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What would you do if you found an exploit on FA?


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11 hours ago, AyGee said:

Oh look, FA's down as of this post.  I wonder... :V

And if we're lucky, it will stay down. The brown nosers of FA need to give the other ones a chance and see FA for what it really is.

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2 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

And if we're lucky, it will stay down. The brown nosers of FA need to give the other ones a chance and see FA for what it really is.

It's people like you that make it seem like there's only two groups of people: "brown nosers"/"white knights" and those who are anti-FA completely. 

While I'm not a butt-kisser, I do realize the importance of the site and its influence and I would rather it stay up, despite its 'incompetence.' Of course, we can and should blame FA for having security holes, but we cannot ignore the other side, those who attack the site, making it go down or causing some other issues, like mass deletion. Just because you can exploit a security hole doesn't mean you should. Think about the users, no one on FA deserves this.

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1 hour ago, PheagleAdler said:

It's people like you that make it seem like there's only two groups of people: "brown nosers"/"white knights" and those who are anti-FA completely. 

While I'm not a butt-kisser, I do realize the importance of the site and its influence and I would rather it stay up, despite its 'incompetence.' Of course, we can and should blame FA for having security holes, but we cannot ignore the other side, those who attack the site, making it go down or causing some other issues, like mass deletion. Just because you can exploit a security hole doesn't mean you should. Think about the users, no one on FA deserves this.

Oh get off your high horse, you're a butt-kisser through and through. 

Look, contrary to popular belief I actually have nothing against FA, just the idiots that run it. The site going down is actually a good thing from a technical standpoint because that means the admins have to address all the issue(s) they keep putting off. It's like, they don't understand prevention.    

Do you remember "Silver Eagle"? He was one of the people employed to work with the dev team to help build a better FA. He said so himself that the back-end code was a complete, utter trainwreck. When he successfully built a better alternative, 'neer & co took it upon themselves to not use it. Then when he launched it as an independent site (only for a few days), IMVU took him to court over it. From what I understand he wasn't in violation of any laws, unless he was in breach of an NDA.

So here we are, still stuck with the same clusterfuck we call FA, all because the staff refuse to accept any outside help to make it better.     

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

Oh get off your high horse, you're a butt-kisser through and through. 

Look, contrary to popular belief I actually have nothing against FA, just the idiots that run it. The site going down is actually a good thing from a technical standpoint because that means the admins have to address all the issue(s) they keep putting off. It's like, they don't understand prevention.    

Do you remember "Silver Eagle"? He was one of the people employed to work with the dev team to help build a better FA. He said so himself that the back-end code was a complete, utter trainwreck. When he successfully built a better FA  'neer & co took it upon themselves to not use it. Then when he launched it as an independent site (only for a few days), IMVU took him to court over it. From what I understand he wasn't un violation of any laws, unless he was in breach of an NDA.

So here we are, still stuck with the clusterfuck we call FA, all because the staff refuse to accept any outside help to make FA it better.     

I don't buttkiss and if you think otherwise, you really don't know me.

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On 5/15/2016 at 4:39 AM, root said:

Genuinely curious :-)

I'd probably yawn at it and move on. These days, it's doubtful that I'm the one to discover vulnerabilities in FA, and I figure that a vulnerability found is a vulnerability best exploited by somebody else.

Addendum: I'd likely not report it because of how past performances over the last decade have played out. (Yes, yes, "past performance does not predict future outcome," but given that none of the actors involved have changed, I'd say it's all quite statistically likely to take the same course.)

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FA needs to die. 

I also don't have anything against the site itself, or want to see the users screwed over. 

But lookee lookee. They got screwed over. 

Dont try to put the blame solely on the hackers. While they are cretainly not in the right, a huge part of the blame is on the shoulders of the site administration. 

'Neer and co. have been warned of something like this happening for years. And now they've let potentially thousands of hard working artists get ass-fucked  

If I were a serious artist, I would not be coming back. 

