Tim Hortons and Bitcoin Megathread

[Rassah]

There is one awesome thing I like about crashes though: the wealthy who overextended themselves have their crap crash, and everyone else can pick it up for cheap. Best "natural" method of wealth redistribution out there, especially since usually said wealth is rather ill gotten gains (like the shit our bankers pulled in '08). Looking forward to people being able to afford housing in Canada again.

[Pignog]

#feelthebern

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadian-economy-contracts-in-the-second-quarter/article31633521/

[WileyWarWeasel]

11 hours ago, Rassah said:

There is one awesome thing I like about crashes though: the wealthy who overextended themselves have their crap crash, and everyone else can pick it up for cheap. Best "natural" method of wealth redistribution out there, especially since usually said wealth is rather ill gotten gains (like the shit our bankers pulled in '08). Looking forward to people being able to afford housing in Canada again.

Assuming they have the money to do so ^__^

There's also the wealthy who didn't overextend themselves picking up lots of stuff for cheap too.

11 hours ago, Pignog said:

#feelthebern

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadian-economy-contracts-in-the-second-quarter/article31633521/

They should do what their southern neighbors are doing and add stuff to the latest GDP calculations that wasn't there before (eg rent that would've been paid if an owner-occupied property was rented out, prostitution, illicit drugs, etc).

[Pignog]

all aspects of civilization must be sacrificed on the altar of the invisible hand, in the hope that our make-believe numbers will go up

[#00Buck]

3 hours ago, Pignog said:

all aspects of civilization must be sacrificed on the altar of the invisible hand, in the hope that our make-believe numbers will go up

This invisible hand...

Is it like "the stranger?"

[Rassah]

4 hours ago, Pignog said:

all aspects of civilization must be sacrificed on the altar of the invisible hand, in the hope that our make-believe numbers will go up

The goal in life is to get a high score. But you only have one life to do it with 

[WileyWarWeasel]

5 hours ago, Pignog said:

all aspects of civilization must be sacrificed on the altar of the invisible hand, in the hope that our make-believe numbers will go up

The invisible hand of the emperor guides all.

 

36 minutes ago, Rassah said:

The goal in life is to get a high score. But you only have one life to do it with 

The Zimbabweans will be tough to beat

 

[Endless/Nameless]

[Pignog]

keep the dream alive

[#00Buck]

2 hours ago, Pignog said:

keep the dream alive

New meet up soon. 

Cake and such. We will eat someone. 

Stay tuned for a community update!!!

[Endless/Nameless]

i just experienced my first timbits.

[Pignog]

27 minutes ago, Endless/Nameless said:

i just experienced my first timbits.

gomen nasai

[Zerig]

why is buck banned

who will post cakes now

@Pignog help

[Zeke]

8 minutes ago, Zerig said:

why is buck banned

who will post cakes now

@Pignog help

We still have you and Zara.

[Vitaly]

9 hours ago, Zerig said:

why is buck banned

It's just a profile picture. 

That's a shame

[Guest]

56 minutes ago, Vitaly said:

It's just a profile picture.

actually, active accounts prior to ban are edited with the red X and greyscaled. Its why red x avatars for anyone outside of those who are banned are against the rules. 

As to why he was banned? He just doesn't know how to let it go. That's all you gotta know. 

[Guest]

36 minutes ago, Zerig said:

thats good to know

I thought it'd be something crazy like overreacting and banning him for rumors

but that'd be silly

He sexually harassed multiple female members of the forums and we have 30+ pages of screenshots. We wouldn't be so petty as to ban for rumors without proper, over-the-course-of-several-weeks investigation. 

[Zaraphayx]

44 minutes ago, Zerig said:

thats good to know

I thought it'd be something crazy like overreacting and banning him for rumors

but that'd be silly

I spent pretty much the entire day as a third party, talking to people, collecting chat logs, and comparing stories for consistency.

This isn't rumors; you just don't know the details because it would be ridiculous to publicly post people's personal correspondences just for the sake of transparency.

Speaking as a guy who got thrown under the bus by staff power-tripping I'm telling you that there's no witch hunt here.

[Toshabi]

41 minutes ago, Sidewalk Surfboard said:

That explains why you guys were supposedly worried about me a while back.

Never trust the troll turned insta-pure. 

 

Lesson learned here kiddos. 

 

Unless it's Toshabi nice week. 

[Socketosis]

I'm not sure how far he stooped by just reading this thread, but uh, should I expect him to be on Creep Catchers soon?

