Aeon

The forums and the overall mood of the community.

296 posts in this topic

Okay, so I requested for the last one of these to be hid because of the huge hubbub that came with it that I honestly was not expecting. But it started up again with a newbie to the forums thread being turned into a discussion about it. so I'm making it again. What is the overall problems with the community as you see it, and what are your opinions on what the forums have been and or become, and the way we present ourselves to the new, or outsiders. Are we too caustic, or is it people being sensitive.

Mind you, I'm not starting this for drama, just for the sake of the discussion going on here, and having a place to voice ideas.

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I don't see it as particularly caustic but there's definitely an absence of "yipee-kay-yay-everythings-fine" mentality (which I totally don't mind) 

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Different people have different tastes, man. FAF is huggy and fluffy; it's a different flavour of forum, and lots of us don't enjoy that. We're just doing what we like

Some furries like the art, some like overwhelming friendliness, and some just want to chat normally. If someone else doesn't like what we like, they're not forced to stick around.

 

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I don't know what you're talking about. I see no problem.

This place is great and so are all the people in it. <:

dbc.gif

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Between FAF and here, I see there's nothing wrong with the community but there's room for change.

All in all, OldFAF/PAF exists because there were people who tire of the hug box mentality for just people to speak normally while catering to their animal-headed cartoons. Perhaps joke about the fandom being a trash heap/dumpster fire once in awhile. 

From an outsider's perspective since we're not 100% furry-centric is seen as not worth joining. The self deprecating humor against the fandom, or criticism against certain aspects or known furries can be seen as caustic. 

 

I've been checking on it once in awhile and it feels like it's just quiet. 

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Personally I like this forum as it is and I think most of the people here are fairly happy with the community.

Yeah, we're open with our criticisms, we can be blunt and no one is going to cater to someone's delicate sensibilities. But I don't see anyone genuinely wanting to hurt someone else. The people on here are not bullies, they're not cruel and I don't think any of us would actually tolerate real malice. 

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I don't think there's anything wrong with the community personally. I think we're a niche community, and some people find that that niche is right for them, and stick around. Some don't, and find another one.

No one/no community is ever gonna make EVERYONE happy.

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Phoenix is okay, I just wish that most of our users could stop being hipster teenagers and start acting their age.

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To be fair. A lot of the users are still teenagers, but i see where you are coming from.

Honestly, I used to have a list of problems with here. I kind of got over it because it was the only place I could contact one of my friends without people trying to yiff me. At the present moment, I can't say I have much of a problem. I like the people here, and I like the conversations. Also, this is the only forum I'm still enrolled in because I cant stand the tumblr-fur feel i get almost everywhere. I have noticed a loss in traffic though. Things come and go.

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FAF 1.0 / Pnix is one of the only furry communities I actually tolerate, because it (compared to most places) avoids the "inclusive" furry hugbox mentalities and archetypes.
The "owo *huggles and waggles tail*" furries.
The "it's okay to be casually sexually gross and open towards other people" furries.
(At least on the forums themselves and in the official Discord channel. I can't speak for user-run splinter chats. /cough)

If it didn't, I guarantee you I wouldn't have stuck around for the better part of a decade.

This site and its community aren't for everyone. It's not going to cater to everyone's emotional and social needs.
Personally, I feel like that's perfectly okay.
We have a million other spaces for those types. We don't need this one to fill an already full social niche, just for cheap audience draw, at the expense of losing existing audience and community appeal.

We're not selling a product. You're either here because you like the audience and the environment, or you aren't, because you don't.
No one's forcing anyone to stick around or do jack shit.
And I think that's the way it should be.

 

9 minutes ago, Aeon said:

To be fair. A lot of the users are still teenagers, but i see where you are coming from.


Most of the people here are actually young adults.
We have a very small pool of teenagers.

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8 minutes ago, Aeon said:

To be fair. A lot of the users are still teenagers, but i see where you are coming from.

I disagree, But whatever.

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2 minutes ago, Vae said:

Most of the people here are actually young adults.
We have a very small pool of teenagers.

 

4 minutes ago, Imperial Impact said:

I disagree, But whatever.

thanks for the clarification on that, I always though we were a little bit of a younger crowd based on the interaction of users on here. maybe imperial is on to something then, it had me fooled. 

