Rant: Lenient jail sentences

[Kinharia]

Hello there everyone, let me tell you a short story of stupidily lenient jail terms.

 

Back in 2014 a then 28 year old drunk driver killed an 18 year old. He was sentenced to just 3 and a half years for the murder, the maximum sentence being 14 years (specific to drunk drivers murdering people). Why the judge felt 3 and a half years for the murder was the perfect punishment is beyond me.

[Terminal7]

Because that isn't murder.

It was an accident. 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

It wasn't likely to be premeditated, hence it's not a murder but rather a killing by accident or negligence

[Rassah]

Manslaughter. Also keeping someone in jail doesn't really do much, unless it's some violent psychopath who is a danger to society. Having this guy work off the damage he's done, instead of forcing the rest of us to work to keep him locked up, would've been a better outcome.

[#00Buck]

It wasn't murder it was a car accident. 

Unless the person who did it went out driving intentionally wanting to kill someone. 

Then it would be murder. 

[Wax]

I find that the concept of lenient jail sentences is often exploited by far-right traditionalist people, to push some kind of stupid political agenda. In the UK, especially.

[KyryK]

I'm assuming this is something personal, and i have to ask. What would a longer jail sentence have actually achieved for anyone involved?

[Guest]

Oh man... I don't want to get pissed off today so I'll avoid adding my say on the matter. I really don't want no pseudo-intellectual lecture me with their apologetic horseshit

[AshleyAshes]

Incarceration should be focused on rehabilitation rather than simply 'punishing' people to make everyone else 'feel good' about it.  And prison time should scale proportionately with the nature of the crime.  In this case it would be questions like, did they already have a criminal history involving drunk driving?  How reckless was the act of drunk driving in question?  Did they stay at the scene or try to escape and avoid any responsibility?  Stuff like that.

Prisons are expensive.  Here in Canada iover $100 000 per year is spent on the average federal inmate.  That's a lot of money to spend on someone and as a tax payer I'd like to spend the least amount of money possible.  I want people leaving prisons to be able to re-enter and contribute to society as law abiding citizens.  Needlessly long prison terms do not help this.  Baring prisoners from employment opportunities doesn't help this either.  If all you do is hold people in prison for a long time, then throw them onto the streets while making it extremely difficult to make a living, they will be driven to dependence on social services more (More tax payers money spent needlessly to cover the cost of just trying to grind a person into the ground', to substance abuse or committing more crimes.  All of these things just increase costs to society.  As a tax payer, I'm not particularly interested in my taxes bankrolling people's revenge quest against criminals.

And certainly some crimes can be so heinous or egregious that long and maybe even indefinite prison terms are necessary but I only think that should happen when it's necessary.

[Strongbob]

It's easy to confuse punishment with revenge in cases like this.  The calculus of sentencing generally won't make either side happy.  

[Khaki]

10 hours ago, Rassah said:

Manslaughter. Also keeping someone in jail doesn't really do much, unless it's some violent psychopath who is a danger to society. Having this guy work off the damage he's done, instead of forcing the rest of us to work to keep him locked up, would've been a better outcome.

I can agree with this line of thinking, would make more sense just to have the bloke pay a large sum for compensation to the family of the victim as a form of penalisation.

Also what happened to corporal punishment such as hard labour and public flogging?

Could corporal punishment be a more effective means to deterring negligence and delinquency? 

[Kinharia]

I should reiterate that Drink Driving is taken very seriously here in Ireland compared to North America. In North America it is culturally accepted to just drink and drive, over here you will NEVER do it. People who drink and drive have no defence as they are aware the moment they start drinking that if they keep going and get behind the wheel they will be responsible for any and all actions they take, most of these cases almost always involve the driver speeding away from the crime scene (as was the case here).

 

Prisons on this island are not full, there are many empty cells as in most non serious crimes the police prefare to give Probations and/or Fines.

 

Now should the person just be locked away and forgotten about? No, they should be rehabilitated which I agree and discouraged from ever taking alcohol again. A mixture of rehabilitation and hard labour would be a good help/deterrant all in one. The family knows the person is being punished for their crime and at the sametime the person will return to society better for themself.

