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Star Fox Zero


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Just now, Imperial Impact said:

 

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That's still not shitty.

Like I'm not one of those people who jerk it to Star Fox porn or something, and I'm generally not huge on Metacritic. But an average score of 72 isn't great, but it's by no means shitty unless we're going back to the whole "anything less than 8 means it's shit" mentality.

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10 minutes ago, PastryOfApathy said:

That's still not shitty.

Like I'm not one of those people who jerk it to Star Fox porn or something, and I'm generally not huge on Metacritic. But an average score of 72 isn't great, but it's by no means shitty unless we're going back to the whole "anything less than 8 means it's shit" mentality.

The score isn't so shitty, It's the reason.

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I haven't read any of the reviews yet, but I have seen people complaining about the reviews. Something I've heard, and something that makes sense to me, is that game reviewers are so busy going through tons of games, that they don't really have the time to learn controls. So something with complicated controls isn't going to do well because it's an extra barrier for people who just want to get through the game and have instant gratification. It's a legitimate complaint, but it's not going to be much of a factor for people who let themselves get really immersed into the game.

 

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16 minutes ago, SirRob said:

I haven't read any of the reviews yet, but I have seen people complaining about the reviews. Something I've heard, and something that makes sense to me, is that game reviewers are so busy going through tons of games, that they don't really have the time to learn controls. So something with complicated controls isn't going to do well because it's an extra barrier for people who just want to get through the game and have instant gratification. It's a legitimate complaint, but it's not going to be much of a factor for people who let themselves get really immersed into the game.

 

that and you can 100% the game in 3 hours.

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27 minutes ago, Imperial Impact said:

that and you can 100% the game in 3 hours.

It's the sort of game where you repeat levels over again to get better scores. Not necessarily a bad thing, since it also means that it wasn't packed with 90% filler. Probably would've benefited from an online competitive mode though, to boost replay value.

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2 hours ago, PastryOfApathy said:

It is a flaw in like every Star Fox game yes.

I wouldn't even call that a flaw for some of the games since it's arcade in it's roots. If the core game can keep you coming back, that's all that matters. I've clocked several hundred hours on games that take 50 minutes to complete your first run. (EDIT: Rob gets it)

As for reviews:

#1 Metacritic. Don't ever take them seriously.

#2 Pick and choose what reasons resonate with you to pass a game. A reviewer's opinion on what makes a good game might not jive with you. If for example someone gave it a 5/10 saying the gameplay was good but the plot was shit (not saying anyone did), I'd say whatever and get the game anyway.

Sadly a lot of people will look at the number and not even read the reviews. And even worse, yeah Pastry, 7/10 is bad to people for some inexplicable reason. Remember the people who flipped out because IGN gave Pokemon a 7/10? We never left those days. 

#3 Fuck reviews anyway. I'm gonna enjoy this game even with it's shit controls.

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15 minutes ago, XoPachi said:

I wouldn't even call that a flaw for some of the games since it's arcade in it's roots. If the core game can keep you coming back, that's all that matters. I've clocked several hundred hours on games that take 50 minutes to complete your first run. (EDIT: Rob gets it)

I get you and I agree. But I'd personally wish it was cheaper in that case.

16 minutes ago, XoPachi said:

#1 Metacritic. Don't ever take them seriously.

Oh yeah, I hate metacritic for a variety of reasons. But you were the one who cited it first.

16 minutes ago, XoPachi said:

#2 Pick and choose what reasons resonate with you to pass a game. A reviewer's opinion on what makes a good game might not jive with you. If for example someone gave it a 5/10 saying the gameplay was good but the plot was shit (not saying anyone did), I'd say whatever and get the game anyway.

Sadly a lot of people will look at the number and not even read the reviews. And even worse, yeah Pastry, 7/10 is bad to people for some inexplicable reason. Remember the people who flipped out because IGN gave Pokemon a 7/10? We never left those days. 

Of course, I'm just saying the reviews in general didn't imply the game was "shitty".

I remember years ago when Game Informer used to say in it's review guide that a 5 was "irredeemable" or something like that. I personally like how Destructoid does it personally.

17 minutes ago, XoPachi said:

#3 Fuck reviews anyway. I'm gonna enjoy this game even with it's shit controls.

 

Amen.

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Guys...guys

did you forget its a retcon to the series thus like 64 to the first Starfox: "We gonna try this again to build up the series"

or as my friend say: "remember when they HD Starfox 64? Its like that...again...you dont feed someone the same thing twice in a row despite that it seems everyone just wants StarFox 64 all the time"

I can understand they trying to get the series back on its feet so I'm just wondering: "What can they do next" and I and my friend say "finally give us starfox 2? Perhaps actually looking at the other starfox games other than Starfox2 and pulling ideas from those and improving em? NOT visiting Dinosaur planet again?"

