All these new mods

[Zaraphayx]

People keep toting out this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" talking point about moderation and I think you've all completely lost the mark.

It's not that certain people want the moderators to do nothing and other people want them to do everything, it's that the moderators consistently do nothing when they should do something and consistently do something when they should do nothing that draws ire from both sides of the fence at the respective times.

Then you casually fall back on the "well I can either ban everyone for harmless shit or I could just excuse Sexual Harassment: The Thread, which is it guys???" rhetoric which is frustrating to everyone involved who has a functioning brain.

I know that criticizing the moderators at all is literally the worst kind of personal attack, but with Lemon gone not a single one of you has any experience or expertise in community management or leadership and you should stop getting defensive, tone policing, and rationalizing away your actions when they cause unexpected unrest.

[Spot]

1 hour ago, 6tails said:

I'm not seeing much in the way of thread derailing, just natural progression.

Sure about that? I saw two (or maybe three) rule violations on the last page that was attempted twice, and the mods still haven't addressed it. 

Again, a clear indication that something is broken in terms of leadership.

55 minutes ago, willow said:

I really need to go to bed but I'll say this before I go:

if we want to actually hammer out a legitimate vision for these forums, it needs to be done without the insults and snide comments. we also need to think about what we're willing to sacrifice in order to actually have a forum rather than a cesspit. because that's kind of the thing that hinders progress. people want all the things they liked about the old FAF and want to emulate them here, but also want this place to be its own entity and have some semblance of order.

somewhere in that equation, something has to go. if it means setting boundaries or whatever then so be it.

and I'll probably put up a post about electing new mods later today, but it's almost 2 in the morning and I need to sleep.

Sounds good to me. But it might pay to leave the ways of old in the past. 

[Zaraphayx]

Also here's an example of sensible "boundaries"

It should be against the rules to say that you want to manhandle a stranger's chest.

Glad we had this talk, robots.

[PastryOfApathy]

lol drama

[Endless/Nameless]

Lol look at you all having a bad time

[Terminal7]

You'll never get past this with this attitude, wanting to be critical about things you know nothing about : only a myth that was orally passed down that changes from ear to ear.

I don't even understand why you feel the need to test mods when they can tell when you've decided to quiz them. Do you want them to be perfect, omnipotent beings? Or human just like you and I?

Your compass is broken. 

[Zaraphayx]

27 minutes ago, Terminal7 said:

You'll never get past this with this attitude, wanting to be critical about things you know nothing about : only a myth that was orally passed down that changes from ear to ear.

I don't even understand why you feel the need to test mods when they can tell when you've decided to quiz them. Do you want them to be perfect, omnipotent beings? Or human just like you and I?

Your compass is broken. 

As a perfect omnipotent being I pride myself on my consistency, and would find it inconsistent to not apply my standards for myself universally to others.

[Cingal]

"We want to change the forum and it means doing stuff that not a lot of people want right now".

 

 

I think you're moderating the wrong forum.

 

[willow]

4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Sure about that? I saw two (or maybe three) rule violations on the last page that was attempted twice, and the mods still haven't addressed it. 

that's what the report button's for

[Dr. Doggo]

mods r fagots

[#00Buck]

5 hours ago, Zaraphayx said:

People keep toting out this "damned if you do, damned if you don't" talking point about moderation and I think you've all completely lost the mark.

It's not that certain people want the moderators to do nothing and other people want them to do everything, it's that the moderators consistently do nothing when they should do something and consistently do something when they should do nothing that draws ire from both sides of the fence at the respective times.

Then you casually fall back on the "well I can either ban everyone for harmless shit or I could just excuse Sexual Harassment: The Thread, which is it guys???" rhetoric which is frustrating to everyone involved who has a functioning brain.

I know that criticizing the moderators at all is literally the worst kind of personal attack, but with Lemon gone not a single one of you has any experience or expertise in community management or leadership and you should stop getting defensive, tone policing, and rationalizing away your actions when they cause unexpected unrest.

Bot spam just sits on the forum. 

Yet when I post a thread in the water cooler it is instantly moved to the black hole?

Zara nailed it. 

7 hours ago, Mentova said:

No we never had, and never will, have an election for new mods. That would turn into a popularity contest and this place would go deeper into hell than it already is :V

I think before when this place first got put together we had a "are you ok with the old mods returning?" question or something? Maybe? My memory is shit.