[Gamedog]

POST

ICED

CAPPUCCINOS

TO MOURN

OUR LOSS

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

Ok, you guys are probably gonna laugh at me, but tonight I've decided to start earning Bitcoin as a small side thing. I'm not gonna be a big earner or anything, I just want to earn a little bit so I can spend it on things I like. I'm using btcclicks for this, since it's a pretty easy way to do it without my simple mind imploding.

[Fantasma]

6 hours ago, Sidewalk Surfboard said:

Ok, you guys are probably gonna laugh at me, but tonight I've decided to start earning Bitcoin as a small side thing. I'm not gonna be a big earner or anything, I just want to earn a little bit so I can spend it on things I like. I'm using btcclicks for this, since it's a pretty easy way to do it without my simple mind imploding.

It's not a terribly bad thing, you can use it on purse.io (go for 15% discount and prime shipping on everything) to get some stuff on amazon.

Plus since it will probably gain 10% a year it honestly isn't bad.

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

16 hours ago, Johanna Waya said:

It's not a terribly bad thing, you can use it on purse.io (go for 15% discount and prime shipping on everything) to get some stuff on amazon.

Plus since it will probably gain 10% a year it honestly isn't bad.

Well, I know it was quick, but I decided against bitcoin. There's just too much work involved in getting it, and I won't have time for it when I finally end up going back to school.

[Fantasma]

7 hours ago, Sidewalk Surfboard said:

Well, I know it was quick, but I decided against bitcoin. There's just too much work involved in getting it, and I won't have time for it when I finally end up going back to school.

Yeah, honestly small work for family members can be very rewarding financially, and you can turn it into bitcoin for savings. Just talk to rassah he makes it easy

[Rassah]

It's over $900 btw. Just saying.

[Wrecker]

10 minutes ago, Rassah said:

It's over $900 btw. Just saying.

I still have a funky feeling I've invested in something with a greater potential of return... Time will tell.

[WileyWarWeasel]

1 hour ago, Rassah said:

It's over $900 btw. Just saying.

Heh I should've suspected you'd mention it when I read the article about it the other day.

Don't forget to realize your winnings

[Revates]

7 hours ago, Rassah said:

It's over $900 btw. Just saying.

What's over $900? TIM HORTONS? THAT'S A RIPOFF!

[Rassah]

17 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

Don't forget to realize your winnings

I've just been spending it directly on groceries and Amazon stuff.

[WileyWarWeasel]

6 hours ago, Rassah said:

I've just been spending it directly on groceries and Amazon stuff.

Hahaha I forgot about your captioned images that you're so fond of

 

Quick question: if a company such as tesla is losing thousands of USD per product sold does it really matter whether these losses are expressed as US dollars, Canadian dollars, Yuan, Yen, Rubles, Bitcoins, Dogecoins, Rupees or some other currency?

 

Example losses from here: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/070116/tesla-losing-money-each-time-it-sells-car-tsla.asp

[Rassah]

On 12/24/2016 at 1:10 AM, WileyWarWeasel said:

Hahaha I forgot about your captioned images that you're so fond of

 

Quick question: if a company such as tesla is losing thousands of USD per product sold does it really matter whether these losses are expressed as US dollars, Canadian dollars, Yuan, Yen, Rubles, Bitcoins, Dogecoins, Rupees or some other currency?

 

Example losses from here: http://www.investopedia.com/articles/markets/070116/tesla-losing-money-each-time-it-sells-car-tsla.asp

Only matters in which currency they decide to pay tax in, if they do business in different countries, and which country would give them the biggest tax write-off on the loss. Some creative accounting could make most of the losses seem to happen in any international division.

[WileyWarWeasel]

6 hours ago, Rassah said:

Only matters in which currency they decide to pay tax in, if they do business in different countries, and which country would give them the biggest tax write-off on the loss. Some creative accounting could make most of the losses seem to happen in any international division.

My point was that a loss is a loss regardless of what currency it's expressed in, and since the world economy (& biosphere for that matter) is declining it matters little what currency it's expressed in. Bitcoins will not save you.

Still, good points on how to handle the loss.

[Rassah]

3 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

My point was that a loss is a loss regardless of what currency it's expressed in, and since the world economy (& biosphere for that matter) is declining it matters little what currency it's expressed in. Bitcoins will not save you.

Still, good points on how to handle the loss.

