Feeding your pet vegan food is bullshit

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, Feelwell the Rabbit said:

Well when you say it like that it just sounds weird!

I made it sound quasi-sexual.

/snip

So I'm not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian. A woman once genuinely got upset with me because she was worried that, if people like me at all the plants, that the oxygen would run out.

[Red Lion]

15 hours ago, Saxon said:

I sort of doubt this is based on life experience, because some posters say that they've never met a vegan; I think people were just so confident that they didn't bother checking.

I can vouch that gator, at least, has done as much research as I have.

he's also had a very heated argument with a woman who fed her cat rice and potatoes instead of any kind of commercial cat food. I was there, it wasn't pretty.

[Vallium]

13 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

Nope, I'm saying that overall we're doing more damage than good to the global ecosystem.

 

Your faith in countries always having enough resources despite requiring continuous growth on a finite world is almost admirable, hence your previous statement of "pets regardless of necessary or recreational function arent going to go away".

 

Our species doesn't seem to have any evolutionary predisposition to maintaining the complex environment historically or in the present tense. As for the decline of pet ownership I don't recall mentioning pet ownership was going up or down.

 

Perhaps we're arguing over semantics for this one. I think we could agree that in some ways animals are treated like children, and in other ways they're treated worse than prisoners.

Oh my gosh alright I'll just agree on the last point and be done with it, because depending on the people who care for them animals are treated like shit...even if though modern prisoners are treated okay that hasnt always been the case

I mean really all Im saying to begin with is if we can do anything to help pets or wildlife, like curbing overpopulation, its a good thing, you dont have to bring up the humans are evil we do jack shit to help the ecosystem. It comes off like well whats the point in the few people trying to properly care for other species?

 

 

tl;dr on the whole "pet ownership is weird and/or bad", I've been going at this objectively. In the end, I've have/had pets. I have no necessary use of them and its just as a recreational or hobby. I intentionally keep animals in my home because it makes me happy, specifically because I can keep a part of nature close by in between four walls in an age where I dont live in nature, sadly, and because theyre an adopted part of a family where we can do normal family things like cuddle/play/walk etc. I treat my animals well, Im happy, theyre happy, that's about it. Plus, aesthetically they resemble something adorable and its nice to care for them, which is why they can be attributed almost like children in any case, or friends in others.

If pet ownership is messed up thats a result of it becoming a marketed factor and a lot of people are trying to curb that via shelters, law, and spreading good knowledge.

[Vallium]

6 hours ago, Saxon said:

So I'm not a vegan, but I am a vegetarian. A woman once genuinely got upset with me because she was worried that, if people like me at all the plants, that the oxygen would run out.

Hahahaha, Sometimes I think people like that are myths, but then I hear stories that confuse me, good to know some ignorance never changes

[WileyWarWeasel]

26 minutes ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

Oh my gosh alright I'll just agree on the last point and be done with it, because depending on the people who care for them animals are treated like shit...even if though modern prisoners are treated okay that hasnt always been the case

Perhaps we shouldn't have made such animals dependent on us in the first place. Also my prisoner comment was referring to the fact that most societies don't castrate prisoners as a matter of course (except in extreme circumstances such as certain sexual crimes being committed in some places). Most prisoners are set free at some point as well.

 

27 minutes ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

I mean really all Im saying to begin with is if we can do anything to help pets or wildlife, like curbing overpopulation, its a good thing, you dont have to bring up the humans are evil we do jack shit to help the ecosystem. It comes off like well whats the point in the few people trying to properly care for other species?

Human overpopulation will be solved one way or another, if it's any consolation. I was trying to point out what our species has done for the big picture.

Humans are increasing the extinction rate between one hundred to a few hundred times higher than normal depending on which estimates you look at; caring for the odd species here or there won't do much to improve the overall effects that humans have had on other life & the environment but it's better than nothing I'll agree.

