Vegans arent better

[Käpt'n]

17 hours ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

But meat is delicious

It is! :3

16 hours ago, Zeke said:

Most grazeland that is currently in use for cattle cannot be easily converted into land for crops because of soil quality and/or climate.

That is also true.
Imagine a farmer in Africa who can barely make a profit with his animals and keep his family alive. And all of a sudden you tell him that he has to get rid of his animals and start growing crops... He couldn't even afford that!

16 hours ago, weirdfox said:

Which would account for a tiny percentage of the food needed. The world going Vegan is a great concept, but the reality is just extremely unlikely and way to much work to just do.

Oh and the fact that food allergies exist.

 

Right, it would have to be a gradual process. This definitely isn't something you could do over night. We also need to figure out a lot of stuff before we even start doing that.

[Gamedog]

Quinoa is killing people in South America and that shit ain't even that good

a nice steak is better than quinoa

[LazerMaster5]

Try going to Hawaii and telling everyone to stop eating the pigs they have to kill to protect their ecosystem. The pigs are an invasive species and are kill on sight as a result, and Hawaiians eat lots of pork as a result. Save the environment, eat a Hawaiian pig.

[Vallium]

4 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Quinoa is killing people in South America and that shit ain't even that good

a nice steak is better than quinoa

B-but...I like Quinoa

[Astus]

I love when vegans try to get me to come over to their side; they be like "come on I know you love animals, how could you possibly eat them?" And then I say "because they're so tasty!" And proceeded to eat my raw steak.

 

But in all reality we are omnivores and while our diet should be mostly veggies and the such, we also need a bit of meat every once and a while to help give us things we can't normally find in plants nowadays with supplements it's easier to eat just veggies and the like but you're still not getting the natural forms of those compounds which can be bad for you health.

[#00Buck]

I'm on a all meat diet. 

[LazerMaster5]

21 hours ago, #00Buck said:

I'm on a all meat diet. 

Enjoy your vitamin deficiencies.

[#00Buck]

Just now, LazerMaster5 said:

Enjoy your vitamin deficiencies.

The only deficiency is Vitamin "D."

[LazerMaster5]

3 minutes ago, #00Buck said:

The only deficiency is Vitamin "D."

Eat your mushrooms.

[#00Buck]

6 minutes ago, LazerMaster5 said:

Eat your mushrooms.

I'm eating vitamin "D" pills. 

Like four times the normal amount. 

[Saxon]

On 18/04/2016 at 8:12 PM, PastryOfApathy said:

SHUT UP U FUKING BLOODMOUTH

thank you

On the subject of canines, the 'heterodont' condition, of possessing different types of teeth along the jaw line, is primitive to all mammals. The last common ancestor of all mammals had heterodont teeth.

Hence some fully carnivorous species which only evolved carnivory recently, like Polar bears, still retain types of molars that are better adapted for grinding vegetation, and some herbivorous species, like Musk deer and antelopes, still possess canines.

Thought that was pretty interesting.

 

[FlynnCoyote]

A couple years back, I tried to go vegetarian for a week as part of a Leafbiting challenge someone on FA was running. I pledged five days I think? I got to three and punched my brother in the face because I was not a happy chap.

So sure, maybe humans are biologically capable of living without meat? But what about psychologically? What about emotionally?

[WileyWarWeasel]

Humans are omnivores: some of our necessary nutrients are found in plants, some in animals, some in both.

 

The matter has been settled.

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, FlynnCoyote said:

A couple years back, I tried to go vegetarian for a week as part of a Leafbiting challenge someone on FA was running. I pledged five days I think? I got to three and punched my brother in the face because I was not a happy chap.

So sure, maybe humans are biologically capable of living without meat? But what about psychologically? What about emotionally?

I don't eat meat and I don't go around punching people, so maybe the problem is yours, rather than one of the entire human species.

[#00Buck]

Going vegan to try and be better than anyone else is a myth. It does not work that way.

If you really want to be better than everyone else buy a fancy pen. 

[Gamedog]

13 hours ago, Saxon said:

On the subject of canines, the 'heterodont' condition, of possessing different types of teeth along the jaw line, is primitive to all mammals. The last common ancestor of all mammals had heterodont teeth.

Hence some fully carnivorous species which only evolved carnivory recently, like Polar bears, still retain types of molars that are better adapted for grinding vegetation, and some herbivorous species, like Musk deer and antelopes, still possess canines.

