Jump to content

Autistic suicidal Trans man murdered by police


Crazy Lee
 Share

Recommended Posts

So, person's acting suicidal, someone calls the cops, and the cops decide to help the person by helping them kill themselves... by shooting them!

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/woman-asperger-shot-dead-police-article-1.2520902

I haven't heard of this person before, but the story goes that Kayden Clarke, who has been in viral videos self-harming where a dog would comfort him and prevent him from hitting or harming himself, was having another episode, had a knife, and the cops felt threatened (when do American cops NOT feel threatened? Testicle-less cowards!) and shot him.

A lot of the news stories call Kayden by his birth name and gender, Danielle Jacobs, more than likely because they don't know he's trans, and because his birth mother still uses his birth name and gender.

Still, gotta love how well trained American cops are. They can't even deal with a heated situation without spewing bullets all over the place.

So, 'Murrica. Number 1 in prison population. Number 1 in number of guns for a developed nation. Number 1 in number of cops killing people in a developed nation. Great thing, being exceptional and all. Exceptional at sucking.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On the one hand, the person did have a knife and did lunge at the police so they weren't entirely unjustified in the shooting.


On the other hand, this is exactly why more police should be equipped and appropriately trained on the usage of less lethal weapons and also police should be responding to calls involving emotionally disturbed persons with other professionals onboard.  Particularly in larger cities, police departments of sufficient size should have psychiatric nurses or something who can respond to these calls along with the police in hopes of better dealing with them.  We have a problem where we expect to call the police and just have them 'do something' when they may not be the appropriate ones to single handedly deal with it at all.

  • Like 10
Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Police told local media that the 24-year-old, who they identified by his legal name Danielle Jacobs, came at them with a knife and they fired in self-defense."

 

I'm so tired of idiotic news outlets and college kids always being apologists for people who die at the hands of the police, whether it's justified or not. Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and now this guy. OH BOO HOO HE DIDNU NUFFIN, POLICE BRUTALITY! Look, cops aren't these power-hungry, trigger-happy numb-skulls out to brutalize every person they find. Guess what, if this guy wasn't transgender this would be a non-event, but because he's LGBT the WHOLE WORLD has to come down on top of the police because DEY SOOO EVILLLL. I find it far more plausible that a suicidal guy rushed a cop with a knife than a bunch of cops gunning down a guy for no reason.

Once more evidence comes out, then and only then can we make a more open-minded judgement about the situation, but until then stop accusing the cops of shooting an "innocent" person.

Edited by KryptoKroenen
  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 minutes ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

I like how the cops always seem to shoot to kill. I always read on these and the guy is dead as opposed to just injured

They shoot to stop the threat. If someone rushed me with a knife I'd shoot to kill...it would never enter my mind to have any consideration for their life, as they obviously have none for mine.

Edited by KryptoKroenen
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, KryptoKroenen said:

They shoot to stop the threat. When someone rushes you with a knife, most people would empty the whole mag in their general direction without thinking whether they will injure or kill them. At least the cop can make a decent judgement before hand.

They're trained to use their guns as their last defense, something is amiss when the first thing they do is whip out their guns with the intent to kill.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, MagnusGear said:

They're trained to use their guns as their last defense, something is amiss when the first thing they do is whip out their guns with the intent to kill.

When a suicidal psycho rushes you with a knife you are justified in using your last defense. And before you mention tasers, they are used to stop fleeing suspects and are not a reliable line of self-defense; if your attacker is wearing a jacket there is a good chance it won't work.

Edited by KryptoKroenen
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

10 minutes ago, KryptoKroenen said:

"Police told local media that the 24-year-old, who they identified by his legal name Danielle Jacobs, came at them with a knife and they fired in self-defense."

 

I'm so tired of idiotic news outlets and college kids always being apologists for people who die at the hands of the police, whether it's justified or not. Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown, and now this guy. OH BOO HOO HE DIDNU NUFFIN, POLICE BRUTALITY! Look, cops aren't these power-hungry, trigger-happy numb-skulls out to brutalize every person they find. Guess what, if this guy wasn't transgender this would be a non-event, but because he's LGBT the WHOLE WORLD has to come down on top of the police because DEY SOOO EVILLLL. I find it far more plausible that a suicidal guy rushed a cop with a knife than a bunch of cops gunning down a guy for no reason.

