Rant:Going vegan won't save us ;)

[Nova]

So recently i saw a comment on youtube of some person who thinks that veganism would save us and animals and insulted everyone who was against him.

It would technically be horrible for us.

Imagine every person on the world would go vegan.

There would be billion of people losing their jobs.Including the jobs of all of my african relatives

Whats with the babies? They could die from malnutriton if they are far in a Generation.

Cows,chicken,etc? Cow winds aka farts are also a factor of the climate change .

Now imagine we would stop breeding them and abandoning them. Yes they would be free but fuck up the nature by eating every piece of grass and vegetation and also would reproduce uncontrolled and rapidly at an alarming rate. Also imagine the variantions of mutated viruses.

Thats why I hate our human logic, we find a solution but don't calculate what could happen afterwards.

I didnt post that in my older pet vegan thread because they are different.

[Käpt'n]

It wouldn't save it but it would make it a lot better.

(Not about veganism, I know. But close enough. Also, this video is about getting rid of pretty much all products coming from animals so they say vegetarian but you could argue that it's actually about veganism.)

[TrishaCat]

This forum has more threads complaining about vegans than vegans posting in it

[Snagged]

Oh if everyone  went vegan the world wouldn't indeed be saved. I am more concerned about our existence threatening disasters like pandemic, nuclear war or a massive asteroid strike but if we did go vegan, at least the chances of us dying on a planet with inhospitable climate due to human made climate change (technically, accelerated) wouldn't be so high, which is also one of my concerns.

If you're a meat lover but concerned about cow farts, eat insects. It's far more ecologocial to grow them for food

[Mayonnaise]

Eh, we're losing jobs to machines in these sectors anyway. Wouldn't make much difference IMHO.

Less babies means less humans, so it's good for other species.

Predators, disease, hunger, etc, will take care of that. Most of the domesticated breeds are not that resilient. And fucking viruses frequently jump from the fucking livestock population, getting rid of them will reduce that.

 

2 minutes ago, Snagged Cub said:

 

If you're a meat lover but concerned about cow farts, eat insects. It's far more ecologocial to grow them for food

Yeah sago and silk worm are delicious!

[Jtrekkie]

Two points, since I'm in a rush.

1.

Vegetarians require synthetic supplements, which may be more expensive that food, to maintain recommended nutrient uptake. In some individuals, vital nutrients can't be produced or processed from plant matter alone.

2. 

Not all land capable of sustaining animal life is arable. The most efficient ecosystem including humans will include humans eating animals. Husbandry has the benefit of allowing the system to be adjusted more efficiently than I'd possible by natural means.

[Vallium]

btw if by some strange chance everyone went vegan and all domestic farm animals were "free"...well, they wouldnt be free. Maybe many of them may become pets (Even then PETA brand animal rights activists are highly against pet ownership for the sake of human entertainment), what would be left of the living farm animals would be euthanized because they cannot be returned to the wild, PETA has very much done this with domesticated animals "rescued" before.

[LazerMaster5]

 

[WileyWarWeasel]

7 hours ago, Nova said:

Yes they would be free but fuck up the nature by eating every piece of grass and vegetation and also would reproduce uncontrolled and rapidly at an alarming rate.

I think you mean humans ^__^

Note the above doesn't include other forms of biomass like phytomass (plants).

The below from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4534254/

"Global phytomass stores. Calculated from table 2 of Smil (11), assuming 1 t carbon ∼35 × 109 joules. ZJ = zeta joules = joules × 1021."

"Number of years of phytomass food potentially available to feed the global human population. Calculated from the total stored phytomass energy of the planet divided by the metabolic energy needs to feed the global population for 1 y (i.e., joules/joules per year = years) assuming an 8.4-MJ per capita daily diet for the entire year. Rapidly decreasing trend line indicates increasing dominance of phytomass by humankind. For reasons given in the text, these values are very conservative. Little margin remains to safely continue the current trend."