[AshleyAshes]

3 hours ago, Kinharia said:

In North America it is culturally accepted to just drink and drive

Uhh... Noooooooooo?

[Kinharia]

59 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Uhh... Noooooooooo?

In comparison to over here I noticed there is a bigger acceptance towards drink driving.

[AshleyAshes]

4 minutes ago, Kinharia said:

In comparison to over here I noticed there is a bigger acceptance towards drink driving.

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/irelands-dui-rate-among-highest-in-europe-new-study-shows-126616208-237403811.html

I think this might be a matter of 'perception' vs 'reality'.

[Kinharia]

Article is 5 years old, but I am not going to deny the figures in comparison to other European countries, but general attitudes of people here is Anti-Drink driving. Does it happen? Yes, but it is met with serious consequences. Or at least it was met with serious consequences.

[AshleyAshes]

3 minutes ago, Kinharia said:

general attitudes of people here is Anti-Drink driving.

Yeah, still not seeing why you think there's no anti-drunk driving attitude in the United States or Canada.  Guessing it's related to you not being from the United States or Canada.  I assure you, there is a broad general consensus against drunk driving in North America and a lot of private and public money put toward stemming drunk driving.  ...I think your belief that it is socially accepted in North America is purely fiction. 

[Kinharia]

11 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Yeah, still not seeing why you think there's no anti-drunk driving attitude in the United States or Canada.  Guessing it's related to you not being from the United States or Canada.  I assure you, there is a broad general consensus against drunk driving in North America and a lot of private and public money put toward stemming drunk driving.  ...I think your belief that it is socially accepted in North America is purely fiction. 

You have convinced me to change my view Ashley.

[Strongbob]

2 hours ago, Kinharia said:

You have convinced me to change my view Ashley.

Don't change your mind so fast.  I do data analysis for traffic accidents in the US and your original statement has some validity in some regions of the US.  While in general people in the US are against drunk driving, there is a massive difference between urban and rural attitudes and crash statistics.  In urban areas if you drink and drive you have a reasonable chance of getting caught and DWI crashes are comparatively low.  In extremely rural areas your chance of being caught is near zero, assuming your don't crash your vehicle.  Few people will admit they drink and drive, but a shocking proportion of drivers in very rural areas do it regularly.  Most of them don't wear their seatbelts either.

[Lucyfish]

The problem is when people who commit manslaughter get no punishment at all.

*coughexcopsonofafuckingbitchcough*

[Zeke]

Child-fuckers usually get less on account of "good behavior".

[Summercat]

4 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Child-fuckers usually get less on account of "good behavior".

Are we talking about 40 year olds diddling 10 year olds, or 18 year olds having sex with a 17 year old?

[Zeke]

Just now, Summercat said:

Are we talking about 40 year olds diddling 10 year olds, or 18 year olds having sex with a 17 year old?

40 year old fucking 10 year olds.

[Summercat]

Just now, Zeke said:

40 year old fucking 10 year olds.

Bit worse than the other.

Are they undergoing therapy? Do they understand what they did is wrong? Do they show actual remorse? Are they getting help to deal with that sort of thing, and are those  helpers saying its working?

Not defending kiddy-diddling. Just pointing out that if  they're on the road to rehabilitation, why not let 'em go early for good behavior.

[Spot]

Is this Ireland we're talking about, or America?

In an case, the judiciary system is all kinds of fucked up. In a lot of cases the punishment doesn't always fit the crime.

And then you get into all these draconian sentences like multiple life sentences. Like, how the fuck does that even work? Do they bring you back from the dead so you can keep serving time? Do they equate it to the next life?

Lol!  

[GarthTheWereWolf]

4 hours ago, Zeke said:

Child-fuckers usually get less on account of "good behavior".

Thankfully, in California at least, they get committed to mental hospitals as legal loophole-esc way to keep them locked up indefinitely as sexually violent predators. So even after they've finished their jail sentence time they're stuck in places like Coalinga away from the public. Even that though is too good for them ;\

[Gamedog]

On 2016-04-29 at 3:38 PM, Sylver said:

Isn't it strange that when someone drives home drunk successfully, nobody really cares, but suddenly it matters when some guy kills a kid?

