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Rocky Mountain Fur Con Goes Full Heisenberg Device

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This is certainly a thread...

I keep getting put further and further away from wanting to go to cons now, but I realise that that's a stupid thought and I might be able to go one day if I have enough money to.

Or be like my friend who literally went with a psychology group and came back pondering what to make her fursona be.

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3 hours ago, FenrirDarkWolf said:

This is certainly a thread...

I keep getting put further and further away from wanting to go to cons now, but I realise that that's a stupid thought and I might be able to go one day if I have enough money to.

Or be like my friend who literally went with a psychology group and came back pondering what to make her fursona be.

Cons for any fandom can be great really.  I really enjoy 'getting my nerd on' buying things and just indulging in geekery and cons are a great place for that.  Most cons generally go on without a hitch but you'll only hear stories about when things go outright sideways.

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^^I mean, hell, you never see a news story about a plane that landed successfully with no problem. That's not news.

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6 hours ago, FenrirDarkWolf said:

This is certainly a thread...

I keep getting put further and further away from wanting to go to cons now, but I realise that that's a stupid thought and I might be able to go one day if I have enough money to.

Or be like my friend who literally went with a psychology group and came back pondering what to make her fursona be.

cons are cool & good

the RMFC drama is pretty exceptional - both in the nature of the drama, and in how poorly it was handled. most seasoned cons, while definitely not perfect, have at least marginally competent staff capable of handling shit like this

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17 minutes ago, kazooie said:

cons are cool & good

the RMFC drama is pretty exceptional - both in the nature of the drama, and in how poorly it was handled. most seasoned cons, while definitely not perfect, have at least marginally competent staff capable of handling shit like this

Why do I get the impression that furry cons are disproportionately likely to be poorly managed compared to other fandoms?

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7 minutes ago, Calemeyr said:

Why do I get the impression that furry cons are disproportionately likely to be poorly managed compared to other fandoms?

i think you might be setting the bar a bit too high for other fandoms (and maybe humanity in general) - the guy in the papercraft gundam suit probably isn't going to be better suited to run a con

but seriously, cons are a blast, as long as you don't take 'em too seriously

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6 minutes ago, kazooie said:

i think you might be setting the bar a bit too high for other fandoms (and maybe humanity in general) - the guy in the papercraft gundam suit probably isn't going to be better suited to run a con

but seriously, cons are a blast, as long as you don't take 'em too seriously

Yeah, you're right. I mean there was Dashcon and all. Cons are a blast, really fun showing off your suits/cosplays to the crowd, buying rare dvds and cool art. Except Funko pops, they fugly.

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I'm aware of similar types of drama and in-fighting in other geek communities, but I honestly don't know much about how other various types of cons are run.

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1 hour ago, Troj said:

I'm aware of similar types of drama and in-fighting in other geek communities, but I honestly don't know much about how other various types of cons are run.

I only know of Megacon, and I will tell you this: They need to make a profit, and to maximize profit they dont allow bullshit since they are paying the usage of the convention center rather than a hotel space. The last time I went we shared the convention space with a cheerleader competition, they set down security to prevent those who were going to megacon to NOT be able to bug the cheerleader competition. But thats an Anime and comic convention

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Pretty much what Deksai said, a lot of conventions at convention centers, Most of the furry cons I've seen are run out of hotels. Anthrocon has what 7000 attendees and Anime Expo  hits 100k in that same year. So yeah I mean you can pass off "no different than other geek fandoms" as an excuse for so long I guess.

It also doesn't compare or hold water since most of the geek fandom conventions have industry backing and sponsorship, furry pretty much does not. So of course those that have to deal with industry will have better standards. They lose the industry backing, they may as well have Anthrocon's piss poor attendance numbers (in comparison  to what a con like Anime Expo brings).

All the other geek fandoms really need to cater to making sure they can bring in industry support and not have to worry too much about the guy with some messed up fetish, whereas furry cons need to get all types in there or they make less money because it's really fan sponsored.

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5 hours ago, QT Melon said:

They lose the industry backing, they may as well have Anthrocon's piss poor attendance numbers (in comparison  to what a con like Anime Expo brings).

