AyGee Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I didn't feel like necro'ing the old topic, so for those of you who want to read the original post - HERE But you'll notice the lack of 'potential' in the title here. We're no longer talking the possibility of. This friend has gone full-blown, tumblr-logic, regressive-left SJW nonsense. For sake of typing this out a little more eloquently, we'll refer to the SJW friend as Ms. A, their roommate as Mr. B, and another friend as Mr. C. So I came over to Mr. B's house tonight after playing at my friendly local gaming store with Mr. C to watch some movies as we tend to do over the weekend, and as I walk in I hear the both of them embroiled in an argument with Ms. A. Apparently, the conversation had gotten around to Ms. A saying that the people who voted for Trump were all uneducated farmers and country bumpkins who didn't deserve the right to vote, or at least didn't deserve to have their votes count as much as 'educated, progressive' city people. And Ms. A began to tell us that if we don't start 'caring,' then we're part of the problem and they won't want to associate with us anymore. And apparently this circled back around to what sparked this whole argument, which was Mr. C trying to talk Ms. A into playing Bloodbowl (a miniature-based boardgame), because he wanted them to hang out with us more an engage in more of the tabletop stuff. Apparently, Ms. A doesn't want to support, play, or entertain the thought of participating in ANY Games Workshop property (the producers of said boardgame), because SOME people who play their games are Trump supporters and rabid misogynists... You know, aside from literally EVERY person Ms. A has ever met that played a Games Workshop game. I mean, I know a grand total of ONE person in the entire local community who could be considered close to this radical alt-right thing Ms. A seems to think subsumes the entirety of the hobby, but hey... It's not like the group of all the reasonable, nice people actually count, because shitposting on reddit and the internet is a much more accurate indicator of the outlook of the culture than virtually all the people you've met in real life. It's not like GW even espouses any particular opinion in American politics. They're a British model and game company - something tells me promoting a political view ain't exactly a priority for them. I also think at some point Ms. A raised the idea of putting up a person or group of people in our government to snuff out various 'unpopular' groups and opinions, and Mr. C was rather quick to point out how this could quickly go wrong. And Ms. A insisted their idea would be a good one, because if said leading power ended up being corrupt, you could simply overthrow it by force. You know, like all those completely stable third world countries do. Anything to keep those racist country bumpkins from voting or exercising their right to petition or assemble. Honestly, I'm fairly certain this is going to come to a head, and I'm going to yell at Ms. A, or Mr. C will go for the throat, or Mr. B/Ms. A will kick us all out of the house and we'll all stop hanging out anymore. It's not gotten any better. In fact, Ms. A's going on about 'white privilege' and 'the patriarchy' has only gotten worse and more frequent. They won't watch movies if they have too many white people or men, they veto any movie with an actor that did a bad thing, they won't consume ANYTHING produced by a company that has one or more people committing some kind of 'wrongthink.' I have a feeling Ms. A has lodged themselves in some kind of tumblr-esque echo chamber, and we're only going to hear more and more about the evil white male conspiracy until they turn on us for not joining their crusade. Seriously, for those of you who haven't read the original thread, Ms. A was a friend that I would have described as the dudeliest dude, to the point that some ill-informed outside observers would have said they were borderline MRA. And then this summer they've pulled this complete 180 and decided they were a woman, changed their name, planned a surgery and hormone treatments, and started spouting off all this SJW rhetoric. I'd be fine with all but the last part, because it's almost to the point that I'm getting the impression Ms. A wants to 'atone' for having been a man, and wants us to start feeling that same guilt and shame by pushing everything through this filter of white/male = bad. I'm reaching the point to where I'm ranting under my breath while alone about all this, and wondering how long it will be before I throw up my hands in Ms. A's company and shout 'fuck this, fuck your feelings, fuck you. I'm out.' And... honestly, I know there's some transitioned/transitioning people on this forum. Is this only a more recent phenomenon? For a trans person to try and 'make up' for being their birth gender by railing so hard against it as a whole, even after people have accepted them as their new gender? Is it common? Is it permanent? Should I just tell off Ms. A and stop hanging out at Mr. B's house to avoid a potential heated argument or even a fist fight? Because I -really- don't think sitting down and discussing the above concerns and the ones in the previous thread is going to do anything but get tensions to flare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallium Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Gender roles are pretty shitty but there comes a point where you just have to stop giving as much of a fuck and overthinking the smallest thing about social politics, sometimes its not a political or ignorant thing, its just a nuance or poor wording in speech or action :T Tumblr trannies seem to be the worst offenders of that kind of obnoxious