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Annoyingly enough I'm in the middle of a work week, so I'm not sure when I'll feel not-tired enough to give it a shot. 

I really hope it's enjoyable. All I wanted is a nice spaceship shooty game. If I get that I'm happy. 

6 hours ago, XoPachi said:

Endless said on a previous page that the game was $50 right? 

It was when I preordered it. I'm not sure about now. 

Oh, and that was digital btw

Edited by Endless/Nameless
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9 hours ago, Deskai said:

Guys...guys

did you forget its a retcon to the series thus like 64 to the first Starfox: "We gonna try this again to build up the series"

or as my friend say: "remember when they HD Starfox 64? Its like that...again...you dont feed someone the same thing twice in a row despite that it seems everyone just wants StarFox 64 all the time"

I can understand they trying to get the series back on its feet so I'm just wondering: "What can they do next" and I and my friend say "finally give us starfox 2? Perhaps actually looking at the other starfox games other than Starfox2 and pulling ideas from those and improving em? NOT visiting Dinosaur planet again?"

The game's mechanics are new. No one's worried about it reusing plot.

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Because they're giving us nothing that's REALLY new. I mean how long a series lay dormant before you try to out do the past games? It sound like Star Fox Zero plays it safer than Command and has less content. Do a reboot, sure. I'll take it! Make it worth it though. Reboot it for the better. I'm coming off of Ratchet and Clank the like 14th game overall and it's reboot feels great and worth it to me. 3 hours of almost the same shit we had 19 year ago with new control scheme, that most people dislike, feels like an insult for full price.

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I'm really starting to turn around on how I feel about Miyamoto. After he threw away any hope for the future of Paper Mario and this supposedly flaccid attempt to reboot Starfox. I kinda wish they had just shoved him in a broom closet because now I'm going to worry about how he's going to screw up anything besides Pikmin games.

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That's a tall order demanding something 100% original and not appreciating something that might be done well even if it's an old concept. Not every game is innovative. I mean, StarFox was going to be flying regardless. As long as it's engaging, that's what matters, right? And the three times they tried something new, everyone hated it. Everyone hates Assault, Adventures, and Command, then complained when the series went on it's near decade hiatus (I don't literally mean everyone). 

But I will give you that the controls are a pain and I really don't understand why this article is a completely different story. I'll be trying the game myself tomorrow to form my own opinion, but my friend who just got it told me that the gyro controls are awkward and a constant frustration with no option for another control setup. I don't think that's fair. I am really hoping to enjoy it. 10 years and controls ruin a game I was hyped for. I'm not trying to deal with that. I heard the Landmaster is especially bad which is ridiculous to me. :c

EDIT: Miyamoto's a massive influence and probably console gaming's most important figure, but I think he needs to stop being set in his ways. 

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I would be more willing to except the lack of originality if the game were longer honestly. I'm not asking for a 10 hour long setpiece-to-setpiece experience, but 3 hours? Even for a budget game that's pretty skimp. There's no reason they couldn't have fleshed it out more. I would have waited longer But for the price they're asking it better be damn repayable... and it isn't... according to the previews. : /

And for the miyamoto thought, yes his legacy is unbreakable, but modern Miyamoto just doesn't seem to have it anymore.

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1 hour ago, Luca said:

Because they're giving us nothing that's REALLY new. I mean how long a series lay dormant before you try to out do the past games? 

I think Nintendo made this as a kind of palate cleanser after the shitty sequels, and if it does well they'll probly start work on something more ambitious. 

Although... That still doesn't explain the weird controls. I'm betting this will be like Mario Maker where they issue an update soon after release to shut everybody up. 

Edited by Endless/Nameless
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Miyamoto focuses more on how you play a game, rather than the aesthetics of a game, or its plot or anything like that. I think that's a healthy philosphy to have when developing a game. He cares less about giving people what they want, and focuses more on gameplay innovation, regardless of whether it's successful. He focuses on the aspects that makes a game, a game, rather than a world. I can see why the lack of focus on plot and world building would make fans angry, especially ones who grew up with those worlds that Nintendo created, but I don't think Miyamoto's a bad developer because of that.

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I don't think Miyamoto needs to stop making games, but going against very grounded traditions (especially for controls, come on) just because "innovation" is well...you see the reaction. And not to sling shade at you, but it seems like Miyamoto is the only one who gets that pass and I don't get it. Other games/hardware are forgotten or -shunned- when they try what he does. We say "never do that again", "this is terrible", and the games are laughed into obscurity 

It's nice to try to be innovative, but if it fails, he's not above criticism. Personally, if they make a new one, I hope they go back to a basic control scheme. Actually no, not even. If he wants gyro controls, cool. But what about options? We have 4 different controllers for the console. Splatoon even lets you turn off motion controls.