Errr... The reason the largest anime conventions are much larger isn't due to lack of industry backing, it's due to the much larger size of the fandom as a whole.  In comparison to furry, anime is MASSIVE and has much broader mainstream appeal.  Honestly, 'big industry money' isn't what grows cons, it's the size of their fanbases.  Cons basically pay for themselves in attendance fees so as attendance grows, the financial resources to the con grows.  Further more, few if any anime conventions recieve financial support from the anime industry.  While they cater to the industry and co-operate, they are not backed/sponsored/funded by the North American anime industry.  They're funded by attendees.

Keep in mind that you can buy mainstream anime merch like Naruto or others from Wal-Mart or Target meanwhile the closest you'll get to 'Furry Merch' is if there's any Zootopia stuff in stock. Or the multiple streaming networks, even Amazon rolled out an Anime service this year.  There's an anime cable channel.  There's manga on the shelves of bookstores (At least the book stores that haven't shut down).  You can get your Attack on Titan on at Hot Topic.  And so on.  Furry is absolutely tiny if you measure it up against anime, flat out.

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48 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Errr... The reason the largest anime conventions are much larger isn't due to lack of industry backing, it's due to the much larger size of the fandom as a whole.  In comparison to furry, anime is MASSIVE and has much broader mainstream appeal. 

 

meanwhile the closest you'll get to 'Furry Merch' is if there's any Zootopia stuff in stock. Or the multiple streaming networks, even Amazon rolled out an Anime service this year.  There's an anime cable channel.  There's manga on the shelves of bookstores (At least the book stores that haven't shut down).  You can get your Attack on Titan on at Hot Topic.  And so on.  Furry is absolutely tiny if you measure it up against anime, flat out.

So basically you agreed with what I said if you look at it.

Industry backing is what gets the fanbase to grow. Before it was people bringing in copies of bootlegs as college students, and eventually some of those fans worked at places to get licensing agreements to get more anime in mainstream, the same with manga. Anime and manga were completely made for consumerism, while Furry is still perpetuated by fan work. What GoH can furry get, compared to many GoH that anime or comics can? They can also get sponsored by those companies distributing work.

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^^^That sounds like a Faustian Bargain in the making to me, though. With growth and increased popularity come both gains and losses.

I can also imagine various cringeworthy ways that Corporate America might try to commercialize, commodify, or commoditize the fandom, because I know they inevitably wouldn't understand and wouldn't respect what really makes it tick.

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Well I mean there are Adult Entertainment cons which is backed by the porn industry lol. I am pretty sure people know a porn star name over a furry one, but I digress.

 

Also my amusement factor is rising

https://twitter.com/BoozyBarrister/status/856658615247261700

Hahahahahaha

 

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8 hours ago, QT Melon said:

So basically you agreed with what I said if you look at it.

Industry backing is what gets the fanbase to grow. Before it was people bringing in copies of bootlegs as college students, and eventually some of those fans worked at places to get licensing agreements to get more anime in mainstream, the same with manga. Anime and manga were completely made for consumerism, while Furry is still perpetuated by fan work. What GoH can furry get, compared to many GoH that anime or comics can? They can also get sponsored by those companies distributing work.

Most furries tend to get cartoon and animators GoHs like Greg Weisman, Jim Cummings, and Clancy Brown with a few of the more popular artists within the community. It's technically has some consumer value, but it's hard without touching base into the X-rated community or things that are strictly meant for kids.

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10 hours ago, QT Melon said:

So basically you agreed with what I said if you look at it.

Industry backing is what gets the fanbase to grow. Before it was people bringing in copies of bootlegs as college students, and eventually some of those fans worked at places to get licensing agreements to get more anime in mainstream, the same with manga. Anime and manga were completely made for consumerism, while Furry is still perpetuated by fan work. What GoH can furry get, compared to many GoH that anime or comics can? They can also get sponsored by those companies distributing work.

So... Where do you see no large corporations making 'furry content'?  Is it not Zootopia with it's one billion plus take at the theater?  How about a huge chunk of the Disney canon while we're at it?  Is it not the swarm of 'Pokefurs' who's fursonas are derived from a toy and card game which is made by the Pokemon Company of which one third is own by Nintendo, one of the largest toy and video game companies on the face of the planet?  Is it not Bojack Horseman, produced by Netflix, a company with a hundred million subscribers?