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Also i don't think this is surprising considering the FA source code is out from that exploit, and would'nt be surprised if it's all over the internet by now. Since the exploit was discovered weeks ago before this. plus there are far more security holes on an old site like FA which should have taken security seriously over functionality. So even if it's patched up the point is source code out so would not be surprised to see more of these incidents in the future.

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16 minutes ago, RTDragon said:

Also i don't think this is surprising considering the FA source code is out from that exploit, and would'nt be surprised if it's all over the internet by now.

If I only knew where to look. I'm dying to see how they implemented a few things.

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Numerous people have offered help to dragoneer over the years and he turned down all of them

he finally brings someone on and surprisingly enough it was a white hat hacker

he and his "PR" guy (lol) Chase don't seem to have two brain cells to rub together anymore

 

keep covering it up in good ole FA style and telling everyone to relax and that everything is fine

all while the site is hacked repeatedly because you're too goddamn stubborn and prideful to accept help from people that know more than you 

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Not that I want to seem like I'm advertising, but if this really is the big one for FA I'm pretty much going to have to reupload my gallery and gain new watches from near-scratch.

I've been slowly working on posting my stuff on Weasyl, if anyone cares to check it out: https://www.weasyl.com/~aygee

Nothing new compared to my FA as of yet.  I may also check out Furry Network, since that name seems to be flying around a lot.

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Quote

Yes, it does, because if you don't exploit it to ensure it gets fixed, then someone else will exploit it to make sure you lose all your stuff. You are nowhere near qualified to be speaking on this subject.

There are better ways to assure it gets patched than taking an entire site down and screwing artists who depend upon the site for their income. Period. Screw the assholes at FA, I could care less, but do not screw the people who make their living on it. No one has that right. 

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32 minutes ago, redheadturk said:

There are better ways to assure it gets patched than taking an entire site down and screwing artists who depend upon the site for their income. Period. Screw the assholes at FA, I could care less, but do not screw the people who make their living on it. No one has that right. 

It is unethical to exploit vulnerabilities in the site code, but it is even less ethical than that to allow reported remote-exploitable vulnerabilities to go uncorrected and to foster an environment of fear and distrust so great that most discovered vulnerabilities go unreported.

Although I'd be surprised if the vulnerability exploited Monday was previously reported to FA, I would not be surprised in the least if it was previously discovered by someone else.

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1 hour ago, redheadturk said:

There are better ways to assure it gets patched than taking an entire site down and screwing artists who depend upon the site for their income. Period. Screw the assholes at FA, I could care less, but do not screw the people who make their living on it. No one has that right. 

I have something to say here on these parts
"you have shitty business practices if you are reliant on a website"

to which my addon being

"especially one that is known to have serious problems"

It's the reason why the artist who have actually GOOD business practices are not really hampered by FA being down cause "whelp, guess I'll just keep being active on other sites" and also the reason why many artist turned off notes and make those who want to commission em do it via filling out a form or actually email their business account.

They learned the SEVERAL times FA had problems to be actually up and about in other places, even folks who got banned from FA continue to make money just fine...

Its like you selling a thing at ONE SPECIFIC STORE, and then that one specific store is gone...

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The ethical way to handle an exploit is to report it and give the affected party a reasonable period of time in which you agree not to publicly disclose the exploit. This gives them time to actually fix it. If they don't fix it within a reasonable time, then you're in the right to publicly disclose it so that everyone else will know there's a problem.

At no point is it ethical to actually use an exploit to make a point. It's also a great way to get dragged in on felony charges.

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3 hours ago, 6tails said:

Every fucking one of them deserves what they get for knowingly and willingly using a site run by incompetent, corrupt, and lying sacks of shit like Dragoneer, and ignoring everyone's warnings.

Yes, it does, because if you don't exploit it to ensure it gets fixed, then someone else will exploit it to make sure you lose all your stuff. You are nowhere near qualified to be speaking on this subject.

