charlotte riots

[Another Ampers&]

Just now, Red Lion said:

Around here that's an actual possibility. (A)Heck a white deaf guy was recently slain by the cops because the cop didn't understand sign language http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article96565352.html. But this kind of thing only makes the local news if it even does that.

While I can't speak for other cases, I don't believe this incident was racially motivated, A large number of the police force and the chief of police are black. The officer who shot this man was black. (B)It wasn't a case of a white cop killing an unarmed black man. 

I'd argue that even if it was an unjustified incident of police brutality it doesn't excuse the rioting going on, (C)the attacks on businesses and motorists or the violence (see trying to set people on fire) that got so out of hand they declared a state of emergency. All done in the name of "black lives matter". 

A) The case you're citing alongside the topic at hand are both cases where a disabled person is shot and killed by the police. Ableism is its own very related issue and ties in with the greater thesis statement that the police pick and choose which ppl they want to survive and which they'd rather see dead (as a disabled person who has lived with police officers, I can tell you that their opinion of the disabled is Not Good, but that's sort of a rly long story)

B) I don't care and I don't think many ppl do to be tbh. There are going to be cases where the cop in question is black, that doesn't mean the greater thesis statement that the police have been historically used to enact white supremacy and maintain power for the ruling class (see: socio economics etc etc)

As for the cop in question tho I'm not going to accuse him of internalizing racism, of being a tool for white supremacy willingly, or whatever. It's really not in my place to argue that lmao. If the problem is internalized racism then that's sort of an intracommunity issue

C) I mean friend riots is riots. I read this, went to google and typed in "white people riot because sports team loses" and found a bunch of cool articles like this one and I'm starting to wonder why no one is calling us savages or claiming we're ruining our own communities or making threads about it on Phoenix'd Forums to complain about how we think we're so great and then pull shit like that

[Zeke]

3 minutes ago, Another Ampers& said:

C) I mean friend riots is riots. I read this, went to google and typed in "white people riot because sports team loses" and found a bunch of cool articles like this one and I'm starting to wonder why no one is calling us savages or claiming we're ruining our own communities or making threads about it on Phoenix'd Forums to complain about how we think we're so great and then pull shit like that

 

Because of priorities.

Riots are fucked up, and it's easy to disregard one type of riot when the other is more political and is motivated by a horde of "angry black people" acting on their nanners stereotype.

Implicit bias is a real thing and needs to be addressed, but not by turning what was supposed to be a peaceful protest into a full-fledged siege. 

[Vallium]

Solution: Aim for the black man that way we kill people with autism instead

 

Race problem solved

[Another Ampers&]

2 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Because of priorities.

Riots are fucked up, and it's easy to disregard one type of riot when the other is more political and is motivated by a horde of "angry black people" acting on their nanners stereotype.

Implicit bias is a real thing and needs to be addressed, but not by turning what was supposed to be a peaceful protest into a full-fledged siege. 

I guess I have to make clear that I don't... support hurting innocent people in the name of any cause, good or not

I am going to say tho that shit reaches a breaking point. It's hard to know exactly what to do when you're in a situation and feel trapped

For all the times I've mentioned eating the rich and bringing back the guillotine I really don't know enough about the subject to make a statement on whether or not these riots will actually help to dismantle the harmful systems holding black ppl down

[Tsuujou]

If people need to immediately jump to breaking shit, I feel like targeting Police property would be a wee bit better than random people uninvolved and trying to light up reporters like Christmas trees. Still wrong, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Socketosis]

I'm not a cop defender, but I can see why they would be very tense and paranoid enough to shoot after sudden movements or just out of fear. In the past there have been officers that didn't act quick enough and paid with their lives for it, and it seems wise to be more cautious around a group of people that are statistically known to commit more homicides. Stereotyping can be useful in some circumstances but it has the negative effect of grouping in the people that don't fit the stereotypes.

I think the tension has been escalating for a while. The Dallas ambush a few months back and the countless other cop killings certainly haven't helped matters

[#00Buck]

Poor black guy was sitting reading a book when he got shot by the police for no reason at all.

Oh wait...

Turns out it wasn't a book. It was a gun! 

A gun was found at the scene. No books were found. 

