What do you think could possibly bring furries into the mainstream?

[Troj]

Well, so, if a major city like Pittsburgh can come to love the furries, other people can, too--and, you certainly don't have to join the fandom in order to appreciate or respect the people in it.

I'd be perfectly content if the fandom could just enjoy more respect and appreciation.

[Saxon]

Many furries who want outsiders to approve of them want to sanitise or silence everybody else so that outsiders won't consider them guilty by association. 

Just look at this thread; one such person has already compared furries who like yiff to child molesters, and expressed a desire to 'force it underground'. 

If you want outsiders to respect us, why do so many of you have to tell blatant and transparent lies about the rest of the community, or distance yourself from the rest of us by likening us to horrible criminals? 

 

Instead of us contorting our community, to make it more palatable to the public's perceptions and prejudices, it is the public perception that should change to accommodate us as we are, because we aren't actually that bad and don't warrant castigation. ._. 

Edited January 21, 2016 by Saxon

[Calemeyr]

Don't think furries will ever be mainstream as long as the people who are popular in the fandom continue to be weird creepers. Basically everyone who shows up as a topic in a vivisector thread. If the public found out about the drama you see there, whatever mainstream appeal the fandom did have would go back to zero.

The issue is there really are two fandoms. One is an anthro fandom, and the other is a fetish nightclub. People say "oh every fandom is sexual". True, but do you see people at anime cons wearing (actual) bondage gear or posting untagged twitter photos of their bad dragonball collection? I mean yeah, the porn is messed up, but let's face it, nerds are messed up. But you can at least pretend other fandoms are "clean". With furry, it's way too visible. As long as these things remain out in the open, the fandom will never be mainstream, no matter how hard Uncle Kage tries.

@Saxon I want to enjoy a fandom without having to be associated with the kind of people who have an inkbunny account. Which is why I hide it.

Edited January 21, 2016 by Calemeyr

[Half-Note]

Furries have been brought into the mainstream.

The mainstream media gave us a weird look and bursted out laughing.

[Zeke]

4 hours ago, Kinharia said:

Pittsburgh is the Mecca of Furfagdom

The businesses  and local government will bend over backwards to make sure AC attendees have a place to go and spend their money. The only exception's the ABC store in downtown Pittsburgh. Any bad press about the furries will piss off the City of Pittsburgh.

However, I think that some members of the fandom shouldn't take advantage of the goodwill presented to them by the city and act like little shits in public. 

[Troj]

3 hours ago, Saxon said:

Many furries who want outsiders to approve of them want to sanitise or silence everybody else so that outsiders won't consider them guilty by association. 

Just look at this thread; one such person has already compared furries who like yiff to child molesters, and expressed a desire to 'force it underground'. 

If you want outsiders to respect us, why do so many of you have to tell blatant and transparent lies about the rest of the community, or distance yourself from the rest of us by likening us to horrible criminals? 

Instead of us contorting our community, to make it more palatable to the public's perceptions and prejudices, it is the public perception that should change to accommodate us as we are, because we aren't actually that bad and don't warrant castigation. ._. 

Well, and it occurs to me that one often wins real respect and admiration by being honest.

Savvy outsiders can definitely smell when we insist that the fandom is totally lovely and clean, yessiree, and the people who are into yiff are a despised fringe minority.

But, too many edgelords, burned furs, and cynical people think that they're being "honest" when they're just being snarky, melodramatic, or self-flagellating. "Oh yes the community is disgusting and everyone is autistic and creepy and I hate myself most of all LOL LOL LOL" is just as fundamentally dishonest as "The community is totally family-friendly and drama-free."

In the end, it takes two to tango. As a community, I think we do need to rein in and roundly condemn the dipshits who vandalize hot tubs, destroy hotel rooms, and wander around hotels in diapers and bondage gear. But, as a community, we truly aren't that bad, and we don't warrant castigation, and we shouldn't have to apologize for simply being "weird" in ways that don't actually harm or inconvenience other people.

In the Age of Google and the Age of Social Justice and Political Correctness, there's no excuse anymore for trotting out the same decade-old Vanity Fair article and CSI episode because--let's face it--you were too bigoted and lazy to care about accurately representing a group you might personally see as small, weird, and irrelevant.