 

39 minutes ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

tl;dr on the whole "pet ownership is weird and/or bad", I've been going at this objectively. In the end, I've have/had pets. I have no necessary use of them and its just as a recreational or hobby. I intentionally keep animals in my home because it makes me happy, specifically because I can keep a part of nature close by in between four walls in an age where I dont live in nature, sadly, and because theyre an adopted part of a family where we can do normal family things like cuddle/play/walk etc. I treat my animals well, Im happy, theyre happy, that's about it. Plus, aesthetically they resemble something adorable and its nice to care for them, which is why they can be attributed almost like children in any case, or friends in others.

If pet ownership is messed up thats a result of it becoming a marketed factor and a lot of people are trying to curb that via shelters, law, and spreading good knowledge.

I suppose some of my biggest gripes with pet ownership is indeed how commercial it is, and also how unnatural parts of it are:

-In nature animals do not get transported thousands of kilometers in ships/planes/trucks/etc to foreign ecosystems (yes there is natural migration but it is way slower)

-In nature animals cannot rely on food provided by industrial agriculture

-In nature animals are not castrated by other animals "for their own good" after they're transported thousands of kilometers to environments where they're not supposed to be

[Proper noun]

[Socketosis]

6 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

Human overpopulation will be solved one way or another, if it's any consolation. I was trying to point out what our species has done for the big picture.

Yeah, all of the gay people and people like me who never want to procreate are doing our part. 👍

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, Proper noun said:

Is this made up? If people were upset about how fictional animals are treated, surely they'd be upset about like, pokémon or something.

[Socketosis]

5 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Is this made up? If people were upset about how fictional animals are treated, surely they'd be upset about like, pokémon or something.

I think they're talking about Komodo Dragons... I hope.

EDIT: Nevermind, just saw the title. Goddamnit.

[Proper noun]

Just now, Saxon said:

Is this made up? If people were upset about how fictional animals are treated, surely they'd be upset about like, pokémon or something.

Drama Rising doesn't play around.

Just now, Socketosis said:

I think they're talking about Komodo Dragons... I hope.

Nah, they're talking about a pet sim.

[Vallium]

lmao even I have to agree people getting agree over how a fictional animal is fed is more retarded than people who made up the fact that the already fictional animal itself is vegan.

People are dumb

[Vallium]

2 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

 

Argh, Dude I cant keep trying to explain myself to you youre taking everything too literally and missing my point, I'll concede to the whole "people are mean to animals" thing

Here's a fox

[WileyWarWeasel]

7 hours ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

Argh, Dude I cant keep trying to explain myself to you youre taking everything too literally and missing my point, I'll concede to the whole "people are mean to animals" thing

Here's a fox

Wait what was your point then?

[Vallium]

20 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

Wait what was your point then?

You seemed to read what I said as if I had compared pet ownership to nature, that wasnt the case, wild animals arent suited for life with humans and domesticated animals are just decendants of those creatures better suited for life with humans. I cant own a wolf because that would indeed be cruel since I dont have the environment or means to care for it, but a dog is a descendant of nature I can have and care for properly. 

Animals like dogs and cats are adaptive species that are easily domesticated and live in most environments, most dogs originally come from wild dogs that mutually adapted with early human culture anyways, The rest of your post seems geared toward the exotic pet trade, like birds and reptiles, which when improperly cared for can lead to damage in the environment or the animals themselves in transit.

 

I cant seem to understand the immoral implication of domestic animals and pets (aside from the commercial factor) , since historically in human culture its been beneficial for the animal and human when done properly. I wouldnt actively participate in something that would harm an animal, which is why culturally I vouch for animal activism and shelter adoption.

Its not 100% natural as it relates to wildlife, but pet ownership has always been emotionally positive for pet owners and positive for animals that get their needs met . I would be dissapointed if I lived in a modern human city with no animals nearby because its one of the biggest factors of life to be connected or in contact with an animal, and most of nature in cities and suburbs are farther away keeping more elusive animals out, and not being able to bond with younger animals because their home isnt yours.Im not talking the big picture here where supposedly taking control or domestication of a species is taken to be wrong but on a small-scale most animals benefit from these relationships.

 

 

 

[Khaki]

On 12/22/2016 at 2:15 PM, Nova said:

So i have read that there are people who feed their pets like only vegans but that's dumb. I mean pets like cats and dogs.