 

If it wasn't for the fact that we're mostly eating fossil fuels (ie by conversion into fertilizer in order to grow plants) we would've depleted the planet's phytomass stores until the ecosystem supporting human and most other complex life collapsed a long time ago.

[Käpt'n]

6 hours ago, Jtrekkie said:

Two points, since I'm in a rush.

1.

Vegetarians require synthetic supplements.

To be blunt, that is bullshit. I am a vegetarian and I don't need them. I just stopped eating meat, I didn't change my diet too much beyond that. I still eat eggs for example.
I also started eating just a little bit of soy and all sorts of legumes that contain protein.
I am doing absolutely fine without supplements.

[Saxon]

Hello. I'm a vegetarian, because of environmental concerns. Apparently I am an existential threat to your way of life.
The arguments against eating less meat which have been proposed in this thread are astounding because of their irrelevancy:

-A false dichotomy is presented between eating meat and turning the entire world vegan overnight. Most environmental scientists simply suggest that a gradual reduction in the amount of meat we consume would help alleviate the deleterious effects of land use-change on our environment.

-Nova claims that if we don't eat livestock that they will take over the world and there will be pandemics of zoonotic disease. This is wrong because humans are in charge of breeding livestock, and we take special measures to maintain livestock numbers at concentrations which are far higher than the natural world would be capable of supporting, which is why zoonotic diseases manifest in the first place.
A real concern might be that human heritage could be lost, because if people breed less livestock, then some breeds of farm animals may eventually become rare or extinct. This is not exactly anything new though; obsolete breeds of livestock go extinct all the time, often because of industrial agriculture.

-Wolfnight claims that, if we stopped eating meat, then we would have to euthanise all of our livestock, which would be cruel. This again assumes that the world would turn vegetarian overnight. In a world where people gradually eat less meat, you would simply just...breed less livestock. No massive kill-offs required.

-'Vegetarians need to eat synthetic supplements'. I don't take any supplements, but again, this is a false dichotomy which assumes that the only option is to be a strict vegetarian or a meat eater. Most environmental scientists simply recommend eating less meat and don't require people to abandon it all together (and many nutritionists will also recommend this, since many diseases that are endemic in the west, such as obesity, result from over-consumption of fatty and high-protein foods, which are typically meats).

 

 

Honestly, I don't know why so many people have these weird misconceptions about vegetarianism, but I suspect that it is because they simply want to find an excuse not to think about changing their lifestyle.

 

[WileyWarWeasel]

@SaxonHow's this for a dichotomy.

Here is a carnivore:

This is a herbivore:

 

Which one is more kawaii? ^__^

[Saxon]

8 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

@SaxonHow's this for a dichotomy.

Here is a carnivore:

This is a herbivore:

 

Which one is more kawaii? ^__^

Also, by the way I found your perspective that we are 'eating the fossil fuels' pretty interesting, because I hadn't actually thought of it that way before.

Those diagrams of the proportion of terrestrial animal biomass that is livestock really hammer home a point too. When users complain that they think if we stop killing livestock that we will end up living in a 'cow and sheep world', where the earth is over-run by domestic animals; we actually live in that world right now.

[Vallium]

3 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

@SaxonHow's this for a dichotomy.

Here is a carnivore:

This is a herbivore:

 

Which one is more kawaii? ^__^

[WileyWarWeasel]

16 minutes ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

Because I'm trying to force a kawaii dichotomy, there's no room for anything in between ;P

[Zeke]

17 hours ago, Jtrekkie said:

1.

Vegetarians require synthetic supplements, which may be more expensive that food, to maintain recommended nutrient uptake. In some individuals, vital nutrients can't be produced or processed from plant matter alone.

 

I am not a Vegetarian, but there are non-meat foods that are high in protein and other nutrients. The people who have to take supplements are either not eating correctly, or eating too much foods like Soy as a meat replacement that can inhibit your body's ability to absorb key nutrients.

As much as I like the occasional roasted cow ass and fried yard bird, I do think that we need to eat less of it.

