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Attacks on Brussles


Caledonian
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Just going to throw out a few facts here:

  • Islamic cultures have been violent and nasty all through history.
  • You cannot compare the situation to Hitler and the holocaust because the Jews weren't killing people.
  • On the off-topic Christian Bible discussion, never try to mock our beliefs by throwing up Old Testament quotes because they are irrelevant. Jesus threw out the old Hebrew laws when he arrived. We really don't need the Old Testament; it's pretty much there for heritage's sake. 

I'll be following along. To all you out there who are affected by these attacks, I am so sorry; I have no idea what it must be like but it can't be fun. [suppoting you long-distance]

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2 minutes ago, Endless/Nameless said:

On the off-topic Christian Bible discussion, never try to mock our beliefs by throwing up Old Testament quotes because they are irrelevant. Jesus threw out the old Hebrew laws when he arrived. We really don't need the Old Testament; it's pretty much there for heritage's sake. 

You forgot to link the bible quote of Jesus doing that.

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4 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

> left: but... the christian crusades...

At least the crusades of the Christians have ended long ago and it's long gone in history. The Islamist extremists are doing it right now (in a bit different way but the effects are distinct) and people should do something about it

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18 minutes ago, Sir Gibby said:

But it was the entire point of Jesus and his teachings. If you're looking for a reference, it starts with the gospel of Matthew, I believe.

Except that the four main gospels were passed down orally before written in Greek way later after his death. it took the church a long time to agree that the writings were genuine before developing a new text for it.  I wouldn't say Jesus threw them out, but a lot of it was basically added in and revamped to fill and adjust gaps well into the 1st edition of the KJV. 

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@Gamedog @Sir Gibby and others have you considered that the violence that is witnessed within Muslim countries and by Muslim individuals is due to a variety of socio-historical factors?  I know it easier to attempt to paint these problems in a simple and clear manner, but such attempts do little to explain why the problem is really happening and does absolutely nothing to provide an adequate solution.  I know that I for one am not arguing that the problem of extremism and violence that plagues the Middle East does not exist, but to attempt to claim that the problem is caused primarily by their religion only serves to distract us from addressing the core issues here. 

Ending the violence caused by these extremists is something that we as a world seriously need to address.  I however do not believe that a solution will be achieved by simply trying to isolate these countries and people.  By refusing refugees the only thing we would accomplish is putting the problem out of sight and out of mind.  Seeing such violence and the populations that are fleeing from it should be a wake-up call to step up and do the right thing.  We should not instead use it as an excuse to push the problem underneath the rug and hide our heads in the sand.

Also just because the action will require sacrifice it does not free us of our moral obligation to save the lives of the many innocent people throughout the Middle East that will otherwise die at the hands of these very same groups that you claim to hate so much.

 

I don't really want to get into this other tangential argument, but do people really think that every Christian completely ignores the Old Testament?  I mean Young Earth Creationists are a thing and many of them are Christians that got their belief from a literal reading of the Book of Genesis.  Also in the United States there are a large number of attempts by Christian groups to get the Ten Commandments put in front of Courthouses and that is from the Book of Exodus.  Both of those books are Old Testament yet it seems that there are groups of Christians that attempt to make political and societal changes based on them.  I don't know why they would do that if they honestly believed that none of those books were relevant any more.

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6 minutes ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

@Gamedog @Sir Gibby and others have you considered that the violence that is witnessed within Muslim countries and by Muslim individuals is due to a variety of socio-historical factors?  I know it easier to attempt to paint these problems in a simple and clear manner, but such attempts do little to explain why the problem is really happening and does absolutely nothing to provide an adequate solution.  I know that I for one am not arguing that the problem of extremism and violence that plagues the Middle East does not exist, but to attempt to claim that the problem is caused primarily by their religion only serves to distract us from addressing the core issues here. 

Ending the violence caused by these extremists is something that we as a world seriously need to address.  I however do not believe that a solution will be achieved by simply trying to isolate these countries and people.  By refusing refugees the only thing we would accomplish is putting the problem out of sight and out of mind.  Seeing such violence and the populations that are fleeing from it should be a wake-up call to step up and do the right thing.  We should not instead use it as an excuse to push the problem underneath the rug and hide our heads in the sand.

Also just because the action will require sacrifice it does not free us of our moral obligation to save the lives of the many innocent people throughout the Middle East that will otherwise die at the hands of these very same groups that you claim to hate so much.