 

 

[Kinharia]

40 minutes ago, Zeke said:

The businesses  and local government will bend over backwards to make sure AC attendees have a place to go and spend their money. The only exception's the ABC store in downtown Pittsburgh. Any bad press about the furries will piss off the City of Pittsburgh.

However, I think that some members of the fandom shouldn't take advantage of the goodwill presented to them by the city and act like little shits in public. 

Personally I'd never take anything for granted and would act on my best behaviour, these people offer the fandom a city to feel safe in once a year so the least we can do is show kindness in return.

[Reska]

So, my brother founded a con and I've grown up in the fandom. Most of these things happened within hours of me being in the same vicinity of these people.

1. Furry  started talking to me about hermaphrodite porn in a busy hallway full of college students.

2.Furry started to tell me and about 6 other people they juts met a "funny story" involving their mistress, piss and copious amounts of public humiliation.

3. Hearing way too many animal-related sex noises. Like, foxes, birds... loudly.

I think it would appeal to a lot more people if a lot of furries didn't go straight into the conversations about sex and their sex lives and fetishes. Some people don't wanna fuck a dog person and the fandom would appeal more to people if they didn't feel like they were gonna be surrounded by peoples dynamic sex lives all day. Sex is awesome and having a sex life is healthy but oh my god- don't talk about your sex life with someone you just met, and if you do start talking about it, stop if they seem not into the conversation. i mean jeez.

[Calemeyr]

@Reska Again, it comes down to the fandom not being a clear group. Some uf us see it as a fandom, as weird as the people may be. Others see it like an S&M club, and are for some reason "out and proud", as if Furry was a sexual identity.

[PastryOfApathy]

7 hours ago, Troj said:

Well, so, if a major city like Pittsburgh can come to love the furries, other people can, too--and, you certainly don't have to join the fandom in order to appreciate or respect the people in it.

I'd be perfectly content if the fandom could just enjoy more respect and appreciation.

Let's not kid ourselves here, they love their money. Otherwise they're just as interchangeable as any other group.

3 hours ago, Zeke said:

The businesses  and local government will bend over backwards to make sure AC attendees have a place to go and spend their money. The only exception's the ABC store in downtown Pittsburgh. Any bad press about the furries will piss off the City of Pittsburgh.

However, I think that some members of the fandom shouldn't take advantage of the goodwill presented to them by the city and act like little shits in public. 

Now I'm curious.

[Zeke]

8 minutes ago, PastryOfApathy said:

 

Now I'm curious.

They close early.

[PastryOfApathy]

Just now, Zeke said:

They close early.

Like before the con opens? Did something happen? I need that tasty drama inside me hnnnnggg...

[Zeke]

2 minutes ago, PastryOfApathy said:

Like before the con opens? Did something happen? I need that tasty drama inside me hnnnnggg...

Not before the cons open, but before it's time to get shit-faced (which is around 6 or so...). At that time, seeing people with camel packs filled with rum isn't uncommon, or people who smell of a brewery.

[Saxon]

58 minutes ago, Calemeyr said:

@Reska Again, it comes down to the fandom not being a clear group. Some uf us see it as a fandom, as weird as the people may be. Others see it like an S&M club, and are for some reason "out and proud", as if Furry was a sexual identity.

Maybe for them it is a sexual identity, but I suspect it's more like cross dressing; not necessarily sexual, but clearly associated with sex. 

[diretractor]

6 hours ago, Saxon said:

Many furries who want outsiders to approve of them want to sanitise or silence everybody else so that outsiders won't consider them guilty by association.

Probably because they think that is the only way, but luckily that is not the case. Again, I don't think you need to try and directly change people's behavior. I think you just need to take the things people will enjoy and concentrate it into one place. Knowing that, what are you thoughts about creating a separate community site that is more open and accepting of outsiders?

6 hours ago, Saxon said:

Instead of us contorting our community, to make it more palatable to the public's perceptions and prejudices, it is the public perception that should change to accommodate us as we are.

I don't think people should expect to gain respect by not changing the behavior that is robbing them of it. If you want to be respected you have to earn it, not demand it.

[Saxon]

Just now, diretractor said:

I don't think people should expect to gain respect by not changing the behavior that is robbing them of it. If you want to be respected you have to earn it, not demand it.

Oh I quite agree; I think gays should have realised that they would have had a much easier road to general acceptance if they had just stopped having gay sex. It was unfair of them to demand respect, while practicing behaviours they knew to be the cause of their rejection. 