[Käpt'n]

1 hour ago, Zeke said:

I am not a Vegetarian, but there are non-meat foods that are high in protein and other nutrients. The people who have to take supplements are either not eating correctly, or eating too much foods like Soy as a meat replacement that can inhibit your body's ability to absorb key nutrients.

As much as I like the occasional roasted cow ass and fried yard bird, I do think that we need to eat less of it.

Ever since I stopped eating meat my diet has become much more varied because I try all sorts of different things that contain certain nutrients that I need.
Beluga lentils are pretty amazing for example. Easy to cook with and they have a very pleasantly nutty aroma that goes well with pretty much everything.
They are high in proteins and have very low fat. You should avoid them if you have issues with hyperuricemia though.

I've also always been a huge fan of beans. I have tried all sorts of new beans and they are awesome!

Oh, and just by cutting out the meat from my diet I lost about 30 pounds without doing anything. Mainly because I eat less fried stuff and no more microwave shit.

[AshleyAshes]

On 3/5/2017 at 5:40 PM, AshleyAshes said:

Nova makes everything sound awful.  Nova could make a post about how starvation is bad which would make you want to throw away all the food in your house and never eat again.

I WAS JOKING AT THE TIME.  WTF, HOW DID THIS COME TRUE!?

[Vallium]

2 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

I WAS JOKING AT THE TIME.  WTF, HOW DID THIS COME TRUE!?

Another quality Nova™ thread

[Zeke]

On March 19, 2017 at 4:23 PM, Käpt'n said:

Ever since I stopped eating meat my diet has become much more varied because I try all sorts of different things that contain certain nutrients that I need.
Beluga lentils are pretty amazing for example. Easy to cook with and they have a very pleasantly nutty aroma that goes well with pretty much everything.
They are high in proteins and have very low fat. You should avoid them if you have issues with hyperuricemia though.

I've also always been a huge fan of beans. I have tried all sorts of new beans and they are awesome!

Oh, and just by cutting out the meat from my diet I lost about 30 pounds without doing anything. Mainly because I eat less fried stuff and no more microwave shit.

I still enjoy Lentils and rice with a bit of hot sauce to go with it.

Mung beans are also very good in protein and fiber. It's also good with curry sauce.

I am also a skinny twat that could stand to gain some fat. But no! Genetics tells me to go fuck myself and lose 10 pounds by vacuuming. :V

[Käpt'n]

21 hours ago, Zeke said:

I am also a skinny twat that could stand to gain some fat. But no! Genetics tells me to go fuck myself and lose 10 pounds by vacuuming. :V

Please! Give me your genes!

[FlynnCoyote]

On 19/03/2017 at 11:12 PM, WileyWarWeasel said:

 

I don't care what your point is, I'm quoting because this creature is adorable. Look at that face! =D

[Faust]

16 hours ago, Käpt'n said:

Please! Give me your genes!

Why are skinny genes so fashionable right now?
I only seem to have flared genes, tending towards baggy.

[Wulfila]

i will never give up meat! NEVER!

[Saxon]

On 18/03/2017 at 11:11 PM, Battlechili said:

This forum has more threads complaining about vegans than vegans posting in it

I was wondering whether this is because vegetarians and vegans see how extreme and weird people's views about them are, and then don't bother posting.

Certainly though, I regularly across rants about how nasty 'militant vegans' are, but have never met a vegan who even wanted to convince me that I should be vegan too. ...Like, I've never even come across one who even made a polite suggestion, let alone a 'militant' argument.

 

[WileyWarWeasel]

18 hours ago, FlynnCoyote said:

I don't care what your point is, I'm quoting because this creature is adorable. Look at that face! =D

It's a coyote ;3

14 hours ago, Saxon said:

I was wondering whether this is because vegetarians and vegans see how extreme and weird people's views about them are, and then don't bother posting.

Certainly though, I regularly across rants about how nasty 'militant vegans' are, but have never met a vegan who even wanted to convince me that I should be vegan too. ...Like, I've never even come across one who even made a polite suggestion, let alone a 'militant' argument.

 

These guys are serious about eating their greens.