 

I don't really want to get into this other tangential argument, but do people really think that every Christian completely ignores the Old Testament?  I mean Young Earth Creationists are a thing and many of them are Christians that got their belief from a literal reading of the Book of Genesis.  Also in the United States there are a large number of attempts by Christian groups to get the Ten Commandments put in front of Courthouses and that is from the Book of Exodus.  Both of those books are Old Testament yet it seems that there are groups of Christians that attempt to make political and societal changes based on them.  I don't know why they would do that if they honestly believed that none of those books were relevant any more.

Except that most people here would agree that the middle east should be nuked from orbit.

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14 minutes ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

do people really think that every Christian completely ignores the Old Testament? 

Heh heh, of course not. Lotsa idiots out there.

14 minutes ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

I mean Young Earth Creationists are a thing and many of them are Christians that got their belief from a literal reading of the Book of Genesis.

I said the Hebrew law, which is contained in the Old Testament and is a major theme, was what was thrown out. I'm not saying we believe it's all fiction; it's that we don't follow the lifestyle described within. 

And creationists aren't all that bad. Who really gives a shit whether someone thinks the earth was created in an ice cream shop by a gorilla or by the festering of a roadkill?

minutes ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

in the United States there are a large number of attempts by Christian groups to get the Ten Commandments put in front of Courthouses and that is from the Book of Exodus.  Both of those books are Old Testament yet it seems that there are groups of Christians that attempt to make political and societal changes based on them.

That's just the old guard conservatives that somehow still believe that we can mix church and state. I don't support them.

Edited by Endless/Nameless
I fixeded de quotey methinks meby
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ITT everyone ignores the largest concentration of Muslims in the world (spoiler: not in the Mideast) in their efforts to blame Islam's very existence for radicalized nation-state terrorism, everyone ignores the Christian-on-Muslim wars in present-day sub-Saharan Africa or Christian-on-Christian terrorism in the British Isles just a few decades ago in their defense of Christianity as a religion of peace and tolerance, and no one says that maybe the gross failure of security intelligence everyone and his mother tried to warn Western governments about, without any regard to any religion's validity or lack thereof, could be why these attacks weren't prevented.

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3 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Except that most people here would agree that the middle east should be nuked from orbit.

I don't believe that anyone would seriously recommend that we nuke the entire Middle East.  The environmental fallout from such action would seriously damage the rest of the world, potentially ruining all of civilization as we know it, and I doubt they want that.  However if they want to argue that we should wipe an entire race and/or religion off the planet using some other means, well then I will just let them paint themselves into that corner on their own.

4 minutes ago, Endless/Nameless said:

And creationists aren't all that bad. Who really gives a shit whether someone thinks the earth was created in an ice cream shop by a gorilla or by the festering of a roadkill?

That is another discussion for another time, and as such I will go no further into it here, but when they actively attempt to force their beliefs into education I think its fairly clear how harmful such beliefs can be.

6 minutes ago, Endless/Nameless said:

That's just the old guard conservatives that somehow still believe that we can mix church and state. I don't support them.

Just because you as an individual don't support them doesn't mean they don't exist nor does it mean that they don't wield a scary amount of political influence.

7 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

ohhhh myyyy gooooddddd

As is typical, and sadly expected from you at this point, rather then seriously engage with an opposing arguments you cling to your personal beliefs and instead respond with incredulity at the mere idea of some one believing something, anything, else.

Also in before I am accused of defending terrorists because that is likely the next point Gamedog was going to make.

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1 minute ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

I

Also in before I am accused of defending terrorists because that is likely the next point Gamedog was going to make.

I've learned by now not to get into a discussion with you because you put your head in the sand and you always wear rose-coloured glasses. You think nothing is wrong with the world and there's nothing inherently wrong with this religion. Talking to you is a waste of my time. Shit, half the replies to other people in your latest post could be applied to Islam, but you're too oblivious to notice it.

 

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16 minutes ago, Endless/Nameless said:

Matthew chapters 5-7. 

lets move that to:

 

 

7 minutes ago, ArielMT said:

ITT everyone ignores the largest concentration of Muslims in the world (spoiler: not in the Mideast) in their efforts to blame Islam's very existence for radicalized nation-state terrorism, everyone ignores the Christian-on-Muslim wars in present-day sub-Saharan Africa or Christian-on-Christian terrorism in the British Isles just a few decades ago in their defense of Christianity as a religion of peace and tolerance, and no one says that maybe the gross failure of security intelligence everyone and his mother tried to warn Western governments about, without any regard to any religion's validity or lack thereof, could be why these attacks weren't prevented.

OH MY GOD! STOP MAKING SENSE!