More bullshit yet again. But hey gotta push that narrative. Right?

http://ktla.com/2016/09/21/fatal-shooting-of-keith-lamont-scott-by-north-carolina-officer-prompts-violent-protests/

[Gamedog]

What a good way to show that blacks arent violent looters with no self control 

[Toboe]

@Another Ampers&

1 hour ago, Zeke said:

Because of priorities.

Riots are fucked up, and it's easy to disregard one type of riot when the other is more political and is motivated by a horde of "angry black people" acting on their nanners stereotype.

Implicit bias is a real thing and needs to be addressed, but not by turning what was supposed to be a peaceful protest into a full-fledged siege. 

 

Useful word: Confirmation bias.

Quote

Confirmation bias, [...] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities.

Without referring to right or wrong on the actual act (and violence against innocent bystander certainly is not right, imho) news like that make it very easy to cling to/spread a meme*.

 

Or to demonstrate...

8 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

What a good way to show that blacks arent violent looters with no self control 

 

*

Quote

A meme (/ˈmiːm/ MEEM)[1] is "an idea, behavior, or style that spreads from person to person within a culture".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme

[Red Lion]

And I will say again I'm p sure the looting and rioting actually don't have anything to do with social issues. Charlotte has always been a shithole of a city, it ranks an 11 on the national crime index. An 11 where 100 is the safest. It's rampant with crime and poverty. My bet is that the people doing the looting are just jumping on an opportunity to grab cash and goods while they can get away with it because that would be typical for the city. The difference this time is the shear scale of the destruction, the scale of the destruction and the fact that it's being done in the name of an actual organization. A single drug dealer didn't get blown away, a single apartment complex didn't get shut down over a murder, the fucking highway was set on fire and 16 places of business were attacked with people going straight for the cash registers. Semi-trucks were pulled over and looted, motorists had bricks thrown through their windows, and people were physically attacked. One protester shot and killed another protester. 

 these riots started before all the facts were even out about the case. 

And of course Gator and I are going to post about this on phoenix. WE LIVE HERE. IT'S DIRECTLY AFFECTING US. All of this happened about  a half hour away from Gator and when the Walmart he used to work at got hit I was legitimately worried that he might end up caught up in this mess. 

 

[MalletFace]

I live around 30 minutes away from this, and only a few minutes from towns it has spread to.

People around here are saying this has spread to Gastonia, but I haven't seen it.

"This" is a deceptive way of describing it, though. There are quite a number of different actions being taken by quite a number of different groups, and distinguishing one group from another is quite important to determining intent and meaning.

The group that stopped semis only to burn their cargo are quite likely to have different goals than those that robbed a sporting goods store of luxuries, and it is quite likely that those both are separate from those that marched outside of the Bank of America CC, those that protested outside of a prison, and those that kicked police vehicles at the location of the shooting.

4 hours ago, Sir Gibby said:

the shooting was justified, the riot was not

This is a situation that applies to our Fourth Amendment and has many court cases impacting it; however, there are actually laws here that decide this.

NC law says that

• A law-enforcement officer is justified in using deadly physical force upon another person for a purpose specified in subdivision (1) of this subsection only when it is or appears to be reasonably necessary thereby:
  • To defend himself or a third person from what he reasonably believes to be the use or imminent use of deadly physical force;
  • To effect an arrest or to prevent the escape from custody of a person who he reasonably believes is attempting to escape by means of a deadly weapon, or who by his conduct or any other means indicates that he presents an imminent threat of death or serious physical injury to others unless apprehended without delay; or
  • To prevent the escape of a person from custody imposed upon him as a result of conviction for a felony.

The Charlotte-Mecklenburg Police Directives also require that officers exhaust the ability of their presence, their commands, weak physical force, pepper spray, and strong physical force to arrest an individual. If the individual is armed beyond doubt and threatening officers, officers must exhaust verbal commands and intermediate weapons before they use lethal force.

For the shooting to have been justified in Charlotte-Mecklenburg, Scott must have threatened or attempted to use deadly force, threatened or attempted to escape using deadly force, or have been a convicted felon attempting to escape, and the officers must have exhausted the use of commands and intermediate weapons to detain him.