Do you even read the shit you type before you hit Submit?

 

[willow]

On 4/29/2016 at 2:38 PM, Sylver said:

The short-term effects of alcohol are common sense; we all know not to drink while intoxicated.

 

there's a lot of things that we all "know" not to do but people do them anyway...

[TrishaCat]

I actually feel the oppositely; I think its insane that people can call a 3 year jail sentence measly. Think about how much time is in a year. Think about how much of your life is lost by such. What's the point of jail if people have long jail sentences? Isn't the whole point that people learn from their mistakes and be given time to contemplate that and see why what they did was wrong? Long jail sentences miss the whole point of jail and just steal people's lives away, and I genuinely believe that even terrible criminals should be given a chance to right themselves and become better people and enter back into the world without a huge amount of their life gone. I think its absurd that a 10 year jail sentence could ever be given to a person.

 In North America it is culturally accepted to just drink and drive

That's not true in the least

[WileyWarWeasel]

Perhaps we should consider this from a free market perspective: instead of costly imprisonment they could be ground up into meat for tasty hamburgers. Think of the boon to the food industry!

:V

[Endless/Nameless]

24 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

I think its insane that people can call a 3 year jail sentence measly. Think about how much time is in a year.

No shit, right?
^{(I'm out of likes)}

[Rassah]

21 hours ago, Zeke said:

Child-fuckers usually get less on account of "good behavior".

An acquaintance of mine who ran a website and supposedly sold some shrooms through it once got 40 years plus 3 consecutive life sentences for it. Punishments are just all over the f'in place, often just based on how bad of a mood the judge was that day.

[Kinharia]

5 minutes ago, Rassah said:

An acquaintance of mine who ran a website and supposedly sold some shrooms through it once got 40 years plus 3 consecutive life sentences for it. Punishments are just all over the f'in place, often just based on how bad of a mood the judge was that day.

I notice you left the store with a loaf of bread by mistake. And yes you may have given the store double but it still theft and my wife broke up with me. Life sentence no parole.

[Saxon]

14 hours ago, 6tails said:

I can find ~400 pedos within practical walking distance and have had to deal with them personally while working in the porno business. They're not locked up and away from society by any means.

Surely not everybody on the sex offenders register will be a child molester.

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, 6tails said:

In this fucked-up meth-riddled area? They're not worried about people pissing in public.

Surely anybody who has molested someone, regardless of whether their victim is a child, is on that register.

 

[Summercat]

7 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Surely not everybody on the sex offenders register will be a child molester.

Most are not, and the things that get you put on there can be varied. 

5 minutes ago, 6tails said:

In this fucked-up meth-riddled area? They're not worried about people pissing in public.

The sex offender registry, as I linked above, contains more than just kiddy diddlers. It also can include teenagers having a consenting sexual moment with other teenagers. I recall a case where someone was charged with statutory rape because he had sex with his girlfriend of 2 years after he turned 18 and she was 17.

[Luka]

Drunk driving isn't that much of an accident.

He made the choice to endanger other people. He should pay a higher price than a sober driver would.

[Saxon]

2 minutes ago, Summercat said:

Most are not, and the things that get you put on there can be varied. 

So you can evidently become a 'tier 3 sex offender' by repeatedly being 'lewd' 3 times?

I'm also surprised this information is available to the public with names and addresses in the USA; vigilantes might target them.

[Summercat]

1 minute ago, Luka said:

Drunk driving isn't that much of an accident.

He made the choice to endanger other people. He should pay a higher price than a sober driver would.

Aye, he should - but what's the full circumstances of the case? How drunk was he, and how much did his drunkenness actually impact things. Was the other driver being reckless behind the wheel himself, or is the specific place of the accident known to have impacts between sober people, etc. 

Driving while intoxicated is something that should enhance the sentence regardless - but the full details need to be considered.

[Thundeere]

The kid shouldn't have been standing there

srry:(

[Summercat]

Just now, Saxon said:

So you can evidently become a 'tier 3 sex offender' by repeatedly being 'lewd' 3 times?

I'm also surprised this information is available to the public with names and addresses in the USA; vigilantes might target them.

