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Tipping/Discounts


GamingGal
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16 hours ago, Azure said:

I was once fired at the end of my first day at a theme park job because when we closed down and i was leaving i jumped over one of those ropes you make people wait in line with. Fired. FOR JUMPING OVER A ROPE. America has ridiculous employment laws and loads of pricks to fill out the management positions. People who were picked on in HS are the worst kind of boss.

I've seen some stupid and ridiculous reasons in my time for why people get fired after the first day from a job but this tops the list >__<

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@GamingGal I have never suggested that you or the specific servers you work with should make $15/hr.  Your just attacking a straw man here.  So let me ask a question in that regard though.  What hourly wage would it take to make on average what you make right now?  I ask this because the entire position I have argued from is that servers should continue to make close to the exact same as they do now with tips, but instead of arbitrarily on the whim of the customer it should be an expected and consistent wage. 

You also keep bringing up that many servers believe that the quality of service they provide affects the tip.  You keep saying that based on your own experiences you know that it does.  You keep citing single articles which are not of the same quality as a scientific study as proof of this.  However the anecdotal accounts of yourself and the other servers along with articles written for various media outlets is not enough to disprove the large and robust review of the evidence I have already provided.  When it comes to determining facts such as this it is important that we detach ourselves from our personal viewpoints and biases and examine the evidence from an objective standpoint.  By denying the evidence based solely on your personal narrative you are engaging in the same practices of science denialism that are engaged in by such movements as anti-vaxers and climate change deniers.

Another point you keep arguing is that without tips servers will some how turn into magical lazy slobs that will have zero concern for there jobs.  You need to realize how disgustingly insulting that viewpoint is to every single person who works in direct customer service industries that do not receive tips.  I am paid an hourly wage, even less then what you argue would be a decrease in your pay, and I don't, in fact can not, accept any tips.  Despite this however I make it point to be as good at my job as possible.  I, and everyone else that works in my field, continue to provide excellent customer service not out of some expectation that the customer will reward us for helping, but out of the simple fact that it is our job.  Your constant assertion that servers will just spontaneously become terrible at their jobs if they aren't tipped is a direct and horrible insult to everyone else that continues to provide excellent customer service despite the fact that they are paid only an hourly wage.

In regards to discriminatory pay you openly admit that it is terrible and you don't have a solution for it, but instead of accepting a possible solution you reject it offhand based on the argument that you might make less money.

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@Derin Darkpaw For me to make the same I make now, the wage would have to be somewhere around $30/hr at the minimum. If the restaurant I work made that the base pay for servers and subsequently raised the pay of the host and BOH, the price of food would have to rise to insane levels.

I think it would be really interesting to see a poll that's done specifically of the serving community to see how they feel. Like you've said, it's easy to cherry-pick people or articles that will support a certain viewpoint.

I'm not saying other people in customer service oriented fields are lazy or anything. I've worked hourly jobs, one which was cashiering and one which was bathing dogs. I could not accept tips of course. I still did my job very well and focused on the tasks that were at hand to make sure everyone left happy. I'm only saying the serving quality might go down because people who enter into serving usually do so for the chance to a) make more money based off tips and b) be able to take home cash nightly. When you take those two things away, I do think a lot of really good servers would quit. Would they be irreplaceable? No, but it would hurt the serving industry for a bit.

I think you do make some good, valid points. The method might work for some restaurants, and that's good and well. If the whole hourly pay thing did do away with tipping, I think it should be done so restaurants have the choice to switch or not. The owners should talk to their staff to see how they feel and see how the clientele would feel about doing away with tips in favor of more expensive food.

I still don't like the idea of it. I understand it might be better for some and I do want them to make more cause I've been in that shitty position before of not making much, but I'm still leery about it. A lot. I still think it would open the door for laziness (not everyone is cut out for customer service the way servers have to handle it) and for people to have to settle with making less money in the long run in some instances. However, it might work in some places and if so go for it. I just think restaurants should have the option to opt out and continue on the normal path.

All this being said, discussing it like this has been rather entertaining for me, so thank you :3

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On 1/28/2016 at 1:12 AM, Rassah said:

I wish servers would just start walking off their jobs if they don't pay enough to live off of without the tips.

We need a worker's rights revolution in this country. Too many ppl like to take it in the ass from their employers. 

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On 1/31/2016 at 1:28 PM, Hakar-Kerarmor said:

This is one of those things I don't understand about 'Murica. It sounds like employees can be fired on a whim for anything.

Eh, it's a win one, lose the other kind of situation. Workers can get fired for anything, which sucks, BUT employers aren't afraid to hire anyone, even right off the street, since they know they can always fire them, which is great cause people without work experience or who simply need a job can still get one fairly easily. Conversely, in places where it's extremely difficult to fire people (France) unemployment is high and younger generations can't get jobs, cause employers are way too cautious with whom they hire.