Actually, no, it's not.  It's not any of that.  All of that are the things that the furry fandom borrows.  With the exception of an extremely small minority, everything in the furry fandom that is not fan produced, is not 'furry', it's just stuff borrowed from other places and fandom.  The furry fandom is at small because it is best described as 'A giant fanfiction fandom where everyone has their own OC'.  And that's why it's smaller than anime or any other anime, it's not that no one is making 'furry content', if your metric is 'talking animal people' then 'furry' is everywhere and in every genre but none of that was made for furries.  The anime fandom for example isn't just 'Japanese Cartoons' but it even has it's own tropes and genres, 'Mecha' or 'Magical Girl' anime and many others are inherent to anime and have instead been borrowed by other genres or counties.  No body borrows things from the furry fandom because there's nothing to borrow.  How many people can really be a 'furry' when you can only define it as 'I like talking dog people'?  It's too niche a definition to draw in the numbers that other fandoms draw in.  What furries really want is 'Glee, but with talking dogs', 'The Simpsons, but with talking dogs', 'Saving Private Ryan, but with talking dogs', '24, but with talking dogs', 'Survivor: Island Of Talking Dogs', 'Marvel's Talking Dogs Of SHIELD' and so on.

You can blame a lack of 'investment' by industry but that's a crock.  It's that for the most part 'Furry' is boring because it's just putting talking dogs into things and that doesn't have a broad appeal as the media in other fandom.

BTW, highest grossing anime film?  Your Name/Kimi No Na Wa, $350 million+.  A drop in the bucket compared to Zootopia.

For good measure, let's consult Wikipedia's list of top 20 animated films and pluck out the ones with talking animals...

Finding Dory:             $1,028,570,889
Zootopia:            $1,023,784,195
Lion King:             $968,483,777
Finding Nemo             $940,335,536
Ice Age: Dawn of the Dinosaurs     $886,686,817
Ice Age: Continental Drift     $877,244,782
The Secret Life of Pets     $875,457,937
Madagascar 3:             $746,921,274
Kung Fu Panda 2:         $665,692,281

You know what this totals to?  $8,013,177,488.  Eight freakin' billion dollars.  Kung Fu Panda 2 there is #20 with still TWICE as much money as the Your Name/Kimi No Na Wa.

 

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I am not sure what argument you are making here, that all the cartoons mentioned are furry?

Ok, so?

The companies still aren't really putting sponsorships into the con, which is the point.

You just again agreed with me that the "considered" furry fandom is small because it is more self interest.

I am really confused because as I stated that is the problem, and what I am getting from you "is no but!" and describing the same problem I am talking about.

So like u fuk wit da war?

 

4 hours ago, Zeke said:

Most furries tend to get cartoon and animators GoHs like Greg Weisman, Jim Cummings, and Clancy Brown with a few of the more popular artists within the community. It's technically has some consumer value, but it's hard without touching base into the X-rated community or things that are strictly meant for kids.

True but I guess it would depend, ad there is a lot of X rated merchandise sold at cons like AX. I mean there was a room you got carded to go in,and sold USB anime vibrators. There were other cons where VAs showed up and had a very much X rated panel. (While there was no sex actually going on, one of the VAs did run around proclaiming he was a unicorn while holding onto a big pink dildo).

Industry backing isn't just about showing movies, it's very much about merchandising. Many don't care about how much a movie makes (within certain limits ie budget) but what they can sell . I mean Sailor Moon had curry ffs. It would also get you to understand why shows that even had good ratings would still get cancelled if it can't meet merchandising.

 

So I guess it would be up to the con chairs to see what direction and sponsors they'd take but there's the fanbase that wants it really inclusive as well....so again it's back to where it wants to fall for backing.

 

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59 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

The companies still aren't really putting sponsorship into the con, which is the point.

Again, the vast majority of anime conventions, just like furry conventions, are not sponsored by any outside corporations.  I can't even think of a North American anime convention off hand that is sponsored. (Though there are some big comic cons, including The Comicon and others that are profit run and have huge sponsorship deals)  I'm not sure where you're getting the idea that there is a deficit of corporate sponsorship in the furry fandom which results in the conventions being smaller.  The most 'money' from corporations to anime conventions comes in the form of free merch to give away as various prizes in the contests and charity auctions.