' You get me?

 

[diretractor]

5 hours ago, Saxon said:

Oh I quite agree; I think gays should have realised that they would have had a much easier road to general acceptance if they had just stopped having gay sex. It was unfair of them to demand respect, while practicing behaviours they knew to be the cause of their rejection. 

' You get me?

Right, and the gay community has numerous and very large organizations who's sole purpose it is to spread a positive image of gender and sexual minorities. They have events that people who are not gay but are interested in gay rights, would feel comfortable attending, supporting, and associated with. I can go to It Gets Better, the Human Rights Campaign, or a number of other LGBT oriented websites and see -- as some would describe as -- a sanitized portrayal of the gay community. Is marriage equality a thing now because every gay-oriented website hosts homoerotic imagery? Fuck no. It's because the gay community spent many many years, using very smart and sometimes subtle social marketing campaigns, even debating what words they should be knows as, to convince people that being gay is okay, that they are just like everybody else (i.e. well-adjusted human beings), and provided friendly places, events, and websites for non-gays to come into the fold without having to deal with any of the fetishes that the gay community is known for.

Again the point I'm trying to communicate is that you don't have to try to directly change behavior, just provide a front-facing gateway that has more overlap with the general population. LGBT communities didn't tell people to stop having gay sex. They worked their asses off to portray a certain image, and very often it was through the good deeds of people who are LGBT to gain acceptance and respect. People didn't change their minds because the gay community did nothing. They went out and fucking earned it.

[Saxon]

If you feel that strongly about it you can make such a site; nobody's going to stop you. 

[Troj]

So, the underlying psychological question is why so many furries spend an inordinate amount of time bitching about how no one likes or respects furries, but no one (to my knowledge) has tried to do the sorts of things that Dire has suggested. (Though, I can think of a number of charitable fursuiting groups.)

Is it because of a lack of motivation, a lack of knowledge of how to proceed, a haunting fear of failure, or because being unpopular and despised actually carries some subtle perks, or any or all of the above?

Edited January 22, 2016 by Troj

[diretractor]

7 hours ago, Troj said:

So, the underlying psychological question is why so many furries spend an inordinate amount of time bitching about how no one likes or respects furries, but no one (to my knowledge) has tried to do the sorts of things that Dire has suggested. (Though, I can think of a number of charitable fursuiting groups.)

Is it because of a lack of motivation, a lack of knowledge of how to proceed, a haunting fear of failure, or because being unpopular and despised actually carries some subtle perks, or any or all of the above?

I'm not sure if it's a lack of motivation. Everyone wants/needs to feel wanted, have friends, be respected, and as an added bonus be able to have those things while still being able to love the things that you love without being unfairly judged. There's large amounts of motivation there. However, if people had a choice between being accepted at work, at home, and with friends, or have them know that they are also really, REALLY into cartoon animals, maybe even go as far as dress up as one, and be fairly or unfairly grouped in with the worst of what the furry fandom is known for, then I don't think they would feel as though their association with the furry fandom would be worth it.

Complete side note: I know the furry fandom is largely an online thing, and I always hear about people afraid to meet furries in real life. Relationships with people in meatspace are much more meaningful that those made online, and fandoms are about people, so any fandom that is primarily online will not be able to hold a candle to fandoms that have a better and more comfortable time meeting in meatspace. I'm not saying you can't make meaningful relationships online, but the most meaningful ones are always those that can be made in person. The furry fandom just can't fill the gap in people's lives that other fandoms can because of how much easier and more comfortable it is to meet.

Lack of knowledge? I have no idea. It seems that way, but I don't know what goes on behind furry closed doors. Just because I haven't read it doesn't mean furries haven't come up with it. It doesn't seem like it's as common knowledge as it is in some of the other groups I've been a part of, but someone who is more knowledgeable about the furry fandom should chime in.

Failure. I would say yes. I can think of two movements and three sites that tried to do something similar and the fandom wouldn't have it. Granted some of the reasons are due to really bad strategies, while others is just too little support from the furry artists, and often outright backlash. That last part is what bothers me the most on behalf of the furry fandom, and I think is the problem that is contributing the most.