Thought that was pretty interesting.

 

It's widely known that bears are opportunistic omnivores.

 

musk deer and water deer have canines for self defense but even deer will eat meat for nutrition

[Saxon]

17 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

It's widely known that bears are opportunistic omnivores.

 

musk deer and water deer have canines for self defense but even deer will eat meat for nutrition

The polar bear isn't an opportunistic omnivore, because, simply put, meat is the only available meal at that latitude. I believe the polar bear has a recent common ancestor with the brown bear, which is omnivorous.

The polar bear simply has not had enough time to adapt its dentition to its surroundings yet; maybe it will in the future.

 

Anyway, what I find interesting is that differentiated dentition is actually primitive among mammals; creatures which only have teeth adapted for eating meat, or which have lost their canines, are the specialised ones. I think a lot of people incorrectly think we're special for having both, when it's the normal condition.

[Zeke]

13 hours ago, Sylver said:

 

Edit: are there any studies what type of childhood vegans have? I'm really curious to know if something caused their higher empathy for animals.

Depends on the parents, really. Some of the kids become holier-than-thou if their mom and dad are. 
Parents also have to pay attention to the vitamin needs of their kids, which not many do. The end result is either stunted puberty if not on a proper diet, or illness. 

[Gamedog]

3 hours ago, Saxon said:

The polar bear isn't an opportunistic omnivore, because, simply put, meat is the only available meal at that latitude. I believe the polar bear has a recent common ancestor with the brown bear, which is omnivorous.

The polar bear simply has not had enough time to adapt its dentition to its surroundings yet; maybe it will in the future.

 

Anyway, what I find interesting is that differentiated dentition is actually primitive among mammals; creatures which only have teeth adapted for eating meat, or which have lost their canines, are the specialised ones. I think a lot of people incorrectly think we're special for having both, when it's the normal condition.

I said bears

You're wrong btw.

"Polar bears may attempt to find alternate prey on shore, including muskox, reindeer, small rodents, waterfowl, shellfish, fish, eggs, kelp, berries and even human garbage."

[Spot]

Vegans are just special snowflakes that cannot comprehend the awesomeness of meat.

[Gamedog]

2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

Vegans are just special snowflakes that cannot comprehend the awesomeness of meat.

No

Vegans are once-ordinary people who become holier thou after being exposed to incorrect information and becoming egotistical and ignorant due to this.

[TrishaCat]

Vegans are just people who don't want any of their food to come from animals. They are in their right to do so and not all of them are as obnoxious as people make them out to be.

[Gamedog]

4 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

Vegans are just people who don't want any of their food to come from animals. They are in their right to do so and not all of them are as obnoxious as people make them out to be.

Wrong

Vegans are people who don't want anyone's food to come from animals. Ive never met a vegan who didnt feel the need to try and justify their shit to me

[Saxon]

4 hours ago, Gamedog said:

No

Vegans are once-ordinary people who become holier thou after being exposed to incorrect information and becoming egotistical and ignorant due to this.

To be honest, that's just a description of you.

Not everybody who is vegan thinks they're better than other people, and not everybody who disagrees with you has been brainwashed with 'incorrect information'.

This is just a straw man which is easier to confront than real people.

4 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Wrong

Vegans are people who don't want anyone's food to come from animals. Ive never met a vegan who didnt feel the need to try and justify their shit to me

That's almost certainly confirmation bias; if you meet somebody who is a vegan and they don't even tell you they're vegan, how would you even know?

Moreover, you earlier assumed in another thread about vegans, that just because I didn't think that vegans were all obtuse twits, that I was vegan and that I wanted people who weren't to kill themselves. O_o you're too presumptuous.

It's especially frustrating because I'm a vegetarian who doesn't care whether other people eat meat; I just recognise, like captain cool explained, that reducing some of my consumption is better for the environment. I don't want everybody else to stop eating meat; I just think that if many of us consumed slightly less that we could alleviate the pressure we exert on the environment.

Whenever somebody I am sat next to in a restaurant does find out that I am a vegetarian though...you know what the first thing to happen is? They ask me to justify myself to them.

 

[willow]

I've considered going vegetarian at least because I don't really like the practices of the US meat industry, but steak is one of my favorite foods so....

it just wouldn't work 

[FlynnCoyote]

18 hours ago, Saxon said:

I don't eat meat and I don't go around punching people, so maybe the problem is yours, rather than one of the entire human species.

