An Overwatch Thread

[Tsuujou]

...3 hours, fam?

Anyway, you can just reread my previous posts the situation. No one said you can't be good with her. There's pro smash players that use Palutena. You can be good with any character. Some are just bad. YOU claiming to be good with her doesn't exactly mean much. I mean, that's cool, but you're one person. 

[Derin Darkpaw]

@XoPachi Yeah except I responded to most of the points you made about her and your argument is that I should simply reread those same points that I already responded to?  That doesn't make any sense.

[Falaffel]

53 minutes ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

I don't get where all this D.Va hate is coming from I have over 3 hours logged as the character and a 77% win rate.  She is excellent at flushing out snipers thus protecting your team.  You call her a selfish tank, but that is a very simple way of seeing it where as I tend to play her as a proactive tank.  I keep threats off my team by chasing them down and pushing them away. 

Its hard to tell, but her Defense matrix doesn't just protect her it actually extends quite a bit outward and eliminates projectiles in the air if they happen to be in front of her.  You can observe this most readily observable against Junkrat because his bombs are large and slowly move through the air.  Also Defense Matrix can absorb the majority of Roadhog's ultimate with no ill effects which is something no other tank can do.

Her Ult has problems and sure it isn't likely to score a lot of kills but it guaranteed forces enemies to move away from a point or payload to a considerable distance if placed correctly and getting the enemy team away from the objective is how you really win games  Also you use it at low health and then right after words you summon your mech again for a full heal.

You claim but that her head being on her front makes her some sort of easier target to get headshots on, but guess what every character in the game has their head on the front of them.  They also have their heads on the side and back of them its a 360% target.  D.Va is essentially protected from headshots from various angles. 

Then on top of having a huge pool of hps with the most armor in the game if you get through all of that she isn't even dead.  She turns into a small decently mobile target with an accurate gun with a high rate of fire that is respectfully damaging.  Then if you don't kill the little girl quickly she summons her mech again for a full heal.

I am not saying she is the greatest character or that she is op just that she has her uses and she isn't worth counting out of the game. 

Also I like playing D.Va because I can almost always kill McCree 1v1 as her and I fucking hate McCree.

First of all, Defense Matrix is very situational. Against most fire, it doesn't last long enough to matter. You're better off with Reinhardt. The only times it's better it for zapping ults like Roadhogs or Hanzo's arrow before it pops, and so on. 

Her ult is also situational and should never actually get a kill. unless your enemies are slow minded, they should always hide. Or block it, because you can with Reinhardt and Zarya and Winston, yknow, the tanks that aren't D.Va because she's bad. 

Her 'head' being gigantic in the front is bad. It'll always be bad. you can only shoot forward, so if you're trying to kill someone with your half-assed pea-shooters, anyone mutilate your face. Armor will only take off 5 points of damage, and if that person is already doubling damage, it wouldn't matter. 

As for 1v1ing McCree, that McCree would have to be bad. It only takes a Flashbang and 9 bullets to kill her (or just 10 bullets). That's assuming no headshots because he's using fan the hammer. He's only using 1 and a half Fan the Hammers, which means his TTK, assuming he uses his roll, is less than or around 2 seconds. 
If a McCree misses that many shots on a giant ass mech, he should feel bad. 
Now, after you eject, it only takes 2-3 shots to kill you. However, by the time you're ejected, you're kinda useless anyways. 

[Tsuujou]

1 hour ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

@XoPachi Yeah except I responded to most of the points you made about her and your argument is that I should simply reread those same points that I already responded to?  That doesn't make any sense.

I'm saying I'll be a broken record. Everything you said I've already talked about in several previous posts. I'm not going to argue with you about it. If you like Dva, play Dva. Who cares? I just think she's bad and gave ample stance as to why. I can't really say anything I haven't already.

[Newt]

Just bought the game.

Newt#11196

PC

[PastryOfApathy]

9 hours ago, Lucyfish said:

I can't wait for McCree to be nerfed all the way to China. -u-

Jokes on you it's high noon in China. :^)

[Onnes]

15 hours ago, Falaffel said:

Since we're in a helping mood, how the fuck do I play Reinhardt?
I never feel useful.

I want to know how specifically because I just unlocked his Paragon skin and "Catch Phrase!" So I figure I oughta git gud with him.