First off all its not healthy for the animals. Animals eat fruits or plants sometimes but not the whole time. They could end up blind or have bone problems.

Also if these people want to feed their animals vegans then these idiots should have bought guinea pigs or rabbits instead.

You can't just give a cat or dog something to eat that they aren't supposed to.

 

I agree, although vegans are lacking in the proteins and nutrients needed for your pet's diet, this can be supplimented with additional protein and fats if you were to add other meats to their diet such as Jehovah Witnesses for example.

Which is convenient for those on a tighter budget and still wish to give their pet tabby a healthy diet.

 

[WileyWarWeasel]

5 hours ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

You seemed to read what I said as if I had compared pet ownership to nature, that wasnt the case, wild animals arent suited for life with humans and domesticated animals are just decendants of those creatures better suited for life with humans. I cant own a wolf because that would indeed be cruel since I dont have the environment or means to care for it, but a dog is a descendant of nature I can have and care for properly. 

Animals like dogs and cats are adaptive species that are easily domesticated and live in most environments, most dogs originally come from wild dogs that mutually adapted with early human culture anyways, The rest of your post seems geared toward the exotic pet trade, like birds and reptiles, which when improperly cared for can lead to damage in the environment or the animals themselves in transit.

 

I cant seem to understand the immoral implication of domestic animals and pets (aside from the commercial factor) , since historically in human culture its been beneficial for the animal and human when done properly. I wouldnt actively participate in something that would harm an animal, which is why culturally I vouch for animal activism and shelter adoption.

Its not 100% natural as it relates to wildlife, but pet ownership has always been emotionally positive for pet owners and positive for animals that get their needs met . I would be dissapointed if I lived in a modern human city with no animals nearby because its one of the biggest factors of life to be connected or in contact with an animal, and most of nature in cities and suburbs are farther away keeping more elusive animals out, and not being able to bond with younger animals because their home isnt yours.Im not talking the big picture here where supposedly taking control or domestication of a species is taken to be wrong but on a small-scale most animals benefit from these relationships.

 

 

 

Alright, I'll agree that under certain circumstances animals and people living together can be mutually beneficial.

[Gator]

On 12/23/2016 at 9:40 PM, Saxon said:

I sort of doubt this is based on life experience, because some posters say that they've never met a vegan; I think people were just so confident that they didn't bother checking.

you heard someone say they've never met a vegan and thus take that to mean that no one in the thread has had these experiences? 

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, Gator said:

you heard someone say they've never met a vegan and thus take that to mean that no one in the thread has had these experiences? 

No;  I doubt your explanation applies to everyone, because some users' anecdotes contradict it.

In any case, whether people's views were determined by personal experiences or by ignorance or if the situation was a mixture, nobody checked to see if those views were right or not. I should have checked much earlier.

[Gator]

26 minutes ago, Saxon said:

No;  I doubt your explanation applies to everyone, because some users' anecdotes contradict it.

In any case, whether people's views were determined by personal experiences or by ignorance or if the situation was a mixture, nobody checked to see if those views were right or not. I should have checked much earlier.

you're still assuming nobody did any research based on the fact that people didn't agree with vegan feeding.  just because commercial vegan food exists doesn't mean people aren't still going to be against vegan feeding as a whole, commercial food or otherwise.  and not all vegan feeders use commercial food or use it "properly" anyway, which some of us know from experience with vegan feeders.

 

[Vallium]

9 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

Alright, I'll agree that under certain circumstances animals and people living together can be mutually beneficial.

I think I do understand now though that a lot of the origins of domestication started out imperfect and cruel, however. Initially the stories about mutual benefit between wild dogs and human tribes or adopting orphan young animals are how we usually hear of those origins or the fact that Egytian felids are revered by its people, but thinking more deeply Im sure a lot of the process was rather cruel based on thr larger cultures means for domination and growth. People who kill adult animals and steal the young or capture a wild animal and force into submission and forced breedings, Im sure for a lot of cultures to progress a lot of harm was done to make that happen.

I think its most a matter of me as a young child having had a rosy outlook on thinks like the animal-human relationship and the roles of animals in science, both contribute greatly to human culture and growth but have darker sides that I'd been initially oblivious to. 