Maybe you're better conditioned to the practice since it's a permanent thing for you. For those who don't have that benefit and have grown up with a mixed diet, making the change could be much harder to cope with.

[Saxon]

5 hours ago, FlynnCoyote said:

Maybe you're better conditioned to the practice since it's a permanent thing for you. For those who don't have that benefit and have grown up with a mixed diet, making the change could be much harder to cope with.

Then again maybe it's just your personal problem?

[willow]

7 hours ago, FlynnCoyote said:

Maybe you're better conditioned to the practice since it's a permanent thing for you. For those who don't have that benefit and have grown up with a mixed diet, making the change could be much harder to cope with.

my best friend has been a vegetarian for the past seven years I believe, but before that he regularly ate meat. he's kind of an asshole but I don't think it's made him a violent person. that being said, most vegetarians used to eat meat (so called "mixed diet I guess). the only exception would be those who can't due to health reasons. 

most of them aren't violent either, so maybe it's just you

[Saxon]

Having searched the internet to determine whether vegetarianism is causally implicated in any difference in violent predispositions between vegetarians and meat-eaters, I could not find any article which wasn't either a news-paper rant or a trash-science website. (Is anybody aware of any valid research on this subject?)

I did find out that vegetarians are less likely to develop certain diseases https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23965907

Mostly 'diseases of affluence' that result from over-consumption of certain nutrients, like some fats and proteins.

They're more likely to develop some other diseases too, though the overall effect is a reduction in predisposition to disease.

 

I'm a bit confused though, because other studies have found that whilst vegetarians do tend to live longer, than this is mostly attributable to their lower rate of smoking.

[Gamedog]

14 hours ago, Saxon said:

To be honest, that's just a description of you.

Not everybody who is vegan thinks they're better than other people, and not everybody who disagrees with you has been brainwashed with 'incorrect information'.

This is just a straw man which is easier to confront than real people.

That's almost certainly confirmation bias; if you meet somebody who is a vegan and they don't even tell you they're vegan, how would you even know?

Moreover, you earlier assumed in another thread about vegans, that just because I didn't think that vegans were all obtuse twits, that I was vegan and that I wanted people who weren't to kill themselves. O_o you're too presumptuous.

It's especially frustrating because I'm a vegetarian who doesn't care whether other people eat meat; I just recognise, like captain cool explained, that reducing some of my consumption is better for the environment. I don't want everybody else to stop eating meat; I just think that if many of us consumed slightly less that we could alleviate the pressure we exert on the environment.

Whenever somebody I am sat next to in a restaurant does find out that I am a vegetarian though...you know what the first thing to happen is? They ask me to justify myself to them.

 

You don't need to tell me how vegans are, I've been dealing with them directly for years now specifically because of my hobbies and interests. You'll never understand the hate that hunters, trappers, fur farmers, taxidermists, and fur handlers in general get from vegans and ARA until you become one.

 

"if you meet somebody who is a vegan and they don't even tell you they're vegan"
Hahahah

 

You're a vegetarian btw, not a vegan, there's a big difference.

This is veganism; it goes hand-in-hand with animal rights activism

http://globalnews.ca/news/2672461/vandals-let-500-minks-loose-from-ontario-farm-but-their-babies-may-not-survive/?utm_source=Article&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

[Endless/Nameless]

I tried to amend my carnivorous habits; made it nearly seventy days. Lost weight without speed, ate sunflower seeds, drank lots of carrot juice and soaked up rays. But at night I'd have these wonderful dreams of some kind of sensuous treat; not of zucchini, fettuccini, or bulgur wheat, but of a big warm bun and a huge hunk of meat. A cheeseburger in paradise. Heaven on earth with an onion slice. Not too particular, not too precise; just a cheeseburger in paradise. I like mine with lettuce and tomatoes, Heinz Fifty-seven and french fried potatoes. Add a big kosher pickle and a cold draft beer—good God Almighty, please tell me which way do I steer for my cheeseburger in paradise?

[Saxon]

9 hours ago, Gamedog said:

You don't need to tell me how vegans are, I've been dealing with them directly for years now specifically because of my hobbies and interests. You'll never understand the hate that hunters, trappers, fur farmers, taxidermists, and fur handlers in general get from vegans and ARA until you become one.