At most you'll usually see some companies having tables in the convention space to plug their services, which are alongside the tables where other conventions and such plug themselves and they sometimes do panels to do Q&A on their business.  Crunchyroll and Funimation's combined panel about trying to run a streaming network with 0-1 day releases.  But seriously, Crunchyroll and Funimation's panels at Anime North last year were no bigger than the table that the Canadian Security Intelligence Services's table.  They are NOT pumping money into those cons.

P.S. Yes, CSIS recruits at anime cons.

105756-1413278048974.jpeg

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Keep in mind that if the furry fandom were to become the "it thing," merchandisers would inevitably emphasize and encourage the profitable and marketable aspects of the fandom, and discourage or de-emphasize the parts that don't bring in the cold hard cash. This would inevitably lower the fandom's barriers to entry, so we'd likely see a influx of "new blood," and this could change the culture of the fandom as we know it, for good or ill.

Basically, think of the good and the bad things you associate with Comic-Con and the general modern geek scene, and ask yourself if you'd want furry to go the same direction.

 

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3 minutes ago, Troj said:

Keep in mind that if the furry fandom were to become the "it thing," merchandisers would inevitably emphasize and encourage the profitable and marketable aspects of the fandom, and discourage or de-emphasize the parts that don't bring in the cold hard cash. This would inevitably lower the fandom's barriers to entry, so we'd likely see a influx of "new blood," and this could change the culture of the fandom as we know it, for good or ill.

Basically, think of the good and the bad things you associate with Comic-Con and the general modern geek scene, and ask yourself if you'd want furry to go the same direction.

I don't think that's possible though.  The furry fandom isn't the size it is due to some missing secret sauce of popularity like large scale investment.  It's that the narrow definition of 'furry' is freaking boring to most people.  Most furry is just 'taking things and putting talking dogs in it'.  It's not a failure to capitalize, it's an inability to be capitalize.  It's not like cartoons with talking people is at all new, it literally goes back through the entire history of animation; 89 years ago a talking mouse was piloting a steam boat and the company behind that that now generates 56 billion dollars per year and they still put that talking mouse on on everything from pajama pants to new cartoon shorts.

'Furry' as a fandom just isn't something that has broad enough appeal.  It's not even the 'porn and the pervs' or any easy scapegoat like that.  It's just boring to most people.  You can't pump money into boring and make it mainstream popular.

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When "How to Draw Furries" books started showing up in Michaels arts & crafts stores, I knew we had arrived. Someone is paying attention.

Although Zootopia and other animated films involve anthropomorphic animals, I don't consider them to be furry. To me, we're all about the OCs. Not necessarily fursonas, but original anthropomorphic animal characters. Foist some kind of official furry canon on the people, and it ceases to be the furry that I know and love.

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31 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

'Furry' as a fandom just isn't something that has broad enough appeal.  It's not even the 'porn and the pervs' or any easy scapegoat like that.  It's just boring to most people.  You can't pump money into boring and make it mainstream popular.

In its present and standard incarnation, yes, I'd agree it's boring to the average person.

But, I still wonder what sort of marketing "spin" might get plebs, trendsters, and teenyboppers interested in the fandom at least superficially.

In any case, my point was more "be careful what you wish for." Whether or not the fandom could ever go in that direction is anybody's guess, though.

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The entire con isn't "brought to you by" but it isn't unusual for corporate to give grab bags or small parts of the con like say a lanyard a would have a logo.

:P

You know clever product placement so they can sell merchandise.

It isn't far fetched for some stores to come in depending on how the con markets itself, it has nothing to do with "furry is boring" cuz that is a beyond dumb excuse not to sell to 4000 possible customers lmao

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2 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

I don't think that's possible though.  The furry fandom isn't the size it is due to some missing secret sauce of popularity like large scale investment.  It's that the narrow definition of 'furry' is freaking boring to most people.  Most furry is just 'taking things and putting talking dogs in it'.  It's not a failure to capitalize, it's an inability to be capitalize.  It's not like cartoons with talking people is at all new, it literally goes back through the entire history of animation; 89 years ago a talking mouse was piloting a steam boat and the company behind that that now generates 56 billion dollars per year and they still put that talking mouse on on everything from pajama pants to new cartoon shorts.