Reinhardt's contribution in a given match depends a lot on your teammates and the map involved. To get the most out of him, your team needs to actually take advantage of the shield when engaging the enemy team, something which surprisingly few random players actually do.

The shield becomes less and less useful the more flanker types the opposing team is running. Blocking shots from one direction doesn't mean much if there's always a Tracer or Reaper behind you. Mei also counters him pretty hard, as can Junkrat with his concussion mine.

Reinhardt is extremely strong in close-range fights, but you have to get enough experience with him to figure out the timing for his charge and ultimate.

[Lucyfish]

Reinhardt really benefits on certain maps and with certain teams. I feel like he is strongest when he is on the attacking team of the payload maps. He can keep the team safe as long as the team is smart and they aren't getting flanked, and he is very good at clearing the way and providing a distraction. I honestly play him a lot like Winston, and it seems to really pay off.

[Falaffel]

So, apparently, if Reinhardt uses his shield just right, he can block the damage of Tracer's bomb even when it's stuck to someone. 

I stuck a bastion and because of Reinhardt, it did 0 damage to the bastion.

Needless to say, I was seething.

[Lucyfish]

@Onnes and @Eggdodger and a group of people all bullied me and my transgender friends. :C

[Tsuujou]

3 minutes ago, Lucyfish said:

@Onnes and @Eggdodger and a group of people all bullied me and my transgender friends. :C

[Onnes]

11 hours ago, Lucyfish said:

@Onnes and @Eggdodger and a group of people all bullied me and my transgender friends. :C

For those wondering what the context is here, the matchmaker actually managed to put both our groups into the same game and on opposite sides. 

It may automatically prefer to match you with people in your friends list when possible. 

[Lucyfish]

It was really fun, me and a Genji kept going headfirst at each other. x3

[Onnes]

If anyone is interested in team composition strategies, someone has taken the time to actually record team compositions in a recent competitive tournament.

https://ow-25.reddit.com/r/Overwatch/comments/4mt2il/recent_pro_team_compositions_a_map_by_map_guide/

McCree being absolutely everywhere is unsurprising. The huge prevalence of Lucio+Mercy and Lucio+Lucio teams is interesting, though, and Reinhardt is also absolutely everywhere on both defense and offense.

[Tsuujou]

It actually bothers me how you can have multiples of the same character on a team. :l

I didn't like that in Dirty Bomb either.

[Falaffel]

10 hours ago, XoPachi said:

It actually bothers me how you can have multiples of the same character on a team. :l

I didn't like that in Dirty Bomb either.

We won a game with 4 symmetras. I don't like it all that much, either, but I understand why it's there. Being able to freely switch no matter what can be nice. 

Though, in dirty bomb, it was more the case because characters were locked. 

Also, more salt!

[Tsuujou]

The ability to switch freely kind of sucks too, I think. I wish it had a lock in system like a moba. God help you if you're on an indecisive team. You're fucked since no one's getting their ult.

[Falaffel]

54 minutes ago, XoPachi said:

The ability to switch freely kind of sucks too, I think. I wish it had a lock in system like a moba. God help you if you're on an indecisive team. You're fucked since no one's getting their ult.

Ehhh... I disagree. Like, entirely. That's kinda the entire point of the game, being able to change freely. There are characters who shut down other characters. Straight up. To be locked into that kind of choice would be agonizing. You're useless. It's not like a moba where you can still kill minions or stay hidden until a team fight. You're just fucked. 

[Tsuujou]

Learn the matchup. Lol

[Falaffel]

Learn what matchup? I know, more or less, which characters counter which. Which best synergize with which team type. 

I like the fact that I can jump on Tracer if I need to pick away a backline, or switch to soldier: 76 if our frontline is lacking. 

It annoys me more when my team meets a wall and no one switches. We just continue to lose because of our set up. 

[Tsuujou]

Some people counter others, but if you play smart and talk with your team, there are ways around pretty much anything. 

I don't mind switching between points or rounds, but when people just switch because they're getting bodied before they even get an ult, that annoys me. And then they aren't even learning how to beat characters or how to utilize certain map features with their own character. They're just running from unfavorable situations, trying to play Rock, Paper, Scissors. 

I hope ranked play doesn't allow this, personally. 