Get the hell off the internet right now then. You know damn well how large the site is, and people, especially artists, should not be ridiculed for doing business on a site that's likely to get them the most customers.

8 minutes ago, Deskai said:

I have something to say here on these parts
"you have shitty business practices if you are reliant on a website"

to which my addon being

"especially one that is known to have serious problems"

It's the reason why the artist who have actually GOOD business practices are not really hampered by FA being down cause "whelp, guess I'll just keep being active on other sites" and also the reason why many artist turned off notes and make those who want to commission em do it via filling out a form or actually email their business account.

They learned the SEVERAL times FA had problems to be actually up and about in other places, even folks who got banned from FA continue to make money just fine...

Its like you selling a thing at ONE SPECIFIC STORE, and then that one specific store is gone...

Do tell me what alternatives are as large as FA? Do you see any? No matter if anyone uses alternative sites in addition to FA, they will still lose a lot of business if FA goes down.

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4 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

Do tell me what alternatives are as large as FA? Do you see any? No matter if anyone uses alternative sites in addition to FA, they will still lose a lot of business if FA goes down.

A business will continue on

thats the WHOLE FUCKING POINT

Business.Continues.ON

 

If it stops...you fucked up, its on you
Its why those who DID leave FA are actually STILL doing fine showing you DON'T need FA to live, you need to practice GOOD business.

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4 hours ago, Endless/Nameless said:

FA needs to die. 

I also don't have anything against the site itself, or want to see the users screwed over. 

But lookee lookee. They got screwed over. 

Dont try to put the blame solely on the hackers. While they are cretainly not in the right, a huge part of the blame is on the shoulders of the site administration. 

'Neer and co. have been warned of something like this happening for years. And now they've let potentially thousands of hard working artists get ass-fucked  

If I were a serious artist, I would not be coming back. 

If you were a serious artist, you would know how many more customers you had the potential to reach if you kept using FA. That's why they keep coming back. None of these other sites have this potential.

Just now, Deskai said:

A business will continue on

thats the WHOLE FUCKING POINT

Business.Continues.ON

 

If it stops...you fucked up, its on you
Its why those who DID leave FA are actually STILL doing fine showing you DON'T need FA to live, you need to practice GOOD business

"Doing fine" by what? Making half as much as they used to?

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3 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

 

"Doing fine" by what? Making half as much as they used to?

Actually they make the same, or actually MORE cause since they are on multiple websites they are then exposed to much more people.

Fans will follow their artist on other sites cause they wish to continue to see their artist art...

 

again: if you sell only at ONE SPECIFIC store and that store is gone...its your fault. A GOOD business sell at multiple stores as if a store goes down, well their customers can still get the product at another.

FA may have numbers, but its up to the person themselves to make sure their business keeps going. That means not relying on FA notes, having a presence on other sites, and also use invoicing when receiving payments...

 

Cause one day FA gonna crash hard again, and those folks gonna bitch again about their business, and I'll be "You idiots,why have you not learned from LAST TIME and practice GOOD business practices..."

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8 minutes ago, 6tails said:

When the opposition has abandoned ethics by ignoring repeated warnings, ethics has already gone out the door and is no longer a factor in play.

 

You love to shill for FA. So, tell me, Mr. "I think  I have business sense" should they not be ridiculed for using the site when it's WIDELY KNOWN TO A. Be run by wholly incompetent staff. B. Be riddled with security vulnerabilities that would make first year coding students shake their heads C. Has been compromised many times D. has a track record of unreliability E. can't give full transparency with donation money F. actively tries to hide potential criminal activity like rape G. allows a known animal abuser on staff, among a plethora of other things?

 

Doing business on a site like that makes ZERO BUSINESS SENSE, despite the user base size.