I think its fair to say in a lot of ways youve been right, sadly : / But nevertheless there have always been a few that treat animals less like a tool or profit and more like a living being, hopefully people like that bring more balance and positive factors in the lives of different animals in captivity or wild

[Saxon]

1 hour ago, Gator said:

you're still assuming nobody did any research based on the fact that people didn't agree with vegan feeding.  just because commercial vegan food exists doesn't mean people aren't still going to be against vegan feeding as a whole, commercial food or otherwise.  and not all vegan feeders use commercial food or use it "properly" anyway, which some of us know from experience with vegan feeders.

 

I am beyond the point of caring about this nitpick, Gator. We all now know there are fortified feeds available for people who *just have to* have a vegan cat or dog, and we all agree that owners must be responsible about their pet's diet.

[WileyWarWeasel]

38 minutes ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

I think its fair to say in a lot of ways youve been right, sadly : / But nevertheless there have always been a few that treat animals less like a tool or profit and more like a living being, hopefully people like that bring more balance and positive factors in the lives of different animals in captivity or wild

Though few and far between, there are some people like that.

 

[Zeke]

On 12/24/2016 at 3:06 PM, Saxon said:

If people were upset about how fictional animals are treated, surely they'd be upset about like, pokémon or something.

Like making your poor pokemon have cock fights with each other, and feeding your Drifloon berries instead of its actual diet consisting of children's souls.

Get it right. Drifloon eats children's souls. It isn't a fucking berry eater.

 

[Caledonian]

I feed my pets only vegan food. That's beneficial for their health.

[Vallium]

22 hours ago, Caledonian said:

I feed my pets only vegan food. That's beneficial for their health.

...you have goats, Cal

[Caledonian]

2 hours ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

...you have goats, Cal

Oh. Yes. of course.

 

[Zeke]

21 minutes ago, Caledonian said:

Oh. Yes. of course.

 

Why would you feed your goats anything BUT veggies?
Goats cannot thrive off paper. And cans. :V

[ZorroValdez]

Yes.

[Saxon]

On 26/12/2016 at 9:39 PM, Zeke said:

Like making your poor pokemon have cock fights with each other, and feeding your Drifloon berries instead of its actual diet consisting of children's souls.

Get it right. Drifloon eats children's souls. It isn't a fucking berry eater.

 

In my German oral exam when I was 15 they asked me what I usually ate for breakfast and I said that I drank the souls of daemonic children.

I still cringe thinking about my edgy teenage self.

[Caledonian]

13 hours ago, Zeke said:

Why would you feed your goats anything BUT veggies?
Goats cannot thrive off paper. And cans. :V

mine like plastic, apparently. when i come to feed them they chew on the bowl rather than eating the bix.

 

 

[Zeke]

10 hours ago, Saxon said:

In my German oral exam when I was 15 they asked me what I usually ate for breakfast and I said that I drank the souls of daemonic children.

I still cringe thinking about my edgy teenage self.

Did the teacher call you Mr. Krampus afterwards?

[Saxon]

21 minutes ago, Zeke said:

Did the teacher call you Mr. Krampus afterwards?

My submission was prefaced with a note for the examiners saying this candidate is 'very fanciful'.

[Misomie]

On the whole spay/neutering thing, I agree that people are obsessed with it. The procedure is barely better for the pet, especially in dogs. I own two intact pups (one turning four in May and the other 2 in July), my male has never sired a litter and my female has never been pregnant. It's not that hard at all. I have NO plans to alter the male (except maybe a vas to get him counted as "fixed" on his registration) and for the female I only intend to have an OSS done (removal of uterus and cervix but ovaries left intact) just cause pyometra sounds terrifying. I will be bringing her in for ultrasounds once she hits five to watch out for mamory cancer. 

It is because of this fixing frenzy that I will refuse to adopt from shelters and rescues unless they are sterilized through vas/oss. Those hormones are so incredibly important to dogs. Taking them away jumps up joint and bone problems, all cancers (except mamory, testicular, ovarian, ect), allows for spay incontinence, potential for coat, can alter behavior negatively, can turn a slighlty timid/aggressive dog to a hyper timid/aggressive, and lowers metabolism. Pediatric spays/neuters are even worse on the dog. Owners should wait until the dog is two before making any decision if they truly want what is best for the dog. 

