize the reason why you suddenly can't get yourself to do anything, you're going to start 'craving' your medication so you can stop feeling like a walking corpse. It's happened to me when I had to stop taking adderall, and it'll happen to you because that's just how this stuff works.

I have been on it for 26 years now. The Ritalin I take wears off after 4 hours. So I take it in the morning after breakfast and it lasts till lunch time. Then I take it again after lunch and it lasts pretty much to end if my work day - worked well for school hours too.

I still see the same dr after all these years and my ADHD has changed as I have aged (some people grow out of it completely), anyway dr says I can take it whenever I need to sit still and concentrate - work for example. 

Just last year I had leave from work, and I didn't take it for 4 weeks straight - well I did only one day because I had an appointment for a blood test that requires it to be in my system.

so there you go  - 4 weeks solid no withdrawals no cravings no nothing - infact my partner had to remind me to take it on my first day back because I forgot lol 

Also, holidays and weekends are nothing. The drug is still fully running in your system between such short break periods.

no not the Ritalin I take - there are two types 

slow release - last long time and takes a while to leave your system 

 

fast acting - hits fast, and leaves system fast 

[Vae]

It's a stimulant, it's addictive just lije coffee or cocaine is. There is no special unaddictive Ritalin.

To be quite honest, I agree with Vae. Your third paragraph reeks of " thank god they diagnosed him so we can get him on pulls and make it easier for us to relax".

Pardon me if that was an unintentional vibe.

The fact that there is also this very strong element of wanting to either quiet or completely brush aside criticism when we're talking about something that should rightfully be a huge concern (Altering how the brain works, in a child so young, no less) also makes it suspect.

I mean, I figure things like addictions and harsh effects later on in life and such should be regarded as more information and a gathering of opinions, rather than as a personal attack.
But that also just brings me to believe it's more about convenience.
Because it's more convenient to believe what you want.

[Gamedog]

I call bullshit. If the feeling of living without Ritalin is so normal to you that you need to be reminded to take it, why take it at all? You say that you're ynder the effects of two pills per day and that it's made your life so much better..... yet it feels so normal without... 

huh?h

[AshleyAshes]

Er... It's pretty normal not to take Ritalin or other ADHD meds on weekends or otherwise whatever days are 'work days'.  People with ADHD are not to be confused with psychotic squirrels who are claimbing up the walls at all time.

I tool Ritalin as a teen, it primarily improved the ability to focus in class and interestingly had a significant improvement on my hand writing, though I figure it's because I was more focused on actually doing the 'writing' thing instead of crapping out chicken scratch.  I eventually, I dunno, 'grew out of it'?  I don't rely on such meds as an adult.  However, even as a child, despite ADHD I could hyper focus on something I enjoyed without issue.  I could spend 6hrs on the floor with my Legos without any difficulty.  Now I spent 9hr days at work doing something I rather enjoy and have no difficulty focusing on it.  Of course while it doesn't apply to all, simply 'out growing' ADHD is a pretty common phenomenon.

[Phausk]

The fact that there is also this very strong element of wanting to either quiet or completely brush aside criticism when we're talking about something that should rightfully be a huge concern (Altering how the brain works, in a child so young, no less) also makes it suspect.

Well, it can be hard to disagree with a professional, especially several, just because random people on the internet do. The random people MIGHT know what they're talking about, but often not, they don't. So I can see why someone would be skeptical. However, it should make the person have second thoughts and make sure they REALLY want to go through with this decision.

[DrGravitas]

There's a difference between ADD and ADHD. Although, the former is now generally known as ADHD predominantly inattentive (ADHD-PI). PI lacks the hyperactivity component and is characterized by greater attention fatigue and tendency to rapidly switch from task to task. This is the type I have. I can say that the very nature of the problem leads me to forget my medication if I don't have a reminder or a very strictly scheduled setup. I most commonly forget it on the weekends, although I usually only take one on the weekends because I simply sleep more. I feel normal off of it, but normal is not good; I wander from task to task and generally accomplish little.

Calling it just speed is a huge stretch. These are no where near the potency of street drugs, no is it even the same setup. It is a racemic mixture of two different kinds of salts in careful proportions and designed to be evenly distributed. Barring the strange dosages of some of the earlier posters, the amounts given through these drugs is no where near what you would get through the street, unless your just getting repackaged meds.

That said, addiction varies from person to person too and these drugs can produce addictive effects. You have to carefully monitor them, but that does not make the drug innately bad. No, not taking them on the weekends and not feeling withdraw symptoms does not mean they aren't addictive.

[Brass]

Well, it can be hard to disagree with a professional, especially several, just because random people on the internet do. The random people MIGHT know what they're talking about, but often not, they don't. So I can see why someone would be skeptical. However, it should make the person have second thoughts and make sure they REALLY want to go through with this decision.