Unpopular and being despised has perks? Aside from the victim complex, I kind of doubt it. Individually, there's no perks aside from people who think that being a victim is how to become the hero in their own life story. Collectively however, the only thing I can think of is the competition that existing furry artists would receive if the rest of the art community joins in and starts taking attention, fans, and sales away from them. Otherwise there's no reason to want the fandom to be despised as a whole.

[Troj]

Just to be clear, I was referring to the general act of doing PR, and committing yourself to doing things to help the fandom look good, and avoiding stuff that will make it took bad. Specifically, I was piggybacking on your idea to create more "clean" furry websites .

I think a lot of people don't know how to do that kind of PR, aren't motivated to go out of their way to do it, and/or are worried about attempting it and failing.

I'd say you're absolutely right that many people are leery about putting too much skin in the game in order to advocate for the fandom, especially if it'll put them in the crosshairs. The folks who aren't at all worried about losing face over "coming out" about their talking animal interest are often (but not always!) the sorts of people the rest of us don't want to become the "face of the fandom."

I'd tend to agree that meatspace is where strong relationships are usually forged. It can be harder to forge those relationships online.

Being unpopular and despised can definitely carry hidden benefits. For one thing, you don't have to try very hard to win people's love or acceptance, because you "know" you're doomed to fail. For another, your suffering and malaise "make sense," in that there's a story behind or explanation for them. Additionally, for people who've consistently been on the outside looking in, actually feeling accepted or included can feel very alien, weird, unsettling, and even, scary.  Similarly, the things one has to do to become accepted may feel uncomfortable, inauthentic, inconvenient, or even, potentially flat-out unhealthy and harmful.

I'd even argue that being an outsider without necessarily being hated or despised can be extremely powerful, because it can grant you a kind of objectivity and wisdom that you don't get from being an insider.

Edited January 22, 2016 by Troj

[jcstinks]

10 hours ago, Troj said:

So, the underlying psychological question is why so many furries spend an inordinate amount of time bitching about how no one likes or respects furries, but no one (to my knowledge) has tried to do the sorts of things that Dire has suggested. (Though, I can think of a number of charitable fursuiting groups.)

It could be the crippling anxiety, depression, and inability to interface with normies.

[Calemeyr]

So I just experienced this a day or two ago: I was asking where the furries are in So Cal seeing as there are none in LA, and some guy in a rabbit fursuit tells me to ask Tora. Um...Yeah. Fuck no.

THIS is why the fandom will never be mainstream. We open our hugbox to registered sex offenders and bestialists. Hell, we even idolize suspected rapists. It's like the fandom is a stopping ground for the people Chris Hansen will ask to take a seat later.

What is with this fandom and sexual crimes? It makes it seem like the fandom is a child pornography, bestiality, and molestation ring. Somebody send in the FBI.

[diretractor]

47 minutes ago, Calemeyr said:

we even idolize suspected rapists

The person I think you are talking about, my understanding is that happened after they became famous in the furry fandom. They were idolized first and then suspected rapist later, making it very hard for their fans to decided to either stop supporting that person or to side with them. That's normal human behavior. If it happened the other way around I don't think they would be as idolized.

I'll be perfectly honest, and this is probably because of how much closer I am with other communities, so I hear a lot the shit that goes on, but I can tell you from what I have observed that I do not think the furry fandom has more sex offenders that the animation industry, and especially the entertainment industry does in general, in fact I think the entertainment industry has more. Trust me on this. I just think that the furry fandom talks about it more and for much longer because, honestly, there's not a whole lot of other interesting things going on. I'm sure there's a lot of more sexual deviancy going on in the furry community, but that does not equate to sexual crime even though to outsiders (and even insiders) it may seem like that. I'll agree, the furry fandom sure could use some leadership with cleaner records.

Edited January 23, 2016 by diretractor

[Calemeyr]

@Saxon you know what I mean. Let's not try to psychoanalyze sentense structure here. They idolize them because they're famous and don't care if their idol does bad things. As long as thry get their porn they're happy. It's Zaush. And moreover, nothing happened, so we don't know if he raped a woman or not because he's buddy-buddy with dragoneer and everything was hushed up. Due to the nature of fanboys, I'd still imagine people to support him even if him flat-out admitted it.