I am shilling for artists, Mr. I-hate-FA. Don't be silly, for most artists it makes sense to 'bite the bullet' so to speak and use the site to reach potential customers, and for already well established artists, naturally they're going to stay on the site that keeps giving them business.

Their downtime record is horrible but it's still allowed many many artists to do business comfortably for years.

3 minutes ago, Deskai said:

Actually they make the same, or actually MORE cause since they are on multiple websites they are then exposed to much more people.

Fans will follow their artist on other sites cause they wish to continue to see their artist art...

 

again: if you sell only at ONE SPECIFIC store and that store is gone...its your fault. A GOOD business sell at multiple stores as if a store goes down, well their customers can still get the product at another.

FA may have numbers, but its up to the person themselves to make sure their business keeps going. That means not relying on FA notes, having a presence on other sites, and also use invoicing when receiving payments...

 

Cause one day FA gonna crash hard again, and those folks gonna bitch again about their business, and I'll be "You idiots,why have you not learned from LAST TIME and practice GOOD business practices..."

I would love to see the numbers on that, if you honestly think they're making MORE when FA goes down.

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4 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

I am shilling for artists, Mr. I-hate-FA. Don't be silly, for most artists it makes sense to 'bite the bullet' so to speak and use the site to reach potential customers, and for already well established artists, naturally they're going to stay on the site that keeps giving them business.

Their downtime record is horrible but it's still allowed many many artists to do business comfortably for years.

you are not shilling for artist

you are shilling for FA

If you WERE shilling for artist you would of actually accepted the idea of THOSE artist being on other sites, to make sure they are continuously getting business even if FA goes down, and to not heavily RELY on FA but to USE FA as part of their business system...

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2 minutes ago, Deskai said:

you are not shilling for artist

you are shilling for FA

If you WERE shilling for artist you would of actually accepted the idea of THOSE artist being on other sites, to make sure they are continuously getting business even if FA goes down, and to not heavily RELY on FA but to USE FA as part of their business system...

I do accept the idea of artists being on multiple sites, but FA is like the Wal-mart of furry sites. If Wal-mart dies, then you have dinkier stores like K-mart or Sears that don't measure up. IF another site reaches the caliber of FA, I will change my tune, but I don't see it happening.

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6 minutes ago, 6tails said:

That's because you've kept your head in FA's sand shilling for them, and haven't looked at Furry Network, which despite my dislike for Varka I can easily see and root for stomping the shit out of FA.

I have looked at Furry Network and I have an account there. It doesn't have the potential to become as large as FA. The way it's set up, it's more of a social network, like Facebook. It's not like I can set up notifications for specific artists on there.

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5 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

I do accept the idea of artists being on multiple sites, but FA is like the Wal-mart of furry sites. If Wal-mart dies, then you have dinkier stores like K-mart or Sears that don't measure up. IF another site reaches the caliber of FA, I will change my tune, but I don't see it happening.

But heres the thing

you dont actually support the artist STILL

If an artist is on another SITE, their fanbase will also be on those SITES

If we use Walmart...while they are far reaching (owning other businesses outside of america) in america itself there are ares where there ISNT a walmart still. Using florida as an example (cause I live here) it has competition with PUBLIX which walmarts only advantage being "24 hours" which publix tend to close around 10 or 11pm.

While those stores have "specifics" they are still stores that can easily pick up the slack if all walmarts happen to just disappear....

 

Artist should NEVER rely on a website, only USE em...

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Just now, 6tails said:

Uhh, FN is way more scalable and flexible than FA. The framework is far more extensible which means your little feature is literally trivial to implement.

It's so extensible that it's already got an Imgfur indexer made for it. HOORAY STICKING WITH INTERNET STANDARDS!

And that's the reason why FN won't become as popular or replace FA. That's a feature most of us have come to rely on.