 

"if you meet somebody who is a vegan and they don't even tell you they're vegan"
Hahahah

 

You're a vegetarian btw, not a vegan, there's a big difference.

This is veganism; it goes hand-in-hand with animal rights activism

http://globalnews.ca/news/2672461/vandals-let-500-minks-loose-from-ontario-farm-but-their-babies-may-not-survive/?utm_source=Article&utm_medium=MostPopular&utm_campaign=2014

I don't think you can assume that your personal experience is representative of all vegans. I also have a suspicion that you enjoy generating online attention, which is why you talk about dog-fighting so often, something that most normal people would find unpalatable, rather than just vegans.

[FlynnCoyote]

18 hours ago, Saxon said:

Then again maybe it's just your personal problem?

 

16 hours ago, willow said:

my best friend has been a vegetarian for the past seven years I believe, but before that he regularly ate meat. he's kind of an asshole but I don't think it's made him a violent person. that being said, most vegetarians used to eat meat (so called "mixed diet I guess). the only exception would be those who can't due to health reasons. 

most of them aren't violent either, so maybe it's just you

Well maybe some cunts deal with frustration better than I do, and maybe other cunts just like to look self important by calling attention to a non issue. I never tried to establish any causation between violence and vegetarianism, I just posited that not everyone will handle a vegetarian diet as easily as others. Anyone else may have tried and given up for the same reason, that doesn't mean it's going to make it into some internet article for you to throw around. All I gave was my own experience, in context and how I personally dealt with it. Additionally, I have on several occasions now now posted here that I periodically struggle with anger issues.

I guess it may also be worth considering that not everyone is a vegetarian for the same reason. I'm sure plenty of people actively enjoy that choice of diet, but some might be medically restricted in what they can eat and others might make it a personal self challenge like I did. Having elements beyond your control dictate your lifestyle can be a very frustrating issue, and the feeling of failure to meet a personal goal can be just as hard. Even before potential dietary deficiencies from handling it wrong and not sufficiently accounting for the loss of things like protein and iron.

In any case, I never tried to make any claim, only put forward possibilities based on personal experience.

[Gamedog]

3 hours ago, Saxon said:

which is why you talk about dog-fighting so often, something that most normal people would find unpalatable

I don't understand what my hobbies have anything to do with what we're discussing 

[Saxon]

3 hours ago, Gamedog said:

I don't understand what my hobbies have anything to do with what we're discussing 

I think the way that you flaunt your hobbies attracts (?un)welcome attention and that this has given you a skewed impression of what other people are like.

You also seem to attack straw men very frequently. For example 'vegans are hypocrites because killing pests is necessary for agriculture to proceed,'.

[Gamedog]

1 hour ago, Saxon said:

I think the way that you flaunt your hobbies attracts (?un)welcome attention and that this has given you a skewed impression of what other people are like.

You also seem to attack straw men very frequently. For example 'vegans are hypocrites because killing pests is necessary for agriculture to proceed,'.

My hobbies have nothing to do with this discussion 

that isn't a straw man, it's the truth. You can't claim that your diet is "cruelty free" while trappers are killing animals to protect it -- something vegans are against 

[Saxon]

6 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

My hobbies have nothing to do with this discussion 

that isn't a straw man, it's the truth. You can't claim that your diet is "cruelty free" while trappers are killing animals to protect it -- something vegans are against 

You complained that vegans often dislike you for your hobbies, and that this is the reason you think they are all nasty people. So your hobbies are relevant. You interact with a subset of highly opinionated vegans who are very angry with you; of course they don't represent all vegans. Some vegans don't eat animal products for health or religious reasons, rather than because they care about animal well being whatsoever, for example.

This brings me to your straw man; not all vegans do claim that eating a vegan diet avoids all cruelty associated with modern farming. In fact, I would suspect that hardly any of them would claim that eating a vegan diet means that there will never be any instance of cruelty in farming, because that's plainly ridiculous.

I think it's far likelier that the vegans who dislike animal suffering, abstain from animal products in order to reduce the quantity of animal suffering necessary to sustain them; they probably realise that they can't negate it entirely.

 

You're arguing against a strawman that you contrived, because it's easy to dismantle.