Cats haven't had as much research on them but are a lot more wild than dogs and pretty much need to be altered. It is because of this that I'd gladly adopt cats than seek out a breeder. I don't plan on getting any cats for several years though because I don't think they should be allowed to roam (they wreck havoc on the native wildlife) but I do want a large (I do mean large) outdoor enclosure for them so they don't have to be inside their whole life. I do have one cat that I inherited from my dad (which he inherited frkm his dad) but she's my last for awhile (plus the feral cat I have been taking care of for several years moved in with the neighbors). 

[Vae]

The entire thing about spaying and neutering pets is that it does more harm, in the long run, to have surprise instances of litters you can't take care of, and no place to get rid of them except already overcrowded shelters.

Animals are too stupid not to fuck, left alone, and not everyone has the ability to watch their pets 24/7 when they have jobs, children, and other responsibilities.

If it works for you, that's great. My cat's not fixed either, because she's strictly indoor and I have no other cats.
But not everyone has that luxury.

[Misomie]

I see it from that stand point, but there are other ways to sterilize your pet than straight up remove their hormones. Plus, there are plenty of adoptable pets that come pre spayed/neutered for those that don't want/can't keep intact animals. I just have a huge disdain for what it does to animals to the point that it will prevent me from taking in anymore that aren't intact (an exception being maybe an older animal that had the procedure later in life). I just don't see it as the ultimate cure-all that people praise it as. Luckily my vets don't harass me about my pets being intact cause they know I take good care of them. Spay/neuter is so pushed around here that I'm just kinda sick of how its cons aren't addressed and instead people are led to do it when the answer was more training, more walks, ect. Permanent solution to a fixable problem (mostttt of the time). 

 

[Vallium]

50 minutes ago, Misomie said:

On the whole spay/neutering thing, I agree that people are obsessed with it. The procedure is barely better for the pet, especially in dogs. I own two intact pups (one turning four in May and the other 2 in July), my male has never sired a litter and my female has never been pregnant. It's not that hard at all. I have NO plans to alter the male (except maybe a vas to get him counted as "fixed" on his registration) and for the female I only intend to have an OSS done (removal of uterus and cervix but ovaries left intact) just cause pyometra sounds terrifying. I will be bringing her in for ultrasounds once she hits five to watch out for mamory cancer. 

 

...wait Im confused, if you have a male and a female and neither are fixed, is it because Laika is not of breeding age or is it because you supervise or separate tenough so nothing happens when she is in heat?

Probably a weird or stupid question but Im not sure how this works given you said neither are fixed yet?

 

Both my dogs (male and female) arent fixed too but the size difference made it impossible to copulate

[Misomie]

37 minutes ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

...wait Im confused, if you have a male and a female and neither are fixed, is it because Laika is not of breeding age or is it because you supervise or separate tenough so nothing happens when she is in heat?

Probably a weird or stupid question but Im not sure how this works given you said neither are fixed yet?

 

Both my dogs (male and female) arent fixed too but the size difference made it impossible to copulate

She's gone through a few heats now and each one is getting easier. She has no desire in him and he's mellow so that makes it extra easy. Though dogs are in heat about twice a year for a month, it is only two weeks (one week each time) that you have to watch out for. He lets me know a week or two before any symptoms show. 

During the first week or so she starts bleeding and marking on her walks. She is not open to males at this point and he doesn't try anything because of that. Then the next step is the discharge changes color and she's now fertile. I just keep them separated. When I lived alone, she was locked up and he roamed the house during the day (when I was at work) and him locked up at night with her roaming. This time, my family moved in and their dog had a synced heat with mine. Those two just hung out together in the living room during the day with my boy hanging out in my bedroom, then at night he was locked up while she was in the bedroom. I still would take them on walks together and let them play together under 100% supervision (this didn't happen after the first time cause all Fen did was annoy her). 