3 minutes ago, Deskai said:

 

you dont actually support the artist STILL

If an artist is on another SITE, their fanbase will also be on those SITES

If we use Walmart...while they are far reaching (owning other businesses outside of america) in america itself there are ares where there ISNT a walmart still. Using florida as an example (cause I live here) it has competition with PUBLIX which walmarts only advantage being "24 hours" which publix tend to close around 10 or 11pm.

While those stores have "specifics" they are still stores that can easily pick up the slack if all walmarts happen to just disappear....

 

Most of these stores can't just pick up and replace every Wal-Mart with one of their own, Publix included.

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While I do feel bad for the artists that have their business affected by something like FA going down, I also see it going down and being discouraged for use for the better of artists as a whole, because it means people will leave.
Having people leave will bring attention to better sites, which will in turn lessen FA's monopolization of the art side of the fanbase, and artists' reliance on using it despite its numerous issues.

It continuing the way it has is just a self-sustaining problem, honestly.
Sometimes, inconvenient things need to happen for better overall outcomes.

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Just now, 6tails said:

You really fail to read everything, don't you. It's trivial to implement. The site's STILL IN BETA. That means plenty, PLENTY of time and room to improve and add things.

Which they have been doing, if you bothered paying attention to their Twitter feed.

Why is it so 'trivial' to them if it's a key feature of many furry art sites? If they ever want to be considered a key replacement to FA, they'll implement a notifications system.

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13 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

Most of these stores can't just pick up and replace every Wal-Mart with one of their own, Publix included.

actually yes these stores can EASILY pick up Walmart's slack if its gone...thats how it works as anything sold in walmart...is actually sold in OTHER STORES. as note "the only reason Walmart beat out Kmart is cause they but more work into their isles and customer service" the problem is for Walmart in Florida is "Publix actually do a better job of that than walmart, Walmart only exist cause theres so many of em in florida"

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2 minutes ago, Deskai said:

actually yes these stores can EASILY pick up Walmart's slack if its gone...thats how it works as anything sold in walmart...is actually sold in OTHER STORES. as note "the only reason Walmart beat out Kmart is cause they but more work into their isles and customer service" the problem is for Walmart in Florida is "Publix actually do a better job of that than walmart, Walmart only exist cause theres so many of em in florida"

And you're going to travel 100 miles to get to one of these stores, right?

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5 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

And you're going to travel 100 miles to get to one of these stores, right?

and this is an example of "how to shill for a thing" example 1: Goal post moving by using something that DOESNT HAPPEN

I have no idea where you live where stores are about 100 miles apart (car dealerships is a different thing, there's actually rules about how close one car dealership can be to another if they are selling the same brand of cars) but I live in florida where on average Store A is across the street from STORE B, while store C-F are about 2-3 more miles away...

 

 

TRY AGAIN

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4 minutes ago, 6tails said:

You really fail to read everything, as I said. You don't read their Twitter, nor their progress blog.

beingworkedon.png

 

Well then, we'll see what happens. I still don't see a comparable audience joining FN, there are so many more established sites at this point.

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1 hour ago, PheagleAdler said:

If you were a serious artist, you would know how many more customers you had the potential to reach if you kept using FA. That's why they keep coming back. None of these other sites have this potential.

And that's the crux of the matter. It's all about userbase.

You can go and make the nicest FA alternative out there, but it won't gain traction because people gravitate to where everyone else is. 

That leaves two ways that FA will topple:

1.) Someone will create a similar-yet-different service to lure users over subtly. Like what Twitter tried to do with Facebook a few years back, or what IM apps did to SMS. Users won't consider it as a FA replacement at first, so they'll feel free to use both; but eventually people will gravitate to the better option. Unfortunately, no sites have yet been able to accomplish this with significant success.

2.) They'll burn, and someone will rebuild from the ashes. Like how Phoenix was born from the wreckage of FAF. One day FA will go down permanently, or they'll get taken under new management and gutted, etc. In such a case, by all hopes something better will grow from it. 

I belive that this recent attack on FA was an ill-guided attempt to facilitate the latter scenario. 