Typically wealth doesn't just disappear (other than on paper), it moves elsewhere. While wealth in Europe, China, and South America is shrinking, people are moving whatever they have saved up into other stores, those being US stocks (note the rise?), US dollars, and bitcoin. And actually Bitcoin is saving people in Venezuela with their hyperinflation, where people are moving money into Bitcoin to preserve wealth, and people outside of Venezuela are sending their family money using Bitcoin to help them, and saving people in India after India decided to make a lot of their cash illegal, by allowing those people to move their old illegal wealth cash into Bitcoin and back into legal cash (it's complicated). Both are contributors to the current price rise, as is China. So, as some currencies fall, others rise.

[WileyWarWeasel]

1 hour ago, Rassah said:

Typically wealth doesn't just disappear (other than on paper), it moves elsewhere.

You are partly correct. However the "wealth" that powers economies everywhere (energy and raw material) is dissipated and turned into waste over time. Some of the dissipated energy is radiated into space. Otherwise you're correct that it hasn't disappeared as such.

1 hour ago, Rassah said:

While wealth in Europe, China, and South America is shrinking, people are moving whatever they have saved up into other stores, those being US stocks (note the rise?), US dollars, and bitcoin.

US stocks are mostly rising due to companies buying back their own shares, the federal reserve's permanent open market operations & aptly named "plunge protection teams". US dollars and bitcoins are increasing in value due to others seeing them as safe havens. US dollars in particular are going up due to other significant economies (especially EU & China) continuing with various liquidity injections to keep their economies going.

The US Federal Reserve will likely have to inject significant liquidity into the US economy (particularly government bonds) which will devalue the dollar. Otherwise their exports will be less competitive than other countries and the government bond rates going up will continue to push up the costs of borrowing money elsewhere (such as in mortgage rates that we're currently seeing). Given that corporate profits have been going down since the end of 2014, the inventory-to-sales ratio is around GFC levels, overall energy usage decreased in 2015, and the Cass Freight Index has declined for 19 out of the past 20 months on a YoY basis the last thing one would want is for borrowing costs to go up.

 

1 hour ago, Rassah said:

And actually Bitcoin is saving people in Venezuela with their hyperinflation, where people are moving money into Bitcoin to preserve wealth, and people outside of Venezuela are sending their family money using Bitcoin to help them, and saving people in India after India decided to make a lot of their cash illegal, by allowing those people to move their old illegal wealth cash into Bitcoin and back into legal cash (it's complicated).

Your comment here seems to imply that the economic problems in these countries are caused by inappropriate currency usage. While I haven't looked at India much before their partial ban on cash & seizures of gold and jewelry I did check out Venezuela's situation before their massive currency devaluation. Venezuela's chief problem is that it is a commodities exporter (mostly heavy oil and some agriculture) with little foreign currency reserves that quickly crumbled after commodity prices dived across the board, in many cases below the cost of production.

Even if the entirety of Venezuela converted to bitcoin their problem of too low prices for their exports would still be there.

People sending foreign currency to families in failing countries is nothing new.

As for converting the banned notes into legal cash that's impossible at present; there simply aren't enough of the other cash notes available to replace the 500 and 1000 rupee notes, though they're doing what they can to get the new notes out. I'm assuming that what you're referring to is converting the physical cash into bitcoins and then into a different digital currency, which is what the central bank & government seem to want people to do anyway (converting to digital currency that is).

1 hour ago, Rassah said:

Both are contributors to the current price rise, as is China. So, as some currencies fall, others rise.

Currencies do indeed rise and fall, but just like in Venezuela the world economy is facing problems that go far beyond currency.

 

World GDP (even with imputations and other bullshit added to different countries GDP to them to make them sound as good as possible) declined at a faster rate during 2015 than during 2009 (and prior to that no recovery to previous growth pattern):

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.CD

Global merchandise exports declined almost as much during 2015 as they did during 2009 and even before that had very sluggish growth (no recovery to previous growth pattern):

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/TX.VAL.MRCH.CD.WT

Global capital & durable goods orders never recovered to the growth patterns before 2009 and have been in decline for a while:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-29/story-durable-goods-story-global-economy

 

New shipbuilding orders by compensated gross tonnage never recovered to pre-2009 levels and have almost ceased at around 10mil CGT for this year (graph is only couple of months out of date):

 

There's also plenty more major indicators but I think you get the idea. The data in the links is expressed as USD as that is the world reserve currency. If the world reserve currency was Euros or Yuan or bitcoins the trends would still be the same because at the end of the day currency is merely the expression of economic activity (or lack of).

[Rassah]

6 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

Your comment here seems to imply that the economic problems in these countries are caused by inappropriate currency usage.

No, I just meant that whatever caused it, currencies are now being severely screwed with, and people are escaping to Bitcoin to avoid all that screwing. Sore, people sending money to failing countries is nothing new, but it seems sending bitcoin is the most reliable way to get money into Venezuela now.