[Falaffel]

Well, part of being good at the game is knowing when to switch. 

If you're being too frequent and not saving up that ult, you're, quite frankly, just fucking stupid. You're bad. That isn't the game's fault :v 

I always finish off my ult meter before switching, and I do my best to not swotch often. I switch maybe once a game. 

[Tsuujou]

4 hours ago, Falaffel said:

Well, part of being good at the game is knowing when to switch. 

If you're being too frequent and not saving up that ult, you're, quite frankly, just fucking stupid. You're bad. That isn't the game's fault :v 

I always finish off my ult meter before switching, and I do my best to not swotch often. I switch maybe once a game. 

I would be fine if you could only switch at "checkpoints" so to speak and get 10 seconds to choose a new character, but are locked until you lose or capture the next objective.

[Onnes]

Overwatch may be moba-like in how it treats character design and team composition, but it really doesn't play like a moba. There's no item or ability progression, which in actual mobas allow teams to tailor themselves to the enemy composition as the game progresses. There's also no room to avoid fights until your team is stronger; in Overwatch avoiding the map objective is the same as forfeiting the match.

A lot of the counter play in Overwatch instead comes from adjusting your team composition to fit the flow of the current game. There are a number of heroes like the builders (Symmetra, Torbjoern), snipers (Hanzo, Widowmaker), Zenyatta, Bastion, et al that are highly situational. If you couldn't swap them out when needed then they would be overly risky picks. The likely consequence would be teams standardized around the most competent all-around picks that lack hard counters.

[Deskai]

9 hours ago, Onnes said:

Overwatch may be moba-like in how it treats character design and team composition, but it really doesn't play like a moba. There's no item or ability progression, which in actual mobas allow teams to tailor themselves to the enemy composition as the game progresses. There's also no room to avoid fights until your team is stronger; in Overwatch avoiding the map objective is the same as forfeiting the match.

A lot of the counter play in Overwatch instead comes from adjusting your team composition to fit the flow of the current game. There are a number of heroes like the builders (Symmetra, Torbjoern), snipers (Hanzo, Widowmaker), Zenyatta, Bastion, et al that are highly situational. If you couldn't swap them out when needed then they would be overly risky picks. The likely consequence would be teams standardized around the most competent all-around picks that lack hard counters.

thats the reason why folks are comparing it to TF2 a lil cause in TF2 at least you can switch characters to deal with situations as they show up BUT, TF2 have two competitive modes: 6's and Highlander. Highlander is 9 vs 9, each person playing a TF2 character the whole match so it tends to be rather balanced, the thing is the 6's is where we see the "same team build" occur. The usual 6's team build is 1 medic, 1 demo, 2 soldiers and two scouts. I could understand more time between changing characters (its already set to respawn time or folks running back to the spawn area), but locking folks to one character sorta get very messy unless the person is quite efficient with said character. I'm not that kind of person, I'm a jack, I prefer learning all about the characters and playing em as good as I can but I'm also end up not being very good with anyone. 

[Derin Darkpaw]

So McCree and Widowmaker both got some nerfs in the most recent patch.  What are people's thoughts on the subject?

[Onnes]

1 hour ago, Derin Darkpaw said:

So McCree and Widowmaker both got some nerfs in the most recent patch.  What are people's thoughts on the subject?

Desperately needed. McCree was simply broken with his ability to take down tanks, and the nerf shouldn't hurt him at all when it comes to killing flankers.

Widowmaker also needed a nerf. But I really think she just needs to be reworked entirely. In a game where every other hero sees their damage potential fall off greatly beyond short ranges, having a one-hit-kill hitscan sniper with high mobility and global vision is just nuts. I doubt it's even possible to balance her current kit without her being either overpowered or useless.

[Newt]

McCree needed a nerf.

Widowmaker didn't get nerfed enough.

Mei, Bastion, and Roadhog also need some balancing.

D.Va needs a buff.

[Tsuujou]

A lot of people think Bastion is too mobile. I feel like slowing him down would make him garbage. He just needs a nerf to his turret. End lag on his heal. Spin up time on his minigun (a lot of chainguns in shooters do this now for balancing purposes). Longer turret reload. FORCED reloads because he can just get up, move, and sit back down with a full drum ready same with his recon magazine. Or just decrease his damage/drum size/accuracy/fire rate/range (one or a few, not everything). Movement speed in Overwatch is already slow, no one in the game needs to be slower.