Once more evidence comes out, then and only then can we make a more open-minded judgement about the situation, but until then stop accusing the cops of shooting an "innocent" person.

Such a lack of compassion..."came at THEM with a knife." You mean to tell me that a group of people couldn't subdue a guy with a knife, before pulling out a gun to kill them? That is absolutely NOT a reasonable response to such a threat. A lack of empathy, and a lack of compassion will always lead to such disproportionate responses. I feel that these things are lacking in many police officers in America these days. Also, have you seen how out of shape many police officers are here? Of course it is easier for them to shoot someone than to physically restraint them!

 

Alas, there is such a thing as "suicide by cop," but it is still quite saddening to see people more than willing to do so...

  • Like 5
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I get the impression they decided to kill themselves through the medium of police officers.

Even if they run at you with a knife, you shouldn't fucking kill them on the spot. It's pretty barbaric.
There are plenty of ways to deal with knife-wielders without ending their life.

I was shown this video a few days ago. A man with a machete runs at police in Scotland, and is dealt with without harm. US police officials visited to learn new tactics that don't involve deadly force.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Ieono said:

 

Such a lack of compassion..."came at THEM with a knife." You mean to tell me that a group of people couldn't subdue a guy with a knife, before pulling out a gun to kill them? That is absolutely NOT a reasonable response to such a threat. A lack of empathy, and a lack of compassion will always lead to such disproportionate responses. I feel that these things are lacking in many police officers in America these days. Also, have you seen how out of shape many police officers are here? Of course it is easier for them to shoot someone than to physically restraint them!

 

Alas, there is such a thing as "suicide by cop," but it is still quite saddening to see people more than willing to do so...

I'm sorry, but anyone who tries to make a point about self-defense, politics, or life-threatening decisions by invoking emotional appeal (muh emotion, muh empathy, muh compassion) has no business making said decisions. I don't care how many people there are, all that guy needs to do is swing a knife in the wrong direction he stabs an innocent cop in the throat...they eventually subdue him, but not before one of them is choking on their own blood. I have no sympathy for suicidal psychos who attack cops...I'm entitled to my opinion, and that's what it is. If someone is going to kill themselves, let them. If you want to, talk them out of it, but don't blame others for not trying to stop them. Natural Selection works best when left alone.

 

Yes, I have seen many out-of-shape police officers, and I believe the current state of the American police force is definitely sub-par, but that is not relevant to this situation. Oh look, some cops are fat so these cops are in the wrong...how does that even connect?

2 minutes ago, DrDingo said:

I get the impression they decided to kill themselves through the medium of police officers.

Even if they run at you with a knife, you shouldn't fucking kill them on the spot. It's pretty barbaric.
There are plenty of ways to deal with knife-wielders without ending their life.

I was shown this video a few days ago. A man with a machete runs at police in Scotland, and is dealt with without harm. US police officials visited to learn new tactics that don't involve deadly force.

You want to know what's both barbaric and psychotic? Trying to get someone else to kill you by attacking them with a knife.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

No warning shots? Not aiming at legs? Why not? Sounds better that than dumping the entire mag to upper torso, but what do I know, I'm not a US cop.

Like I said before, if someone rushes you with a knife, you have a split-second window to make a decision about what you are going to do. Better safe than sorry.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, KryptoKroenen said:

You want to know what's both barbaric and psychotic? Trying to get someone else to kill you by attacking them with a knife.

As if the person with the knife stood a chance.

They didn't do it to harm a police officer. They did it to die.
You know what should happen to people who attempt suicide? They should be rehabilitated. Not fucking killed.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, DrDingo said:

As if the person with the knife stood a chance.

They didn't do it to harm a police officer. They did it to die.
You know what should happen to people who attempt suicide? They should be rehabilitated. Not fucking killed.

Maybe. I just personally feel that if someone is going to kill themselves, you can try to talk them out of it, but if they still won't listen, let them do what they are going to do. I don't believe in inhibiting Natural Selection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, KryptoKroenen said:

Like I said before, if someone rushes you with a knife, you have a split-second window to make a decision about what you are going to do. Better safe than sorry.