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Just now, 6tails said:

They said that about McDonald's and Dunkin Donuts and Krispy Kreme for coffee. Then Starbucks came along.

I can point out plenty more historical examples.

You can naysay all you want, but until you grasp the concept of 'Beta-stage Software' I say you're not qualified to speak on the potential of one site or another.

Do tell me how well Inkbunny and Sofurry are doing with their userbases, they're both practically ghost towns. Weasyl is a more recent addition, but I don't see any more growth there either.

This is not the mid 2000s, where sites like FA are just starting to come on the scene. I feel the same about social networks like Facebook. They came into the market at the right time, other sites coming into the market today will struggle to surpass them, even if the new sites are superior.

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3 minutes ago, Endless/Nameless said:

And that's the crux of the matter. It's all about userbase.

You can go and make the nicest FA alternative out there, but it won't gain traction because people gravitate to where everyone else is. 

That leaves two ways that FA will topple:

1.) Someone will create a similar-yet-different service to lure users over subtly. Like what Twitter tried to do with Facebook a few years back, or what IM apps did to SMS. Users won't consider it as a FA replacement at first, so they'll feel free to use both; but eventually people will gravitate to the better option. Unfortunately, no sites have yet been able to accomplish this with significant success.

2.) They'll burn, and someone will rebuild from the ashes. Like how Phoenix was born from the wreckage of FAF. One day FA will go down permanently, or they'll get taken under new management and gutted, etc. In such a case, by all hopes something better will grow from it. 

I belive that this recent attack on FA was an ill-guided attempt to facilitate the latter scenario. 

and thats understandable as each site have their OWN thing

like how on SoFurry there's a market place...A MARKET PLACE where one can not only open up commissions thru it but also folks can put up requests and how much money they are willing to spend.

Or how on other sites you can go link to other sites as how on SoFurry its FA!Deskai, it will then auto link to my FA page for artist who are on another site instead.

Other sites so far have been putting out to have artist be networked, heck some even have the ability to automatically port your whole gallery to their site.

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13 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

Do tell me how well Inkbunny and Sofurry are doing with their userbases, they're both practically ghost towns. Weasyl is a more recent addition, but I don't see any more growth there either.

This is not the mid 2000s, where sites like FA are just starting to come on the scene. I feel the same about social networks like Facebook. They came into the market at the right time, other sites coming into the market today will struggle to surpass them, even if the new sites are superior.

InkBunny is doing fine as thats where most of the banned artist end up on with less restrictions on their uploads, SoFurry is actually picking up each time FA goes down but its still big for those who write as FA has small love for Writers but SoFurry push itself harder on being a community than art site so thats probably why they are relatively quiet. Weasyl....well its Weasyl and its doing JUST ok but its still mostly quiet...

6 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

it's great to network yourself, but you fail to understand that you're not going to have the reach that you had on FA. That's just a fact.

....

70febcb3bd5a46566ed063da1e23a8ed60cef5e0.gif

I...

I think you dont know what you just said mean\

Networking means "to have a reach" meaning if you are on JUST FA...you dont have much reach overall

If you are on other sites + FA you have much more reach for folks to get your...product

 

 

I mean we just gone over how if you sell to JUST walmart and walmart disappear...you gonna get no business but if you sell to multiple stores you gonna keep on getting business if one goes down...

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6 minutes ago, Deskai said:

InkBunny is doing fine as thats where most of the banned artist end up on with less restrictions on their uploads, SoFurry is actually picking up each time FA goes down but its still big for those who write as FA has small love for Writers but SoFurry push itself harder on being a community than art site so thats probably why they are relatively quiet. Weasyl....well its Weasyl and its doing JUST ok but its still mostly quiet...

....

70febcb3bd5a46566ed063da1e23a8ed60cef5e0.gif

I...