'Furry' as a fandom just isn't something that has broad enough appeal.  It's not even the 'porn and the pervs' or any easy scapegoat like that.  It's just boring to most people.  You can't pump money into boring and make it mainstream popular.

P much this.

As a non furry I can say that I have really liked things with anthro animals in them. But in those cases character design was just a single factor. In middle school I liked Redwall a lot, I had several of the books, and while having the characters be animals added something to the setting it didn't define it. I mean talking animals are everywhere, they sell our breakfast cereals. But there's always more to these things. Usually they have context to them. Anthro-characters are popular when they are used as an element of something bigger, not just being a thing in themselves. The Rescuers Down Under was fun for me as a kid because it was an exciting adventure. Not because it had talking mice. The first movie fucking sucked and talking mice aren't interesting enough on their own to save it. Even Zootopia, the most furry thing I've seen in mainstream media has the weight of good animation and an intriguing story. The thing that makes Zootopia interesting isn't just in talking animals, it's the whole package, the setting, the characters as people, the plot. 

The furry fandom from the outside just looks like a bunch of random characters who don't belong to anything, a bunch of fanart of varying quality, and lots of porn. People delving into the fandom are rarely offered more than "My OC/Persona is a talking animal" and without any kind of substance or context to that most people aren't going to be invested. Every now and then you find a comic or a neat looking character but that on its own is still not enough to really be marketable. You sort of have to really be into animal people as a thing by itself to get a lot out of the fandom and there's not much IN the fandom that you couldn't get elsewhere. Also, some fans, like in all fandoms, are a little obsessive. That's another thing, there's a huge number of people who only like things casually and don't like being in fandom environments. I like video games but typically avoid participating in any fandom because A) I can play a game without the fans. B) while some of the fanart is cool and I like talking about things I enjoy, I have my friends to fill that need. C) I just don't like most things enough to want to join a community based around that thing. It's also confusing when people make it out to be a lifestyle when really it isn't. Furry is, in reality, very broad and unfocused. The only thing people who are into the fandom have in common is a love for a choice of character design. A character design that exists outside of the furry community. TBH if I were to draw an anthro character I probably wouldn't put it on FA or a furry site. I'd just put it on DA or Tumblr or something with all of my other art. I wouldn't think to tag it as furry, it'd just be another character probably in the same category as other fantasy creatures like elves and aliens. 

There is honestly a lot of mainstream content that features anthro animals and it sells really well, but furry is, at the end of the day, a better description of the fandom that consumes these things than it is the thing itself. 

I think if i were to put it simply it'd be like this.
From an outsider perspective:
MLP is the thing, Bronies are the fandom. You can enjoy MLP without being a Brony. 
Anthropomorphised animals are the thing, Furries are the fandom. You can have the former without ever bothering with the latter.

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13 hours ago, QT Melon said:

 

 

True but I guess it would depend, ad there is a lot of X rated merchandise sold at cons like AX. I mean there was a room you got carded to go in,and sold USB anime vibrators. There were other cons where VAs showed up and had a very much X rated panel. (While there was no sex actually going on, one of the VAs did run around proclaiming he was a unicorn while holding onto a big pink dildo).

Industry backing isn't just about showing movies, it's very much about merchandising. Many don't care about how much a movie makes (within certain limits ie budget) but what they can sell . I mean Sailor Moon had curry ffs. It would also get you to understand why shows that even had good ratings would still get cancelled if it can't meet merchandising.

 

So I guess it would be up to the con chairs to see what direction and sponsors they'd take but there's the fanbase that wants it really inclusive as well....so again it's back to where it wants to fall for backing.

 

7

There's a furcon that's going to happen here in about a few months that has some sponsorship from a company that runs one of the bigger Anime cons in the Tidewater area. They see $$ in it, but it may not have a second run on its own due to bad management of money.