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, Another Ampers& said:

A) The case you're citing alongside the topic at hand are both cases where a disabled person is shot and killed by the police. Ableism is its own very related issue and ties in with the greater thesis statement that the police pick and choose which ppl they want to survive and which they'd rather see dead (as a disabled person who has lived with police officers, I can tell you that their opinion of the disabled is Not Good, but that's sort of a rly long story)

B) I don't care and I don't think many ppl do to be tbh. There are going to be cases where the cop in question is black, that doesn't mean the greater thesis statement that the police have been historically used to enact white supremacy and maintain power for the ruling class (see: socio economics etc etc)

As for the cop in question tho I'm not going to accuse him of internalizing racism, of being a tool for white supremacy willingly, or whatever. It's really not in my place to argue that lmao. If the problem is internalized racism then that's sort of an intracommunity issue

C) I mean friend riots is riots. I read this, went to google and typed in "white people riot because sports team loses" and found a bunch of cool articles like this one and I'm starting to wonder why no one is calling us savages or claiming we're ruining our own communities or making threads about it on Phoenix'd Forums to complain about how we think we're so great and then pull shit like that

Police shooting a deaf man because they misinterpret their sign language is an example of ignorance, not ableism. For it to be ableism the police officer would have to be aware that the person they are killing is disabled, rather than ignorant of it.

 

[Hux]

1 minute ago, Saxon said:

Police shooting a deaf man because they misinterpret their sign language is an example of ignorance, not ableism. For it to be ableism the police officer would have to be aware that the person they are killing is disabled, rather than ignorant of it.

 

You're such an amazingly patient man, Saxon.

[Socketosis]

11 minutes ago, MalletFace said:

People around here are saying this has spread to Gastonia, but I haven't seen it.

[Another Ampers&]

18 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Police shooting a deaf man because they misinterpret their sign language is an example of ignorance, not ableism. For it to be ableism the police officer would have to be aware that the person they are killing is disabled, rather than ignorant of it.

what societal factors do you think led to a grown as man going through his entire life and presumably the full duration of police training without learning how to recognize sign language

ignorance is not mutually exclusive with malice and in general the opposite is actually the case

[Saxon]

Just now, Another Ampers& said:

what societal factors do you think led to a grown as man going through his entire life and presumably the full duration of police training without learning how to recognize sign language

ignorance is not mutually exclusive with malice and in general the opposite is actually the case

Because learning other languages is a lot of effort.

Do you think that english speakers generally don't speak Hebrew because of an antisemitic social bias, or do you think it's because there are too few situations in which Hebrew is useful for them to bother?

I don't understand this mentality that everything bad that happens has to be symptomatic of an oppression, no matter how scant evidence there is to support this view. You may as well say it was Illuminati.

[Another Ampers&]

6 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Because learning other languages is a lot of effort.

Do you think that english speakers generally don't speak Hebrew because of an antisemitic social bias, or do you think it's because there are too few situations in which Hebrew is useful for them to bother?

I don't understand this mentality that everything bad that happens has to be symptomatic of an oppression, no matter how scant evidence there is to support this view. You may as well say it was Illuminati.

I think there is a very very distinct difference between expecting someone to recognize sign language and expecting someone to fully understand how to speak it

I can't speak a word of hebrew but I can recognize that when it's being spoken I am hearing another language

and then not shoot someone for speaking it

Please keep in mind that I myself am a disabled person who is intimately aware of how police are trained to handle disability it is not good

[MalletFace]

11 minutes ago, Socketosis said:

I have made the mistake of looking up Gaston to get to the edu or gov page for the county.

So much hair.

[Saxon]

Just now, Another Ampers& said:

I think there is a very very distinct difference between expecting someone to recognize sign language and expecting someone to fully understand how to speak it

I can't speak a word of hebrew but I can recognize that when it's being spoken I am hearing another language

Please keep in mind that I myself am a disabled person who is intimately aware of how police are trained to handle disability it is not good

My sister's disabled and I've done work teaching children in the disabled school she used to attend, if you want to make lists of anecdotes.

Clearly a police officer who didn't know somebody was deaf, and shot them because they did not respond as he expected, is an example of ignorance.
One could make a good argument that it is an example of ineptitude too.
However, it can't be an example of disdain for the disabled if the officer didn't even know his victim was disabled.