I think you dont know what you just said mean\

Networking means "to have a reach" meaning if you are on JUST FA...you dont have much reach overall

If you are on other sites + FA you have much more reach for folks to get your...product

 

 

I mean we just gone over how if you sell to JUST walmart and walmart disappear...you gonna get no business but if you sell to multiple stores you gonna keep on getting business if one goes down...

Where are most of your fans/customers? On FA. If FA goes down, some of these people will be able to watch you on other sites, but not everyone.

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Something I just want to say is that most of the artists I follow on FA have other accounts.  Some use Weasyl, some Inkbunny, some SoFurry and so on.  I don't use any of them.  You know why?  Because I can follow all the artists I care about on FA.  Why go through the process of setting up accounts and following dozens of artists over several sites?

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1 minute ago, 6tails said:

You must be new to the fandom and not remember/know of the Great Furnation Death.

Not particularly new, but I know that it'll take more than an "At some point in the future it may go down forever" argument to make me abondon something which still works for me

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2 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

Where are most of your fans/customers? On FA. If FA goes down, some of these people will be able to watch you on other sites, but not everyone.

actually most of my Fans and Customers are on SoFurry, BUT

If we are gonna use this example I'm gonna be full on asshole about it

IF one practice GOOD business practices: you will get the most of your customers on FA...those same customers though are ALSO on those other sites you are on. FA goes down, and well nothing much happens cause your customers are already following you on those sites and business continues as usual. You also ask your customers to not give images via links but actually as things you can download or use a third party image sharing site (or my fave drop box which they recently added that if an image was moved from a spot the link to the image will still work). 

IF one RELIES on FA: you are then stuck waiting for FA to come back up cause not only does your Customer did their stuff via note, they only provided images via links to FA submissions (which theres a chance it may be gone if it was within that 6 day period)


I still dont see how "Being JUST on FA" is better than "being everywhere where your fanbase will actually be spread around and you can get new people too"

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2 minutes ago, Deskai said:

actually most of my Fans and Customers are on SoFurry, BUT

If we are gonna use this example I'm gonna be full on asshole about it

IF one practice GOOD business practices: you will get the most of your customers on FA...those same customers though are ALSO on those other sites you are on. FA goes down, and well nothing much happens cause your customers are already following you on those sites and business continues as usual. You also ask your customers to not give images via links but actually as things you can download or use a third party image sharing site (or my fave drop box which they recently added that if an image was moved from a spot the link to the image will still work). 

IF one RELIES on FA: you are then stuck waiting for FA to come back up cause not only does your Customer did their stuff via note, they only provided images via links to FA submissions (which theres a chance it may be gone if it was within that 6 day period)


I still dont see how "Being JUST on FA" is better than "being everywhere where your fanbase will actually be spread around and you can get new people too"

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. It's great to network and I fully support it, but you need to realize that not all of your customers are going to be on other sites and you will lose some of them. I don't see how else I can convince you that you would not receive the amount of commissions that you do on FA. 

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9 minutes ago, Ketra said:

Something I just want to say is that most of the artists I follow on FA have other accounts.  Some use Weasyl, some Inkbunny, some SoFurry and so on.  I don't use any of them.  You know why?  Because I can follow all the artists I care about on FA.  Why go through the process of setting up accounts and following dozens of artists over several sites?

Cause of things like this happening...I still get to see art, and some of them are still continuing as business as usual like how one artist got someone to autobuy a YCH.

I guess its also a mentality of artist vs viewer as artist WILL have to be everywhere to keep business as usual but viewers dont really care much of being everywhere else.

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3 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. It's great to network and I fully support it, but you need to realize that not all of your customers are going to be on other sites and you will lose some of them. I don't see how else I can convince you that you would not receive the amount of commissions that you do on FA. 

Except thats hardly the case? All my customers from FA exported themselves to my Twitter once they were AWARE I had a twitter, much like how Haychel always puts up his commission rules and terms on external website. The artists/vendors create awareness and invoke alternative avenues for when the shit stain that is FA does decide to go belly up (which is a quarterly trend). 