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Just now, Derin Darkpaw said:

when they actively attempt to force their beliefs into education I think its fairly clear how harmful such beliefs can be.

3 minutes ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

Just because you as an individual don't support them doesn't mean they don't exist nor does it mean that they don't wield a scary amount of political influence.

Oh yes, we're so scary :v 

run johnny, the christies are coming to get u

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Just now, Gamedog said:

I've learned by now not to get into a discussion with you because you put your head in the sand and you always wear rose-coloured glasses. You think nothing is wrong with the world and there's nothing inherently wrong with this religion. Talking to you is a waste of my time. Shit, half the replies to other people in your latest post could be applied to Islam, but you're too oblivious to notice it.

 

How does this direct statement from myself

26 minutes ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

Ending the violence caused by these extremists is something that we as a world seriously need to address.

equate to me thinking there is nothing wrong?

That statement has two basic parts.  Part number one is directly stating that a problem exists and part number two says we need to do something about that problem.

So please elaborate how in any way you can get from that statement that I don't believe there is a problem.

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Look at people trying to shift the blame to Christians. 

Last week a muslim stabbed two soldiers in my neighbourhood at the army recruiting centre because "Allah told him to."

The most extreme thing Christians have done in my neighbourhood lately is have a bake sale to raise funds for starving kids in Africa. 

Focus people! Only one group is planning to kill you. The other one just wants to knit sweaters and sell delicious chocolate chip cookies. 

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...so this thread went exactly how I thought it would

 

also about the quotes. you have to click on the outermost border of the quote (it should be highlighted blue around the outside box) and then hit backspace to delete them. it's really hard to do on mobile

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Both extremes seem to have to wrong idea. I don't like it when Islam is treated with kids gloves, but I also don't like it when it's used as a scapegoat.

If someone perpetuates a culture of hatred and uses religion to justify acts of violence, they deserve all the hatred they get in return. Not because of religion, but because they're bad people.

Either way this is depressing news.

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51 minutes ago, Flake said:

Both extremes seem to have to wrong idea. I don't like it when Islam is treated with kids gloves, but I also don't like it when it's used as a scapegoat.

If someone perpetuates a culture of hatred and uses religion to justify acts of violence, they deserve all the hatred they get in return. Not because of religion, but because they're bad people.

Either way this is depressing news.

If people do suicide bombings in Brussels how is that making the religion a scapegoat?

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Quote

that's really heartless, 23 innocents died. 

Besides shrugging or uttering a massively half-assed, "I'm sorry that happened to those people!", I'm not sure what else you want me to say.

In this thread, we have the regulars ripping Islam an entirely new asshole, a person proclaiming boldly that Europe is on the brink of "war", and another poster making a legitimate case for "rational anger" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean). These posts are comparatively light on the xenophobic and irrational vitriol that you're typically greeted by on a YT video or news article that touches on a particular aspect of Europe's migrant crisis, but when you peruse the same knife-edge material each and every time one of these heinous attacks is brought to the immediate attention of this forum's user base, it starts to wear mightily on your capacity to tower resolute on the fighting side of Western civilization.

There's only so much /pol/ you can absorb before you begin to strongly contemplate your actual reasons for supporting Europe:

"Are you doing this because you feel it's the right thing to do?"

"Do the people you're cheering on for even care about your support?"

"Do you have anything at all--just one thing--to lose if Europe goes under?"

Across Europe, far-right parties with nationalistic messages have taken firm root and are succeeding in securing sweeping amounts of support from disgruntled Europeans whom are deeply disillusioned with the governments of their respective home countries. The far-right and I don't--and never will--jive well; nationalism isn't--and never will be--my thing.

Europe's deep-seated frustration and pronounced ire towards the refugees is entirely justified, but there is zero (0) reason for me--an individual who is not native to Europe nor who is white--to start waving Belgium's flag around except in an effort to try and garner "good boy" points from a collection of folks native to a continent in which I have no cultural, genetic (save for a shared species designation), or religious connection to whatsoever. Europe and the countries nestled therein are about as alien to me as Asia's Japan, China, or Singapore.  

Europe's diversity endemic is only going to roll in one political direction and that's a direction that I just can't go in.

At this point, Europe would be better off repositioning all refugees back to their original nations and withdrawing from the world scene entirely.

It's pitifully obvious that you all can't handle it.

 

 

 

Edited by I Did It For The Cat Girls
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9 minutes ago, I Did It For The Cat Girls said:

Besides shrugging or uttering a massively half-assed, "I'm sorry that happened to those people!", I'm not sure what else you want me to say.