Yeah why use democracy?

Such a terrible way of selecting qualified people. 

The best thing is to let people who have been accused of doing a bad job select people who are their best friends to be in positions of power. 

[#00Buck]

8 hours ago, Mentova said:

I mean I just said that we're most likely going to bring more people in to replace the person lost. We can't bring anyone in at the moment since one of the mods is on vacation and can't give their input. What more do you want?

I like how this all hangs on one person who is away on vacation. 

Meanwhile the over 700 members of the forum have no say in this process?

I think the forum members are capable of picking who they think would be qualified to moderate the forum. 

[Toboe]

8 minutes ago, #00Buck said:

Bot spam just sits on the forum. 

Yet when I post a thread in the water cooler it is instantly moved to the black hole?

Considering the quality of your posts: Justified.

But seriously: How long did the spam stay?

[#00Buck]

3 minutes ago, Toboe said:

Considering the quality of your posts: Justified.

But seriously: How long did the spam stay?

Not justified at all. 

I've told the mods when they have moved the threads to change the title of the water cooler section.

According to the title it is the everything and anything discussion forum. 

Either change the name or stop moving my threads. 

[Guest]

So let me get this straight, just because Vae, Fleece and Brazen are OFFUNDUD by the topic at hand, nobody else can have fun with it and it must be shut down? Fleece and Brazen, you happily participated at the start. Vae and Evan didn't have a problem with it either in the beginning. Now you make a complete 180 and accuse us of being sexual harassers...? What the hell happened? Change of hearts? Now all of a sudden you're against it. Integrity, you don't have it. I mean, it's COMPLETELY fine that you want to opt yourself out but I see plenty of snide insinuations being made, mostly those depicting us as sexual harassers. If you think this is sexual harassment you have no idea what it really is. HELP HELP I'M BEING RAPED. Online... Do you have any idea how ridiculous you sound? If you have a problem with something, state it loud and clear as soon as it arises rather than sending out passive aggressive attacks

Oh, and let's not get started with the mods. I mean, what ASSHOLES right? How DARE they have a life and a job and not IMMIDIATELY answer the help calls of some whiny spoiled brats on a site they volunteer to work for free!

This is a harmless joke thread, take it for what it is. If you don't get it, it's only your fault for being so fucking sensitive and making things so much bigger than they really are. I really, REALLY cannot tolerate this sort of nonsense. I was all for solving this dispute peacefully but I fucking lost my patience. You don't want to be involved in it, that's completely understandable, so say it on the get-go rather than ruining it for everybody else. Be bloody direct for Christ's sake, had you done that sooner none of this would have happened you imbecilles. I'll repeat it one last time to make sure it gets in your fucking skulls: you want to stay out of something? Open your fucking mouth and speak right away rather than letting shit linger and fester inside you. There is nothing, NOTHING that pisses me off more than lack of pragmatism, and you've been lacking it all along. You were supposed to opt yourself out and go away if you didn't like it, simple, but no, you had to make things much more difficult than they didn't need to be.

Had someone mentioned someone who opted themselves out by mistake, I would have gladly seen to it that the error be fixed. A certain user had mentioned Vae and I sent a message to them asking to remove her to which said user obliged no problem. Don't you see how easy it is to avoid incomprehesions?

 

Oh wait, I see the thread's actually been closed. This proves how if you whine loud enough you can get what you want, even if your argument has no objective foundation and you're in the minority. What a valuable life lesson! : )

 

You know, all this drama could have been easily avoided if you made a new ''Which Forum Member Would You Fuck'', maybe with a ''V2'' at the end of it AND a ''(READ OP BEFORE POSTING)''. Then state in the OP that by commenting in the thread you choose to partake in it and that you can mention only and exclusively those who chose to participate as well. Boom. Done. But no, that might have actually solved something! 

Edited March 29, 2016 by Guest

[Spot]

1 hour ago, willow said:

that's what the report button's for

I'd use it if I honestly thought it would make a difference.

See, with any governed system when promises are made and not delivered on people usually tend to lose faith in it, like the real world... Oh wait, that's why I don't vote.

[ArielMT]

Excuse me, I'm just going to stand here gawking at the wreckage of the crash I slept through.