This is why I appreciate Sakurai so much. He considers the varied preferences of his fans rather than try to force them to like something he knows they don't. So he offers options in his games. 

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34 minutes ago, XoPachi said:

I don't think Miyamoto needs to stop making games, but going against very grounded traditions (especially for controls, come on) just because "innovation" is well...you see the reaction. And not to sling shade at you, but it seems like Miyamoto is the only one who gets that pass and I don't get it. Other games/hardware are forgotten or -shunned- when they try what he does. We say "never do that again", "this is terrible", and the games are laughed into obscurity 

It's nice to try to be innovative, but if it fails, he's not above criticism. Personally, if they make a new one, I hope they go back to a basic control scheme. Actually no, not even. If he wants gyro controls, cool. But what about options? We have 4 different controllers for the console. Splatoon even lets you turn off motion controls.

This is why I appreciate Sakurai so much. He considers the varied preferences of his fans rather than try to force them to like something he knows they don't. So he offers options in his games. 

Well, it's because Miyamoto has that unique position, that he SHOULD keep doing what he's doing! Because no one else would be able to do that! It helps keep the game industry from becoming stagnant, predictable and boring.

I completely agree with what you say about Sakurai though. He makes compromises with his vision and what the fans want. Smash Tour is what he said he wanted Smash to be, but he understands the fanbase and the game was better for it.

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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA boy, am I laughing now.

You CAN play the game just like the N64 version. Just don't use the motion controls. 
Hit START and toggle off "motion controls always on" and you're good to go. 
Other than that all you've got to do is get used to some remapped buttons. 
Just prepare to enraged by Peppy telling you to look at the goddamn gamepad every two seconds (he gets pissed at you too). It's the new "Do a barrel roll!"

My opinion? The game is pretty damn cool. =D
I only played through the Corneria stage but it was awesome. Even my dad had to stop at look.
The copilots are as sassy as ever. Yelling at Peppy to shut up and telling Falco to fuck off is sheer angry joy. 
I finally have my fun little spaceship shooty game.

(I know i said i wasn't going to play it for a few days but i got a burst of energy and went with it)

EDIT: Ok, I played through it a little more, and apparently there actually are some parts that force you to use the motion controls... This is disappointing, but at least you can play the old way the rest of the time. And I'm getting used to the controls fast.

Edited by Endless/Nameless
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1 hour ago, SirRob said:

Well, it's because Miyamoto has that unique position, that he SHOULD keep doing what he's doing! Because no one else would be able to do that! It helps keep the game industry from becoming stagnant, predictable and boring.

Thats...kind of a terrible thing to say. Like that tacitly puts down the work of hundreds of other successful devs, indie and AAA, that make unique titles and can even outclass current Nintendo blockbusters. 

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Just finished my first playthrough. Can confirm that the controls can be awkward at times especially in heated moments, and it's an even bigger problem if you're the type of gamer who likes to kick back and play a game in a lazy position (like myself). Boss battles are a bitch for this reason, and having to learn so many controls in so little time for different vehicles can be overwhelming during the first playthrough.

That aside, the game is gorgeous and the voice acting is great (the exchange between Slippy and Falco during the Fortuna boss battle had me cracking up; Andross truly sounds like an evil motherfucker). Definitely fun and reminiscent of Star Fox 64 with more meat, though some parts are hard to chew on. I wouldn't say it's BETTER than Star Fox 64 just yet. Maybe I'll have a better opinion after my second or third playthrough, but so far, I am satisfied. 

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28 minutes ago, XoPachi said:

Thats...kind of a terrible thing to say. Like that tacitly puts down the work of hundreds of other successful devs, indie and AAA, that make unique titles and can even outclass current Nintendo blockbusters. 

If you choose to read it like that, sure. I said 'no one else', because you said 'he's the only one'. He's in a unique position where he can share his ideas freely with a huge audience.

Of course other people are innovating, like the people making the Oculus Rift. But it's clear that consumers tend to gravitate towards what they know they like, and that encourages the bulk of the game industry to produce more of the same. 

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I'm just gonna pop in and say this, since you're talking about ol' Shiggs Mopone.

It goes without saying that he was responsible for shaping Nintendo into what they are.  It was his Donkey Kong that really put them on the map, and it was his Super Mario Bros that made Nintendo a household name.  On the same token, it was his insistence on the N64's weird architecture so that Mario 64 came out just right, but alienated the entire video game industry from them, making them run to the PlayStation.  The Wii and Wii U are both his ideas for how consoles should be made, which is strange considering the NES and SNES, without a doubt Nintendo's most significant machines, were designed by Tatsuya Uemura, an engineer that used to work for Sharp.  The PS1, the console that dethroned Nintendo, was designed by Ken Kutaragi, one of Sony's chief engineers.  Designers should stay away from hardware.