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4 hours ago, Zeke said:

There's a furcon that's going to happen here in about a few months that has some sponsorship from a company that runs one of the bigger Anime cons in the Tidewater area. They see $$ in it, but it may not have a second run on its own due to bad management of money.

Well it's  a step though. I think too many are too ... shortsighted about it? There were cons that were born out of other cons like a Star Trek con brought in comic book ones or anime ones.

I can see in the future some stores branching out for example from home and garden shows stepping into furry and anime cons for the potential to sell wares within those fandoms due to cosplay or fursuiting.

Copic and other guys like the ones that sell either wacom or similar tablet devices making appearances for artists if they aren't too branched out from other cons. 

I started seeing more photography booths pop up because of cosplay, and not only vendors selling photos but software and hardware because people were interested in creating better media for their Flickr or related accounts.

If a con in an area can give an angle for stores to sell more goods, they will go for it but usually specialize their storefront a bit in the con

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6 hours ago, QT Melon said:

Well it's  a step though. I think too many are too ... shortsighted about it? There were cons that were born out of other cons like a Star Trek con brought in comic book ones or anime ones.

I can see in the future some stores branching out for example from home and garden shows stepping into furry and anime cons for the potential to sell wares within those fandoms due to cosplay or fursuiting.

Copic and other guys like the ones that sell either wacom or similar tablet devices making appearances for artists if they aren't too branched out from other cons. 

I started seeing more photography booths pop up because of cosplay, and not only vendors selling photos but software and hardware because people were interested in creating better media for their Flickr or related accounts.

If a con in an area can give an angle for stores to sell more goods, they will go for it but usually specialize their storefront a bit in the con

 

It's a step, but I think the management of the con itself is a problem. Personal opinions aside, they aren't very coordinated planners and often let things "slip" at the expense of personal wants.

I can see Copic and/or Wacom stepping into the Furry scene because of a lot of artists creating self-produced content using their products. Maybe fabric stores that carry a to of decent furs. Who knows?

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you know whats weird: the furry fandom have no real grounds of its own

We spawn from other fandoms, Sci-fi, anime, comics, movies, cartoons, and video games.

The thing is: we are SPECIFIC just on anthros thus we always gonna be smaller than a GENERAL anime convention.

I mean...imagine this: someone runs a convention but its SPECIFICALLY on X-Men, it will of course be big BUT not as big as a General COMIC book convention.

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8 hours ago, Zeke said:

There's a furcon that's going to happen here in about a few months that has some sponsorship from a company that runs one of the bigger Anime cons in the Tidewater area. They see $$ in it, but it may not have a second run on its own due to bad management of money.

What's the name of both the Anime Convention and the Furry Convention?

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1 hour ago, Zeke said:

It's a step, but I think the management of the con itself is a problem. Personal opinions aside, they aren't very coordinated planners and often let things "slip" at the expense of personal wants.

I can see Copic and/or Wacom stepping into the Furry scene because of a lot of self-produced content using their products. Maybe fabric stores that carry a to of decent furs. Who knows?

Yeah that's basically what I am getting at. A lot of the Furry cons don't seem to have good management and are really nothing more than glorified artist meet-ups.

I am not stupid and think that furry cons should bring in 100k ppl but I do think they can bring in bigger numbers in areas where it needs more convention coverage. I mean a person who can't make it to the big cons may be more open to an Anthro one if marketed right.

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1 hour ago, QT Melon said:

Yeah that's basically what I am getting at. A lot of the Furry cons don't seem to have good management and are really nothing more than glorified artist meet-ups.

I am not stupid and think that furry cons should bring in 100k ppl but I do think they can bring in bigger numbers in areas where it needs more convention coverage. I mean a person who can't make it to the big cons may be more open to an Anthro one if marketed right.

And pad out the furry convention with what?  Video rooms and 'major' film screenings like anime conventions have?  Well, maybe if everyone wants to see Zootopia yet again or a marathon of Duck Tales.  More dealers?  There ARN'T more dealers of furry content, the dealers ARE the artists and the fursuit makers and the few comic/merch sellers.  Concerts?  Don't quite think that the furry fandom has much attractive musical talent.  Major trailer reveals like Comicon has?  Disney won't select a dinky furry con to announce the teaser trailer for Zootopia II.  You can't say that a furry convention needs 'more' to get bigger without any idea of what there should be more of.  'More' without definition isn't a real thing, it's not a solution, it's just saying that someone else needs to 'magic up' a solution out of thin air.