Still, let's not try to use this as an excuse to ignore actual sex offenders (who were caught soliciting minors for sex) continuing to hold a somewhat respected place in the fandom. I don't want to hang with furries around where I live if they are all right with letting Tora go to playgrounds or having access to the personal informarion of minors (the latter actually happened...but at Anthrocon. Kage refuses to ban him)

 

Edited January 23, 2016 by Calemeyr

[PastryOfApathy]

On 1/22/2016 at 7:46 AM, Troj said:

So, the underlying psychological question is why so many furries spend an inordinate amount of time bitching about how no one likes or respects furries, but no one (to my knowledge) has tried to do the sorts of things that Dire has suggested. (Though, I can think of a number of charitable fursuiting groups.)

Is it because of a lack of motivation, a lack of knowledge of how to proceed, a haunting fear of failure, or because being unpopular and despised actually carries some subtle perks, or any or all of the above?

Most people don't want to put themselves out in the open like that, permanently tying them to something like this for a variety of legitimate reasons. Meaning the only ones left willing to do it are those who quite frankly shouldn't.

[Saxon]

12 minutes ago, Calemeyr said:

@Saxon you know what I mean. They idolize them because they're famous and don't care if their idol does bad things. As long as thry get their porn they're happy. It's Zaush. And moreover, nothing happened, so we don't know if he raped a woman or not because he's buddy-buddy with dragoneer and everything was hushed up. Due to the nature of fanboys, I'd still imagine people to support him even if him flat-out admitted it.

 

Unless somebody has been convicted I'm not going to set about spreading their name around in an attempt at character assassination; in what world is that fair?

Your entire argument reduces to the supposition that 'furries wouldn't care if one of their celebrities turned out to be a nasty person, therefore they are nasty people as well', which is itself a non sequitur. 

Most people don't want to put themselves out in the open like that, permanently tying them to something like this for a variety of legitimate reasons. Meaning the only ones left willing to do it are those who quite frankly shouldn't.

I think this is perhaps a cynical perspective. Many of the furries here, even those who complain that there aren't places devoted to only asexual furry art, have fur-affinity galleries with sexual furry art hosted on them. Maybe this widespread sexual interest is the actual reason most furry sites host at least some sexual art. 

 

Edited January 23, 2016 by Saxon

[Calemeyr]

10 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Unless somebody has been convicted I'm not going to set about spreading their name around in an attempt at character assassination; in what world is that fair?

Your entire argument reduces to the supposition that 'furries wouldn't care if one of their celebrities turned out to be a nasty person, therefore they are nasty people as well', which is itself a non sequitur. 

 

 

I guess I didn't word my sentences very well. Where did I say that makes furries nasty? Stop putting words in my mouth. I said that the tendency to be too accepting of weird behavior dooms the fandom to niche status. 

I at times exaggerate things to make a point. If you can't see that, then I guess I need to do a better job writing. The "hugbox" exists in many fandoms, but since we don't have any mainstream media to bring "normies" in, we just have pure fandom, with all it's ups and downs to see. Which includes blind devotion to popufurs. But that doesn't mean the whole fandom is rotten. It just means that some people are, well, fanboys.

I mean, you have Nintendo fanboys defending microtransactions in Pokemon Shuffle. In fact, this fanaticism and cognitive dissonance extends far beyond fandom. When you idolize someone, you can forgive them of their misdeeds. Though har far that will go depends on your integrity as a person. The issue is that since furry is small, it makes it all the more easy to demonize the fandom.

Still, it is annoying to see this behavior, anywhere. So yeah, maybe that DOES make some furries rotten. NOT ALL. But the ones who just don't care (typically those who comment on FA update journals saying how they don't care FA users are getting shafted because it's "drama") yeah, they're assholes. And we can choose to not associate with them. Which is why I won't associate with the people who let a guy in their group who solicited minors for sex on FA even after serving jailtime. I'll give dragoneer props here. He banned the guy.

Let's stop arguing. Please. Let's not turn this into an flamewar. You don't have to take things so literally.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Calemeyr

[Calemeyr]

29 minutes ago, Saxon said:

You clearly implied you thought the fandom was full of undesirable nasty people, by making frequent references to shows about sexual abuse, the FBI and so forth. These were exaggerations, but you were making those exaggerations in order to express that 'this is the sort of nasty they are'. 

Judging someone because of rumours spread about them on the friggin' internet makes you a bad person, not a superior one.  