behavior. Also she reminds me of that angry feminist comic with a baby posted before by Zara but I cant find it and relink it :< 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelwell Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Getting angry at them won't help. Just remember that. Doesn't mean you have to like them though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshleyAshes Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 2 hours ago, AyGee said: And... honestly, I know there's some transitioned/transitioning people on this forum. Is this only a more recent phenomenon? For a trans person to try and 'make up' for being their birth gender by railing so hard against it as a whole, even after people have accepted them as their new gender? Yes, absolutely. It's a known scientific fact that hormones cause a percentage of trans people to evolve or change in their tastes or attitudes over time, sometimes even radically in only a short period of time. This phenomenon has never been observed in non-trans people, who stay exactly the same in personality, preferences, and attitudes from the day they are born until the day they die. Infact, if you encounter any non-trans people who have changed in some way over time, they have actually secretly become trans and just aren't telling you. Your wild college friend who always wanted to party and drink all the time, who now has a respectable office job, wife and three kids and is preoccupied with baby proofing the basement stairs? Yeah, he's hiding a sex change from you. In all seriousness, why are you wasting your time? 'MRA' vs 'SJW' argument aside, if you have friends you can't stand, stop being friends with them and then stop bitching on the internet about them. Life is a lot easier if you walk away from bullshit, no matter what that bullshit is. ...It's not like there's not enough other things to complicate your life, why let this be added to the pile? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AyGee Posted December 4, 2016 Author Share Posted December 4, 2016 33 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said: In all seriousness, why are you wasting your time? 'MRA' vs 'SJW' argument aside, if you have friends you can't stand, stop being friends with them and then stop bitching on the internet about them. Life is a lot easier if you walk away from bullshit, no matter what that bullshit is. ...It's not like there's not enough other things to complicate your life, why let this be added to the pile? I don't know if I mentioned this in the previous thread, but Mr. C and I hang out a lot with Mr. B at his house, where Ms. A lives. If it were as simple as not being around Ms. A alone, I probably would have done that already. I mean, I could just not go to Mr. B's house again, but I feel that would somehow be a less fulfilling option. *shrugs* But over that changing over time thing; this shift was hardly over any time. We're talking going from 'bitches be crazy' to 'down with the patriarchy' in about the course of a month from a person I knew for the better part of a decade. I'm not saying that it's impossible for people to change, even radically, but this still seems quite jarring with how rapidly it happened and the... fervor Ms. A is pushing with the change and the new politics. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyRadarEars Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 I'm really, really sorry that this happened. I've seen it happen before, with people who aren't transitioning (lost one friend when they came out of college a full blown sjw in favor of violent communist overthrow of the government, no lie.) The only core component I've seen in 'cases' of this, is that it is usually a highly rapid change in outlook, personality, and temperament, and generally associated with changing ones core identity to match the group. You know, the kind of stuff that only happens when someone joins a weird religious cult and is about to drink the kool-aid and whatnot. The friends I have that are transitioning, irl, went through years of decision-making and therapy and counseling, not this 'oh well I'm X now' with no warning or hints and a sudden, radical change into a tumblrina. RIP your friend, and I give it maybe three weeks before they either forcibly convert their roommate or get kicked out after a massive argument and then complain about it online and get pity-money from some group or another and they then swear an undying vendetta to ruin all of your lives for the crime of being yourselves. This really sucks and in my experiences with it I have no idea how to help, sometimes they mellow out and return to sanity, other times they follow cult-behavior and cut ties with all of their old friends and family on purpose. Sometimes, sometimes things work out, but that hasn't been my experience ._. i hope you get a happy ending but i wouldnt expect one by this point im sorry 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troj Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 People are very tender right now. In the days following the election, my FB feed was full of people ordering their Trump-supporting, and in some cases, third-party-voting friends to unfriend them. Even I've been noticeably testier, sharper, and angrier than usual. Being emotionally hopped up in the immediate wake of the election doesn't necessarily mean someone is an SJW. Lots of young people in particular are also grappling with the very real dilemma of when you can "agree to disagree" with someone, and when you need to draw a line in the sand with someone whose beliefs or actions show that they don't fundamentally respect or care about you. Personally, I think A is going overboard by swearing off everybody based