You have a fucking gun in your hands and if you can perform a lethal shot you sure as shit can try to go nonlethal. All you have to do is aim a bit lower. It's no excuse to be "better safe than sorry" You are supposed to keep your citizen alive for fucks sake.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

You have a fucking gun in your hands and if you can perform a lethal shot you sure as shit can try to go nonlethal. All you have to do is aim a bit lower. It's no excuse to be "better safe than sorry" You are supposed to keep your citizen alive for fucks sake.

kk, well if you ever find yourself in that situation you do that, because I'm shooting to kill anyone who attacks me with a deadly weapon. Dead men tell no tales...

Edited by KryptoKroenen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, KryptoKroenen said:

kk, well if you ever find yourself in that situation you do that, because I'm shooting to kill anyone who attacks me with a deadly weapon.

Dude if I was in the police force and someone came at me with an inferior weapon and I had a partner with me I sure as shit would not shoot to kill. You can be certain of that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, KryptoKroenen said:

I'm sorry, but anyone who tries to make a point about self-defense, politics, or life-threatening decisions by invoking emotional appeal (muh emotion, muh empathy, muh compassion) has no business making said decisions. I don't care how many people there are, all that guy needs to do is swing a knife in the wrong direction he stabs an innocent cop in the throat...they eventually subdue him, but not before one of them is choking on their own blood. I have no sympathy for suicidal psychos who attack cops...I'm entitled to my opinion, and that's what it is. If someone is going to kill themselves, let them. If you want to, talk them out of it, but don't blame others for not trying to stop them. Natural Selection works best when left alone.

 

Yes, I have seen many out-of-shape police officers, and I believe the current state of the American police force is definitely sub-par, but that is not relevant to this situation. Oh look, some cops are fat so these cops are in the wrong...how does that even connect?

"Muh?" Hmm...

You seem to be advocating that cops should respond with deadly force first, as if they couldn't even consider other options. I honestly can't debate such a ludicrous idea. And if you can't see the correlation between physical fitness and ability to respond to physical threats (Such as a running or physically-attacking criminal), then I definitely have no more words for you, bud.

Natural Selection? Wow these are some backwards ideas!

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, KryptoKroenen said:

Maybe. I just personally feel that if someone is going to kill themselves, you can try to talk them out of it, but if they still won't listen, let them do what they are going to do. I don't believe in inhibiting Natural Selection.

His family, man. They're distraught.

Even if you feel no sympathy for the person who committed suicide, the police did the wrong thing by murdering the family's kid because they caused such immense grief and loss to his family.

The family would help the child if they knew. If the police arrested him, they could tell his family, who would arrange mental support. Things would have ended better for everyone.

Edited by DrDingo
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 minutes ago, Ieono said:

"Muh?" Hmm...

You seem to be advocating that cops should respond with deadly force first, as if they couldn't even consider other options. I honestly can't debate such a ludicrous idea. And if you can't see the correlation between physical fitness and ability to respond to physical threats (Such as a running or physically-attacking criminal), then I definitely have no more words for you, bud.

Natural Selection? Wow these are some backwards ideas!

 

Yes, I guess I am. That is true now that I think about...I mean, considering how fat some of those police officers are, that knife probably wouldn't even make it halfway through their lard before it got anywhere near a vital organ. xD Darwin's discoveries are backwards ideas? What?

7 minutes ago, DrDingo said:

His family, man. They're distraught.

Even if you feel no sympathy for the person who committed suicide, the police did the wrong thing by murdering the family's kid because they caused such immense grief and loss to his family.

The family would help the child if they knew. If the police arrested the him, they could tell his family, who would arrange mental support. Things would have ended better for everyone.

kk, I can see that this is going in a less-than-pleasant direction, so I'll bow out. If I elaborated more on my opinions about this case and why I hold them, I'd probably piss a lot of people off. I'm not the most empathetic of people when it comes to certain matters...

Edited by KryptoKroenen
Link to comment
Share on other sites

35 minutes ago, Crazy Lee said:

Yea, what Ashely said. Expecting the police to deal with mentally ill or suicidal people. That's who ALWAYS responds to such a situation and they're never trained for it.

Yeah, because the situation as a whole sucks.  If you send out cops with nothing but pistols you also have a problem where the only force they can respond with is either 'wrestle the subject' or 'shoot the subject' when what they REALLY need is something inbetween.  And there is training, when police are responding to everything from robberies to sexual assault victims to emotionally disturbed invididuals, you may not have the necessary toolset to deal with them all the best.  We don't just need to hold police forces accountable but we as a society need to ensuring that our response systems can actually cope with all of these situations.