[Gamedog]

17 minutes ago, Saxon said:

You complained that vegans often dislike you for your hobbies, and that this is the reason you think they are all nasty people. So your hobbies are relevant. You interact with a subset of highly opinionated vegans who are very angry with you; of course they don't represent all vegans. Some vegans don't eat animal products for health or religious reasons, rather than because they care about animal well being whatsoever, for example.

This brings me to your straw man; not all vegans do claim that eating a vegan diet avoids all cruelty associated with modern farming. In fact, I would suspect that hardly any of them would claim that eating a vegan diet means that there will never be any instance of cruelty in farming, because that's plainly ridiculous.

I think it's far likelier that the vegans who dislike animal suffering, abstain from animal products in order to reduce the quantity of animal suffering necessary to sustain them; they probably realise that they can't negate it entirely.

 

You're arguing against a strawman that you contrived, because it's easy to dismantle.

I'm not talking about vegans hating my fur hobbies, I'm talking about you bringing up my interest in game dogs and researching dog fighting breeds. You bringing this up had nothing to do with the topic at hand

 

the vegan diet is widely marketed as being "cruelty free", with scantily clad women with lettuce bras telling you to go vegan because "meat is murder"

[Saxon]

9 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

I'm not talking about vegans hating my fur hobbies, I'm talking about you bringing up my interest in game dogs and researching dog fighting breeds. You bringing this up had nothing to do with the topic at hand

 

the vegan diet is widely marketed as being "cruelty free", with scantily clad women with lettuce bras telling you to go vegan because "meat is murder"

The persona you cultivate online, talking about fur trapping and dog fights, gives people the impression that you enjoy animal suffering. Do you think it is surprising that emotionally charged vegans gravitate towards you?

Do you actually think a woman dressed in lettuce means that vegans think no animal has ever died because of pesticide inhalation, that mice have never been killed to protect a grainstore and so forth?

Even if some imaginary vegan did think this, their intent to reduce animal suffering would not be shown to be futile. You would have shown them that some animal suffering is unavoidable, not that any endeavour to reduce it is ineffectual.

 

[Gamedog]

10 minutes ago, Saxon said:

The persona you cultivate online, talking about fur trapping and dog fights, gives people the impression that you enjoy animal suffering. Do you think it is surprising that emotionally charged vegans gravitate towards you?

Do you actually think a woman dressed in lettuce means that vegans think no animal has ever died because of pesticide inhalation, that mice have never been killed to protect a grainstore and so forth?

Even if some imaginary vegan did think this, their intent to reduce animal suffering would not be shown to be futile. You would have shown them that some animal suffering is unavoidable, not that any endeavour to reduce it is ineffectual.

 

Vegans come at me online because I point out flaws in their arguments and so called facts. They come at me because I support fur trapping and hunting

i never said that I believe "no vegan thinks that no animal has died from pesticide inhalation", I said that animals are killed so that vegans can eat and therefore, are "murdered" just like cows for beef are. A vegan diet isn't any less "cruel" than a non vegan diet.

gamedogs have nothing to do with this subject and I ask that you drop it

thank you

[Saxon]

39 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

Vegans come at me online because I point out flaws in their arguments and so called facts. They come at me because I support fur trapping and hunting

i never said that I believe "no vegan thinks that no animal has died from pesticide inhalation", I said that animals are killed so that vegans can eat and therefore, are "murdered" just like cows for beef are. A vegan diet isn't any less "cruel" than a non vegan diet.

gamedogs have nothing to do with this subject and I ask that you drop it

thank you

I agree with you that some vegans approach you because you support fur trapping, hunting and have an interest in dog fighting. Assuming that this irate group represents all vegans is a premature conclusion.

I think you're missing a big point about the discussion of cruelty. It's necessary to kill many mice, to keep our food secure. That's cruel, but it's reality; we can't avoid it. Eating lots of meat isn't necessary, so somebody might decide that they can reduce the amount of cruel treatment of animals they cause by not eating meat.

Telling them 'you haven't reduced anything because mice still die' isn't 'pointing out a flaw in their so called fact'. It's being a retard.

 

[Gamedog]

5 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I agree with you that some vegans approach you because you support fur trapping, hunting and have an interest in dog fighting. Assuming that this irate group represents all vegans is a premature conclusion.

I think you're missing a big point about the discussion of cruelty. It's necessary to kill many mice, to keep our food secure. That's cruel, but it's reality; we can't avoid it. Eating lots of meat isn't necessary, so somebody might decide that they can reduce the amount of cruel treatment of animals they cause by not eating meat.