I think you could make arguments to teach police officers some basic sign language, but I don't see why you're accusing society of holding a general disdain towards deaf people; do you have any evidence to even suggest that is true?

 

 

 

[Another Ampers&]

Just now, Saxon said:

My sister's disabled and I've done work teaching children in the disabled school she used to attend, if you want to make lists of anecdotes.

Clearly a police officer who didn't know somebody was deaf, and shot them because they did not respond as he expected, is an example of ignorance.
One could make a good argument that it is an example of ineptitude too.
However, it can't be an example of disdain for the disabled if the officer didn't even know his victim was disabled.

I think you could make arguments to teach police officers some basic sign language, but I don't see why you're accusing society of holding a general disdain towards deaf people; do you have any evidence to even suggest that is true?

I mean we can argue that purposely not training someone who you know fully well is going to go out and be trigger happy how to properly deal with disabled people is an example of eugenics which is in itself a facet of societal ableism or I could just link you to a let-me-google-that-for-you of "institutional ableism in the west" but like you know what why should I bother given that you have a disabled friend and that means you know more on the subject than... an actual disabled person...

[Saxon]

3 minutes ago, Another Ampers& said:

I mean we can argue that purposely not training someone who you know fully well is going to go out and be trigger happy how to properly deal with disabled people is an example of eugenics which is in itself a facet of societal ableism or I could just link you to a let-me-google-that-for-you of "institutional ableism in the west" but like you know what why should I bother given that you have a disabled friend and that means you know more on the subject than... an actual disabled person...

You think that the government purposefully doesn't teach police officers sign language in the hope they will shoot deaf people and that this will cleanse the gene pool of deafness?

and you think 'googling' counts as evidence?

This is the internet where nobody cares if you're chinese, black, a lesbian, or disabled. They don't know or care what you are; you're just a disembodied voice that types comments here. Obviously 'yeah that's a good argument but it's wrong because I only have one leg' isn't going to convince anybody. :\

[Another Ampers&]

Just now, Saxon said:

You think that the government purposefully doesn't teach police officers sign language in the hope they will shoot deaf people and that this will cleanse the gene pool of deafness?

and you think 'googling' counts as evidence?

I think that not teaching public service workers how to accommodate for disability, whether it be a police officer, librarian, doctor, postal service, whatever. If you are not properly accommodating for disability then you are participating in eugenics

I don't think googling counts as evidence. I am directing you that way because I don't feel like educating you on such a basic topic. I came into this thread to examine ppl's opinions on the OT and suggest my own thoughts. I designated a portion of my time and energy to providing links and articles to different viewpoints to try and open up ppl's minds to different perspectives or at least consider them. I've mentioned multiple times before I'm only devoting the energy required to debate nerds on a single front on any day, I've already broken that rule by answering your questions

here's some links from the first page of searching for "ableism" on google I've scanned them and they look okay I guess

(http://www.stopableism.org/what.asp)
(http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/11/19/what-is-ableism-five-things-about-ableism-you-should-know/)

 

[Saxon]

6 minutes ago, Another Ampers& said:

I think that not teaching public service workers how to accommodate for disability, whether it be a police officer, librarian, doctor, postal service, whatever. If you are not properly accommodating for disability then you are participating in eugenics

I don't think googling counts as evidence. I am directing you that way because I don't feel like educating you on such a basic topic. I came into this thread to examine ppl's opinions on the OT and suggest my own thoughts. I designated a portion of my time and energy to providing links and articles to different viewpoints to try and open up ppl's minds to different perspectives or at least consider them. I've mentioned multiple times before I'm only devoting the energy required to debate nerds on a single front on any day, I've already broken that rule by answering your questions

here's some links from the first page of searching for "ableism" on google I've scanned them and they look okay I guess

(http://www.stopableism.org/what.asp)
(http://disabledfeminists.com/2010/11/19/what-is-ableism-five-things-about-ableism-you-should-know/)

 

So you think a post office that doesn't have a ramp outside is participating in eugenics?
Dear God, if this counts as 'basic' for you, where does the loony-train lead to when you get to 'advanced' ideas?

I think public buildings which lack ramps are dumb, because they're not accessible to everybody. Everywhere that can afford a ramp should have a ramp; it's enough trouble pushing somebody's wheelchair as it is. It's a massive stretch to call their oversight eugenics though, especially since many disabilities are not genetic.