In this thread, we have the regulars ripping Islam an entirely new asshole, a person proclaiming boldly that Europe is on the brink of "war", and another poster making a legitimate case for "rational anger" (whatever the hell that's supposed to mean). These posts are comparatively light on the xenophobic and irrational vitriol that you're typically greeted by on a YT video or news article that touches on a particular aspect of Europe's migrant crisis, but when you peruse the same knife-edge material each and every time one of these heinous attacks is brought to the immediate attention of this forum's user base, it starts to wear mightily on your capacity to tower resolute on the fighting side of Western civilization.

There's only so much /pol/ you can absorb before you begin to strongly contemplate your actual reasons for supporting Europe:

"Are you doing this because you feel it's the right thing to do?"

"Do the people you're cheering on for even care about your support?"

"Do you have anything at all--just one thing--to lose if Europe goes under?"

Across Europe, far-right parties with nationalistic messages have taken firm root and are succeeding in securing sweeping amounts of support from disgruntled Europeans whom are deeply disillusioned with the governments of their respective home countries. The far-right and I don't--and never will--jive well; nationalism isn't--and never will be--my thing.

Europe's deep-seated frustration and pronounced ire towards the refugees is entirely justified, but there is zero (0) reason for me--an individual who is not native to Europe nor who is white--to start waving Belgium's flag around except in an effort to try and garner "good boy" points from a collection of folks native to a continent in which I have no cultural, genetic (save for a shared species designation), or religious connection to whatsoever. Europe and the countries nestled therein are about as alien to me as Asia's Japan, China, or Singapore.  

Europe's diversity endemic is only going to roll in one political direction and that's a direction that I just can't go in.

At this point, Europe would be better off repositioning all refugees back to their original nations and withdrawing from the world scene entirely.

It's pitifully obvious that you all can't handle it.

 

 

 

This is the longest non-statement I've ever read. 

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Frankly, this makes me very angry.

 

We live in a world where there's an explosion in a country a few hundred miles away and it's neither shocking nor surprising.

People have died, people who have done nothing wrong to those who committed these acts have been killed in an awful way, injured and maimed and had their lives changed irreversibly and we're here talking about sensitivity.

The response will, for the most part be the usual. People will condemn the attacks. Draw a cartoon on twitter and get some back-patting from their followers.

Maybe they'll decry the "Racists" who are suggesting that maybe, just maybe, this happens too often.

And guess what? The next attack, people will do the same.

The next one too.

 

How much longer does this need to go on for before we start act seriously about these things?

The people who died today are the victims of an experiment in culture that is long past being called a failure.

 

Now, I have no venom for the Islamic family down the road that minds their own business and generally is content to be part of the community.

But, I live in a country that has boroughs that are 70% Islamic in which extremism is rife.

Islam is too dangerous. Where it goes, these attacks follow, and whilst I understand there are many innocent people in the community and it's awful to blame them, the act of doing so is not more awful than the deaths of those that have died because of this religion.

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15 minutes ago, I Did It For The Cat Girls said:

Just like 3/4ths of your posts on this forum lol.

My posts are short.

Far more efficient than yours. 

18 minutes ago, Cingal said:

Frankly, this makes me very angry.

 

We live in a world where there's an explosion in a country a few hundred miles away and it's neither shocking nor surprising.

People have died, people who have done nothing wrong to those who committed these acts have been killed in an awful way, injured and maimed and had their lives changed irreversibly and we're here talking about sensitivity.

The response will, for the most part be the usual. People will condemn the attacks. Draw a cartoon on twitter and get some back-patting from their followers.

Maybe they'll decry the "Racists" who are suggesting that maybe, just maybe, this happens too often.

And guess what? The next attack, people will do the same.

The next one too.

 

How much longer does this need to go on for before we start act seriously about these things?

The people who died today are the victims of an experiment in culture that is long past being called a failure.

 

Now, I have no venom for the Islamic family down the road that minds their own business and generally is content to be part of the community.

But, I live in a country that has boroughs that are 70% Islamic in which extremism is rife.

Islam is too dangerous. Where it goes, these attacks follow, and whilst I understand there are many innocent people in the community and it's awful to blame them, the act of doing so is not more awful than the deaths of those that have died because of this religion.

See? This is where the rational anger would come in.

People need the emotional motivation to do something to combat this rapidly growing problems that most people are happy to ignore. 

Edited by #00Buck
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16 hours ago, DrDingo said:

They're like children with burning desires to get the last cheeky word in so they can feel they won the argument.

Funny, I thought that described humanity in general. Trying to get the last cheeky word in, whether in arguments or war.