If they don't nerf him, I won't be bothered though. Granted I won't care much if they do either. :y

[Falaffel]

On 6/14/2016 at 10:20 PM, XoPachi said:

A lot of people think Bastion is too mobile. I feel like slowing him down would make him garbage. He just needs a nerf to his turret. End lag on his heal. Spin up time on his minigun (a lot of chainguns in shooters do this now for balancing purposes). Longer turret reload. FORCED reloads because he can just get up, move, and sit back down with a full drum ready same with his recon magazine. Or just decrease his damage/drum size/accuracy/fire rate/range (one or a few, not everything). Movement speed in Overwatch is already slow, no one in the game needs to be slower.

If they don't nerf him, I won't be bothered though. Granted I won't care much if they do either. :y

This is pretty much how i feel. I think he could do with an hp nerf (small enough so a Tracer who gets behind him can actually get a kill with majority headshots, but he's not rendered useless. So, like, 150 health and 100 armor) and more spread. He shouldn't be a sniper :v

[Vitaly]

Leave Bastion alone!

Nerf Hanzo instead, this screaming bitch has too much damage, mobility, wallhack and deadly flying helminths.

[Falaffel]

Leave Handsoap alone :c

He is my bae. Rewards skill so heavily. He's easy to counter, though. Hes also easy to fuck up. 

I personally think hes as balanced as he could be. You could make an argument about his scatter arrow, though. 

[Onnes]

Mei and Bastion are both heroes that capitalize on uncoordinated teams. If you look at what experienced teams run, those two are almost entirely absent. Bastion's immobility makes him incredibly easy to burst down. Mei is mostly just annoying. At long range there are far better picks out there, and at close range she's too reliant on being able to catch an enemy alone, since otherwise she'll get burned down as soon as she starts freezing someone.

[Tsuujou]

Oh I'm fucking done with Overwatch. This game here looks legit.

 

 

[Toshabi]

On 6/7/2016 at 4:43 AM, XoPachi said:

The ability to switch freely kind of sucks too, I think. I wish it had a lock in system like a moba. God help you if you're on an indecisive team. You're fucked since no one's getting their ult.

I wanna agree, but then the game would begin to turn a bit more toxic at Hero select. Its smart to avoid this heart ache in sacrifice of a tactical aspect, believe ke.

[Lucyfish]

McCree and Widow were beyond overpowered at launch, I'm glad they got nerfs.

[Tsuujou]

40 minutes ago, Toshabi said:

I wanna agree, but then the game would begin to turn a bit more toxic at Hero select. Its smart to avoid this heart ache in sacrifice of a tactical aspect, believe ke.

I suppose if we look at this from a toxicity route, that can't be debated. 

I'm never worried about shit talk so that aspect didn't occur to me.

 

 

[Toshabi]

3 minutes ago, XoPachi said:

I suppose if we look at this from a toxicity route, that can't be debated. 

I'm never worried about shit talk so that aspect didn't occur to me.

 

 

I've come from the broken family known as League of Legends, where dad hits mom every night, big brother drink and sister has strange men visit her room through the window every day. And they feed me shit daily. 

[Onnes]

I don't think hero switching will be much of an issue in competitive matches. Many of them have moved or want to move to only one of each hero per team, and the loss of ultimate charge is a huge disincentive.

[Lucyfish]

I think the ability to switch your hero and stuff to constantly counter the opponents adds to the meta. I think they should keep hero changing, but add a limit, like maybe a maximum of 3 changes.

[Tsuujou]

If theres no mechanical implementation, I'll be fine with frequent hero it at the very least being against a rule among competitive circles and a taboo. 

I'd also take a limit. Basically anything to stop people from CONSTANTLY switching.

[Hewge]

Look at all these friendly USA and EU peoples that I can't play, yet another, popular new multiplayer game with!

I'll just be down here. Watching you all from afar, as you have fun talking about and playing Overwatch... together...

#SouthernHemisphereProblems

[DrDingo]

23 minutes ago, Hewge said:

Look at all these friendly USA and EU peoples that I can't play, yet another, popular new multiplayer game with!

I'll just be down here. Watching you all from afar, as you have fun talking about and playing Overwatch... together...