It's easier to be lazy and let the doctor make the hard choices for you than to actually do research and have an open dialogue with the doctor. 

[Misomie]

My bf claims to have ADD (with his brother having ADHD). Pretty sure both are false diagnosises from childhood. My bf gets hyper every now and then and calls it his ADD kicking in but I'm almost 100% positive that it's just excitement....

I know people who legit have the conditions and they are super fidgety and can't concentrate on a single thing for more than a few seconds. Completely different than the other two.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Misomie

[GemWolf]

I have done much research into ADHD. So has my own mom since I was diagnosed as a youngster. For each dr my son has seen, I have made appointments to go back and see them without my son present, so that I could talk to them in much more detail without my son listening in and getting worried etc. Many questions were asked, 

I have been following all information on ADHD for years. Before I became a mother I followed it because of my ADHD, now I follow it for my son. 

Is it because I'm a lazy parent and want to drug my kid for my own benefit? Certainly not! I'm on of those parents that will try everything else to get a high temperature down before turning to paracetamol ffs, let alone stick my kid on Ritalin for a days peace. 

[#00Buck]

Everyone here is mentally ill. 

Except me. 

I just like bass fishing. 

[Wolflich]

I call bullshit. If the feeling of living without Ritalin is so normal to you that you need to be reminded to take it, why take it at all? You say that you're ynder the effects of two pills per day and that it's made your life so much better..... yet it feels so normal without... 

huh?h

I found ritalin like that as well. My handwriting would go from its normal unintelligible scribble to neat letters that people besides me could also read, for instance, and I'd generally have less trouble paying attention to things that wouldn't normally keep my mind occupied. Without it I'd often find I had read down an entire page only to reach the bottom and have to start again because my mind had wandered to some other thought while I was reading and I hadn't retained a word of it. It was definitely useful, but other than things like that I didn't feel any different at all. Not even as if I'd had a cup of tea or coffee. It was very subtle.

On the other hand when I was on dextroamphetamine I could not possibly forget it because I ended up needing it just to stay awake. I'd wake up to my alarm, take the first pill of that day, and then go back to sleep while I waited for it to take effect. Effective stuff but things like that made it really annoying to use which was ultimately why I stopped. Couldn't wake up early, couldn't stay up late, and if I stopped taking it over a weekend or something I would have been (somewhat) awake maybe 4 hours each day.

[Onnes]

I feel as though a number of people are projecting their own prejudices and anecdotal experiences onto GemWolf's statements in this thread, and then expecting her to address those criticisms seriously -- despite having access to a number of professional medical opinions -- and not as entries into the Internet Medical Advice genre. This expectation seems unfair, and I doubt many people in her position would react much differently. Yes, maybe she has worded some things poorly or seemingly made light of the risks for dependency or side-effects; but a lot of that criticism just reads as semantics quibbling, and in any case these are things that should be wholly accounted for by a competent monitoring and treatment program.

 

Six-years-old seems like a horribly young age to try to force a diagnosis out of a child, for the sake of the convenience that it provides the adults involved.
I'm not anti-medication or anti-diagnosis. In fact, I readily encourage them when it might help. ...
...
The fact that you even felt like there were signs of a disorder at age one feels grossly suspect that this was more for the benefits of the adults who "have to deal with it," because it's an easy solution, rather than the effect it will actually have on the child's happiness and quality of life for themself. ...

This would, in fact, be the age range when you'd typically want to try and diagnose or rule out an autism spectrum disorder if you suspect one might be present.

[GemWolf]

I feel as though a number of people are projecting their own prejudices and anecdotal experiences onto GemWolf's statements in this thread, and then expecting her to address those criticisms seriously -- despite having access to a number of professional medical opinions -- and not as entries into the Internet Medical Advice genre. This expectation seems unfair, and I doubt many people in her position would react much differently. Yes, maybe she has worded some things poorly or seemingly made light of the risks for dependency or side-effects; but a lot of that criticism just reads as semantics quibbling, and in any case these are things that should be wholly accounted for by a competent monitoring and treatment program.

 

This would, in fact, be the age range when you'd typically want to try and diagnose or rule out an autism spectrum disorder if you suspect one might be present.

thank you! what you just said, brilliant. means a lot honestly.

Yes he was tested for all types of Autism as well.  

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

You know Gem, if you didn't act like a conceited little kid when people criticize your parenting, we would probably respect your choices more. I'm just saying.

[GemWolf]

"Ritalin is not addictive"

"Maybe in Australia they figured out how to make it unaddictive."

I may not be a doctor, but I am a drug abuse counselor.

ANYTHING that fucks with your dopamine levels has addictive potential.