A criminal conviction is essential before you start describing somebody as a sex criminal. Just imagine how horrible it would be if someone began spreading a rumour, entirely untrue, that you were a sex criminal, and everybody believed it 'just cuz'. How would you feel? No good, huh? Well don't do it to other people then, genius. O_o 

People in England have actually been murdered because of rumours spread about them being sex criminals, which turned out to be false all along*...and this is the sort of behaviour you are championing? 

*http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-35384798

 

@Saxon I apologize then if it came off to you that way, but I know what I meant. You don't get to decide what I mean by what I say, only how you interpret it. Which I agree does mean I should word my posts better. Yes rumors are bad. That's why I was ranting mostly about Tora. He had an actual conviction. He went to jail. He got out and tried to get to minors again. He was banned from FA, but he still is active in the furry community and even worked registration at Anthrocon. And he's active in So Cal. Does that make all furries bad people? No! It just means we need to watch things out more.

Anyway, let's stop arguing. For the love of god please. I don't want to talk about this anymore.

Let's not get carried away on, like, what the meaning of the word "rumor" is (that was exaggeration). What can we as a community do to improve our image? For one, yes, be less welcoming of everyone that comes in. That means speak up if you see stuff like vandalism or inappropriate behavior at cons. It's not "drama", it could help prevent things like the RF fiasco in the future. I know a lot of furries just want to leave things alone and not get involved, because, yes, it can be very messy. But I don't think the events of RF were sudden. It probably was building up for years. I'm not blaming the bystanders for what happened, that was the douchebags who flooded the offices. But, well, I don't know. Maybe there is the smallest chance it could have been avoided. And let's face it (I saw this on twitter), blaming "anti-fur trolls" for this behavior is not going to help.

But honestly, we can only go so far. Perhaps when you have people like Kage pretend the fandom is like disneyland, they're being dishonest. The fandom is quite sexual, but so is the anime fandom. In fact, the sexual nature of the anime fandom creeps me out FAR more than the stuff in the furry fandom. It might just be that I am seriously creeped out by a lot of the people in my anime club, but damn, anime really sets of my Chris Hansen meter nowadays. NGNL episode 6 is a prime example.

In the end, I think though, that we furries did it to ourselves. We created our own bad image by being a little too "proud" of the fox dong. I mean, you saw how much bronies were hated on the internet? We were like that as a fandom while back. People running across porn of their childhood cartoons doesn't help, either.

Lastly, it might just come down to bigotry. The fandom does have a higher than normal percentage of LGBT individuals, and that may have been a reason for the early fandom to be shunned by the Sci-Fi community.

Whatever the reason, the fandom has always been niche, and it will stay that way for a long time. No matter what Zootopia or things like it do.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Calemeyr

[Troj]

To be fair, even non-furries have trouble coming to terms with someone they like being a pedophile, rapist, child abuser, or otherwise terrible person.

This is a large part of why victim-blaming is so common.

Tora comes across as a nice guy who does his job reasonably well, and therein lies the rub. If he were an asshole and/or a total fuck-up, it'd be easier to just write him off.

The science fiction community is full of total pervs, jerks, and creepers who are regularly given a pass because they're good at what they do.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Troj

[Calemeyr]

24 minutes ago, Troj said:

To be fair, even non-furries have trouble coming to terms with someone they like being a pedophile, rapist, child abuser, or otherwise terrible person.

This is a large part of why victim-blaming is so common.

Tora comes across as a nice guy who does his job reasonably well, and therein lies the rub. If he were an asshole and/or a total fuck-up, it'd be easier to just write him off.

The science fiction community is full of total pervs, jerks, and creepers who are regularly given a pass because they're good at what they do.

I saw an old article somewhere about linking Star Trek to pedophiles, for instance. Something about fantasy and future "egalitarian morals".

Edited January 23, 2016 by Calemeyr

[PastryOfApathy]

3 hours ago, Saxon said:

I think this is perhaps a cynical perspective. Many of the furries here, even those who complain that there aren't places devoted to only asexual furry art, have fur-affinity galleries with sexual furry art hosted on them. Maybe this widespread sexual interest is the actual reason most furry sites host at least some sexual art.

It's just become such an integral part of the community that it's impossible to separate. Even if you were to ban porn or something, it's not gonna stop the creepy fetish-types from skirting the line. Just look at the shit on DeviantArt.