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

Amirr, shut your stupid fucking mouth and put yourself in other people's shoes for once. There is a point where something goes from a god damn joke to way too far and clearly that thread went too fucking far if BRASS was upset with it. You don't seem to grasp the concept that people were dragging users into the thread who were either uncomfortable to begin with, or didn't want anything to do with that thread. This wasn't "whining", as you put it. This was a legitimate thing to get upset over. Now I admit that in the past I said some things on here and in the discord chat that shouldn't have been said, but I've learned not to do that shit anymore. What are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that users should be talked about in sexual ways without their consent without any repercussion? I don't know about you, but that sounds really fucking rapey to me. You wanna know why I haven't been here recently? This shit is why. The attitude of this place has changed drastically out of nowhere and I no longer feel like we're a big community with optimism like we were in the beginning. I defend mods big time usually since I was a mod on a website for a while, but I can't defend the mods here anymore. You're incompetent as hell at this point. I know I'm gonna get yelled at by some people for saying this shit but I just don't care anymore.

[willow]

Just now, Mr. Fox said:

I'd use it if I honestly thought it would make a difference.

See, with any governed system when promises are made and not delivered on people usually tend to lose faith in it, like the real world... Oh wait, that's why I don't vote.

that's just code for 'I don't want to' imo

[Guest]

I've heard the call lots and lots of time, y'all. If @Zeke will have me I'll come back as mods. Do ya still luv me bby? School stuff died down. I'm still focusing but seems like you can use the help. 

[Spot]

Just now, willow said:

that's just code for 'I don't want to' imo

Alright then, I'll use it from now on. I rarely report anything but It will be interesting to see how it all plays out. I have a long memory, so I might bring up this discussion if I ever have to again.

 

[ArielMT]

A question for folks, including the current mods, and I apologize if it seems like I'm hijacking the thread to ask it.  (Edit: I'm not alone, so that makes me feel better.)

I left for a purely personal reason that had a direct impact on my professionalism and performance as a mod: I went too inactive here.  Not as bad as I did on FAF after He Who Must Not Be Named took over, but I wanted to nip it in the bud.  Since then, I've spent much more time here than I thought I would.

The question is: Would you have me back as a mod?

[Newt]

First of all, y'all need to chill.

 

More than just those three were vocal about the thread making them uncomfortable. Fleece and Brazen posted because the thread hadn't gotten out of hand at the time. It was an obvious shitpost circlejerk thread, but some users were being serious and saying wildly inappropriate things later on about people whom hadn't given them consent to do so (someone mentioning they wanted to manhandle Vae's breasts, people hitting on evan's boyfriend). You should not have to opt out of this type of behavior. No one who had concerns was passive-aggressively attacking anyone when the thread was still up, they were voicing their concerns to people who didn't take said concerns seriously. If you look back, you'll find that it was these people voicing concerns who were antagonized for "being triggered."

 

The OP should have been edited to lay down some ground rules. This could have fixed a lot, you're right, but it didn't happen. That is an issue that falls directly on the mods. They should have taken some control and made some edits to keep things from getting out of control, but instead they did nothing because "they had only received 2 reports." That is unacceptable.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Newt

[#00Buck]

I like how people said the old forum was bad because it was run by a small click of people who were not accountable to anyone.

Now this forum is going to be run by a small click of people who are not accountable to anyone. 

All moderators should be elected.

Otherwise this forum will have the exact same problems that the old forms are said to have had.

Edited March 29, 2016 by #00Buck

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, Sidewalk Surfboard said:

Amirr, shut your stupid fucking mouth and put yourself in other people's shoes for once. There is a point where something goes from a god damn joke to way too far and clearly that thread went too fucking far if BRASS was upset with it. You don't seem to grasp the concept that people were dragging users into the thread who were either uncomfortable to begin with, or didn't want anything to do with that thread. This wasn't "whining", as you put it. This was a legitimate thing to get upset over. Now I admit that in the past I said some things on here and in the discord chat that shouldn't have been said, but I've learned not to do that shit anymore. What are you trying to say? Are you trying to say that users should be talked about in sexual ways without their consent without any repercussion? I don't know about you, but that sounds really fucking rapey to me. You wanna know why I haven't been here recently? This shit is why. The attitude of this place has changed drastically out of nowhere and I no longer feel like we're a big community with optimism like we were in the beginning. I defend mods big time usually since I was a mod on a website for a while, but I can't defend the mods here anymore. You're incompetent as hell at this point. I know I'm gonna get yelled at by some people for saying this shit but I just don't care anymore.