About the only viable option is to ramp up the video game content since it's cheaper and easier and fairly practical.  I can't think of what else a furry con could DO to make it 'bigger'.  The furry fandom is pretty weak in terms of content.

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I don't know how to discuss this with you because you think it should be set up exactly like an anime con, which it kind of can to some degree but it it isn't a mirror.

It's an entertainment con, it's a good reason to go buy stuff. You know what PoP is in terms of purchasing?

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2 hours ago, QT Melon said:

Yeah that's basically what I am getting at. A lot of the Furry cons don't seem to have good management and are really nothing more than glorified artist meet-ups.

I am not stupid and think that furry cons should bring in 100k ppl but I do think they can bring in bigger numbers in areas where it needs more convention coverage. I mean a person who can't make it to the big cons may be more open to an Anthro one if marketed right.

BLFC. Sort of. Actually their advertisement department is ASS, but at least the convention itself is really good. (Actually the panels are ass ITS A FUCKING CASINO THOUGH HOLY LOL)

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3 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

What's the name of both the Anime Convention and the Furry Convention?

Fursonacon and Nekocon.

Guess which one's the anime con. :V

3 hours ago, QT Melon said:

Yeah that's basically what I am getting at. A lot of the Furry cons don't seem to have good management and are really nothing more than glorified artist meet-ups.

I am not stupid and think that furry cons should bring in 100k ppl but I do think they can bring in bigger numbers in areas where it needs more convention coverage. I mean a person who can't make it to the big cons may be more open to an Anthro one if marketed right.

 

A successful furry con should be able to pull in at least 400+ in their first year if their badge prices are reasonable, but that's pushing it.

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1 hour ago, Zeke said:

Fursonacon and Nekocon

Huh, weird.  While it seems that Nekocon is it's own thing, it's aligned with 'Event Support Solutions, Inc.' which ties itself to multiple exhibitions, supplying support and logistics in except for what I imagine is a share of the revenue as it's business model.  But ESSI is directly operating this 'Fursonacon' instead of assisting and it's already done a round in 2016.  Though Nekocon and ESSI seem to be SERIOUSLY tied at the hip but Nekocon predates ESSI's founding.  I wonder if it spawned from Nekocon as a profit spinoff?  I'm used to seeing the comic conventions being more aligned with large corporate productions, which allows them to tie into large corporate interests, announcements, big celebs, and a massive dealers space.  Anime conventions however are almost exclusively 'fan run' and Not For Profit and in some cases Non-profit (There's a difference) where all revenues are funneled into funding the next year.  In short, most anime cons only exist to keep existing rather than to make anyone rich.

It's just interesting.

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1 minute ago, AshleyAshes said:

Huh, weird.  While it seems that Nekocon is it's own thing, it's aligned with 'Event Support Solutions, Inc.' which ties itself to multiple exhibitions, supplying support and logistics in except for what I imagine is a share of the revenue as it's business model.  But ESSI is directly operating this 'Fursonacon' instead of assisting and it's already done a round in 2016.  Though Nekocon and ESSI seem to be SERIOUSLY tied at the hip but Nekocon predates ESSI's founding.  I wonder if it spawned from Nekocon as a profit spinoff?  I'm used to seeing the comic conventions being more aligned with large corporate productions, which allows them to tie into large corporate interests, announcements, big celebs, and a massive dealers space.  Anime conventions however are almost exclusively 'fan run' and Not For Profit and in some cases Non-profit (There's a difference) where all revenues are funneled into funding the next year.  In short, most anime cons only exist to keep existing rather than to make anyone rich.

It's just interesting.

 

It is.

ESSI bought Nekocon around 2013-14 if I recall (Maybe later). They also funded ROFcon not too long ago and I think that collapsed because they expected to see the same number as Nekocon. Plus, their older venue was small and cramped which may have led to its downfall.

From what I know of from people who are staffing/on chair  Fursonacon is that they are funding it and leaving the con chairs to do whatever it wants.