[WileyWarWeasel]

1 hour ago, Rassah said:

No, I just meant that whatever caused it, currencies are now being severely screwed with, and people are escaping to Bitcoin to avoid all that screwing. Sore, people sending money to failing countries is nothing new, but it seems sending bitcoin is the most reliable way to get money into Venezuela now.

I don't doubt that sending aid whether it's money in one form or another or actual supplies is helpful for the people that are there. My previous comments were more so directed to your image that claimed that some day one wouldn't have to convert to and from bitcoin, which implied that it would become a widespread or even reserve currency. Our economic system will fail long before that & bitcoin won't fix it was my point.

[AshleyAshes]

On 12/22/2016 at 11:57 PM, Rassah said:

It's over $900 btw. Just saying.

I find it weird that your exclusive metric for your 'favorite currency' is how much of a different currency it can buy.  While the US/Canada exchange rate is relevant to me as someone who shops internationally at times, when it comes to the Canadian dollar I primarily see it as how much home it can pay for, how much food it can buy, or how big of a television it can get me.  To even get me to tell you how much US currency I could buy with Canadian currency, I'd have to consult my phone first, because I rarely have to purchase things from the mindset of another currency to understand what my own currency is worth to me.

[Rassah]

10 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

I don't doubt that sending aid whether it's money in one form or another or actual supplies is helpful for the people that are there. My previous comments were more so directed to your image that claimed that some day one wouldn't have to convert to and from bitcoin, which implied that it would become a widespread or even reserve currency. Our economic system will fail long before that & bitcoin won't fix it was my point.

You can already use it to pay for things now. It's just time until more and more places start accepting it. Maybe it'll become a parallel currency people use, like "points" or something. Maybe it will take over. Who knows. I'm guessing it will take over in other countries first though.

[WileyWarWeasel]

2 hours ago, Rassah said:

You can already use it to pay for things now. It's just time until more and more places start accepting it. Maybe it'll become a parallel currency people use, like "points" or something. Maybe it will take over. Who knows. I'm guessing it will take over in other countries first though.

It had better get a move on if it's to become some parallel currency or take over then, the world economy ain't getting any better ;P

[Rassah]

Price is $1,025 now... If you had started investing just $100 a month every month two years ago when I first started telling people about it (even if you had to scrape really hard to come up with that $100), you would've had about $320,000 right now. Even if you could only afford $25 you would've still had $80,000.

[Saxon]

6 minutes ago, Rassah said:

Price is $1,025 now... If you had started investing just $100 a month every month two years ago when I first started telling people about it (even if you had to scrape really hard to come up with that $100), you would've had about $320,000 right now. Even if you could only afford $25 you would've still had $80,000.

You might be able to understand why people are reluctant to put their money into investments that are recommended to them over the internet, because that is usually how scams operate. We don't have the benefit of hindsight when we make our decisions, and you might be able to see why some users would find repeatedly being told to invest in things to be vexatious. 

[Rassah]

Sure. That's why you look into and research what is being recommended first. I've answered plenty of questions on this over many pages of debates, but I know some people still don't get it or have preconceived notions that's it's a scam and don't want to be proven wrong.

[Saxon]

8 minutes ago, Rassah said:

Sure. That's why you look into as research what is being recommended first. I've answered plenty of questions on this over many pages of debates, but I know some people still don't get it or have preconceived notions that's it's a scam and don't want to be proven wrong.

There is a big 'too good to be true' element and some unsettling prospects- we can't all invest in Bitcoin and all become millionaires.

It's being presented as a get rich quick without doing any work scheme, which is a classic scam.
 

[Rassah]

16 minutes ago, Saxon said:

There is a big 'too good to be true' element and some unsettling prospects- we can't all invest in Bitcoin and all become millionaires.

It's being presented as a get rich quick without doing any work scheme, which is a classic scam.

That's why people don't invest in stocks either. "You mean I can just put $100 into an S&P500 mutual fund, not think about it, and be a millionaire by the time I'm retired? Or a Small Cap company fund and retire early? What's the catch?!"

Yeah, this is just faster cause it has much more potential to grow than well established companies that can't go anywhere.

There's also the element of not trusting rich people (and general distain for the rich/1% promulgated by collectivist philosophy), which means that anyone who figures out how to get there becomes untrustworthy, and instead of others asking them how they did it, they become skeptical of all their claims (especially when the same philosophy spreads the idea that anyone with money only got there by taking it from others). Good way for the socialist leaders to keep the wealth divide nice and wide.