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I feel like we're missing a huge opportunity to utilize these forums as an anchor for the constellation of little satellite Discord communities that have sprung up. We all have different tolerances and reactions to drama and that, coupled with the sheer usability and ease of casual conversation on Discord and other services, has decimated the forum population.

Discord, and to some extent other services, have limitations in community access. You generally have to know somebody who knows somebody to break into them. Where as these forums excel at attracting people from outside the same old circles. In a sense, these forums could act as a starting point for jumping into our community and as a filter from areas with specialized mindsets and less tolerance of deviation from that mindset.

We're losing folks before we have much a chance to evaluate them for ascendance to the more active areas of our community. The result is that the only ones that do stick around are predisposed to the same social styles as the existing body, furthering the stale, bland environment. As the flow of new members slow to a trickle, satellite community centers will suffer as inevitable drama and simple changes in the lives of their participants slowly dry and break them up.

 

The biggest improvement I would like to see is the generation of new content. New threads, new ideas, new games, etc. Content is first and foremost what will attract more people and it is content that will get people to stick around long enough to open up and contribute. We need to be attractive to the content makers and to do that, they need a reason to be here. Those reasons will be variable and only the tolerance of a variety of personal approachs will produce the diversity we need to sustain the site as an entry-point to the community. To let it be dominated by one mindset or even just strongly inhospitable to others will inevitably be to the detriment of the entire community.

 

In short, we need to reach out to new folks, give them a chance (and a reason) to acclimate to our unique environment, and produce a variety of content. Users of the Discord servers need to recognize the value the forum provide and work to contribute content back to it to maintain that value.

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I think I can hear some irrelevant marketing talk somewhere.

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1 hour ago, Vae said:

We have a very small pool of teenagers.

The kind of pool that sits in the backyard of an abandoned and foreclosed house, filled with god-knows what and occasionally used to hide a body.

 

Personally, I feel Phoenixed is like a reliable old car. It's stable, pretty unique with it's own interesting stories and people, and once in awhile it catches fire and the mod-chanics have to give it a good whack.

But mostly, it's a pretty solid platform that I enjoy.

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1 hour ago, DrGravitas said:

You generally have to know somebody who knows somebody to break into them. Where as these forums excel at attracting people from outside the same old circles. In a sense, these forums could act as a starting point for jumping into our community and as a filter from areas with specialized mindsets and less tolerance of deviation from that mindset.

Literally nothing stops someone from posting their personal Discord invite links elsewhere, if they want more activity in their chats.
Nothing stops you from directly sharing that invite link with friends who aren't involved with the community, either.
Hell, I have a few in mine that have nothing to do with this place. And they get along just fine.
 

Quote

We're losing folks before we have much a chance to evaluate them for ascendance to the more active areas of our community. The result is that the only ones that do stick around are predisposed to the same social styles as the existing body, furthering the stale, bland environment. As the flow of new members slow to a trickle, satellite community centers will suffer as inevitable drama and simple changes in the lives of their participants slowly dry and break them up.

The forum is not an advertisement board or a phone book for the Discord chats, nor should it be.
There's activity here, even if it's slower than the Discords. It's always going to be slower than the Discords because chat rooms are instantaneous and conversationally-busy by nature of being... you know... chat rooms.

The growth, health, activity, etc of splinter chats should not be the mainsite's responsibility, because their maintainers can literally share them with whoever they feel like.
If you don't know anyone outside of Phoenixed, and your chat suffers because of that, better get to expanding your social circle then. /shrug


Acting like the forums need to support the chats because ??? reasons is silly. If the chats can't survive on their own merits and their own activity, that's the fault of their owners and the audiences they have drawn and been allowed to keep.

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8 minutes ago, Vae said:

Literally nothing stops someone from posting their personal Discord invite links elsewhere, if they want more activity in their chats.
Nothing stops you from directly sharing that invite link with friends who aren't involved with the community, either.
Hell, I have a few in mine that have nothing to do with this place. And they get along just fine.
 

The forum is not an advertisement board or a phone book for the Discord chats, nor should it be.
There's activity here, even if it's slower than the Discords. It's always going to be slower than the Discords because chat rooms are instantaneous and conversationally-busy by nature of being... you know... chat rooms.