I find it funny you'd go about telling people "You're not a doctor so you wouldn't know." and then go about making some outrageously wild medical claims when you have no certification or degree of your own.

The utter hypocrisy is staggering.

no need to get nasty!

and the claim I made was its not addictive. Based on my experience. Other than that I made no claims. I said "maybe" - back off 

and as a "drug abuse counsellor" you should know the difference between a recreational drug and a drug measured and monitored by doctors.  

[Lucyfish]

Ritalin is chemically addictive, that is something that cannot be changed because of how it affects your dopamine.

You can still willpower through addiction pretty easily with good support, though. Methylphenidate addiction isn't as intense as amphetamine addiction.

 

Also, there is no difference between recreational drugs and those used and monitored by doctors. The only difference is when it's "recreational" you decide your own dosage instead of a doctor. Powder cocaine is still used in the medical field as a painkiller, LSD is still being used in tests, and Adderall is just straight up Speed.

Edited November 12, 2015 by Lucyfish

[GemWolf]

No, you did NOT make the claim 'based upon your experience.'

So you can see from this tiny screencap of your words up above, you didn't even offer that qualification IN THE FIRST PLACE.

As a drug abuse counselor, I'm also well aware of the hype over-proscription of drugs like Ritalin, Adderall, and etc.

In fact, so is the DEA and a whole slew of other actual medically-qualified personnel - http://www.add-adhd.org/ritalin.html

And that was known TEN YEARS AGO.

Keep backpedaling. That's why you requested the thread be locked.

listen here you nasty piece of *****. Just because I didn't say it with that particular statement, doesn't mean I didn't say it at all. You are nit picking. Stop attacking me and get lost! 

I don't give a shit what DEA etc says, I am not addicted it to it after 26 years so I'm all the evidence I need thanks. 

Furthermore, i am giving my son Ritalin - and that's just that. No more to say about it so just shut your gob and move on 

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

listen here you nasty piece of *****. Just because I didn't say it with that particular statement, doesn't mean I didn't say it at all. You are nit picking. Stop attacking me and get lost! 

I don't give a shit what DEA etc says, I am not addicted it to it after 26 years so I'm all the evidence I need thanks. 

Furthermore, i am giving my son Ritalin - and that's just that. No more to say about it so just shut your gob and move on 

I've just lost the little respect I had for you. If THIS is how you treat someone calling out something bad you're doing, I would hate to see what your son would grow up to be like.

[GemWolf]

Ritalin is chemically addictive, that is something that cannot be changed because of how it affects your dopamine.

You can still willpower through addiction pretty easily with good support, though. Methylphenidate addiction isn't as intense as amphetamine addiction.

 

Also, there is no difference between recreational drugs and those used and monitored by doctors. The only difference is when it's "recreational" you decide your own dosage instead of a doctor. Powder cocaine is still used in the medical field as a painkiller, LSD is still being used in tests, and Adderall is just straight up Speed.

dunno about Adderall, but I know for a fact that Ritalin is not straight up speed because I queried it many times with a number of medical practitioners. 

Bottom line is, I made this thread because I was so relieved to have a diagnosis for what we have all gone through, then little no-it-all snots come along and tell me what I'm doing is wrong and I'm a bad parent I'm fucking up my sons life I'm doing it because I don't want to deal with parenthood etc etc I mean c'mon 

[Lucyfish]

dunno about Adderall, but I know for a fact that Ritalin is not straight up speed because I queried it many times with a number of medical practitioners. 

Bottom line is, I made this thread because I was so relieved to have a diagnosis for what we have all gone through, then little no-it-all snots come along and tell me what I'm doing is wrong and I'm a bad parent I'm fucking up my sons life I'm doing it because I don't want to deal with parenthood etc etc I mean c'mon 

Ritalin is Methylphenidate, which is an analogue for amphetamines. While it is not Speed, it is meant to act the same as Speed.

I'm not saying you are a bad parent but I am saying be very careful. ADHD medication can be very dangerous in ANY form, especially to a developing child.

[GemWolf]

I love how a logical breakdown and rebuttal is 'attacking.'

Not once have I even cursed directly at you. Yet here you go on the defensive, cursing back.

The guaranteed sign of getting caught being utterly wrong.

no I'm not caught being wrong, I'm just sick of all the crap people are putting on me for having my son diagnose and treated for ADHD. Ok so I was wrong about the addiction thing so what who cares I was wrong about that. Just - honestly enough is enough 

Edited November 12, 2015 by GemWolf

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

no I'm not caught be wrong, I'm just sick of all the crap people are putting on me for having my win diagnose and treated for ADHD. Ok so I was wrong about the addiction thing so what who cares I was wrong about that. Just - honestly enough is enough 

I didn't know it was possible to be this stupid