You *can* become a higher tier offender if, after your trial and conviction, you repeat a lower-level offense. I don't know if it's automatic.

And yeah, this information isn't conducive towards rehabilitation of people. Nor are the "You can't live within X of this type of place" laws, that are conveniently set up so there's nowhere in the town/city/area they can legally live. And of course, harassment can happen - and many people go "Well, they're sex offenders, they deserve it."

On the other side of the coin, there's the argument that you should be aware if there's someone with a history of sexual predation in your neighborhood - but many of the things that land people on the Registry don't really concern others. 

3 minutes ago, Thundeere said:

The kid shouldn't have been standing there

 

What if the kid intentionally jumped into traffic, and due to the then-current conditions, the driver couldn't stop in time? And what if only one of the applicable conditions was the driver's just-over legal limit for BAC?

[Gamedog]

13 hours ago, Sylver said:

No

I think the only thing I care about is how people interact with my post. I'm not too concerned with how others see me, although that does affect the type of responses you get. So I care about my reputation to the extent that it affects feedback; though reputation is incredibly easy to salvage. On the off-chance I'm lazy and all goes to shit, I can just create a new account, don a different personality and typing style, change my IP, and I'm all good.

thats an awful lot of effort you put into being a socially inept edgelord.

[GarthTheWereWolf]

17 hours ago, 6tails said:

I can find ~400 pedos within practical walking distance and have had to deal with them personally while working in the porno business. They're not locked up and away from society by any means.

Of course you're not going to get them all, but as others have stated not everyone on the sex offender registry is a kiddy diddler either. Nevertheless, a rather large number of them are being basically incarcerated indefinitely in these mental hospitals despite having finished their jail sentence purely because people don't want them on the street.

[Zeke]

23 hours ago, Rassah said:

An acquaintance of mine who ran a website and supposedly sold some shrooms through it once got 40 years plus 3 consecutive life sentences for it. Punishments are just all over the f'in place, often just based on how bad of a mood the judge was that day.

If a lawyer is smart, they can request a Judge recuse him/herself based on bias, but defense lawyers do not unless you paid for it and not the courts. However, drug offenses are heavily applied compared to sexual offenses. Recently, there was a case where a stepfather had raped his 8 and 4 year old stepdaughters and had gotten 15 years with his sentence lessened to 10 on good behavior.  Last drug case had a guy put behind bars for 20 years for possession with no intention to distribute. 

22 hours ago, Saxon said:

So you can evidently become a 'tier 3 sex offender' by repeatedly being 'lewd' 3 times?

I'm also surprised this information is available to the public with names and addresses in the USA; vigilantes might target them.

Looking at porn in public can get you arrested as a sex offender here in Virginia. Sex in a library in a designated children's area, with 4-5 year olds running about at 4 PM? Misdemeanor.

[Mikazuki Marazhu]

Quite entertaining

Quote

Latasha Harlins was a 15-year-old girl who was shot by a Korean grocery store clerk in an argument about milk. The owner was sentenced to community service, probation, and a fine.

Quote

Police found such a small amount of crack cocaine in James V. Taylor’s car that investigators described it as unweighable. But somehow, It was enough for a 15-year prison sentence in Missouri, where the courts make an enormous distinction between crack and powder cocaine.

Quote

Paris Hilton was caught with .8 grams of cocaine in Las Vegas. Despite an arrest record for drunk driving, she was sentenced to only community service.

Quote

Genarlow Wilson was a 17-year-old high school football player who was videotaped receiving oral sex from a 15-year-old girl. Despite the fact that the sex was consensual, Wilson was sentenced to 10 years on statutory rape charges.

Quote

BART Officer Johannes Mehserle was caught on a cell-phone camera shooting and killing 22-year-old Oscar Grant in a Bay Area subway station. The shooting occurred while Grant was on the floor in handcuffs.

After a highly publicized trial, Mehserle would be found guilty of involuntary manslaughter and sentenced to a few months after time served. He was released earlier this year.

 

[Toboe]

On 30.4.2016 at 7:17 PM, Lucyfish said:

The problem is when people who commit manslaughter get no punishment at all.

*coughexcopsonofafuckingbitchcough*

Is that through with him being free?