 

So uh, by using those other sites and making it known on FA, I'm not really sure what you're getting at here other than to perform the dance steps that were washed into your brain by Furrhurr Dragoneer.

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5 minutes ago, Deskai said:

Cause of things like this happening...I still get to see art, and some of them are still continuing as business as usual like how one artist got someone to autobuy a YCH.

I guess its also a mentality of artist vs viewer as artist WILL have to be everywhere to keep business as usual but viewers dont really care much of being everywhere else.

I am on most of the other 'major' furry networks, but I know a lot of others are not, including artists. 

Just now, Toshabi said:

Except thats hardly the case? All my customers from FA exported themselves to my Twitter once they were AWARE I had a twitter, much like how Haychel always puts up his commission rules and terms on external website. The artists/vendors create awareness and invoke alternative avenues for when the shit stain that is FA does decide to go belly up (which is a quarterly trend). 

 

So uh, by using those other sites and making it known on FA, I'm not really sure what you're getting at here other than to perform the dance steps that were washed into your brain by Furrhurr Dragoneer.

You must not have a lot of customers. Don't consider me brainwashed because I'm not an idiot. I know plenty of furs that don't even have a Twitter. I also know several artists with a lot of followers who won't get near that many on other sites, you're the brainwashed one if you think they would. It's easy if you have like 5-10 followers, but thousands, it's very unlikely you'll see them all on another site.

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2 minutes ago, PheagleAdler said:

I am on most of the other 'major' furry networks, but I know a lot of others are not, including artists. 

I'm on all of them, and many artist are actually on them, you may notice since FA going down, suddenly these other sites are getting uploads by these artist.

Thus why I come to accept the whole Artist vs Viewer mentality of Viewers tend to not move from a spot until it dies or they are removed. Being a person who does do art (mainly a colourist and learning about animations) I do notice artist being elsewhere cause they actually practice GOOD business practice...

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Well it took me a while to read this mess especially since this reminds me of console fever. (Some people need to read the dictionary to know what shill is and this thread is a fine example of it.) Your even worse that the game devs on steam.

1 hour ago, PheagleAdler said:

If you were a serious artist, you would know how many more customers you had the potential to reach if you kept using FA. That's why they keep coming back. None of these other sites have this potential.

"Doing fine" by what? Making half as much as they used to?

Well considering that  you really forget that there are professional art sites like artstation CGhub and Conceptart.org yeah you actually can make more money on professional art sites then hobby sites. That's why networking and doing a variety of art is important it's really clear that furry fetish art won't work on those sites or fanart but there's still a lot to learn.

1 hour ago, Deskai said:

Actually they make the same, or actually MORE cause since they are on multiple websites they are then exposed to much more people.

Fans will follow their artist on other sites cause they wish to continue to see their artist art...

 

again: if you sell only at ONE SPECIFIC store and that store is gone...its your fault. A GOOD business sell at multiple stores as if a store goes down, well their customers can still get the product at another.

FA may have numbers, but its up to the person themselves to make sure their business keeps going. That means not relying on FA notes, having a presence on other sites, and also use invoicing when receiving payments...

 

Cause one day FA gonna crash hard again, and those folks gonna bitch again about their business, and I'll be "You idiots,why have you not learned from LAST TIME and practice GOOD business practices..."

Also there one factor that also makes FA not a good place for a business standpoint if you were trying to go for a professional job. Considering how fursites are known for porn and sadly there's has not been a clean dedicated furry art sites pretty much only reinforces this point. (Considering the only ones i know is artspots and yerf and they're gone.)

And from what i've noticed over the years is FA has become more and more disturbing with a lot of stuff that seems to be on the news with the recent incident as well as porn being the most popular which makes it really difficult for SFW artists. So the furry stereotype is reinforced.

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