#SouthernHemisphereProblems

On the bright side, Steam games aren't region locked

It's one of the things TF2 still does better than Overwatch

[Hewge]

11 hours ago, DrDingo said:

On the bright side, Steam games aren't region locked

It's one of the things TF2 still does better than Overwatch

Well, SEA servers are merged with US servers for all Blizzard games.
If I were to party up with a US friendo, it simply queues me with them into the US servers.

Forget that jazz, though. I ain't playing with 300+ Pings!
The only thing worse than being unable to play with friends, is being able to play with them but have the game be outright unplayable for you. Nothing less fun than playing at 300+, and everyone else is on a solid 15ms.

Also get out of here with your shameless TF2 plugging :v

[Falaffel]

34 minutes ago, Hewge said:

Well, SEA servers are merged with US servers for all Blizzard games.
If I were to party up with a US friendo, it simply queues me with them into the US servers.

Forget that jazz, though. I ain't playing with 300+ Pings!
The only thing worse than being unable to play with friends, is being able to play with them but have the game be outright unplayable for you. Nothing less fun than playing at 300+, and everyone else is on a solid 15ms.

Also get out of here with your shameless TF2 plugging :v

I used to play a lot of games with people from EU. Always had 250-300 ping. I found ways to play the games, even if it was basically fucking around, like knife only or some shit :v

[Hewge]

1 minute ago, Falaffel said:

I used to play a lot of games with people from EU. Always had 250-300 ping. I found ways to play the games, even if it was basically fucking around, like knife only or some shit :v

Plz

SEA servers for any video games at all are way new to this world. SEA servers still won't exist for anything other than *massive* games, probably.

Most of my gaming life was spent playing on huge pings. At least your playing with such latency was a choice. 
Oh, how sweet it must have been... having such low pings to always be there for you. You may have sometimes brought yourself low for others... but your real ping, your true ping? It was always there for you once you returned.

I remember it not-so-fondly. Using an ability, only to have it happen 2 seconds later. Only the ability would never actually cast, as I'd be dead due to a huge lag spike as the games server struggles to process my location from the opposite side of the planet.
Sometimes I was able to take advantage of scrub players and totally wreck them, regardless of the latency. But that is like beating a small child in Mario Kart and feeling good about yourself over it.
No. No, sir. Hewge needs real competition. You can't play at your best with such pings, and as such anyone that isn't trash will dump on you for playing with such a delay.
Nothing bugs me more than when I suck at something I enjoy, and it's even more irritating when it's because of something that's legitimately out of my control.

Days of past were dark for me, my waffle-tastic friend. So very, very dark. I can never go back.
I am grateful that the blessed gamer lords have begun to acknowledge my irrelevant part of the world. I must not squander thine gift, lest they cast us unto darkness once more. #Bless

[Falaffel]

Welp.

[Onnes]

Since we're a week out from the first balance patch, does anyone want to make predictions on what the next round will bring?

The obvious one is D.Va, who Blizzard has already said is going to be buffed as soon as they settle on the right changes.

Likely nerfs:
Lucio
Mercy
Rheinhardt

These three are often seen as mandatory picks, which would strongly suggest a future balance pass. Easy changes to both Mercy and Rheinhardt would be to their ults. Mercy's res can unwipe an entire team and charges absurdly fast, and Rheinhardt for some reason has a large area long duration stun. I'm less sure what to do with Lucio, though.

Likely buffs:
Zenyatta

This one doesn't really need explaining, a low mobility hero shouldn't have the same HP as Tracer.

Likely rebalancing:
Mei
Torbjorn
Bastion

These three heroes dominate low rank play but become increasingly marginalized as player and team skill increases. Probably won't see any major changes for a while though just because of how hard it will be to not make them either useless or a new McCree.

[Falaffel]

Zenyatta could do with more health. Enough to not get fucked so hard by literally anything that sneezes on him. Also, he has a single target heal. why is it 20 hps less than Mercy's heal? The range? I still would think it'd only be 10 hps less. Zenyatta's heals usually seem worthless. 

As for Mei, her slow needs to be way more gradual. Immediately going into a crawl is agonizing. Otherwise, I'm fine with her. Maybe up the CD on ice wall so it's used more tactically rather than spammed. 

[Tsuujou]

Da Rules