The growth, health, activity, etc of splinter chats should not be the mainsite's responsibility, because their maintainers can literally share them with whoever they feel like.
If you don't know anyone outside of Phoenixed, and your chat suffers because of that, better get to expanding your social circle then. /shrug


Acting like the forums need to support the chats because ??? reasons is silly. If the chats can't survive on their own merits and their own activity, that's the fault of their owners and the audiences they have drawn and been allowed to keep.

All I said was it was a missed opportunity that hurts folks in the long run. Never said it was a responsibility of the main site or even of the Discord users. Moreover, it was intended to be directed as a general call to both groups to think of the relationship between the two. Statements regarding what "needs to be done" was intended to be read as "if you agree with this, this is what I think would need to be done in service to it".

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As long as the forum is not linked to anything specifically, like a game, a movie series or any other franchise, it will have no driving force. It won't grow, it won't change and it will just be the same thing it was before and after it died the first time.

I can't even explain why I keep coming back. I think it pretty much has just become a den of shits and giggles with the odd ball of drama rolled in. This really is a pointless site.

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I honestly can't believe I'm saying this but.

For someone like me most of what happens in this community doesn't bother me much. However for the sake of the community, I do think people need to tone it down. I honestly can't see new blood coming in if we act like curmudgeons to every new person who drops by. Poking at the community is fine but this unapologetic "I'm gonna troll users and be edgy" something just doesn't sit right.

Plus a lot of this forum is pretty dead which is a damn shame.

I mean sure you can give a "I don't give a shit, not my responsibility" attitude but sooner or later people move on with their lives. I highly doubt everyone is gonna be around forever...but I dunno it would be nice to pass on a legacy of people coming in than just letting it die...

It can be a niche, but at least make some small effort to make it a sustainable one?

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1 minute ago, QT Melon said:

It can be a niche, but at least make some small effort to make it a sustainable one?

I completely agree with you on this point, but most of the people who have tried to join are the sort of people we resent. The ones we want usually don't have anything we can laugh at them for and see our jokes as jokes.

Do you really want this sever to be filled with your murry purry furries that are currently all over FAF? The ones that will leave anyway once they notice what this forum is really about?

It's really a matter of quality over quantity and how many people find the site in the first place.

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@VaePerhaps this is a sign of the growing power of this forum, that it is able to shape the very discord chats themselves.

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I think the assumption that it's going to be full of "murrypurries" is a bit silly, I think it's also ironic that we say how we're not an "echo chamber" but we really are. We just are a different echo than "murry purry"

We don't have to go after someone uses some fandom phrase all the time, and on the other hand I don't think we should get particularly nasty if someone does a coming out thread as a furry cuz "furfag" but that doesn't mean we have to tolerate over the top behavior. I mean yeah we can tell them that's a tiring subject for a multitude of reasons, but not go out of the way to be Edgemaster.

I dunno it's at a point people are willing to jump to the conclusion some extreme side is gonna happen ...there's a middle ground lol.

 

 

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honestly, i thought i found the website for the fabled Fanboy Assault Force when i first came here. the mentioning of FAF definitely confused me.

then again, I am pretty slow to catch on to things unless i focus on them.

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You can't expect an influx of new blood into your community sufficient to grow it to any noticeable degree while also discouraging new members from joining who don't fit your inconsistent and arbitrary parameters of what appropriate behavior is.

Also hazing new people off the forum for being basic bitch furries is hilarious and all but don't invoke the old-FAF trial-by-fire meme to justify your hostility to newcomers who aren't accustomed to the forum culture.

Most of you would have left if you were hazed in your intro thread too because you're craven little herd-nerds who don't have the disposition for conflict that isn't one-sided.

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I don't even mind the edge for most parts, It's the laziness is what gets me. Because Some people (me as well) are too lazy the talk about anything.

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31 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

I honestly can't believe I'm saying this but.

For someone like me most of what happens in this community doesn't bother me much. However for the sake of the community, I do think people need to tone it down. I honestly can't see new blood coming in if we act like curmudgeons to every new person who drops by. Poking at the community is fine but this unapologetic "I'm gonna troll users and be edgy" something jut doesn't sit right.

Plus a lot of this forum is pretty dead which is a damn shame.