If there really was an Illuminati-like conspiracy to get rid of all disabled people, they would not achieve their aims by failing to provide adequate ramp access or subtitles for the hard of hearing.

 

[Toboe]

16 minutes ago, Another Ampers& said:

If you are not properly accommodating for disability then you are participating in eugenics

Do you know the word overreaction?

[Troj]

Well, when protesters march peacefully, people joke about running them down and grouse about how they're blocking traffic, and when Colin Kaepernick knelt during the National Anthem in protest, people collectively lost their shit and burned replicas of his jersey.

This doesn't justify looting and pillaging, but it does show that a lot of people are being disingenuous when they claim that their only beef is with violent protests.

[Another Ampers&]

1 minute ago, Saxon said:

So you think a post office that doesn't have a ramp outside is participating in eugenics?
Dear God, if this counts as 'basic' for you, where does the loony-train lead to when you get to 'advanced' ideas?

I think public buildings which lack ramps a dumb, because they're not accessible to everybody. Everywhere that can afford a ramp should have a ramp; it's enough trouble pushing somebody's wheelchair as it is. It's a massive stretch to call their oversight eugenics though, especially since many disabilities are not genetic.

If there really was an Illuminati-like conspiracy to get rid of all disabled people, they would not achieve their aims by failing to provide adequate ramp access or subtitles for the hard of hearing.

do you not think that like, in the act of framing my opinions on my own lived experience as not only secondary and subservient to yours, voyeuristic outsider, but also that my perspective, once again on myself and my own lived experiences, is actually completely irrelevant because of my being mentally ill / disabled, that I'm on the "loony train" and therefor I'm too delusional to tell you accurately about shit I'm going through, shit my friends all go through, shit I've built a community around like

do you not think that that mindset which you are taking with me in the face of what's ultimately a peaceful protest that I'm making, calmly and patiently elucidating the barriers that affect me and my own in my life, that maybe you might be parallel right now with the concepts I am talking about, the idea that we as a society do not have a favourable outlook on the disabled

do you think taking concepts I'm using such as eugenics, and claiming you have a more nuanced opinion on them than myself, someone who has to deal with these problems every day of her life like. Do you think taking these concepts and claiming to have a more nuanced opinion on them than myself because of what, you read the dictionary definition? It got mentioned in the WWII unit of your history class? Like why t f do I have to remind you that for instance the eugenics movement is still alive and well (and also neo nazis, with some overlap) that I've been told by ppl that I should be killed b/c I can't contribute to society, that I shouldn't have the same access to a happy and healthy life b/c I'm "a freeloader and a leech" like do you really think a movement that started around one specific ideology in the 1800s might not evolve with time to encompass a larger blanket of ideals such as the general extermination, segregation or general vehement maliciousness aimed at the disabled like

I wanted to get out of this with the last comment because I think in general people should be paying me to educate them but like... holy fuck you are so ignorant? Like you genuinely lack the self awareness to not immediately call me crazy and blame my mental illness for my believing that systematic ableism is a real thing that exists I am absolutely fucking floored

[willow]

56 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Because learning other languages is a lot of effort.

this is true. it also costs money that some people don't want to spend or can't because funding. but I don't think it's such an unrealistic request or requirement that officers at least be equipped with even the basic knowledge of how to recognise sign language.

so maybe then they won't think deaf people are always trying to cast spells on them and therefore won't be perceived as threats :v

[Troj]

Never attribute to malice what can be more readily attributed to stupidity, greed, fear, and/or laziness.

Most people don't actively want to kill, abuse, or hurt the disabled--far from it!

But, people with disabilities aren't on the mainstream societal radar.

Due to ignorance and obliviousness, many people don't react with as much alarm or outrage as they arguably should when disabled people are abused, neglected, dismissed, or even, killed in various ways.

Well, and even when people are fundamentally good and nice, there's a common human tendency to ignore injustices or problems when they're too confusing, too overwhelming, too upsetting, or when they conflict with one's belief in a just world.

[Another Ampers&]

3 minutes ago, Troj said:

Never attribute to malice what can be more readily attributed to stupidity, greed, fear, and/or laziness.