I had a roommate years ago who was suicidal, I wasn't threatened but she had an exacto knife while in a very confused state of thoughts of self-destructive.  I kept it calm, I rather quietly messaged a friend to call 911 in my behalf to ensure that me dialing 911 would escalate the situation.  Asked her to tell the police to come without the sirens and inform them that the deadbolt was not locked.  This was Ottawa where responding constables had a taser and they had the taser trained on her but no other weapons drawn.  She didn't come at them, there were paramedics right behind the police, but if she had, she'd have gotten tased rather than shot.  That's a much more suitable situation than having police choose between 'wrestle for the knife' or '9mm rounds'.

 

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I am planning to post a more intelligent response to everyone but didn't expect this to blow up so much. (Should I be surprised, though?)

 

3 minutes ago, Imperial Impact said:

 

200_s.gif

So you think that people who are autistic are more dangerous than others? When people with mental illnesses are more often the victims of violence?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are a Police officer. You should shoot to injure, NEVER SHOOT TO KILL. You knew this person was feeling suicidal, you knew exactly what you were going into. If your first response was shoot to kill then you are not fit for civil defence, you are suit for a mental ward, prison or the military.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, Snagged Cub said:

But what if the police wouldn't have shot or had only shot to injure?

Then the correct procedure would have taken place: The person is handcuffed, taken away by police and sent somewhere where he can get the mental help he needs. His family would be informed and they would work something out. Without death.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Am I the only one that feels mentioning the person as an LGBT minority and as having a disability was kind of unnescessary except to garner more sympathy? Would the same interest be given to a cisgendered non-autistic male who was suicidal? Edit: Looking at the articles both titles can be used to describe the situation (seeing as his birth name was female and it would be wrong not to make that distinction, and that his autism added to his mental instability of the situation)

Either way it sucks and there really could have been a better way. This was a civilian teenager who is mentally unstable not some criminal. Really the state of law enforcement can be appaling

Edited by WolfNightV4X1
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I believe that people should be allowed to kill themselves if they wish. Personal autonomy is all we really, truly have, and no one has to live your life at the end of the day except you.
So forcing the police into a situation like that against the person's will, just because people feel as if their grief overrides someone's self-ownership, is something I will always consider tremendously shitty.

That being said, the police are also wildly incompetent for causing the very thing they were sent there to prevent.
Regardless of all this middleschool Hot Topic-brand edgelord "the world is kill or be killed" bullfuck, they were sent there for a specific job, and they failed exceptionally at it.
You mean to tell me that someone who's already on the verge of death might lash back when confronted? Oh my! Stop the fucking presses!

It may be a split-second situation, but if you can't react appropriately in those kinds of stressful heat-of-the-moment instances, you know, maybe you shouldn't be in a position specifically meant to de-escalate stressful situations then, huh?
Or maybe that just makes too much sense for people.

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Vae said:

I believe that people should be allowed to kill themselves if they wish. Personal autonomy is all we really, truly have, and no one has to live your life at the end of the day except you.

So, should we have these then?

suicidebooth%20front%20cover.jpg?1337090

I kind of agree with your point, but the grief or close ones, mental stability of the suiciding person and potential loss of unique skill IS a factor you should take into consideration

Also, I think it takes a tremendous effort to take a suicidal/extremely depressed person back on being a functional member of the society so sometimes total termination might be a better option, though above factors must be accounted for

Link to comment
Share on other sites

For example, who called the police?

If Kayden was not in the right frame of mind at the time there's a possibility he never wanted to die (self harm =/= suicide) in general and just needed serious help, of which he was unable to recieve. 

Edited by WolfNightV4X1
Pls ignore dble pst kthx
Link to comment
Share on other sites

21 minutes ago, Snagged Cub said:

Also, I think it takes a tremendous effort to take a suicidal/extremely depressed person back on being a functional member of the society so sometimes total termination might be a better option, though above factors must be accounted for

 

 Who gets to decide what level of depression is too high to  terminate a person? We are taking about human beings here. People are able to snap out of such things with consoling.