I mean sure you can give a "I don't give a shit, not my responsibility" attitude but sooner or later people move on with their lives. I highly doubt everyone is gonna be around forever...but I dunno it would be nice to pass on a legacy of people coming in than just letting it die...

It can be a niche, but at least make some small effort to make it a sustainable one?

A lot of it does seem pretty dead. 

In one year, I can count the number of new users who are still active on one hand, while the number that have left far exceeds this. I can see not just blindly welcoming anyone and everyone, but as the above poster has stated, it wouldn't hurt to be a bit more friendly and welcoming. I mean, eventually, there won't be anyone left to be 'frank and honest and edgy' with, at the current rate.

Though I've met some very nice people here for which I'm grateful, it is pretty stagnant, to the point of being something an echo chamber. I can predict  with canny accuracy who will reply to and 'like' this or that post, it's very insular.

I'd say the lack of new members is a problem, if the forum wants to go on; it's nice to meet some new furs, and have a bit of fresh air and change, as opposed to just seeing the numbers dwindle. I keep posting here and there mainly to cheer up this or that friend, but at times, it seems pretty barren, and I lose interest, and get pretty bored, and thus, like many, have moved on to other places that are more active/dynamic. It does fill a niche, I'd agree, though a pretty small one, at this point.

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Also daily reminder that forums are obsolete as far as social platforms go.

They're useful as entertainment for people bored at work or in class that can't pay attention to an active chatroom but that's like, the sole corner-case where Discord isn't simply better.

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I had to take a bit of time off which is why I haven't been on the forums or would idle in Discord, so I don't know much about the politics.

What I have come back to is a bit depressing. I think the "what the fuck ever" dour posts along with the other side of going to beat shit with an SJW stick just kind of killed conversation that could have a decent middle ground.

I'm also no fool to think there's some perfect resolution, because there isn't

1 minute ago, Zaraphayx said:

Also daily reminder that forums are obsolete as far as social platforms go.

They're useful as entertainment for people bored at work or in class that can't pay attention to an active chatroom but that's like, the sole corner-case where Discord isn't simply better.

The thing is even the Discord for this community is pretty dead. I'm not expecting a dramatic increase in posts because most people are flocking to little islands like twitter or tumblr to get their fixes now. I just wish there isn't so much disconnect in involvement. I really did enjoy meeting people on the forums.

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8 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

The thing is even the Discord for this community is pretty dead. I'm not expecting a dramatic increase in posts because most people are flocking to little islands like twitter or tumblr to get their fixes now. I just wish there isn't so much disconnect in involvement. I really did enjoy meeting people on the forums.

I was speaking generally in reference to Discord being better, the specifics of the Discord community insofar as this forum is concerned are lost on me; I've been estranged from the community for some time.

My impression of it before I left though was that the community was fragmented and to be honest that's simply because most of the people on this forum partitioned off into more insular groups of people who don't particularly like each other.

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I understand.

I just feel it's a shame. I haven't been on as an internet presence for a while. So I can see the why it fragmented as I wasn't involved much either. I think I just got fed up with the banality

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I'm also going to just throw this out there with the expectation that it will be taken the wrong way, but taking for granted that other people are going to just create and cultivate communities for you to jump right into and get your social needs met is naive as fuck.

No one knows how to have a conversation or be human anymore, they just want to show up, be a wallflower, parrot some trite paint-by-numbers conversational memetics to distract from their lack of personality and then endlessly ponder why they feel so emotionally desolate.

if you really desire a social nexus for members of this community and want to meet people then take it into your own hands and do it. I can speak with experience across multiple planes of existence that there is truth to the ancient aphorism: if you build it, they will come.

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1 hour ago, Imperial Impact said:

I don't even mind the edge for most parts, It's the laziness is what gets me. Because Some people (me as well) are too lazy the talk about anything.

I can sympathize with that. For me however, it's just mind numbingly boring most of the time. There's almost nothing interesting to talk about. Most of the threads on here that grab the most attention from others seems to consist of topics centered around self loathing, and never ending drama. The site is just consistently dead in general, and I don't blame anyone who doesn't even put forth the time to like or comment on something, because it's ultimately meaningless. 

1 hour ago, Zaraphayx said:

I'm also going to just throw this out there with the expectation that it will be taken the wrong way, but taking for granted that other people are going to just create and cultivate communities for you to jump right into and get your social needs met is naive as fuck.