Intact show/sports/guide dogs all learn to behave themselves around in heat females. Mine is getting there at least since he seems to be learning that nothing will happen.

There also are some things you can try that lessens the affect. Giving the female chlorophyll before her heat lessens its smell to the male and Vick's Vapor Rub (I think this is the right brand) applied to the male's nose and base of the female's tail is also said to help. The OSS I have planned will also make her less attractive during heats due to discharge lessening/stopping. I haven't tried any yet though as I wanted to double check with my vets first. 

For the other 95% of the year, it is business as usual. Laika has mild false pregnancies (all intact females have them but some are not noticeable to people while others lactate to the point of some owners fostering young puppies during the phase) and has no problems so far. Fen sounds like a bird during the peak of it but still eats food and acts like a dog (the second time a lot less "bird" calls). I did the whole wait through a few cycles to see if everything was fine and so far so good. It's a bit more work than if she was spayed but it is for such a short time and pretty predictable so I can plan out trips around her (like what I'm used to doing for my own junk myself so I see no difference). 

[Revates]

Would it be appropriate to feed my vegan pet food?

[Saxon]

Pets are a luxury, so if people need to have them surgically altered in order to keep them, maybe they should consider not owning pets or keeping pets that can easily be isolated by sex, such as guineapigs.

Regarding this subject in general though, my family once owned guineapigs- one boar and 4 sows. My mother made the poorly informed decision to let the boar live with the sows, instead of separate hutches.

This is when you realise that commerical petshops are offering very poor quality livestock. They achieve the colourful crested and tricolour guineapigs by systematically inbreeding them, so even though the boar and sows came from different pet shops, the litters they had were characterised by extremely high infant mortality and those minipigs which did go on to survive often later died from exotic recessive genetic diseases.

One guineapig developed a genetic condition in which the teeth grew uncontrolably backwards into the throat. It was horrifying, and completely pointless- the only reason they inbreed the guineapigs like that is because people don't buy the natural brown coloured 'agouti' pigs.

...so if anybody does want to buy guineapigs, buy agouti guineapigs, which is their natural appearance:

4 hours ago, Revates said:

Would it be appropriate to feed my vegan pet food?

As long as it's rabbit food.

[Vallium]

7 hours ago, Misomie said:

She's gone through a few heats now and each one is getting easier. She has no desire in him and he's mellow so that makes it extra easy. Though dogs are in heat about twice a year for a month, it is only two weeks (one week each time) that you have to watch out for. He lets me know a week or two before any symptoms show. 

During the first week or so she starts bleeding and marking on her walks. She is not open to males at this point and he doesn't try anything because of that. Then the next step is the discharge changes color and she's now fertile. I just keep them separated. When I lived alone, she was locked up and he roamed the house during the day (when I was at work) and him locked up at night with her roaming. This time, my family moved in and their dog had a synced heat with mine. Those two just hung out together in the living room during the day with my boy hanging out in my bedroom, then at night he was locked up while she was in the bedroom. I still would take them on walks together and let them play together under 100% supervision (this didn't happen after the first time cause all Fen did was annoy her). 

Intact show/sports/guide dogs all learn to behave themselves around in heat females. Mine is getting there at least since he seems to be learning that nothing will happen.

There also are some things you can try that lessens the affect. Giving the female chlorophyll before her heat lessens its smell to the male and Vick's Vapor Rub (I think this is the right brand) applied to the male's nose and base of the female's tail is also said to help. The OSS I have planned will also make her less attractive during heats due to discharge lessening/stopping. I haven't tried any yet though as I wanted to double check with my vets first. 

For the other 95% of the year, it is business as usual. Laika has mild false pregnancies (all intact females have them but some are not noticeable to people while others lactate to the point of some owners fostering young puppies during the phase) and has no problems so far. Fen sounds like a bird during the peak of it but still eats food and acts like a dog (the second time a lot less "bird" calls). I did the whole wait through a few cycles to see if everything was fine and so far so good. It's a bit more work than if she was spayed but it is for such a short time and pretty predictable so I can plan out trips around her (like what I'm used to doing for my own junk myself so I see no difference). 

That's actually pretty interesting. Thank you.