[Calemeyr]

I will say, though, that there are a LOT of creepers in the fandom in positions of power. Furaffinity, Bad Dragon, etc? Really Furaffinity says it all, and really, it's holding the entire fandom back. The site is the google of furry at sites and is pretty much the online face of the fandom. That's pretty depressing when you think about it.

Edited January 24, 2016 by Calemeyr

[DumCumpster]

[Calemeyr]

The fandom will never be mainstream, and this Tony the Tiger event is proof. I realy think a lot of furries are in the "fuck the normies" mindset. That's not how you become successful in life, yo.

So many furries are like this. Does it have do with sexuality? Like maybe they just came out or something and had experienced bigotry in the past? 

Edited January 27, 2016 by Calemeyr

[Troj]

Well, and you can be committed to doing your own thing and ignoring the haters without being obnoxious or wildly annoying.

Sexually harassing the Pizza Hut Twitter feed for lulz qualifies as "obnoxious and wildly annoying."

[GreenReaper]

Quote

Well, and you can be committed to doing your own thing and ignoring the haters without being obnoxious or wildly annoying.

Sure, but where's the fun in that? :-)

Furry fandom is unlikely to ever be truly mainstream because, as a fandom, it provides the things which big corporations don't want to touch. Like, you know, porn. It's a big part of why lots of people are in the fandom, though for most it's not the only reason. What you may see is that as furry fandom gets bigger, those corporations decide to overcome their aversion in order to pick up some cash. Hence, Zootopia. (Not that Disney's avoided animal characters before…)

I think it'd be cool to have a clean furry art development site running on, say, Inkbunny's codebase. Something like ArtSpots used to be, or Yerf. But as they found, it would not be as popular within the fandom because most furries like porn, some of the time, and most artists aren't motivated enough to split their work onto more than a couple of sites - so the team running it would need to get their motivation from something other than pageviews and submission counts.

You can blame my fellow WikiFur curator EarthFurst and myself for the front page of WikiFur. As I recall, it was put in honour of World AIDS Day - as well as the fact that it was an interesting article. In any case, WikiFur, like Wikipedia, is not censored for the protection of minors; nor for those who wish furry had less porn in it. The truth is it has a lot, because people express their inner lives and desires through their fursonas.

The people who are most into the fandom (and who run websites, conventions, etc.) tend to be supportive of that. So don't count on it changing anytime soon.

Edited January 28, 2016 by GreenReaper

[LazerMaster5]

Maybe is furries would stop being a bunch of perverted creeps, then maybe society would see us as more than a bunch is sexual deviants.

[Snagged]

29 minutes ago, LazerMaster5 said:

Maybe is furries would stop being a bunch of perverted creeps, then maybe society would see us as more than a bunch is sexual deviants.

They only see the extreme end of it. We have a bad natural habit of remembering bad  things over good things

[Ratmomma]

On 1/19/2016 at 11:28 AM, Caledonian said:

Btw be carefull what you wish for. The steampunk fandom has been discovered by the hipsters and they got it into the mainstream. Now we discuss:

has steampunk become too mainstream

http://brassgoggles.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,10115.0.html

Steampunk was great...until the masses 'discovered' it. Dieselpunk and Cyberpunk, however, remain relatively niche, especially with Dieselpunk (people don't know the difference from Steampunk so they just lump it into one, similar to the Dubstep shit).

[Caledonian]

7 minutes ago, Ratmomma said:

Steampunk was great...until the masses 'discovered' it. Dieselpunk and Cyberpunk, however, remain relatively niche, especially with Dieselpunk (people don't know the difference from Steampunk so they just lump it into one, similar to the Dubstep shit).

As a steampunk I have to say we have gotten overruled by "slap a cog on it" and "glue a gear on it" but deep at the core we are still there, building our subculture with blowtorches and creativity, Sewing our leather, brushing our hats and lacing our corsets. The core has never changed.

dieselpunk is not my thing but heeey, teslapunk is cool!

[Ratmomma]

Additionally, why would anyone want furries to be mainstream? A massive shit fit was thrown on FA when the IMVU buyout was brought to the attention of the community (a very delayed notice) because a large group of people felt that the company was intruding on furries and our niche corner, as though the company was going to force the fandom into the mainstream by capitalizing on the artists' market. There are no big corporations in the fandom, only small to medium sized businesses which cater to the fandom. The fear was that IMVU would directly or indirectly encourage large companies to come into the fandom, and produce work at lower prices that artists cannot compete with.