No one knows how to have a conversation or be human anymore, they just want to show up, be a wallflower, parrot some trite paint-by-numbers conversational memetics to distract from their lack of personality and then endlessly ponder why they feel so emotionally desolate.

if you really desire a social nexus for members of this community and want to meet people then take it into your own hands and do it. I can speak with experience across multiple planes of existence that there is truth to the ancient aphorism: if you build it, they will come.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Pretty much the embodiment of what I've been thinking.

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3 hours ago, fennecbyte said:

I completely agree with you on this point, but most of the people who have tried to join are the sort of people we resent. The ones we want usually don't have anything we can laugh at them for and see our jokes as jokes.

Do you really want this sever to be filled with your murry purry furries that are currently all over FAF? The ones that will leave anyway once they notice what this forum is really about?

It's really a matter of quality over quantity and how many people find the site in the first place.

Fursonally i think an influx of murry purry yiffwit furries would be pawsome. The endless barrage of *huggles*, OWO and <3 would certainly brighten this desolate wasteland of dismissive arrogance up quite a bit. What i mean is, this forum needs Bronies, lots of Bronies. Because they'd be magical, and their exhausting attempts to bring friendship to the masses would stimulate merriment and much laughter. It's really the best thing for the forum.

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25 minutes ago, [null] said:

Fursonally i think an influx of murry purry yiffwit furries would be pawsome. The endless barrage of *huggles*, OWO and <3 would certainly brighten this desolate wasteland of dismissive arrogance up quite a bit. What i mean is, this forum needs Bronies, lots of Bronies. Because they'd be magical, and their exhausting attempts to bring friendship to the masses would stimulate merriment and much laughter. It's really the best thing for the forum.

:V

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guys there's no problem
casually sweep those hemorrhaging numbers of members under the rug

we don't target new people at all
It's not like oldFaF, the community that makes up Phoenix, had a history of singling out and hazing 'newfags'. 

we all get along and take each other seriously.
Never once have i seen a case of group A vs group B where both groups strawman each other and create tension that the mods all laugh at
and by all mods, i mean 1 or 2 because the rest don't do anything/aren't allowed too because there's an i in team somewhere

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4 hours ago, Zaraphayx said:

You can't expect an influx of new blood into your community sufficient to grow it to any noticeable degree while also discouraging new members from joining who don't fit your inconsistent and arbitrary parameters of what appropriate behavior is.

Also hazing new people off the forum for being basic bitch FUZZY :D master race is hilarious and all but don't invoke the old-FAF trial-by-fire meme to justify your hostility to newcomers who aren't accustomed to the forum culture.

Most of you would have left if you were hazed in your intro thread too because you're craven little herd-nerds who don't have the disposition for conflict that isn't one-sided.

I'm uh, just curious.
What do you mean by hazing? Can you give some examples?

I just, don't really see any real hazing.

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Lurk Moar is a thing. There's a reason people get told to do it.

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23 minutes ago, Eon said:

Lurk Moar is a thing. There's a reason people get told to do it.

0bfdc652b5bbf2351fb9be0264c7c76e.png.6e32821bfc49b1b600697be4ab1f2e67.png

Please take this man's advice.

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1 hour ago, Tsuujou said:

0bfdc652b5bbf2351fb9be0264c7c76e.png.6e32821bfc49b1b600697be4ab1f2e67.png

Please take this man's advice.

This man is a fucking legend.

 

3 hours ago, [null] said:

Words

You really are just here to be terrible, huh?

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7 minutes ago, fennecbyte said:

This man is a fucking legend.

He woke up to lead us into furry Eden and grant death to the unfaithful, yay \0/

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This thread really made me realize that this forum isn't for me. There is nothing wrong with it ofc, it's an inevitable change. I often wonder why I still stick around and I realize how much I cling on to the hope that this place will be just as FaF used to be. Well I'm glad nonetheless that despite how much shit happened over the years, much of us still hold on.

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I remember the old FAF was predominantly the same sort of site that Phoenix is now, but it had a huge userbase compared to here and it encompassed more mentalities than the dominant furry deprecating mindset that we seem to have settled on. It was driven by the successes and failure of Furaffinity and the vast bulk of its userbase were users from that site.