Telling them 'you haven't reduced anything because mice still die' isn't 'pointing out a flaw in their so called fact'. It's being a retard.

 

Vegans have never approached me because of my interest in game dogs. You brought it up completely at random for some reason I still fail to understand

 

"Eating lots of meat isn't necessary", this is based on person to person basis

i don't think eating a meat free diet is necessary either.

 

it is pointing a flaw in their argument. These people are against trapping and hunting (even for food) and yet their food is protected by hunters hunting for food

 

drop the personal insults, ty

[Saxon]

25 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

Vegans have never approached me because of my interest in game dogs. You brought it up completely at random for some reason I still fail to understand

 

"Eating lots of meat isn't necessary", this is based on person to person basis

i don't think eating a meat free diet is necessary either.

 

it is pointing a flaw in their argument. These people are against trapping and hunting (even for food) and yet their food is protected by hunters hunting for food

 

drop the personal insults, ty

'Eating meat isn't necessary'.

'Not eating meat isn't necessary either'

What do you think this has to do with anything? The point is that one can avoid eating meat. Saying 'well, I say you can avoid avoiding meat' doesn't relate to the discussion; it's asinine.

 

By abstaining from meat, somebody can reduce the amount of animal suffering necessary for them to survive. Some animals are still going to suffer, because pests need to be killed and medicines need to be tested, but that suffering isn't realistically avoidable anyway.

That's the reason a lot of vegans are vegans. Get it? They're not vegans because they expect that becoming vegan will mean that their lifestyle will never result in any harm to any other animal; that's impossible.

 

[Gamedog]

39 minutes ago, Saxon said:

'Eating meat isn't necessary'.

'Not eating meat isn't necessary either'

What do you think this has to do with anything? The point is that one can avoid eating meat. Saying 'well, I say you can avoid avoiding meat' doesn't relate to the discussion; it's asinine.

 

By abstaining from meat, somebody can reduce the amount of animal suffering necessary for them to survive. Some animals are still going to suffer, because pests need to be killed and medicines need to be tested, but that suffering isn't realistically avoidable anyway.

That's the reason a lot of vegans are vegans. Get it? They're not vegans because they expect that becoming vegan will mean that their lifestyle will never result in any harm to any other animal; that's impossible.

 

"Eating meat isn't necessary"

"avoiding meat(veg*n diet) isn't necessary"

 

my point was that these things are subjective and vary heavily from person to person. I personally believe that meat is a necessary part of the human diet and you don't.

 

the vegan diet is very rarely touted as "being slightly less murderous", it's labeled being "cruelty free" and "murder free", it's just that things like insects and mice don't matter, and vegans don't know about the animals that are hunted and trapped to protect their crops.

 

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, Gamedog said:

"Eating meat isn't necessary"

"avoiding meat(veg*n diet) isn't necessary"

 

my point was that these things are subjective and vary heavily from person to person. I personally believe that meat is a necessary part of the human diet and you don't.

 

the vegan diet is very rarely touted as "being slightly less murderous", it's labeled being "cruelty free" and "murder free", it's just that things like insects and mice don't matter, and vegans don't know about the animals that are hunted and trapped to protect their crops.

 

Given that millions of people don't eat meat, no it's not necessary. Unless one is a hunter-gatherer I suppose.

The vegan diet isn't 'slightly less murderous'. It absolves vegans from involvement in a huge amount of animal cruelty. Just not all animal cruelty.

You haven't dismantled any argument in favour of veganism; you've only addressed a straw man.

I'm also concerned that you continue to think that vegans are all preoccupied with what other people eat and being snooty on the internet. Lots of people are vegan because of health reasons, or because they want to reduce their carbon footprint, or because of religious reasons. They're not all green-peace hippy-crits.

[Vallium]

5 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Given that millions of people don't eat meat, no it's not necessary. Unless one is a hunter-gatherer I suppose.

The vegan diet isn't 'slightly less murderous'. It absolves vegans from involvement in a huge amount of animal cruelty. Just not all animal cruelty.

You haven't dismantled any argument in favour of veganism; you've only addressed a straw man.

I'm also concerned that you continue to think that vegans are all preoccupied with what other people eat and being snooty on the internet. Lots of people are vegan because of health reasons, or because they want to reduce their carbon footprint, or because of religious reasons. They're not all green-peace hippy-crits.

