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#00Buck
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Who do you owe money to?  

48 members have voted

  1. 1. Who do you owe money to? (choose as many as relevant)

    • Student Loans
      16
    • Car Payments
      3
    • Mortgage
      6
    • Unpaid Rent
      0
    • Unpaid Utilities
      0
    • Credit Cards
      6
    • Friends
      3
    • Family
      4
    • Unpaid Taxes / The Government
      4
    • Bad People
      1
    • Medical Bills
      4
    • Fines / Bail / Bond
      0
    • I don't owe anyone anything.
      22


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2 minutes ago, Mr.Kumquat said:

In fact i know many wealthy engineers. I live near Seattle where Boeing is prominent. 

I asked for a percentage, suggested a median income?  You're saying that a engineering degree = $728k/year (You said 10x$35/hr, I'm holding you to that) and I'm not quite buying that.  I imagine SOME are sure.  I imagine you may know some.  I'm just sayin, if we're looking at $728k/year for being an engineer, EVERYONE would be trying to be an engineer.  DOGS AND HOUSE PLANTS would be applying for programs.

Edited by AshleyAshes
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4 minutes ago, GamingGal said:

But what if that's something you're completely uninterested in? Just suck it up and do it for the money anyways? Or work a minimum wage job for who knows how many years to be able to save money?

As opposed to graduating with debt and not getting a good job and doing something you are not interested in just to keep alive under the strain of massive debt? 

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1 minute ago, Lemon said:

Don't open that can of worms. It's already a STEM and trade circlejerk in here. 

Obviously, making as much money as possible and saying fuck you to your interests is most important. 

Nobody said that. 

What is being said is get a decent job that pays well and save up for university in advance.

Then graduate with a degree in what you are interested and debt free. 

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1 minute ago, GamingGal said:

Yeah, they are. I'm a server and, while I love my job, I'm still doing it for the money until I can pursue my true passion. But the difference is to be a min wage worker you don't need a degree, so you're not losing anything when you take one of those jobs. If you do what Buck is suggesting by going to a trade school as a first step or whatever, you still need to pay tuition and fees. And I don't see why you should do that if it's not what you really want to do.

Degree?  You need like ONE YEAR in a trade school to get into a skilled trade and it's much cheaper than a university.  Why do you think that skilled tradespeople have multiyear university degrees? O.o

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4 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

...Aren't most minimum wage workers ALSO sucking it up and doing it for the money?  Does anyone grow up saying 'When I grow up I want to be a barista!  Or maybe answer customer support calls for AT&T!"?

Exactly. But having that barista job sucks even more if you have a degree and massive debt. 

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Just now, #00Buck said:

Nobody said that. 

What is being said is get a decent job that pays well and save up for university in advance.

Then graduate with a degree in what you are interested and debt free. 

What this forgets is the industries that prize younger applicants than older ones. Age bias is a pretty prominent thing in my neck of the woods. 

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2 minutes ago, Lemon said:

What this forgets is the industries that prize younger applicants than older ones. Age bias is a pretty prominent thing in my neck of the woods. 

One year of trade school and two years of work is nothing. 

There is no difference between hiring a 23 year old and a 25 year old.

You are also forgetting.

Job experience trumps youth every time. 

Every employer will take a person with several years of work experience and a degree over someone with a degree and no work experience. 

Edited by #00Buck
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Just now, AshleyAshes said:

Degree?  You need like ONE YEAR in a trade school to get into a skilled trade and it's much cheaper than a university.  Why do you think that skilled tradespeople have multiyear university degrees? O.o

I still don't see why I should have to get a certificate/degree in a trade, which requires paying for it (cheaper or not), when it's not what I'm even remotely interested in. Making that argument is like what Lemon said: "Obviously, making as much money as possible and saying fuck you to your interests is most important."

And I agree with Lemon that, yes, age bias is totally a thing in my neck of the woods as well. Making someone wait until their late 20's or early 30's to actually start pursuing their 4-8yr degree is silly when their desired job field desires younger applicants.

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2 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

I asked for a percentage, suggested a median income?  You're saying that a engineering degree = $728k/year (You said 10x$35/hr, I'm holding you to that) and I'm not quite buying that.  I imagine SOME are sure.  I imagine you may know some.  I'm just sayin, if we're looking at $728k/year for being an engineer, EVERYONE would be trying to be an engineer.  DOGS AND HOUSE PLANTS would be applying for programs.