Most people don't actively want to kill, abuse, or hurt the disabled--far from it!

But, people with disabilities aren't on the mainstream societal radar.

Due to ignorance and obliviousness, many people don't react with as much alarm or outrage as they arguably should when disabled people are abused, neglected, dismissed, or even, killed in various ways.

Well, and even when people are fundamentally good and nice, there's a common human tendency to ignore injustices or problems when they're too confusing, too overwhelming, too upsetting, or when they conflict with one's belief in a just world.

please understand that I am asking this sincerely

what is the functional difference between malice, ignorance, stupidity, greed, fear, willful obliviousness

like I'm not going to say "wow this service that abled people are entitled to doesn't have accommodations for the disabled, but it's not because they WANT to be mean, it's because they make more money otherwise" and then I tilt my head and wag my finger @ the concept of capitalism, the studio laughtrack plays

I'm not going to say "gee I would feel angry about my disability making me dangerous in the eyes of ppl who are fully willing to shoot ppl they percieve as a threat but my murder wouldn't be an act of malice, it'd be because recognizing disability as A Thing is too upsetting for the poor police officers"

like I really don't care to differentiate between the "mean" ableists who have hitler posters hanging up in their room and try to push against laws that help disabled ppl / push for our segregation and that "nice" ableists who just want the world to be a happy place and that means making me invisible

[Troj]

Malice would be, "God hates cripples! Gotta kill 'em all! Sieg heil, baby! Purify the gene pool!"

Malice is generally easier to spot, easier to condemn, and easier to shut down.

But, what makes ableism so tricky to address is that nobody wants to see themselves as killing folks with kindness. In my experience, people can become incredibly defensive when you suggest that their well-intentioned behaviors and attitudes are doing harm, unless you apply the right touch.

Also, when you automatically assume someone is malicious or evil, you'll typically come at them with a chainsaw when it's potentially savvier to use the scalpel.

Prematurely accusing someone of being malicious or evil is also a great way to lose all credibility with your audience, and give that person an excuse to just dismiss you as nutty, mean, bitter, or unfair.

Functionally, for the person being poked in the eye, it doesn't really "matter" whether the poking is being done for "nice" reasons or "mean" reasons. But, in terms of how you craft your reaction, it matters a lot.

[Socketosis]

51 minutes ago, Another Ampers& said:

that I've been told by ppl that I should be killed b/c I can't contribute to society, that I shouldn't have the same access to a happy and healthy life b/c I'm "a freeloader and a leech"

I think I've only ever come across that mentality towards the mentally disabled except in some extreme cases. People tend to be a lot more sympathetic towards people with physical disabilities because it's easier for them to understand.

[Saxon]

1 hour ago, willow said:

this is true. it also costs money that some people don't want to spend or can't because funding. but I don't think it's such an unrealistic request or requirement that officers at least be equipped with even the basic knowledge of how to recognise sign language.

so maybe then they won't think deaf people are always trying to cast spells on them and therefore won't be perceived as threats :v

I totally agree; I'm just not crazy enough to label this as eugenics.

do you not think that like, in the act of framing my opinions on my own lived experience as not only secondary and subservient to yours, voyeuristic outsider, but also that my perspective, once again on myself and my own lived experiences, is actually completely irrelevant because of my being mentally ill / disabled, that I'm on the "loony train" and therefor I'm too delusional to tell you accurately about shit I'm going through, shit my friends all go through, shit I've built a community around like

do you not think that that mindset which you are taking with me in the face of what's ultimately a peaceful protest that I'm making, calmly and patiently elucidating the barriers that affect me and my own in my life, that maybe you might be parallel right now with the concepts I am talking about, the idea that we as a society do not have a favourable outlook on the disabled

do you think taking concepts I'm using such as eugenics, and claiming you have a more nuanced opinion on them than myself, someone who has to deal with these problems every day of her life like. Do you think taking these concepts and claiming to have a more nuanced opinion on them than myself because of what, you read the dictionary definition? It got mentioned in the WWII unit of your history class? Like why t f do I have to remind you that for instance the eugenics movement is still alive and well (and also neo nazis, with some overlap) that I've been told by ppl that I should be killed b/c I can't contribute to society, that I shouldn't have the same access to a happy and healthy life b/c I'm "a freeloader and a leech" like do you really think a movement that started around one specific ideology in the 1800s might not evolve with time to encompass a larger blanket of ideals such as the general extermination, segregation or general vehement maliciousness aimed at the disabled like