I, of course, prefer allowing people the choice of whom they want to associate with. Having workers you don't like, but whom you can't fire, creates an extremely toxic work environment that's terrible for all involved.

4 hours ago, Butters said:

We need a worker's rights revolution in this country. Too many ppl like to take it in the ass from their employers. 

Might have better luck if those workers fought for the right for more people to be able to hire them. While it's easy to fire workers in US, it's still OMFGHARD to hire them, so too many stay unemployed, driving wages way down.

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23 minutes ago, Rassah said:

 BUT employers aren't afraid to hire anyone

not true. they are doing drug tests and background checks for minimum wage jobs, and then when you get hired they take the cost of it out of your check. an honest question what kind of jobs have you had besides being a bitcoin salesman and your current pr gig or whatever it is?

Edited by Azure
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40 minutes ago, Azure said:

not true. they are doing drug tests and background checks for minimum wage jobs, and then when you get hired they take the cost of it out of your check.

By far not all. Probably not even half. Actually, I've never even had to take a drug test. Maybe you just look suspicious.

40 minutes ago, Azure said:

an honest question what kind of jobs have you had besides being a bitcoin salesman and your current pr gig or whatever it is?

I can list them all:

  • Caretaker at a pet hotel (clean cages and tons of dog shit)
  • Jerry's Subs and Pizza (typical fast food job I worked after school)
  • Petsmart (fish and small animal sales, restocking, retail)
  • PC tech at a small company (putting together PC, installing OS's, fixing broken PCs)
  • Software developer at a biotech company
  • PC/Hardware diagnostics company (didn't do well with software dev)
  • IT manager at McDonald's (to date probably highest salaried job, adjusted for inflation)
  • Primerica (MLM personal finance company, selling financial plans, investments, mortgages)
  • Business manager for TozoniMAGLEV (trying to market my grandfather's invention to businesses, did not earn a salary obviously)
  • Water slide operator at Walt Disney World
  • Fast Food (burgers & fries) and cashier at Disney World resort (water park closed for 1.5 months for annual cleanup)
  • Temp at a medical lab certification company (paper pusher)
  • Accountant for Haribo (US branch)
  • Senior Financial Analyst at MD Department of Housing and Community Development
Current jobs:
 
  • Community Manager for Mycelium (more like brand management and business development)
  • Product Manager for Mycelium (I basically stepped up to be in charge and develop my product idea, which I hope will make our company tons of money. We'll see in a year I hope)
  • CFO of CoinOutlet bitcoin ATM company
  • Consulting partner for Bounti (was practically my idea, but a friend took the initiative to get it started and developed)
  • Driver for Uber and Lyft (just during free hours to help pay for my pilot's license)
  • Contractor and business consultant for Digital Express LLC
  • Venture Capitalist (I invest in and consult with a few businesses I like which jibe with my morals, like helping get rid of hunger, reduce homelessness, allow low income people to set up financial accounts, businesses that undermine corporate monopolies, and helping the grey market economy)
.... I think that's all my current jobs. I may be forgetting something. And on top of that I somehow have time to study martial arts (Iaido, which uses a katana), learning to fly, planning to start a beehive this spring, and still visit friends around the country (nice thing about not having a 9-to-5 is I can just pick up and go visit and cheer up a friend if he's having depression issues).
 
So... That's what I do.
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56 minutes ago, Azure said:

not true. they are doing drug tests and background checks for minimum wage jobs, and then when you get hired they take the cost of it out of your check.

I've had a lot of minimum wage jobs the past four years due to lots of moving around, and I've never had to deal with any type of drug test. Ever. The closest thing to a drug test I've seen done is the whole random drug testing if they suspect something.

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On 2/2/2016 at 1:33 PM, GamingGal said:

All this being said, discussing it like this has been rather entertaining for me, so thank you :3

I am very glad that you enjoyed our conversation as much as I have.  However I feel like we have both said as much as their is to say on the subject, at least to each other.

Thank you.  It was a lot of fun.

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  • 2 weeks later...

my question would be that in New Jersey for example, you are required to be paid $8.30 per hour or something like that... If a waiter/waitress worked eight hours making lets just say $2.30 an hour and didn't get any tips yet they still performed their job; wouldn't they be making under minimum wage and the company be forced to reimburse them they money they deserve? (which is double the owed amount so says the workers right in the place I work now)

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35 minutes ago, Astus said:

my question would be that in New Jersey for example, you are required to be paid $8.30 per hour or something like that... If a waiter/waitress worked eight hours making lets just say $2.30 an hour and didn't get any tips yet they still performed their job; wouldn't they be making under minimum wage and the company be forced to reimburse them they money they deserve? (which is double the owed amount so says the workers right in the place I work now)

According to some posters here, if tips don't make up the minimum, the restaurant must compensate them for the difference.

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