If you're able to kick ass in a trade and make buku bucks, imagine what you could do with a masters degree. Yeah my "10 times the salary" was an exaggeration. Fact is, people with a higher education on average make way more than people that have no degree, and that's counting debt.

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23 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Something I've noticed in this thread where people are either saying 'UNIVERSITY IS A SCAM!  JUST GIVE UP NOW OR TRY TO GO IT ALONE!' vs the people saying that 'University is required to even get anywhere!'.  Has either side of this debate ever heard of skilled trades?  These are fairly reliable fields and pay better than a LOT of jobs.  How about how we talk about how skilled trades are somehow 'shunned' professions by most people? 

Mos Def! A skilled trade position ($Electrician$) was how I was able to pay for the education costs for my first degree that my scholarships didn't cover. 

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2 minutes ago, GamingGal said:

I still don't see why I should have to get a certificate/degree in a trade, which requires paying for it (cheaper or not), when it's not what I'm even remotely interested in. Making that argument is like what Lemon said: "Obviously, making as much money as possible and saying fuck you to your interests is most important."

And I agree with Lemon that, yes, age bias is totally a thing in my neck of the woods as well. Making someone wait until their late 20's or early 30's to actually start pursuing their 4-8yr degree is silly when their desired job field desires younger applicants.

Fun fact: (at least in the US) age discrimination is illegal. 

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1 minute ago, GamingGal said:

I still don't see why I should have to get a certificate/degree in a trade, which requires paying for it (cheaper or not), when it's not what I'm even remotely interested in. Making that argument is like what Lemon said: "Obviously, making as much money as possible and saying fuck you to your interests is most important."

And I agree with Lemon that, yes, age bias is totally a thing in my neck of the woods as well. Making someone wait until their late 20's or early 30's to actually start pursuing their 4-8yr degree is silly when their desired job field desires younger applicants.

The isn't any employer that wants "younger" people in terms of their 20's. 

A few years is meaningless. To a company owner anyone in their early to mid 20's is a young person.

Work experience is worth the most.

If I have to choose between hiring an engineer who is 23 years old and has no work experience.

Vs. an engineer who is 26 years old and has three years of welding experience working on engineering projects guess who I will hire?

 

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2 minutes ago, #00Buck said:

One year or trade school and two years of work is nothing. 

There is not difference between hiring a 23 year old and a 25 year old.

You are also forgetting.

Job experience trumps youth every time. 

Every employer will take a person with several years work experience and a degree one someone with a degree and no work experience. 

I'm actually talking about my industry in commercial graphic design, like package design, pattern design, all sorts of stuff like that. I'll watch employers visit our school and others across the country and specifically look for juniors and seniors only. Only currently enrolled. And, when we have job fairs, you'll see alumni who are also searching for jobs just glazed over as soon as you don't say you're a current student. 

A lot of my industry relies on the youth because of things like trends and computer userability. If you Google 'age bias in searching for jobs', its actually an interesting read.

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Just now, Zeke said:

A friend of mine whose a Technician has had troubles getting a job because he's pushing 50, despite his qualifications for tech jobs and updating his certs. 

The tech sector is absolutely notorious for age discrimination. Most companies barely even try to hide it.

I went into the sciences largely because I thought the entire hiring situation for other tech positions was completely nuts.

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Just now, Lemon said:

I'm actually talking about my industry in commercial graphic design, like package design, pattern design, all sorts of stuff like that. I'll watch employers visit our school and others across the country and specifically look for juniors and seniors only. Only currently enrolled. And, when we have job fairs, you'll see alumni who are also searching for jobs just glazed over as soon as you don't say you're a current student. 

A lot of my industry relies on the youth because of things like trends and computer userability. If you Google 'age bias in searching for jobs', its actually an interesting read.

I'm sure that's a function of school policy and not that employers don't want people who are one year older than you. 

Work experience trumps all. 

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5 minutes ago, Mr.Kumquat said:

Fun fact: (at least in the US) age discrimination is illegal. 

Not in the right to work states that use the "At-Will Employment" act. Well...it is illegal, but they can skirt around it and use it for any excuse to hire or fire you for it. 

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3 minutes ago, Onnes said:

The tech sector is absolutely notorious for age discrimination. Most companies barely even try to hide it.

I went into the sciences largely because I thought the entire hiring situation for other tech positions was completely nuts.

Not over a two year difference. 

Nobody is that picky.

a 20 year difference I could see. But nobody is advocating you save up 20 years for school. 

Edited by #00Buck
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Just now, AshleyAshes said:

Because it totally sucks when you hire an electrician and your home burns down the next month because they learned it all on YouTube?  Especially the part where the children burn alive?