I have an aunt who made the stupider and poorer decision of having a male and female dog, going to work and leaving them in the house for the day to, of course, breed because what else do unsupervised dogs do? It was incredibly irresponsible. She didnt mind having the puppies but thats just more puppies

[Misomie]

@Saxon- That natural beown color is actually super pretty. I've never really liked how those guys looked (always seemed off) but I'm really digging it. The fish trade is another good example. Though I do buy fish from it I am very particular. Some fish refuse to breed in captivity and are injected with hormones so they reproduce (a good example being the Chinese Algae Eater). Then if course there are the defect fish bred to look silly. Balloon Mollies were from normal mollies that had a genetic defect that affected their swim bladder. Every balloon variety you see is suffering from that deformity. Fancy goldfish are also hecka screwed up with their bloated bodies and sometimes popped out eyes. Betta fish from pet stores are also severly inbred and often suffer from swim bladder infections and other diseases as a result. You also want to be careful with fish such as Neon Tetras. They were so popular that they were inbred like crazy to the point of getting sick/dying over the simplest of issues.

The vast majority of pet fish have an average lifespan of 3-5 years (live bearers have a shorter one of 2-3 and some others live 15+ but the basic ones are 3-5). I'm just so disgusted over how people just get fish and don't take care of them (thus starting the belief that they barely live a year). I have a school of five year olds right now but most of my stock is 3-4 years old. I just added in a school of yearlings to get them used to the tank and to replace my five year olds when they finally pass away though but they are very healthy and are doing just fine (the oldest fish I had hit 7 before passing so I know it's bull when people claim they only live a few months). If you are going to get an animal you better take care of it. If not, people shouldn't get one at all, period. It is incredibly cruel to get pets and then just watch them suffer. 

@WolfNightV4X1-  It sure is. I've joined a few groups for dog owners that keep intact animals and have learned a lot. 

Your aunt is lucky the dogs didn't hurt themselves. Dogs can be very stupid and can hurt themselves easily while mating. It's why many owners of intact females won't let even sterilized males near them while their dog is in heat. Hello ER vet bill. 

 

[Käpt'n]

On 22.12.2016 at 2:41 PM, Saxon said:

To be honest, I find the entire notion of owning pets weird anyway.

Right. In my opinion you don't own them, they are part of the family. Ownership implies that you put yourself above the animal and that shouldn't be the case.
For example, I saw an article about a woman from LA who was dragging her cat around on a leash...
http://ktla.com/2017/01/24/l-a-authorities-searching-for-suspect-after-woman-caught-on-camera-dragging-cat/
She either doesn't give a shit or that cat is just an accessoire. Either way, she should not own a cat!

I don't eat meat but not feeding a cat meat or forcing your diet on any animal is simply retarded.
For example, cats can't even eat anything other than meat. That's literally all they eat! They ingest stuff like grass just to throw up hair more easily...
I heard of someone who was keeping their kitten on a vegan diet.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/kitten-vegan-diet-nearly-dies_n_3644213.html

I know someone who is a vegan. She is actually the one who motivated me to stop eating meat. She owns cats as well and they do get meat.
She isn't exactly thrilled about buying catfood with meat because in a way that also supports the meat industry but I suppose her love for cats is bigger than that :3

[Saxon]

31 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

Right. In my opinion you don't own them, they are part of the family. Ownership implies that you put yourself above the animal and that shouldn't be the case.
For example, I saw an article about a woman from LA who was dragging her cat around on a leash...
http://ktla.com/2017/01/24/l-a-authorities-searching-for-suspect-after-woman-caught-on-camera-dragging-cat/
She either doesn't give a shit or that cat is just an accessoire. Either way, she should not own a cat!

I don't eat meat but not feeding a cat meat or forcing your diet on any animal is simply retarded.
For example, cats can't even eat anything other than meat. That's literally all they eat! They ingest stuff like grass just to throw up hair more easily...
I heard of someone who was keeping their kitten on a vegan diet.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/24/kitten-vegan-diet-nearly-dies_n_3644213.html

I know someone who is a vegan. She is actually the one who motivated me to stop eating meat. She owns cats as well and they do get meat.
She isn't exactly thrilled about buying catfood with meat because in a way that also supports the meat industry but I suppose her love for cats is bigger than that :3

So I looked into it earlier in the thread and you can buy vegan food for cats that is fortified with essential nutrients, if you really want to.
Cats are going to kill wild creatures anyway though, so you know, unless somebody keeps their cat in doors, it's going to be eating flesh anyway.