The murry purry sorts were relatively few in number and rarely posted compared to the majority of other users, but they were around. It was apparent that they never really enjoyed the site in the same way as the more numerous cynical and sarcastic minded users did however and when FAF burned and Phoenix rose, only the latter really made active effort to move across. These people mostly seem happy for the site to stay as it is, but then what is the point? How many times can you start new threads before you just repeat yourself?

The life blood of most forums is the franchise that they're attached to or follow. When you have a forum that is only loosely connected to general concept (that it regularly deprecates), what do you draw from? What is your means for attracting new users? As best I can tell, the new users who have found this site after the fact either googled across it or heard about it from a friend. But how many of them have actually stuck around and become active posting members? We even have long standing veterans of the old FAF who have completely dropped off the radar. 

From the beginning, this site was a chance to do better than FAF. But the prevailing attitude and approach of certain users who feel they own it has denied that opportunity. I remember discussions about the future of the community when old FAF started to sink, I remember talk of a new and better site. Instead, we got a site that was swiftly appropriated by a core group of users who instantly turned it into the same damn thing that had just died.

13 hours ago, Vae said:

We're not selling a product. You're either here because you like the audience and the environment, or you aren't, because you don't.
No one's forcing anyone to stick around or do jack shit.
And I think that's the way it should be.

This is the attitude of a Phoenix mod, which will reflect on how the site is run in the eyes of new users. We don't care and if you don't like it then fuck off.

12 hours ago, DrGravitas said:

The biggest improvement I would like to see is the generation of new content. New threads, new ideas, new games, etc. Content is first and foremost what will attract more people and it is content that will get people to stick around long enough to open up and contribute. We need to be attractive to the content makers and to do that, they need a reason to be here. Those reasons will be variable and only the tolerance of a variety of personal approachs will produce the diversity we need to sustain the site as an entry-point to the community. To let it be dominated by one mindset or even just strongly inhospitable to others will inevitably be to the detriment of the entire community.

This is the attitude of pretty much every other forum I've been to that has managed to stay alive. Hey there, welcome. We're all about this. Don't worry too much about X or Y, just enjoy A and B and feel free to C. Everything else you'll get the hang of over time. Keep the rules in mind and you'll do fine.

Things like this are easy, it's just the middle ground between fluffy hugbox and the kind of people who jump at any chance to ridicule someone into oblivion for a slight misstep.

I'm rambling. Sorry. I'm done.

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The Internet turns everyone into a sociopath.

There's no tone of voice, there's no body language or facial expression to go on, and that often makes it difficult to read the intentions behind a post. Some people exaggerate to get around this problem, but that makes them seem larger than life.

What I'm getting at here is, what any one person perceives of the personality of the clientele of a forum almost certainly isn't very accurate.

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it's alllliiiiiiiiiiiiiiivvvvvveeee

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1 hour ago, FlynnCoyote said:

The life blood of most forums is the franchise that they're attached to or follow. When you have a forum that is only loosely connected to general concept (that it regularly deprecates), what do you draw from? What is your means for attracting new users? As best I can tell, the new users who have found this site after the fact either googled across it or heard about it from a friend. But how many of them have actually stuck around and become active posting members? We even have long standing veterans of the old FAF who have completely dropped off the radar. 

We could make the forum all about Free Allegiance ;3333

 

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**

CNET Editor’s Choice Award

"The easily grasped mechanics, thrilling human-vs.-human combat, and easy-to-learn yet hard-to-master strategy make for an amazing combination... For those who crave a new, exiting, massively multiplayer experience, Allegiance reaches addiction-level status."

**

https://www.freeallegiance.org/

 

Alright, I'm done plugging for today.

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4 hours ago, fennecbyte said:

You really are just here to be terrible, huh?

Yes, it's my sole reason for existing. If you don't like it i suggest you make a positive effort to attract a different crowd, because i'm the only newfag that's stuck around in recent memory. :P

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1 hour ago, [null] said:

Yes, it's my sole reason for existing. If you don't like it i suggest you make a positive effort to attract a different crowd, because i'm the only newfag that's stuck around in recent memory. :P

Why would I want to get rid of someone so perfect(ly terrible)?

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1 hour ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

We could make the forum all about Free Allegiance ;3333

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