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okay, so isn't it ironic that foxler was supportive of the burned fur movement that abolished perversion and kinkyness, yet uh. you know . his dogs and 13 year olds are on his list?

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31 minutes ago, Aeon said:

okay, so isn't it ironic that foxler was supportive of the burned fur movement that abolished perversion and kinkyness, yet uh. you know . his dogs and 13 year olds are on his list?

Ironic, sure--but not surprising, given that he comes across as an "unreliable narrator" in general.

Anyway, I was more disturbed by the parts about Scorch and Kuhari. My potential-psychopath alarm bells are going off.

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https://furrytimes.net/2017/04/27/the-fandom-the-feared-itself-by-perri-rhoades/

So this article is trying to excuse the Furry Raiders and Foxler...

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But there-in lies the problem. The leader, Foxler, is not a great writer, and has serious problems explaining himself in print; particularly when constrained to the limits of a tweet. So his tweets come out reading “I hate blacks” when what he’s really trying to say is he hates the idea of human color distinctions. He sees everyone in the context of Furry, where all color distinctions cease to have meaning.

Wait, let's go back to that YouTube video and quote Foxler directly...

Quote

"Well that one, the screens that I just said about hating black people, I made that comment to piss off an artist that wouldn't do my ref sheet.  So that's where that came from."

The Furry Times: Maybe Not That Reliable!

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Ah, yes. If anybody buys that story, I gots a bridge in Brooklyn for yas, real cheap.

If you are so bad at expressing yourself that "I don't like human colour distinctions" comes out as "I don't like blacks," then you don't deserve to publish anything the approval of at least two proofreaders, and should probably stop writing altogether. Certainly, if you're supposedly that bad at expressing yourself, then people would be smart to ignore your written statements (at least) altogether, yes?

If you make statements like that while dating a black guy, something is very wrong with you.

 

 

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1 minute ago, Troj said:

Ah, yes. If anybody buys that story, I gots a bridge in Brooklyn for yas, real cheap.

If you are so bad at expressing yourself that "I don't like human colour distinctions" comes out as "I don't like blacks," then you don't deserve to publish anything the approval of at least two proofreaders, and should probably stop writing altogether. Certainly, if you're supposedly that bad at expressing yourself, then people would be smart to ignore your written statements (at least) altogether, yes?

If you make statements like that while dating a black guy, something is very wrong with you.

Compromise Theory: Foxler said that he doesn't 'see color' he only 'see's furry' to piss off an artist who wouldn't do his ref sheet. :D

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Yep--the first version of the story I heard (which you just confirmed--thanks!) was that he was "just trolling" an artist. (Based on what I've heard, this was not the first time he's done that.)

Either way, it implies that you don't really think much of your boyfriend and his possible feelings.

Oh, and as I recall reading something (maybe from Boozy?) about how SovCits often have some history of sexual crimes, and a quick Google search would appear to confirm this at least superficially. It's the perfect political "philosophy" for narcissistic, delusional, low-empathy people who resent being told what to do and have an axe to grind over having been reeled in before.

Really, the invite for that meet and the description by that housemate painted this picture of a Sith Order for Shady Shit--or is it me? It just smelled of seasoned predators grooming naive furries to accept and ultimately, rationalize increasing levels of aww-hell-naw.

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God, I love this guy!

Quote

But seriously. Fuck you if you’re a furry and you use being a furry against other people. Show some fucking solidarity, assholes.

Quote

If you are over the age of 18, and you are a furry, you never put yourself in a situation where you are alone with a goddamn minor in a private environment, you do not engage in even innocent fucking talk about sexuality or personal matters, and you support from a fucking distance.

In fact, that’s just a good general fucking rule for adults, period.

Quote

I’m not saying that you should disregard a victim or demand proof. I’m saying your reaction should be to encourage them to report the matter to the motherfucking police whose job it is to investigate such accusations and encourage the victims to get help, but it should not be to play the part of a fuzzy judge and jury, hounding folks to the ends of the internet because you got one side of a fucking story.

That final letter is absolutely heartbreaking. Poor kid. I hope he's getting the help and support he needs now. I am furious that only one person at that party showed any kind of awareness or concern. (Welp, and there's a reason why part of me is always leery of housemeets...)

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