I'm not sure how I feel about keeping cats indoors, because it's not really fair on them, but if you let them out they kill the birds, which is not fair on the birds.

The whole idea of pets just has loads of problems IMO, but it's not as if I'm going to be able to change the way anybody thinks about this.

[WileyWarWeasel]

10 hours ago, Saxon said:

So I looked into it earlier in the thread and you can buy vegan food for cats that is fortified with essential nutrients, if you really want to.
Cats are going to kill wild creatures anyway though, so you know, unless somebody keeps their cat in doors, it's going to be eating flesh anyway.

I'm not sure how I feel about keeping cats indoors, because it's not really fair on them, but if you let them out they kill the birds, which is not fair on the birds.

The whole idea of pets just has loads of problems IMO, but it's not as if I'm going to be able to change the way anybody thinks about this.

It seems that humans introduce problems and then create more problems trying to solve them.

[Käpt'n]

On 29.1.2017 at 7:45 AM, WileyWarWeasel said:

It seems that humans introduce problems and then create more problems trying to solve them.

Isn't that how PCs work?

[WileyWarWeasel]

3 hours ago, Käpt'n said:

Isn't that how PCs work?

Almost all technology when you think about it.

[Mikazuki Marazhu]

[Käpt'n]

On 28.1.2017 at 8:48 PM, Saxon said:

So I looked into it earlier in the thread and you can buy vegan food for cats that is fortified with essential nutrients, if you really want to.
Cats are going to kill wild creatures anyway though, so you know, unless somebody keeps their cat in doors, it's going to be eating flesh anyway.

I'm not sure how I feel about keeping cats indoors, because it's not really fair on them, but if you let them out they kill the birds, which is not fair on the birds.

The whole idea of pets just has loads of problems IMO, but it's not as if I'm going to be able to change the way anybody thinks about this.

There is only one good reason I can think of for buying vegan pet food... And that is that it doesn't indirectly support the meat industry that you avoid by being a vegan in the first place. I mean, the meat for pet food has to come from somewhere and it isn't exactly a secret that pets that eat meat get what's left over from the production of meat intended for human consumption.

However, pets don't give a shit about that. They just want to eat. And if your cat doesn't agree with you pushing your vegan diet on it your house is gonna smell like cat piss in no time at all!

Keeping cats inside is fine in my opinion. As long as you care for them properly they are gonna be fine. I mean, a cat that was raised indoors can't miss the outside if it has never experienced in the first place. Besides, they aren't wild animals. They are domesticated. They are bred to be around humans. The outside can also be dangerous for cats depending on where you live. Dogs are doing fine in your yard because they stay there. A cat will leave your yard to go who knows where and ends up run over like it happened to one of our cats .__.

I have problems with the concept of pets as well, but as long as you treat a domesticated animal as part of your family that's fine in my opinion. Dogs and cats and even rodents show affection towards the humans who look after them. It's fine.

On the other hand, consider the lemurs I always shoot at the local zoo.

That's Andora. She knows me, she comes out when she sees me and she climbs on my lap when she wants some attention.
It has never come to my mind to see her as some kind of pet in any shape or form. I have joked about it on here in the past but to me she is a friend. Someone I know who I visit on the weekends. And to her I'm probably just a place to keep her feet warm when it's cold outside and during the summer my skin tastes salty which she seems to enjoy.
She isn't really domesticated, trying to keep a ruffed lemurs as a pet would end in a disaster. Which is why so many lemurs are being kept in awful conditions on Madagascar because their owners can't handle them anymore once they hit sexual maturity.

So yeah, my point about pets hasn't really changed. Keep something that's domesticated and don't treat it like something you own, treat it like a member of your family. That makes everyone happy, including the animal

2 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

Almost all technology when you think about it.

That is true.