 

10 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Criticising this barbaric, inherently dangerous religion

Barbaric, inherently dangerous religion? We're talking about Christianity, right?

 

10 hours ago, LazerMaster5 said:

Holy shit, this thread is a mess.

It's old-FAF, what do you expect? There's also a lot of bigoted fucks in this forum....

 

10 hours ago, Gamedog said:

if there's only islamic terrorists" and not "christian terrorists" or "buddhist terrorists", wouldn't that mean there's a problem with Islam?

Why is it always muslims killing in the name of Islam who are the culprits of these attacks?
How can you stil refuse to see the connection?

Christian Terrorists, to name a couple:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord's_Resistance_Army
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_Republican_Army

Buddhist terrorism:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/969_Movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhism_and_violence

8 hours ago, Sir Gibby said:

As an aside, I like how liberals scan the bible for quotes to paint Christians as just as bad as Islam but always find stuff from the Old Testament that the Christian mainstream doesn't follow. They follow the New Testament, most famous for its story and discussion of Christ.

Bahahahahahahahahahaha.

You mean the way CHRISTIANS use the Old Testament to justify hate towards homosexuals? If they never followed the Old Testament, why do they constantly quote Leviticus and Sodom and Gomorrah when they're condemning gays? Hmm?

Edited by Crazy Lee
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58 minutes ago, Crazy Lee said:

Barbaric, inherently dangerous religion? We're talking about Christianity, right?

>Another person indirectly citing the crusades from hundreds of years ago

I don't think I need to tell you this as I'm sure you're reminded often enough but...

5754703_b14a92aabd26d881cf966b96f0e7ee73

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2 minutes ago, willow said:

how though?

Read his post, along with every other post by terrorism-defenders citing the old testament and the crusades

 

"You mean the way CHRISTIANS use the Old Testament to justify hate towards homosexuals? If they never followed the Old Testament, why do they constantly quote Leviticus and Sodom and Gomorrah when they're condemning gays? Hmm?"

 

1448182079254.png

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Just now, Gamedog said:

Read his post, along with every other post by terrorism-defenders citing the old testament and the crusades

 

"You mean the way CHRISTIANS use the Old Testament to justify hate towards homosexuals? If they never followed the Old Testament, why do they constantly quote Leviticus and Sodom and Gomorrah when they're condemning gays? Hmm?"

 

yeah I've read through pretty much every post in the thread at least twice. no one's really defending the terrorism, rather trying to point out that you're making some pretty big generalizations. still not exactly seeing where the implication of the Crusades was either

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20 minutes ago, willow said:

yeah I've read through pretty much every post in the thread at least twice. no one's really defending the terrorism, rather trying to point out that you're making some pretty big generalizations. still not exactly seeing where the implication of the Crusades was either

I cant believe im gonna have to go through and quote it all for you

i better get paid for this.

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2 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

I cant believe im gonna have to go through and quote it all for you

i better get paid for this.

too lazy to find actual numbers for immigration, but willing to cite every example of your idea of "defending terrorism" which is likely just going to be any person who doesn't say that Islam is radical, isn't it?

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18 minutes ago, willow said:

yeah I've read through pretty much every post in the thread at least twice. no one's really defending the terrorism, rather trying to point out that you're making some pretty big generalizations. still not exactly seeing where the implication of the Crusades was either

The Lord's Resistance Army and the IRA are from the Middle Ages, donchano. :V

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13 hours ago, Caledonian said:

You realize Christians have done this too... and don't ever think atheists are all so innocent. They're fairly new so they didn't have time to start wars....yet.

It's starting to sound like a hitler speech, only 'jew' is replaced with 'Muslim'

There, i said it 

 

13 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Christians did it during the crusades 

your argument is invalid

nice hitler ref

 

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11 hours ago, Saxon said:

 

In the early 20th century women in Ireland who gave birth out of wedlock used to be deprived of their babies and systematically sent to nunneries and work houses to atone for their misdeeds in the name of god, as sanctioned by the Catholic church.

 

10 hours ago, Toboe said:

 

9 hours ago, #00Buck said:

You got to love how the apologists try to rewind the argument to 2000 years ago. 

Let's talk about what happened today! That is what is relevant! 

 

 

10 hours ago, Sir Gibby said:

That's from the Old Testament, based primarily on the Hebrew Bible.

As an aside, I like how liberals scan the bible for quotes to paint Christians as just as bad as Islam but always find stuff from the Old Testament that the Christian mainstream doesn't follow. They follow the New Testament, most famous for its story and discussion of Christ.

 

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