That's why if people don't like it they are to say so, so that they won't be involved again. It becomes whining if you keep dragging it on after you did opt yourself out and the problem is fucking fixed. And please for the love of fucking God don't call this shit rapey because it's not. I don't see anyone being physically abused. THAT is rape. This isn't harassment either as it's nowhere nearly as consistent. Plus, I really don't see this change in atmosphere for the worst. It must be just you

The fact that people were dragged in without them being comfortable with it is unfortunate, that is correct. The alternative, and that is the solution I proposed, is infallible. If someone really wants to fix things, that's the option to choose. That way, those who don't want to be involved can't ever be involved, unless one is a troll or mentally impaired to grasp a simple fucking rule

 

Ah, and don't ever tell me to shut my mouth. Ever.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Newt said:

but some users were being serious

What makes you so certain that they were? Can you read minds?

 

13 minutes ago, Newt said:

manhandle Vae's breasts

Screencap and show it to me. It has to be in the thread we're speaking of

 

13 minutes ago, Newt said:

No one who had concerns was passive-aggressively attacking anyone when the thread was still up, they were voicing their concerns

You're right.

''They were voicing their concerns''

Edited March 29, 2016 by Guest

[willow]

24 minutes ago, #00Buck said:

I like how people said the old forum was bad because it was run by a small click of people who were not accountable to anyone.

Now this forum is going to be run by a small click of people who are not accountable to anyone. 

All moderators should be elected.

Otherwise this forum will have the exact same problems that the old forms are said to have had.

not got gonna lie but in the last few years of FAF the moderation wasn't even that bad compared to what it was before Zeke and Mentova were mods or after Chase was put in charge 

 

[#00Buck]

4 minutes ago, willow said:

not got gonna lie but in the last few years of FAF the moderation wasn't even that bad compared to what it was before Zeke and Mentova were mods or after Chase was put in charge 

 

It does not matter the quality of badness. 

If this place is going to truly be a break from the past and properly run the moderators should be selected by the members. 

Not a small group of people who have no accountability. 

[Xaende]

"Everything in moderation, including moderation."

- Oscar Wilde

[PastryOfApathy]

6 minutes ago, #00Buck said:

It does not matter the quality of badness. 

If this place is going to truly be a break from the past and properly run the moderators should be selected by the members. 

Not a small group of people who have no accountability. 

Vote Pastry 2016 kthnx

[TheGreatFanatic]

12 hours ago, Endless/Nameless said:

I think Willow locked the bot's account after about 20 minutes. That's not too bad, considering. No more spam threads are being made; someone just needs to clean up.

Uhm..

uh...

Did I miss something?

[Guest]

Ok, you know what? How 'bout we actually do this so everyone's happy:

1 hour ago, Amiir said:

Make a new ''Which Forum Member Would You Fuck'' titled ''Which Forum Member Would You Fuck V2 (READ OP BEFORE POSTING)''. Then state in the OP that by commenting in the thread you choose to partake in it and that you can mention only and exclusively those who chose to participate as well. Those who do not participate are to be excluded entirely, thus you are to refrain from adding any reference suggesting them whatsoever. They must not be named or suggested in any shape or form, period

I'm not too good at wording but you get the gist of it. Seems like a doable thing to me

[Terminal7]

4 minutes ago, Amiir said:

Ok, you know what? How 'bout we actually do this so everyone's happy:

I'm not too good at wording but you get the gist of it. Seems like a doable thing to me

But then the OP would get all the bitches.

That's not fair to the people who have no game.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Terminal7

[Feelwell]

10 minutes ago, Terminal7 said:

But then the OP would get all the bitches.

That's not fair to the people who have no game.

I believe what Dark Souls players would tell you is to:

Git gud.

[Guest]

@Newt Sorry if I may have sounded a bit antagonizing there, you're a good fellow. Same goes for @Sidewalk Surfboard

[Endless/Nameless]

1 hour ago, TheGreatFanatic said:

Uhm..

uh...

Did I miss something?

HAHAHA no, not really. 