But meat is delicious

[Gamedog]

4 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Given that millions of people don't eat meat, no it's not necessary. Unless one is a hunter-gatherer I suppose.

The vegan diet isn't 'slightly less murderous'. It absolves vegans from involvement in a huge amount of animal cruelty. Just not all animal cruelty.

You haven't dismantled any argument in favour of veganism; you've only addressed a straw man.

I'm also concerned that you continue to think that vegans are all preoccupied with what other people eat and being snooty on the internet. Lots of people are vegan because of health reasons, or because they want to reduce their carbon footprint, or because of religious reasons. They're not all green-peace hippy-crits.

"Animal cruelty"

up for debate. I don't consider it to be cruelty.

im on mobile so pardon me if I'm not about to get into long drawn out debate with you. If you'd like, send me some questions and I'll debate them like I would any other vegan who attacks me, once I get on my laptop

 

kind of hypocritical for a vegan to consider killing animals for meat to be "cruelty" while their crops have the blood of animals spilled on em just so that they can continue eating "guilt free"

theres a pretty interesting video I could show you. Guy trapping raccoons along the edge of a corn field. Must have bagged 20+,in one trip

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, Gamedog said:

"Animal cruelty"

up for debate. I don't consider it to be cruelty.

im on mobile so pardon me if I'm not about to get into long drawn out debate with you. If you'd like, send me some questions and I'll debate them like I would any other vegan who attacks me, once I get on my laptop

 

kind of hypocritical for a vegan to consider killing animals for meat to be "cruelty" while their crops have the blood of animals spilled on em just so that they can continue eating "guilt free"

theres a pretty interesting video I could show you. Guy trapping raccoons along the edge of a corn field. Must have bagged 20+,in one trip

Can you see it from their perspective, and that your points haven't dismantled their reasons from abstaining from meat?

It's not possible to avoid all animal killing. So this is a silly standard by which to criticise vegans. It's a strawman. 

 

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[Gamedog]

1 hour ago, Saxon said:

Can you see it from their perspective, and that your points haven't dismantled their reasons from abstaining from meat?

It's not possible to avoid all animal killing. So this is a silly standard by which to criticise vegans. It's a strawman. 

 

It's not a strawman, though.

Veganism is claimed to be a cruelty-free diet, and one that's more ecologically beneficial in the long run. If we look at the impact that modern day farming (not even farming for meat, just crops) and the run-offs that occur, we can see how a vegan diet isn't "cruelty-free", it's just re-directing the cruelty elsewhere. Vegans don't eat LESS than everyone else, they just substitute meat with plant-based foods, mostly made from soy or quinoa.

Algae blooms in Lake Erie are caused by vegetable farming and chemical run-off from these farms. The algae blooms cause massive "dead-zones" in the lake and kill huge amounts of fish and aquatic life.

http://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/lake-eries-toxic-algae-bloom-is-back-and-its-spreading/55354

An increase in the consumption of quinoa by veg*ns is the direct cause of Bolivians and other South Americans starving and becoming poorer because their main food source is being eaten by those who think that by doing so, they're "cruelty-free" or doing "less harm". All these people have done is redirect their harm onto someone else and shrugged it off. HEre are some fancy lapel pins in case you haven't told enough people you're cruelty-free by being vegan.
http://www.petacatalog.com/images/products/787.jpg

On top of all this, vegans will claim that raising cattle is farm more detrimental to the environment because they incorrectly believe that crops are grown specifically to feed the beef industry -- this is by and large FALSE on every account. Vegans will say that it takes X amount of corn/grain (these are used interchangeably, strangely enough) to produce 1lb of beef.
What they fail to realize, mostly due to a lack of self-education and self-research, is that beef cows are not fed straight corn or grains, they're fed the BY-PRODUCTS that humans don't eat! The by-products from soy, corn, and any other grain is given to cows, so eating vegan supports the beef industry by feeding their cattle! The fertilizer sprayed on vegan crops is made up of a mixture of cow, pig, and chicken shit sourced from slaughterhouses and mink from fur farms!

I've never met a vegan who educated themselves on the meat industry with an open mind, not once. I've set through all the vegan documentaries that people have thrown at me and they all circulate the same old crock of shit.

Again, if you've got any questions feel free to ask me, I've been debating with vegans for years.