on a few bad eggs. But, you can also make a plausible argument that people who tolerate, hang out with, or make excuses for jerks or bigots maybe aren't trustworthy, respectable, or reliably in your corner themselves, and that may be A's stance here. It really sounds like A is trying to find herself, and doesn't know how to hit a happy medium. You may be right that she may be trying to atone for who and what she was by swinging to the opposite extreme. Offhand, I might suggest: 1) Making sure the Code of Conduct at the game shop and the social standards within your gaming group are clear and fair. 2) Consistently enforcing those rules and standards fairly and equitably, and reminding or warning people when they violate them. This includes A, B, C, and everybody else. If A sees your group shut down obnoxious behavior or nasty comments, she may chill out because she feels safe. If the rules are enforced fairly and equitably, everyone may take it less personally when they get called in, called out, or corrected. 3) Empathizing with A's feelings, without condoning her negative behavior. If she feels heard and respected, she may become less strident. If she feels heard and respected by a few cis-gendered heterosexual white males, she may be less inclined to see the lot of them as villains. At the very least, if people are generally respectful and appropriate to her, she'll be less able to play the victim if she's inclined towards that. 4) Attempting to appeal to A's deeper principles, logic, and better nature. If A proposes something unfair, irrational, stupid, or totalitarian, you can point out how it conflicts with her goals, values, or ethics, or invoke the Golden Rule or Rawlsian ethics to show she wouldn't like that stuff being done to her or someone she values. If she breaks one of the above norms, you should calmly remind her of them, and the agreed-upon consequences for violating them. 5) Reinforcing A for being pleasant, non-defensive, cooperative, and appropriate. When she's pleasant and polite to you, be pleasant and polite back. If she voices a grievance or opinion without getting personal, mean, or aggressive, respectfully listen to and acknowledge her point of view. When A says or does something valid or true, or something that contains a grain of truth or value, acknowledge that. 5) It's actually a misconception that Trump supporters were "all" country bumpkins, and I think having the real stats on who voted how and why is generally helpful. But, if you share that kind of information, you need to make sure that it doesn't come across as an attack. I don't know much about A, so there's not much more I can say. I don't know how defensive she is deep down, nor do I know how reasonable or unreasonable she is. I don't know if she's determined to play the victim or not. I don't know if she actually wants to have an axe to grind against cis-gendered hetero guys, or if she's just going through a phase because she's hurting. It really sounds like she could use someone to talk and rant to. "You need therapy" usually sounds like an insult, even when it's anything but. She sounds like she could benefit from therapy with a trans-positive therapist. In particular, it sounds like she may have some grief and guilt about her past, and some fear and uncertainty about her future, and the gaming nerds probably aren't the best people to talk to about that. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlynnCoyote Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Just act really condescending, pretend their opinions don't matter but you're still humouring them, pat them on the shoulder every time they use a big word and so on. Or, don't be subtle in the slightest and just state flat out that nobody has any obligation to kowtow to tumblrina SJW bullshit, and if they need any help with real problems, you'll be in the next room. It's not an argument worth putting yourself into with someone you live with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Your "friend" sounds like the kind of person that would benefit from a brick to the back off the head. Just sayin' 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cingal Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Honestly, I'd just completely divorce myself of this person, as they sound completely insufferable to be around. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxon Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 If you don't enjoy this person's company and they don't want to associate with you, then I suppose that is the amicable end to your friendship. :\ 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaraphayx Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Sounds to me like there's a nerd in need of being told to shut up. :^) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZorroValdez Posted December 4, 2016 Share Posted December 4, 2016 Sounds like she's following the instruction manual to the tee. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gator Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 just tell your other friends you really don't want to be around A any more because of the way she's been acting. either you can work out days/times to hang out at B's house when she's not around, or find a new hangout. or have a huge blowup and discover who your "real friends" are, dramatically go your separate ways, and shack up with C because B has taken A's side and then you and C get married and i'll stop but you get the idea 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikazuki Marazhu Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 "Friend" that's cute ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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