I wanted to get out of this with the last comment because I think in general people should be paying me to educate them but like... holy fuck you are so ignorant? Like you genuinely lack the self awareness to not immediately call me crazy and blame my mental illness for my believing that systematic ableism is a real thing that exists I am absolutely fucking floored

I think you're on the looney train because you believe in a conspiracy theory that neo nazis are deliberately preventing ramps from being built out of public buildings in order to enact a eugenic program with the aim of exterminating disabled people. 

I don't know or care what your disability is, because that conspiracy theory is just as loopy whether or not you are blind, deaf or wheelchair bound. Your personal disability is absolutely irrelevant to how stupid your theory is.

This conspiracy theory is ridiculous first and foremost because many disabilities are not hereditary. A war veteran may suffer deafness after using a loud weapon for too long, for example. Why would proponents of eugenics think they could better the human gene pool by preventing people from learning sign language so that they could speak to war veterans?

I'm not sure why anybody would tell you you can't contribute; that genuinely is an unfair attitude. Just look at Stephen Hawking. He manages to contribute in spite of being almost entirely paralysed.

 

[Troj]

Well, and even if you feel it has the same basic results as an active eugenics campaign, calling it "eugenics" is just bad PR. Many people will see you as hyperbolic and hysterical, and stop listening.

A number of autistic activists have a bad tendency to become hysterical and hyperbolic about Autism Speaks and ABA, and this gives people an excuse to dismiss them wholesale, even if their points are valid and their data is sound. Best not to repeat their mistakes.

[Saxon]

7 minutes ago, Troj said:

Well, and even if you feel it has the same basic results as an active eugenics campaign, calling it "eugenics" is just bad PR. Many people will see you as hyperbolic and hysterical, and stop listening.

A number of autistic activists have a bad tendency to become hysterical and hyperbolic about Autism Speaks and ABA, and this gives people an excuse to dismiss them wholesale, even if their points are valid and their data is sound. Best not to repeat their mistakes.

Sometimes people use hyperbolic language, but I am concerned that Ampers' comments indicate that they genuinely believe that there is a conspiracy of people who want to exterminate the disabled.

Ampers' comments indicate that they believe that a eugenics movement that started in the 1800s and climaxed in Weimar Germany has persisted underground and that it manifests by insidious government policies to provide insufficient utilities to disabled people.

I completely recognise the existence of ableism, but when Ampers says 'abelism' I think they mean 'the able-bodied supremacist conspiracy to eradicate the disabled', rather than 'prejudicial attitudes towards people with disabilities'.

[FenrirDarkWolf]

tbh this entire thing is a load of bullshit

[Toboe]

2 hours ago, Another Ampers& said:

do you not think that like, in the act of framing my opinions on my own lived experience as not only secondary and subservient to yours, voyeuristic outsider, but also that my perspective, once again on myself and my own lived experiences, is actually completely irrelevant because of my being mentally ill / disabled, that I'm on the "loony train" and therefor I'm too delusional to tell you accurately about shit I'm going through, shit my friends all go through, shit I've built a community around like

do you not think that that mindset which you are taking with me in the face of what's ultimately a peaceful protest that I'm making, calmly and patiently elucidating the barriers that affect me and my own in my life, that maybe you might be parallel right now with the concepts I am talking about, the idea that we as a society do not have a favourable outlook on the disabled

do you think taking concepts I'm using such as eugenics, and claiming you have a more nuanced opinion on them than myself, someone who has to deal with these problems every day of her life like. Do you think taking these concepts and claiming to have a more nuanced opinion on them than myself because of what, you read the dictionary definition? It got mentioned in the WWII unit of your history class? Like why t f do I have to remind you that for instance the eugenics movement is still alive and well (and also neo nazis, with some overlap) that I've been told by ppl that I should be killed b/c I can't contribute to society, that I shouldn't have the same access to a happy and healthy life b/c I'm "a freeloader and a leech" like do you really think a movement that started around one specific ideology in the 1800s might not evolve with time to encompass a larger blanket of ideals such as the general extermination, segregation or general vehement maliciousness aimed at the disabled like

I wanted to get out of this with the last comment because I think in general people should be paying me to educate them but like... holy fuck you are so ignorant? Like you genuinely lack the self awareness to not immediately call me crazy and blame my mental illness for my believing that systematic ableism is a real thing that exists I am absolutely fucking floored

And failing to properly do barrier-free-building is the same as wanting those suffering from said barrier to be killed?