 

Edited by Maug
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, KryptoKroenen said:

Yes, I guess I am. That is true now that I think about...I mean, considering how fat some of those police officers are, that knife probably wouldn't even make it halfway through their lard before it got anywhere near a vital organ. xD Darwin's discoveries are backwards ideas? What?

Not to start that discussion, but Darwin's Discovery of processes can be accepted regardless of ones opinion whether those processes should be used in a society. Darwinian evolution =/= Social Darwinism

1 hour ago, Vae said:

I believe that people should be allowed to kill themselves if they wish. Personal autonomy is all we really, truly have, and no one has to live your life at the end of the day except you.
So forcing the police into a situation like that against the person's will, just because people feel as if their grief overrides someone's self-ownership, is something I will always consider tremendously shitty.

One could argue whether in a case like that it is an informed decision, whether they really had autonomy over themselves at that point

Edited by Toboe
inserted missing 'to'
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I knew OP was retarded but I'm surprised so many people agree with them

its pretty fucking cut and dry

it doesn't matter if you're a wacked out tranny or not, you attack an armed person with a knife, you get shot

its not a fucking action movie, they not gonna pull off some sick moves and shoot the knife out of the persons hand

they make a split second decision of "shoot this person or potentially get stabbed and die"

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Maug said:

Who gets to decide what level of depression is too high to  terminate a person? We are taking about human beings here. People are able to snap out of such things with consoling.

If a person attempts suicide for too many times, has rejected counseling multiple times or hasn't recovered from them and doesn't have relatives/friends who are willing to help then it should be considered to offer euthanasia (aka assisted suicide) for the person

I understand your concerns but you have to draw the end of the line somewhere when it comes to getting a suicidal person back on track

As for the OP, letting a policy arbitrarily decide on that matter because they felt threatened was definitely not right thing to do

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, 6tails said:

They ARE. Every cop I've seen for almost two decades has standard-issue chest and back plate protection and tasers + pepper spray + baton/nightstick.

They're just too fucking cowardly to put their life on the line like they're supposed to.

This actually depends on the police service and the equipment they purchase and issue.  We'll not bother addressing your mistaken belief that most police in the United States are wearing plate armor.  Anyway, equiptment varies from state and municipality and where they want tos pend their money.  I feel that services that are not equipping an training responding officers for more less leathal options have a serious shortcoming in serving their communities.

A good example however would be Toronto. Huge city but constables aren't rolling with tasers unless they call in a supervising sergeant.  And then some constable puts 8 out of 9 .40 cal rounds into a kid with a knife on a streetcar.   But, well, he was convicted the other week because he couldn't wait for the sergeant to show up.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

41 minutes ago, Snagged Cub said:

So, should we have these then?

[picture]

I kind of agree with your point, but the grief or close ones, mental stability of the suiciding person and potential loss of unique skill IS a factor you should take into consideration

Also, I think it takes a tremendous effort to take a suicidal/extremely depressed person back on being a functional member of the society so sometimes total termination might be a better option, though above factors must be accounted for

Eh, I think if someone truly wants to get rid of themselves, we have enough options available. They do take some effort, and jumping over the element of fear, so that balances out the field somewhat for people who may quickly change their minds, and would ward them off.
And that's not a bad thing.

Also, I just don't like the concept of someone's grief and personal feelings owning another person's entire state of being.
Humans are emotionally-driven creatures, so it's natural we're going to have a negative reaction to someone we value trying disappear forever. But at the same time, I just don't think it's right that it should override someone's personal wishes on whether or not they should be alive.


Also, people that are in a depressed or emotionally-compromised state are not children.
There's no laws stating that I can't drink or smoke or drive or vote or sign a lease or anything else if I'm horribly depressed or disassociating or what have you.
To only apply this to suicide, because suicide just happens to inconvenience other people, is kind of shitty.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, 6tails said:

They may not choose to wear it, but they are issued it. Every state (and even some cities) have an equipment maintenance manifest for EVERY OFFICER. Listed in every one of those state and city laws is armor.

Armor is provided to every LEO. It may not be modern kevlar armor, it might be the heavier flak steel from the 80s, but it is stil issued armor nonetheless.

6tails, you didn't say 'armor', you said 'plate protection'.  You're right, they don't actually wear plate armor.  Glad you changed your words to agree with me now. ^_^

Edited by AshleyAshes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Guest locked this topic
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...