Cingal Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 1 minute ago, Clove Darkwave said: This is very simple, Cingal. Staff absolutely cannot, positively cannot, account for every last little situation or minute interpretation that could arise from any given post. You all as users agree to to give us some modicum of trust and respect in that we do our best to keep Phoenixed a healthy environment for everyone to post in and enjoy themselves. We have to retain some small ability to do whatever is needed to serve that interest. We have a set of rules we're always working on that we all agree to follow, not just the users but the staff as well (we actually have even more rules to follow.) Sure, but that's why you have some vague guidelines in place. Even in the incredibly vague guidelines we have now, there's absolutely nothing that says, "Mods can decide something and everyone must follow". As such, if you're going to do something that's completely off the book, has no present and isn't even vaguely hinted at in the rules we do have, maybe inform the community at large before hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 12 minutes ago, Clove Darkwave said: In the meantime, please stop ignoring moderator requests. I'm going to issue one right now for this thread to drop the usage of "Retarded". You're joking right? Please tell me you're joking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArielMT Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, Amiir said: You're joking right? Please tell me you're joking You don't understand why it's plainly offensive? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 1 minute ago, ArielMT said: You don't understand why it's plainly offensive? I'm sorry, from now on I will call people doo-doo heads and pee faces Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Uhm, you probably shouldn't call people names on a forum, regardless. Doesn't really matter what word you use, it'll typically come off as crude and immature. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelwell Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Just now, Lucyfish said: Uhm, you probably shouldn't call people names on a forum, regardless. Doesn't really matter what word you use, it'll typically come off as crude and immature. Well now you're being a 2 minutes ago, Amiir said: doo-doo head but it really is inevitable in a forum, all the moderators can do is moderate it. Just be glad it isn't an automated system like, Youtube, that can be abused to hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 3 minutes ago, Lucyfish said: Uhm, you probably shouldn't call people names on a forum, regardless. Doesn't really matter what word you use, it'll typically come off as crude and immature. If people are stupid I can't resist to let them know ----- Anyway, I have to go to bed now. I'm eager to see how this develops. We'll have some more fun tomorrow. That is if I still can be arsed with this giant mountain of horseshit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Just now, 6tails said: Funny to hear from someone with what is otensibly a derogatory term (aka a name) in their user title. Call yourself whatever you want, I don't give a Pastry's ass. :B 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 7 minutes ago, Amiir said: No. These are all excuses and that's that But it's not. This is a pretty basic guideline all forums follow. It's kind of like how you can't disclose who accused you of a crime, and why doctors can't disclose information about patients without permission. Additionally, that also compromises people's willingness to report things. so I'm not about to namedrop people in a public thread 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 2 minutes ago, Lucyfish said: Uhm, you probably shouldn't call people names on a forum, regardless. Doesn't really matter what word you use, it'll typically come off as crude and immature. We can call people who aren't on the forum names though. For example, Chase is a dog-raping faggot asshole who should be have his dick ravaged by wolves. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 1 minute ago, willow said: But it's not. This is a pretty basic guideline all forums follow. It's kind of like how you can't disclose who accused you of a crime, and why doctors can't disclose information about patients without permission. Additionally, that also compromises people's willingness to report things. so I'm not about to namedrop people in a public thread Blablabla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Just now, 6tails said: Except you've demonstrated that you had a problem with someone calling themselves a tranny. What a stunning fucking double standard! do you know what a pun is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Just now, 6tails said: Except you've demonstrated that you had a problem with someone calling themselves a tranny. What a stunning fucking double standard! When did I say that? I don't remember ever saying that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewalk Surfboard Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Just now, 6tails said: Except you've demonstrated that you had a problem with someone calling themselves a tranny. What a stunning fucking double standard! 6tails you wanted to sue someone because you were being a dick and threatened to DDoS the forum, you have no right to speak 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallium Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I should in a way apologize for the shitstorm I accidentally started I missed the memo that we shouldnt be using those words somewhere ...see the thing is I get where peeps are coming from because in outside circles it can be considered offensive. However, inside our circles I just happened to pick up on our culture (not just here but other communities too) in which we happen to use derogatory slang terms amongst each other in an ironic, satirical way which parodies the vitriol outsiders use to sling at us, but that we instead take pride in. In a way, this is probably a lesson for me to not be so lose with words everywhere since others could take offense, for that Im sorry... It does suck getting in trouble for it, Imma gud wulfie who do no wrawng! Ah swuer! Kinda reminiscent a la neo-FA where a mod said I couldnt post the word 'dicks' as a satirical response to "What makes a furry artist popular" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, WolfNightV4X1 said: Kinda reminiscent a la neo-FA where a mod said I couldnt post the word 'dicks' as a satirical response to "What makes a furry artist popular" What the flying shit 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, 6tails said: Fish Face was used as a derogatory term for Chinese and Irish fishmongers in the beginning 1900s. So it's okay to hang onto one dated ass term but not another (Fish face vs retarded.) Gotcha. "Fishhead" is the slur you're looking for, actually. Gotcha. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, 6tails said: Fish Face was used as a derogatory term for Chinese and Irish fishmongers in the beginning 1900s. So it's okay to hang onto one dated ass term but not another. When have you ever heard someone seriously refer to someone as "fishface" in a derogatory sense? Like ever? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelwell Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, WolfNightV4X1 said: In a way, this is probably a lesson for me to not be so lose with words everywhere since others could take offense, for that Im sorry... It would've happened either way, and it's probably a good time to get it out of the way and deal with it. Could've happened at a much worse time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cingal Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Lucyfish said: "Fishhead" is the slur you're looking for, actually. Gotcha. Well, if anyone would know, Fishface. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewalk Surfboard Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 minute ago, 6tails said: Fish Face was used as a derogatory term for Chinese and Irish fishmongers in the beginning 1900s. So it's okay to hang onto one dated ass term but not another (Fish face vs retarded.) Gotcha. It is apparent that you are in slim pickings for things to give people shit about. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, 6tails said: No, that refers specifically to the Japanese. No, it is actually a blanket slur for all Asian people, particularly Japan and those from southern Asian countries like Vietnam. "Fish face" is a random slur you just made up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, 6tails said: Since working in a freaking oriental market at the age of 15, almost 20 years ago, on an almost daily basis. FUN FACT: "Oriental" is also considered a slur when applied to people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 3 minutes ago, 6tails said: Children should be seen and not heard. Woof that's giving me flashbacks to my childhood. But I mean, they're also a member too. Their age doesnt discredit their thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 minute ago, 6tails said: Fish Face was used as a derogatory term for Chinese and Irish fishmongers in the beginning 1900s. So it's okay to hang onto one dated ass term but not another (Fish face vs retarded.) Gotcha. false. a fish face is someone who looks like a fish (read: ugly or deformed). it's also used to describe someone who's incredibly greedy it's kind of obvious what Lucy's referring to though. her 'sona's a shark 2 minutes ago, 6tails said: You're a child with no idea about the legal system. Children should be seen and not heard. It's not libel if you're actually harassing someone... anyway, be civil 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelwell Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 You are alllllll being dinguses. and just descending into arguments about origins of insults. It really isn't helping the forum create a working system for slurs and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cingal Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, PastryOfApathy said: FUN FACT: "Oriental" is also considered a slur when applied to people. This actually makes for very awkward moments in England. "Asian" refers to people of Middle-Asian descent. "East-Asian" isn't really a used term and "Oriential" used to be the term, but, became offensive. As such, we just don't have a word to refer to "That guy over there who's... Chinese or something?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vae Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I'm in agreement with the idea that users should be allowed to refer to themselves as derogatory term [x], but not other people. This is how slurs tend to work, in general. "Ohnoes! But that means I can't use a few individual words, that I don't have to use, just because I want to! Oppression! Hitler! Literally Tumblr! I'm telling my mom!" Expand your vocabulary, or cry some more. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArielMT Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 22 minutes ago, Lucyfish said: If I were part of the staff, here's how I would personally lay out this issue. In my experience with forum modding, I've found it pays to not be some strict "by-the-books" type of a mod at all times, but rather openly deal with overly ambiguous situations as separate instances. You can set up a blanket rule that leaves certain interpretations or contexts alone, but allows enforcement and compromise where it is needed. And just to clarify, not every situation is ambiguous. Sometimes it's blatantly obvious when a word is being used offensively. That's basically what we've been doing or trying to do all along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, ArielMT said: That's basically what we've been doing or trying to do all along. I'm sorry, but with some of the recent "warnings" given out, it hasn't seemed that way. I don't think a mod should be allowed to go in a thread and say "Okay, this word is banned in this thread, no matter what the context is." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newt Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 make me a mod and i will act as the conservative that vetoes all this dumb sjw bullshit 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 the context of a word is awfully challenging to make principles and guidelines over, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, evan said: the context of a word is awfully challenging to make principles and guidelines over, isn't it? Particularly a steady, unchanging rule. I think it's an instance where situational and contextual awareness has to be had before a decision can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, Vae said: I'm in agreement with the idea that users should be allowed to refer to themselves as derogatory term [x], but not other people. This is how slurs tend to work, in general. "Ohnoes! But that means I can't use a few individual words, that I don't have to use, just because I want to! Oppression! Hitler! Literally Tumblr! I'm telling my mom!" Expand your vocabulary, or cry some more. You're missing the point. This is about being able to speak your mind without fear of censorship. Making a sweeping generalization about one side and claiming we're all a bunch of whiny neckbeards crying about tumblr is retarded. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evan Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Just now, Lucyfish said: Particularly a steady, unchanging rule. I think it's an instance where situational and contextual awareness has to be had before a decision can be made. I think that's what is stressful about this. I have yet to see anything here that isn't very black-and-white and lacks contextual consideration. "This word was used!" Yes, well? The nuances of statements varies widely and slang exists. "Don't tell me to not use this word!" And why? Just as being offended by a word validates its' potency as something more than a meaningless slang term, being offended by people who don't like that terminology just exhibits the same inability to accept that a word isn't that important. We can communicate in so many languages, yet it seems like the majority of us, in favour and against, choose to speak with salt. :v I realize I'm kind of white knighting. This just seems...fundamentally silly. It's the very basis of how words come to exist and we're unable to realize that there's a broad spectrum of interpretations for any given word. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Official mod final thoughts of this subject Okay. We don't want to do extremes. So this is what we're gonna do, that all mods agree on. We ban the usage of these words maliciously. How do you constitute whats used maliciously? We're gonna have to use our judgment. If you don't trust us.. I mean, at this point its tough shit. We're not gonna sit here and ban every word under the sun, nor are we gonna let anarchy fly. If you truly believe you didn't use your word maliciously, PM us. We're amendable to talking. We want to work with you. And banning every word altogether for ever is dumb and whats worse, unenforceable. If the use of a word is unclear on whether or not it is inappropriate, ie. outside of a joke or casually using it to describe a group, then parties involved can discuss it with staff so a compromise can be reached. Going forward its gonna mostly be case-by-case, save for particularly egregious circumstances. Them's the breaks. A solution that functions purely on the communication between us and you, without alienating those who take issue with the words, and alienating those who want to use certain words unencumbered. The next SOTU is being drafted as we speak. When we post it, we will be asking for input on how we phrase the rule to be added to the official rules, and not if the rule should be a thing. We've talked about it and will not be entertaining a tumblrite nor an anarchist rule solution. Trust us to talk to you first before we infract you, since we really don't want to do that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 A forum I was once a part of called EXE Warriors had one of their rules pretty much lay out the entire tone of how things in a forum ought to be. Quote Rule #4: Don't be a dick, you space nigger. Like, really, don't be a dick. It's very possible to use "offensive" words and be funny without being a dick. Being a dick includes: Being malicious. Using a negative slur to refer to the people it actually affects. Offending someone and then not caring enough to even say "Sorry about that, didn't mean to offend." Being an unfunny twat. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cingal Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 7 minutes ago, Lemon said: Them's the breaks. A solution that functions purely on the communication between us and you, without alienating those who take issue with the words, and alienating those who want to use certain words unencumbered. It might be a really good idea to actually communicate the rules properly before enforcing them, in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, 6tails said: So, still a derogatory term by that quoted definition, yes? So why is Lucy allowed to have that but Pastry not allowed to have Tranny? Again, sweeping double standard. Any word that is used to demean someone is considered derogatory technically, so that would mean words like stupid, fat, slow, lazy, etc. are all out. But obviously we're not going to ban all of those words because it'd be a nightmare to mod and we're not in Kindergarten. That being said, one is an actual transphobic slur, unless you're talking about cars or drag queens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard King Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 so can i call other people perverted weirdos since i am one? please don't appropriate it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Lizard King said: so can i call other people perverted weirdos since i am one? please don't appropriate it Every last goddamn one of us is a perverted weirdo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 2 minutes ago, 6tails said: Well, that'd be helpful if when you PMed a mod you'd get a response. I PMed the mod who warned me the other day asking for clarification regarding the infraction so that I would not repeat it, and I've still not heard jack shit. So, yea. How about you work on the response time? It's already looking like FA in that regards. Please. FA takes six months plus to respond. Anyways, feel free to PM that mod again, maybe they missed it. I'm really the only mod with a ton of free-time, but everyone else has full-time jobs so a touch of patience can be used there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Edited the OP to reflect the solution has been reached. New new readers know its been resolved and such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArielMT Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 4 minutes ago, Lemon said: Please. FA takes six months plus to respond. Anyways, feel free to PM that mod again, maybe they missed it. I'm really the only mod with a ton of free-time, but everyone else has full-time jobs so a touch of patience can be used there. Amplifying this. Using myself as an example, my workload and pet projects vary so much that I may have time to respond straight away or I may not be able to respond for a day or two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vae Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 24 minutes ago, PastryOfApathy said: You're missing the point. This is about being able to speak your mind without fear of censorship. Making a sweeping generalization about one side and claiming we're all a bunch of whiny neckbeards crying about tumblr is retarded. Censorship and social stigma on slurs exists IRL. I know furries tend to think they're some class that exists above and beyond what's generally acceptable, but this isn't exactly a new concept. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshleyAshes Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Vae said: Censorship and social stigma on slurs exists IRL. I know furries tend to think they're some class that exists above and beyond what's generally acceptable, but this isn't exactly a new concept. I prefer to just say too many furries are closet cases who's lived experience rarely extends outside of the internet or a few isolated pockets of the fandom in real life. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 1 minute ago, Vae said: Censorship and social stigma on slurs exists IRL. I know furries tend to think they're some class that exists above and beyond what's generally acceptable, but this isn't exactly a new concept. Never said that. Besides, I use supposed "slurs" with friends all the time so I don't know what you're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskai Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Whelp...as long as both parties come to an agreement cause I sure as hellion know that someone gonna bitch when a person uses a slur in a non harmful way and didn't get reprimanded.. Rules of Life dictated as a possibility then again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newt Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 I wonder if this will be a running theme where the mods impulsively implement something that the community objects to and have to change it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidewalk Surfboard Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Are you people ever fucking happy? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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