The other fear was that IMVU would seize the rights of all uploaded and future uploaded content.

In regards to my first paragraph and to the subject of this thread: why in the fuck would you want to make the fandom mainstream? That allows for everything I stated in the first paragraph to happen, because there are companies out there that will cater to the porn aspect. Sex sells, and they don't care what they're shitting out as long as it's not illegal. As was said earlier regarding Steampunk being mainstream, look at the state of it now. It's all mass produced bullshit that you can find in any dept store, especially at Halloween. It's over inflated, it's over used, and the only people you see flaunting it outside of a con (in which the wearers usually have put a lot into the outfit itself and took the time and money to create or commission their pieces) are try hard fuckwits like Steam Powered Giraffes. Do you really want the fandom turning into a circus act like that band?

13 minutes ago, Caledonian said:

As a steampunk I have to say we have gotten overruled by "slap a cog on it" and "glue a gear on it" but deep at the core we are still there, building our subculture with blowtorches and creativity, Sewing our leather, brushing our hats and lacing our corsets. The core has never changed.

dieselpunk is not my thing but heeey, teslapunk is cool!

That's the kind of shit I was trying to convey, in regards to "slap a cog on it" and BAM, Steampunk.

Mainstream furry shit would be "put a fleece fox tail on it!" INSTAFURRY! "yIFf YIFF YIFF I'M FURRY I'M SO QUIRKY"

[Caledonian]

This song has become a prime example of steampunks resisting the mainstream gluepunk, i think it fits.

 

 

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

Most furries seem to be sexually repressed, and so they use the fandom to express the things that they can't in real life. Seeing as that might be the case, I don't think we'll ever really become mainstream. I don't want us to be, anyways.

[Yarra]

I really don't think it could ever be.   In my opinion you are or you aren't despite the temporary transitory types in between.  I occasionally run into people in public I suspect of being furry but most, I am fairly confident of, aren't and never will be.  It's funny because I want to ask the person but how the hell to you walk up to a stranger and be like, "hey man, you'r a furry, right?  Shit, that could start a fucking fight!

   

[Snagged]

As much as I would like furries to get some recognition, I have to agree that is not what ought to be done given the negative connotation the word "furry" has. Yeah, there are creeps, weirdos and other fanatics with no real life. That's what people see mostly. And nobody wants to be seen like that

Hell, there might even be "purges" or discrimination if furries were to become mainstream with a tarnished title

[Troj]

I'm quite good at identifying geeks in public, and reasonably decent at identifying furries.

If they're wearing accessories or doing art, I'll compliment them on those things. I might also try to strike up a conversation and drop a few in-jokes and insider references to see if they take the bait.

True story: Once attended a small furmeet in huge open park during a major festival in a mid-sized city. Wandered back and forth for about 15 minutes (either because I'd neglected to read where people were meeting specifically, or because furries were furries and didn't think to name a spot) and then had a revelation. I walked to the far, secluded corner of the park near the bathrooms, walked around the back, saw 8 people huddling around a picnic table, and without missing a beat, said, "Oh, you're the furries."

Edited January 29, 2016 by Troj

[Ratmomma]

1 hour ago, Snagged Cub said:

As much as I would like furries to get some recognition, I have to agree that is not what ought to be done given the negative connotation the word "furry" has. Yeah, there are creeps, weirdos and other fanatics with no real life. That's what people see mostly. And nobody wants to be seen like that

Hell, there might even be "purges" or discrimination if furries were to become mainstream with a tarnished title

Gee, I can't think of ANY fandom like that..

mlpfim, steven universe, homestuck, anything with a following on tumblr..

1 hour ago, Troj said:

I walked to the far, secluded corner of the park near the bathrooms, walked around the back, saw 8 people sitting around a picnic table, and without missing a beat, said, "Oh, you're the furries."

Sounds about normal, HA

[Snagged]

12 minutes ago, Ratmomma said:

Gee, I can't think of ANY fandom like that..

Any fandom like what? If this is about some implications you did not understand correct...

[Ratmomma]

14 hours ago, Snagged Cub said:

Any fandom like what? If this is about some implications you did not understand correct...