No, you're missing my point. I'm saying why should I have to get a trade degree first to be able to go pursue my actual degree if I have NO INTEREST in said trade. You guys are all "yeah trade school! quick and you can make money!" Well, what if I don't want to be an electrician or welder or etc? I could also make money being an escort (which is legal), but I don't want to. I shouldn't have to do something that is of zero interest to me (which I also assume would mean you would care less for the job and be not as good at it because of that) in order to do what I want to do.

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1 minute ago, GamingGal said:

No, you're missing my point. I'm saying why should I have to get a trade degree first to be able to go pursue my actual degree if I have NO INTEREST in said trade. You guys are all "yeah trade school! quick and you can make money!" Well, what if I don't want to be an electrician or welder or etc? I could also make money being an escort (which is legal), but I don't want to. I shouldn't have to do something that is of zero interest to me (which I also assume would mean you would care less for the job and be not as good at it because of that) in order to do what I want to do.

Then don't bitch about being in debt. 

It's your choice. You have options. 

You choose debt. So suck it up and take it. 

1 minute ago, Zeke said:

No one will pick someone over a 2 year difference, but they'll pick someone younger over 15+ older and has more than 5+ years experience in that field. 

Again nobody is advocating you take 15 years to save up for school. 

The effect of debt on you one your total life span can be horrible. 

I don't understand why people are in such denial about the intelligent of avoiding massive debt.

So you take another job for two years. People live to be 100 these days. Who cares? 

Edited by #00Buck
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1 minute ago, Zeke said:

Not in the right to work states that use the "At-Will Employment" act. Well...it is illegal, but they can skirt around it and use it for any excuse to hire or fire you for it. 

Yeah, if you're 1 year from retirement age, they can say you don't have the retainability. If the company offers healthcare and you're a smoker, they can deny you employment because you're a health risk. Plenty of loopholes. All have reasons. but hiring a 23 year old vs a 28 year old based on age is something you can take to court.

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5 minutes ago, #00Buck said:

I'm sure that's a function of school policy and not that employers don't want people who are one year older than you. 

Work experience trumps all. 

I really hate pulling this, but this is something I know more than you on because I am in it. This is something I live and breathe. This is nothing to do with my school policies and everything with Reebok wanting to hire their target audience.

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2 minutes ago, #00Buck said:

 

Again nobody is advocating you take 15 years to save up for school. 

The effect of debt on you one your total life span can be horrible. 

I don't understand why people are in such denial about the intelligent of avoiding massive debt.

So you take another job for two years. People live to be 100 these days. Who cares? 

I wasn't referring to debt; I am referring to age bias. Regardless if you went to a trade school at 45 to get a Hardware Engineer degree 2 years earlier, people can be prejudice about the age of an old guy or girl when hiring.  

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Just now, Lemon said:

I really hate pulling this, but this is something I know more than you on because I am in it. This is something I live and breathe. This is nothing to do with my school policies and everything with Reebok wanting to hire their target audience.

So you said alumni from previous years didn't get jobs?

Were they not young people the previous year? 

Not everyone gets hired. Even if they are the exact same age as you.

What if you don't get picked? 

Then you are the barista with huge debt. 

Is Reebok going to hire the entire class? Nope.

Maybe one or two people. The rest get nothing. 

Just now, Zeke said:

I wasn't referring to debt; I am referring to age bias. Regardless if you went to a trade school at 45 to get a Hardware Engineer degree 2 years earlier, people can be prejudice about the age of an old guy or girl when hiring.  

Yeah, but nobody is talking about a difference that extreme. Again we're talking 2-3 years. That's all. 

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5 minutes ago, #00Buck said:

Then don't bitch about being in debt. 

It's your choice. You have options. 

You choose debt. So suck it up and take it. 

So because I chose to not go after a certificate I'm completely disinterested in, which would result in me doing poorly at my job, I deserve to be in debt?

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5 minutes ago, #00Buck said:

Then don't bitch about being in debt. 

It's your choice. You have options. 

You choose debt. So suck it up and take it. 

"Why are you bitching about being hungry? There's a half eaten hot dog on the street. Don't be so stuck up". 

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Just now, GamingGal said:

So because I chose to not go after a certificate I'm completely disinterested in, which would result in me doing poorly at my job, I deserve to be in debt?

No. You deserve to be in debt because you signed for the loan.

That's called being a responsible adult. 