The guy is a double edged sword, and from what we're seeing, he's swinging back at Nintendo.  And from the looks of it, Nintendo is better off without him, see Splatoon being a huge hit without his involvement.  Hell, if he was involved, they were going to make it into a Mario spinoff!  Carry on.

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9 minutes ago, major lee snake said:

I'm just gonna pop in and say this, since you're talking about ol' Shiggs Mopone.

It goes without saying that he was responsible for shaping Nintendo into what they are.  It was his Donkey Kong that really put them on the map, and it was his Super Mario Bros that made Nintendo a household name.  On the same token, it was his insistence on the N64's weird architecture so that Mario 64 came out just right, but alienated the entire video game industry from them, making them run to the PlayStation.  The Wii and Wii U are both his ideas for how consoles should be made, which is strange considering the NES and SNES, without a doubt Nintendo's most significant machines, were designed by Tatsuya Uemura, an engineer that used to work for Sharp.  The PS1, the console that dethroned Nintendo, was designed by Ken Kutaragi, one of Sony's chief engineers.  Designers should stay away from hardware.

The guy is a double edged sword, and from what we're seeing, he's swinging back at Nintendo.  And from the looks of it, Nintendo is better off without him, see Splatoon being a huge hit without his involvement.  Hell, if he was involved, they were going to make it into a Mario spinoff!  Carry on.

Even though I like Miyamoto, I gotta admit you make some really good points. He should probably hang back a bit more.

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On 2016-04-19 at 7:35 PM, Deskai said:

but they arent that polar opposite
Both are still mercenaries for hire, they only fought in Starfox 64 cause andross hired StarWolf, and in Assault they only fought again cause Starfox was attacking their hideout/base of operations.

heck, StarFox commands show that Starwolf can do what StarFox does and in one ending they were the heroes instead...

If polar opposites as in they are rival mercenary groups then sure

 

I guess I would rather have more development and learning on the characters overall maybe, but that's Nintendo and Nintendo cant really do character development.

it would be a cool game if space manimal hannibal hired fox's mercenary band to help him invade space furry rome. think of all the tough moral choices fox would have to make~~~

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39 minutes ago, Pignog said:

it would be a cool game if space manimal hannibal hired fox's mercenary band to help him invade space furry rome. think of all the tough moral choices fox would have to make~~~

Or as my friend say "or just pay them to do NOTHING"

which wouldnt really happen cause "we know the general" for Starfox, which means Cornerian government just had to hire also StarWolf and pay them to do "nothing"

I'm gonna miss having your game score being how much the Cornerian government owe you

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15 hours ago, SirRob said:

Well, it's because Miyamoto has that unique position, that he SHOULD keep doing what he's doing! Because no one else would be able to do that! It helps keep the game industry from becoming stagnant, predictable and boring.

YEAH, BECAUSE GAMES LIKE SKYWARD SWORD AND MODERN MARIO RPGS ARE JUST OOZING WITH CREATIVITY & FUN!

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That console that Falco was playing, I wonder if that's a leak for Nintendo's codename NX? :P  Looks to be a handheld/console hybrid, and kinda reminds me of the nVidia shield.

That said, the fact that everyone appears to be animated in 3D, then rendered at a low, anime-esque framerate bothers me.

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On the topic of the controls, here's the thing. They really do bring gameplay improvements, such as being able to aim at something without flying straight at it. But the problem is they to focus on it WAYYY too much. They could have just said "Hey, you can aim like this now if you want" and people would have eaten it up. But instead it's "Here, use this! Use it here! No, you HAVE to try it!! Here's another slightly useful feature! Now you can look at two different screens! Heres a new gameplay element you'll be forced to use at our desire! WERE GONNA HAVE SO MUCH FUN!!" It really takes away from the pick-up-and-go nature of the snes/n64 versions. 

That said, I'm still having a blast playing it. It's not as terrible as you've been led to believe. 

22 hours ago, Luca said:

I would be more willing to except the lack of originality if the game were longer honestly. I'm not asking for a 10 hour long setpiece-to-setpiece experience, but 3 hours? Even for a budget game that's pretty skimp.

I personally would never want a Star Fox game that's longer than 3 hours or so. It's supposed to be a game that you can just plop down and blaze thru for fun when you're in the mood; not a Zelda game you spend hours and hours on picking thru layers of gameplay.

Star Fox 64 was wayyyy more bare-bones than Zero is.

1 hour ago, major lee snake said:

That said, the fact that everyone appears to be animated in 3D, then rendered at a low, anime-esque framerate bothers me.

Ugh, I wanted to puke. 

Shoulda just made it straight-up anime or something. 

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