 

So, yeah, unfortunately I understand all of that. Just saying "I told you so" to no one in particular.

[Saxon]

2 minutes ago, Rassah said:

That's why people don't invest in stocks either. "You mean I can just put $100 into an S&P500 mutual fund, not think about it, and be a millionaire by the time I'm retired? Or a Small Cap company fund and retire early? What's the catch?!"

Yeah, this is just faster cause it had much more potential to grow than well established companies that can't go anywhere.

We can't all expect to put 100 dollars into stocks and become Millionaires. We can reasonably expect to put savings into stocks and make modest returns by subjecting our money to an acceptable level of risk over the long term.

I bet the real catch is that the wealth of a few lucky individuals is propped up by masses of scrubs losing small amounts of money to larger players. I get the feeling you are hear trying to persuade us because you think we are juicy scrubs ripe for the plucking. :\

[Rassah]

13 hours ago, Saxon said:

We can't all expect to put 100 dollars into stocks and become Millionaires.

Average long term rate of return on the overall stock market is 12%. That's basically S&P500, or any S&P mutual fund. Might go down some years, but up others, and averages out. That's really the safest investment, cause you are investing in the whole economy. If you invest once a month, that's 12% / 12 = 1% a month.

If you are 20 and plan to retire at 65, that's 65-20=45 years, or 45*12=540 months.

Go to http://www.investopedia.com/calculator/annuityfv.aspx

Enter 1% into the Interest rate per period, 540 for number of periods, and 100 for present value (that's the $100 you're putting in every month). Look at the result.

Becoming a millionaire is simple. It's not easy, because you have to force yourself to stick to it, you have to forgo some short term fun and luxuries, and you have to not fear the risks and the downs that might make you want to bail out. But it is simple.

 

[Toshabi]

[Saxon]

6 hours ago, Rassah said:

Average long term rate of return on the overall stock market is 12%. That's basically S&P500, or any S&P mutual fund. Might go down some years, but up others, and averages out. That's really the safest investment, cause you are investing in the whole economy. If you invest once a month, that's 12% / 12 = 1% a month.

If you are 20 and plan to retire at 65, that's 65-20=45 years, or 45*12=540 months.

Go to http://www.investopedia.com/calculator/annuityfv.aspx

Enter 1% into the Interest rate per period, 540 for number of periods, and 100 for present value (that's the $100 you're putting in every month). Look at the result.

Becoming a millionaire is simple. It's not easy, because you have to force yourself to stick to it, you have to forgo some short term fun and luxuries, and you have to not fear the risks and the downs that might make you want to bail out. But it is simple.

 

If everybody could become a millionaire by sticking 100 dollars in stocks and being brave (essentially ignore the stocks), then every company ever would be a successful million dollar company, because they'll all have access to financial advisors who know this apparent trick.

Furthermore, my Dad has some money in stocks and we've been talking about how we want to make sure the money I'm saving up gets a good interest rate. He didn't magically become a millionaire, so I think you're spinning a yarn.

Something gives, Rassah.

[Rassah]

4 hours ago, Saxon said:

If everybody could become a millionaire by sticking 100 dollars in stocks and being brave (essentially ignore the stocks), then every company ever would be a successful million dollar company, because they'll all have access to financial advisors who know this apparent trick.

Furthermore, my Dad has some money in stocks and we've been talking about how we want to make sure the money I'm saving up gets a good interest rate. He didn't magically become a millionaire, so I think you're spinning a yarn.

Something gives, Rassah.

S&P500 automatically reshuffles what stocks belong to it, dropping off failed companies and adding succeeding. Furthermore if "everyone" did this, the market would get a huge influx of capital, and businesses would be able to grow, expand, invest in R&D, and create new products much faster. Everyone would actually be able to win, with the overall economy growing rapidly, as opposed to this being just some winning at the expense of others. Really the only reason most people don't do this is because most people simply don't know about this, or think stock investing is hard and something only rich people on Wall Street are able to do. I used to be a personal financial advisor, and that's pretty much the reasons I got from people.

Regarding your dad, I don't know how much he invested every month, for how long, and into what stocks. It could be he picked something with a lot lower return, or started investing late so didn't invest for as long, or just invested too little.

My husband has been investing into his IRA into Vanguard Index Shares for years on my advice, and his 5 year return is 12.92% so far, with the overall return of 45%, which is pretty much on target. You can figure out what happened with your dad by just checking the historic return of his stocks (divide it by 12), how many months he has been investing (or years times 12), and how much he was investing every year, then stick that into the link I gave you and see if you get the same number.