[Astus]

Completely unrelated to the discussion in the thread, I think phoenix forums should get a babyfur moderator... you know... kinda like how companies hire minorities to appease all the social justice warriors? :V

[Spot]

6 minutes ago, Astus said:

Completely unrelated to the discussion in the thread, I think phoenix forums should get a babyfur moderator... you know... kinda like how companies hire minorities to appease all the social justice warriors? :V

Wasn't Ashley Ashes one on FAF? I mean, it could work.

[willow]

6 minutes ago, Astus said:

Completely unrelated to the discussion in the thread, I think phoenix forums should get a babyfur moderator... you know... kinda like how companies hire minorities to appease all the social justice warriors? :V

that's actually why they hired me :v

[Newt]

1 hour ago, 6tails said:

Okay, I need to step the fuck in and go BULL FUCKING SHIT.

Go look in the "Wake up with the user above you' thread.

Yea. Ain't NOBODY really got any room to be saying SHIT about this fucking subject IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE MOST OF YOU FUCKERS ARE GUILTY AS SHIT.

Take that goddamned bullshit hypocrisy somewhere else you fucking cunts.

You need to relax.

I'm simply stating why evan was upset. Whether or not he was being a hypocrite is not something I can comment on.

Raging and flinging insults is not conducive to this argument.

 

edit: I saw you edit in some insults by the way. Why would you do this?

 

--

@Amiir

Quote

 

What makes you so certain that they were? Can you read minds?

Screencap and show it to me. It has to be in the thread we're speaking of

You're right.

''They were voicing their concerns''

 

 

Some people did so seriously and even admitted that it was a bit creepy.

The "manhandling chests" incident happened in another thread a while back. Understandably, this made Vae uncomfortable being "hit on," joke or not. Users should know better than to tag people in such a thread without permission. Just because the thread didn't explicitly state that it was opt-in (which it should have), doesn't mean that it isn't up to the users to behave appropriately and consider whether or not someone is okay with being mentioned in the thread.

That particular post may have been a bit rude, but it doesn't change the fact that nearly all the insults thrown about were toward users who did nothing but say that the thread made them. It also doesn't mean they and others weren't voicing legitimate concerns.

Edited March 29, 2016 by Newt

[Endless/Nameless]

9 minutes ago, 6tails said:

Okay, I need to step the fuck in and go BULL FUCKING SHIT.

Go look in the "Wake up with the user above you' thread.

Yea. Ain't NOBODY really got any room to be saying SHIT about this fucking subject IN THE FIRST PLACE BECAUSE MOST OF YOU FUCKERS ARE GUILTY AS SHIT.

Take that goddamned bullshit hypocrisy somewhere else you fucking cunts.

The only difference is that in the WUWTUAY thread, everyone who posts in the thread has chosen to put themselves in that situation. 

BUUUUUUT, the behavior in that thread, as "innocent" as it may be, does help set the standard for what some people are going to take as acceptable kidding around. Thus, The Great Fuckthread was born. 

[Astus]

Why can't we all just be friends? :c

[Feelwell]

5 minutes ago, Newt said:

You need to relax.

I'm simply stating why evan was upset. Whether or not he was being a hypocrite is not something I can comment on.

Raging and flinging insults is not conducive to this argument.

 

edit: I saw you edit in some insults by the way. Why would you do this?

He's gotta change it to fit in to this thread. Your arguement isn't valid until you mix some insults and hatred into it.

 

33 minutes ago, willow said:

that's actually why they hired me :v

Hold up, er, who are you appeasing, and why should a babyfur moderator be hired to appease people. Like uh, who's that appeasing?

[Guest]

I still think you guys should go for my option

[Endless/Nameless]

Just now, Astus said:

Why can't we all just be friends? :c

I'll be friend. Let's post. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Endless/Nameless said:

I'll be friend. Let's post. 

...Dicks

 

:V

[Endless/Nameless]

Just now, Amiir said:

...Dicks

 

:V

B-B-B-Boobs

:3

[willow]

Settle down now, ladies 

No need for the hostility 

[Astus]

 

3 minutes ago, Feelwell the Rabbit said:

Hold up, er, who are you appeasing, and why should a babyfur moderator be hired to appease people. Like uh, who's that appeasing?

All of the social justice warriors obviously, babyfurs deserve rights too!! :V

Edited March 29, 2016 by Astus

[Guest]

Just now, Endless/Nameless said:

B-B-B-Boobs

:3

Yeah ok sure no problem. We can always mix and match