[Faust]

18 hours ago, Saxon said:

Certainly though, I regularly across rants about how nasty 'militant vegans' are, but have never met a vegan who even wanted to convince me that I should be vegan too.

Militant ANYTHING is pretty unpleasant. Militant Buddhists were proper terrors in Edo period Japan for example.

I don't think I've ever met any full-on vegans, but the vegetarians I've known have all been just... ordinary people really. That's the problem with militant-ism, they make so much noise nobody notices the quiet, pleasant, sane, non-militant variety. See also Islam.

[Käpt'n]

On 22.3.2017 at 0:59 PM, Faust said:

Why are skinny genes so fashionable right now?
I only seem to have flared genes, tending towards baggy.

I am just trying to lose more weight right now, the proper genetical equipment would be nice to have right now

[Bloodshot_Eyes]

On 3/18/2017 at 3:41 PM, Nova said:

Now imagine we would stop breeding them and abandoning them. Yes they would be free but fuck up the nature by eating every piece of grass and vegetation and also would reproduce uncontrolled and rapidly at an alarming rate. Also imagine the variantions of mutated viruses.

Yeah, because generations of captivity have totally trained them to survive in the wild. They'll totally live long enough to breed en masse.

It'll be the cow and chicken apocalypse. 

[Faust]

10 hours ago, Käpt'n said:

I am just trying to lose more weight right now, the proper genetical equipment would be nice to have right now

Yeah, a fast metabolism is a boon right enough, but don't forget that genotype is not phenotype and a lot of issues - weight included - are more environmental than genetic. Y'all may have a predisposition, but you can overcome it with a bit of careful planning and willpower.

Well, usually - some medical problems are harder to overcome than others! That's when your friendly local gene splicing madman doctor / weight loss clinic can help.

A woman I used to know swore that the key to improving the effects of weight loss diets was to replace your gut bacteria by taking a violent course of powerful antibiotics then having an enema of healthy bacteria. Don't try this at home though kids - antibiotics are dangerous if misused, and so are bacteria if you can't tell the good ones from the bad ones! Some of the more expensive probiotic tablets can allegedly help too. Not those crappy little milkshakes you get in the supermarkets though.

Note that this is not from experience but hearsay - I strongly recommend thorough investigation of the scientific proofs before indulging in any unproven dietary practices, otherwise you end up with lemon juice, rolfing and... urgh.... ATKINS.

5 hours ago, Bloodshot_Eyes said:

Yeah, because generations of captivity have totally trained them to survive in the wild. They'll totally live long enough to breed en masse.

It'll be the cow and chicken apocalypse. 

As much as I'd like to see an apocalypse episode of Cow and Chicken, I'll say that there's plenty of places in the world where they would not only survive but probably become a domestic pest if not controlled. The UK for example has no wild predators of a size significant enough to take down a cow. It's bad enough waking up to find the foxes have been through your litter bins, but imagine the trauma of waking to find a cow munching on your prize azaleas.

No, if meat ever became untenable as a source of protein from a commercial perspective, they wouldn't turn them loose. They'd shoot them.

[Revates]

On 23/03/2017 at 1:02 AM, Saxon said:

I was wondering whether this is because vegetarians and vegans see how extreme and weird people's views about them are, and then don't bother posting.

Certainly though, I regularly across rants about how nasty 'militant vegans' are, but have never met a vegan who even wanted to convince me that I should be vegan too. ...Like, I've never even come across one who even made a polite suggestion, let alone a 'militant' argument.

 

I actually have vegans at my door attempting to bash it down and take away my animal products on a daily basis.

[Saxon]

Just now, Revates said:

I actually have vegans at my door attempting to bash it down and take away my animal products on a daily basis.

The carnage! Well..the vegetablage?

[Revates]

2 minutes ago, Saxon said:

The carnage! Well..the vegetablage?

I KNOW RIGHT? THIS NEEDS TO STOP, VEGANS HAVE GONE TOO FAR. First they took the meat weekly magazines from the mail box now they're trying to break into my home for my DAIRY, THINK OF THE DAIRY SAXON.