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1 minute ago, Lemon said:

"Why are you bitching about being hungry? There's a half eaten hot dog on the street. Don't be so stuck up". 

There's a huge difference between being homeless and being a student who takes out a massive loan.

The homeless person is actually smarter.

Their net worth is way higher than the student. 

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Just now, #00Buck said:

There's a huge difference between being homeless and being a student who takes out a massive loan.

The homeless person is actually smarter.

Their net worth is way higher than the student. 

Except that students who take on large amounts of debt, but complete a good degree program, usually pay off their loans and are left with an actual career.

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1 minute ago, Onnes said:

Except that students who take on large amounts of debt, but complete a good degree program, usually pay off their loans and are left with an actual career.

That's a gamble. A huge gamble that four years after you start a school program that your skill will still be in demand. That you will be that much better than everyone else that graduated in the same year as you. That you will ever be able to pay off the debt even if you do get a job in your field. 

Plus homeless people went to school too. Some have degrees. I wonder if they couldn't afford the loan payments?

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1 minute ago, #00Buck said:

There's a huge difference between being homeless and being a student who takes out a massive loan.

The homeless person is actually smarter.

Their net worth is way higher than the student. 

Oh, I wasn't being literal. I'm giving an example as how ridiculous that statement you made was for people who want to enjoy their lives. 

 

See, I think the carnal difference between folks who think like you and folks who think like me care more about enjoying their lives. Sure, debt is tough, but it is required for the things we want to do (which is a separate issue: how expensive college is, of any kind) Folks like me believe that our lives and Time are worth more than money. 

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1 minute ago, Lemon said:

Oh, I wasn't being literal. I'm giving an example as how ridiculous that statement you made was for people who want to enjoy their lives. 

 

See, I think the carnal difference between folks who think like you and folks who think like me care more about enjoying their lives. Sure, debt is tough, but it is required for the things we want to do (which is a separate issue: how expensive college is, of any kind) Folks like me believe that our lives and Time are worth more than money. 

Anyone who bitches about money cares about it a whole lot.

If you really didn't care about money you wouldn't care about debt. 

You've posted many times in the past complaining about a lack of money.

Clearly you care about it.

Clearly the lack of it has made your life difficult. You can't deny this.

Edited by #00Buck
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3 minutes ago, Lemon said:

Folks like me believe that our lives and Time are worth more than money. 

The six weeks of 12hr days bought me a sweet couch to spend my free time on.  Which I'm doing now, it's comfy. :3  The upcoming summer blockbuster crunch assures me a new box spring and mattress set by July! :3

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11 minutes ago, Chrysocyon said:

It's a Buck thread, we've come to expect this.

Someone caught on.

7 minutes ago, Mr.Kumquat said:

What if i'm an alcoholic and can't control my actions?! But yeah. I'm sure I'll be posting an apology thread in the morning.

As long as you accept responsibility for fresh stitches you are okay.

2 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

The six weeks of 12hr days bought me a sweet couch to spend my free time on.  Which I'm doing now, it's comfy. :3  The upcoming summer blockbuster crunch assures me a new box spring and mattress set by July! :3

Money might not make everyone happy.

But it certainly does make everyone comfortable. 

Comfort is a very enjoyable things. 

People who don't have any seem to be miserable people.

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1 minute ago, #00Buck said:

Anyone who bitches about money cares about it a whole lot.

If you really didn't care about money you wouldn't care about debt. 

You've posted many times in the past complaining about a lack of money.

Clearly you care about it.

Clearly the lack of it has made your life difficult. You can't deny this.

You didn't grasp my point. My time is more important than wasting ~10 years of it to do a trade I hated, work a job I hated, and save up to do something I wanted but then find I'm too old to really be effective in it. 

Or, what if I want a family? I can't be 30 and have a kid and say, oh, now that I've saved enough to go to school, I can drop the job I hate but supports my family because I want to be happy. It'd be more responsible of me to put that ~60k I saved towards a down payment on a house and a college fund for my kids. Boom. Now what you've suggested guaranteed me a life I hated because I went to trade school in an effort to be in no debt when I went to the other school I wanted to be in all along. 

Also, my socioeconomic status is not just due to money. There are many facets to my situation, 80% of which I couldn't control.  Because of how my industry worms, if I had waited until I was self sufficient I would have missed out. 

 

Life with student debt in job I like > life debt free with job I hate. However, I'm still allowed to complain that college could be paid in full by a part time job in the 1970s v now, as the cost of college inflating and the associated costs are entirely different related issues I couldn't control. 

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