 

[Gamedog]

4 hours ago, Toboe said:

 

Useful word: Confirmation bias.

Without referring to right or wrong on the actual act (and violence against innocent bystander certainly is not right, imho) news like that make it very easy to cling to/spread a meme*.

Or to demonstrate...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mem

[Toboe]

Just now, Gamedog said:

4 hours ago, Toboe said:

 

Useful word: Confirmation bias.

Without referring to right or wrong on the actual act (and violence against innocent bystander certainly is not right, imho) news like that make it very easy to cling to/spread a meme*.

Or to demonstrate...https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mem

 

[Gamedog]

Phoenix mobile won't let me reply to the post

 

anyways

 

inbyour baseless accusation against me, you've shown confirmation bias

 

you played yourself

[Toboe]

2 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

Phoenix mobile won't let me reply to the post

anyways

inbyour baseless accusation against me, you've shown confirmation bias

you played yourself

In what way is quoting your text, which seems to be about the image that these riots give the rioteers, a baseless accusation or showing confirmation bias?

[Gamedog]

4 hours ago, Toboe said:

 

HOLY CRAP PHOENIX FIX MOVILE

 

toboe, you act as if you and I haven't had our disagreements

 

what was the purpose in highlighting my comment in particular,

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

I didn't check on this thread for a day and now someone is claiming that others are participating in eugenics because there's apparently some underground boogeyman trying to get rid of disabled people.

You never cease to amaze me Phoenix.

[Tsuujou]

5 hours ago, XoPachi said:

If people need to immediately jump to breaking shit, I feel like targeting Police property would be a wee bit better than random people uninvolved and trying to light up reporters like Christmas trees. Still wrong, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

See, be more like this guy. He's got the right idea. http://i.4cdn.org/wsg/1474474227497.webm

[Cannakitty]

You are all a bunch of no-goodniks except for Another Ampers& who has been an angel in this thread.

[Toboe]

4 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

HOLY CRAP PHOENIX FIX MOVILE

 

toboe, you act as if you and I haven't had our disagreements

 

what was the purpose in highlighting my comment in particular,

It is a succinct example of a post implying that this event spreads a negative idea (or a negative meme) about black people
 

4 hours ago, Gamedog said:

What a good way to show that blacks arent violent looters with no self control 

Is made up of two parts:

"What a good way to show" -> interpreting the statement as sarcasm leads to you strongly implying that this will spread that idea

"blacks aren't violent looters with no self control"  -> interpreting the statement as sarcasm leads to the idea/meme being "blacks are violent looters with no self control".

The relevancy of a post implying that "this event spreads the meme of blacks being violent looters with no self control" to the discussion/the rest of my post is not qustioned, is it?

5 minutes ago, Cannakitty said:

You are all a bunch of no-goodniks except for Another Ampers& who has been an angel in this thread.

Welcome to Phoenixed Forums, we are full of shit.

[Taikugemu]

[LadyRadarEars]

9 minutes ago, Cannakitty said:

You are all a bunch of no-goodniks except for Another Ampers& who has been an angel in this thread.

I can't tell if this is sarcasm or not.

 

[Cannakitty]

You guys would get along really well with my racist ass family.

[#00Buck]

Check out this incredibly peaceful protest where journalists are beaten in a peaceful and non-threatening way and have to be rescued by racist fascist police officers before they are beaten to death by the peaceful protesters. You can tell how peaceful it is by how they have to drag your limp unconscious body to safety post beating. 

 

[Tsuujou]

34 minutes ago, Cannakitty said:

You are all a bunch of no-goodniks except for Another Ampers& who has been an angel in this thread.

If I'm a Badnik, can I be a Motobug?

EDIT: The answer is yes. I don't need your approval. You're not my mom.