Saxon Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 11 hours ago, Kinare said: Wishing recovery for the victim is a given, I feel, so that's why it's less focused on than punishing the rapist. (Maybe I'm wrong, but I doubt anyone here doesn't want the victim to recover.) People who prey on innocent children (or anyone) like that are absolute scum that deserve nothing better than to taste their own medicine. It is a bit twisted, but just throwing them in prison isn't going to teach them how it felt to be victimized like that and they should have to feel that way at least once so they truly understand what they put their victim through. Maybe then they would sympathize and not repeat the offense once they unfortunately are set free. Do you think allowing other prisoners to get away with sexual exploitation is acceptable, or that it will make those predators less likely to hurt innocent people upon their release? If you read the descriptions of sexual abuse in prison, you would have to be inhuman to wish that upon someone. Think someone pulling stitches out of a perforated intestine for their sexual pleasure. This definitely falls under the 'cruel and unusual punishment' remit. I'm not very surprised that people have these attitudes though; I realised they were widespread after an American man studying for a friggin' law degree told me he hoped that inmates would be raped and catch HIV in prison, even if that meant prisoners would pass on the HIV virus to innocent members of the public, who would then pass it on to even more innocent people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinare Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 1 hour ago, Saxon said: Do you think allowing other prisoners to get away with sexual exploitation is acceptable, or that it will make those predators less likely to hurt innocent people upon their release? If you read the descriptions of sexual abuse in prison, you would have to be inhuman to wish that upon someone. Think someone pulling stitches out of a perforated intestine for their sexual pleasure. This definitely falls under the 'cruel and unusual punishment' remit. I'm not very surprised that people have these attitudes though; I realised they were widespread after an American man studying for a friggin' law degree told me he hoped that inmates would be raped and catch HIV in prison, even if that meant prisoners would pass on the HIV virus to innocent members of the public, who would then pass it on to even more innocent people. Not so much to that extreme, no, and no I don't think it's right for others to get way with rape, but whether I think so or not it won't change the fact that it happens and if the target is someone who has raped children, then I'd rather that than it be someone who didn't do something quite as disgusting. The people who rape others while in prison should be punished too, I'm just not sad when they rape a sexual offender. If I had it my way, no one would be raped ever for any reason, but since that isn't the case I can only hope that the targets are these individuals instead of others. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxon Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 3 hours ago, Kinare said: Not so much to that extreme, no, and no I don't think it's right for others to get way with rape, but whether I think so or not it won't change the fact that it happens and if the target is someone who has raped children, then I'd rather that than it be someone who didn't do something quite as disgusting. The people who rape others while in prison should be punished too, I'm just not sad when they rape a sexual offender. If I had it my way, no one would be raped ever for any reason, but since that isn't the case I can only hope that the targets are these individuals instead of others. Yes it will. Prison rape occurs because of public apathy. Something could actually be done about it, so that sexual abusers don't get a chance to continue offending. Those predators who are committing rape in prisons may well have been child abusers themselves. I think it's regrettable that, whenever discussions about horrible criminals pop up, there is such widespread support for medieval style judiciary. Users who actually want that sort of thing should consider relocating to Afghanistan, or advocating Shariah law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 If the prison staff can't do their job properly, that's none of my business , it's out of my reach. And even then,you can plead all you like, but I'd expect you to at least understand that a rape victim might not want to fight for the rights of the very people who abused them to begin with. It's unfair to expect them to, or even blame them for not wanting to. If you feel so strongly about it, I'm counting on you to stand up for their rights then, because I'll never be able to bring myself to do so. So why don't you do your part? I assume you have nothing holding you back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxon Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 5 minutes ago, Luka said: If the prison staff can't do their job properly, that's none of my business , it's out of my reach. And even then,you can plead all you like, but I'd expect you to at least understand that a rape victim might not want to fight for the rights of the very people who abused them to begin with. It's unfair to expect them to, or even blame them for not wanting to. If you feel so strongly about it, I'm counting on you to stand up for their rights then, because I'll never be able to bring myself to do so. So why don't you do your part? I assume you have nothing holding you back. Gemwolf and I live in different nations; the UK and Australia, where the rate of imprisonment is 0.13 and 0.17% respectively. Widespread tolerance of sexual abuse in prisons isn't really an issue in the UK or Australia. The UK's hot-topic about prisons is that prisoners are denied the right to vote, and sending transexual male to female prisoners to all-male prisons, which has wide-spread public condemnation. Compare the UK, where it's estimated 1-5% of prisoners might be the victim of sexual abuse: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29180234 to the USA, where 7% admit being raped and 21% admit being sexually abused: http://www.spr.org/pdf/struckman.pdf [unfortunately I can't read this PDF myself, because the UK has an automatic internet filter, which censors 'sexual' material'] I suspect that the comments encouraging rape and sexual abuse in prisons come from users who are, mostly, American, where the rate of imprisonment is 0.7% of the population. That's the highest in the world. Americans seem to be happy to have a prison system that turns a blind eye to sexual abuse. So those widespread views need to be challenged. The USA is also, somehow, the only country in the world in which 13 year olds can legally be sentenced to life in prison without parole. O_o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinare Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Yeah I dunno, I'm just not keen on fighting for the rights of scum. That's about all it comes down to in the end, for me at least. Too focused on R6S to go more in depth than that, especially since it boils down to that in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxon Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 2 minutes ago, Kinare said: Yeah I dunno, I'm just not keen on fighting for the rights of scum. That's about all it comes down to in the end, for me at least. Too focused on R6S to go more in depth than that, especially since it boils down to that in the end. If you don't treat human rights as inalienable, I don't think you support them at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 I'd be lying if I said I don't have trouble even thinking of serial rapists or murderers as humans at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toboe Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 27 minutes ago, Saxon said: Compare the UK, where it's estimated 1-5% of prisoners might be the victim of sexual abuse: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29180234 to the USA, where 7% admit being raped and 21% admit being sexually abused: http://www.spr.org/pdf/struckman.pdf [unfortunately I can't read this PDF myself, because the UK has an automatic internet filter, which censors 'sexual' material'] The PDF you can't read gives me a " Sorry we can't find that page! Either something went wrong or the page doesn't exist anymore." 22 minutes ago, Kinare said: Yeah I dunno, I'm just not keen on fighting for the rights of scum. That's about all it comes down to in the end, for me at least. Too focused on R6S to go more in depth than that, especially since it boils down to that in the end. Would you say that it is wrong but you aren't willing to fight about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted December 31, 2015 Share Posted December 31, 2015 Indeed, it's wrong, but I would never fight for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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