Aeon

The forums and the overall mood of the community.

296 posts in this topic

 

42 minutes ago, Umbra.Exe said:

Guys, I think we're done with line of conversation by now, no? I feel like we're going in circles here.

The main thing I got from this (repeatedly) is that we as mods should work to distribute the announcements more evenly, so it doesn't look like one person's doing it all. We all know it isn't just one person taking care of everything, but yeah, I can see that it looks that way sometimes.

I dunno, that seems pretty doable to me, I think.

Anything else I missed?

Advertising and community participation events

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41 minutes ago, Umbra.Exe said:

Guys, I think we're done with line of conversation by now, no? I feel like we're going in circles here.

The main thing I got from this (repeatedly) is that we as mods should work to distribute the announcements more evenly, so it doesn't look like one person's doing it all. We all know it isn't just one person taking care of everything, but yeah, I can see that it looks that way sometimes.

I dunno, that seems pretty doable to me, I think.

Anything else I missed?

Hmmm...maybe a thread dedicated to what we're each going to do, individually, to make the site more friendly, and welcoming, such as to attract new members? This way, those who want can put forth their idea on making positive change, without so much blaming others.

For my part, I like to greet new members, and see if we have any points of interest, and ask about those, to make them feel more included in the overall conversation. It's nice to feel that somebody has taken an interest in what you have to say, I find. And then, to follow up on this in other threads, and spread likes as I see likable things. 

Clearly, it's a two way street, and I can't control what new members will ultimately do, but I can try to be polite, and form some common bonds, where possible.

That's about all I have, is to look at what we each might do, for those who want to.

 

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1 hour ago, DrGravitas said:

Advertising and community participation events

I meant in regards to what Kea's been trying to say (just making sure I understood him completely), but yes- I have been wondering how to address those too.

I'm not very well-versed in how advertising works unfortunately, at least not the formal, paid-advertisement sort of thing.
As I mentioned, I think the best thing for us right now is simply word of mouth (or uh, text). Anyone can tell their friends about this place, or post a journal for their watchers to see on other sites.

I think we need to work a little on how the community handles new users before we worry about putting up ads, though. All the advertising in the world probably won't help if we keep driving new folks away.
And as dumb as this might sound, I think we might need to be a little more active ourselves in order to keep new people here. (So yeah- we need more activity if we want more activity. Told you it might sound dumb, just hear me out.)  If new people come in and see this place isn't all that active, chances are they won't stick around. You ever seen Weasyl's forums? That place isn't terribly active- and most people just turn around and leave instead of trying to add some life there. Sucks, but that's how it goes, I guess. I see it happen there, as well as in Discord chats, IRC, etc. It's not hard to imagine the same thing happening here as well.

As for community events, I've been mulling over ideas for how that might work, and I think Lemon's got a few ideas of her own.
I'm still kind of getting my thoughts organized, though, and I imagine Lemon might be doing the same. A little patience would be appreciated, but we are trying to come up with things! (As I've said, I really love the idea of community contests, myself.)
 

1 hour ago, Fossa said:

Hmmm...maybe a thread dedicated to what we're each going to do, individually, to make the site more friendly, and welcoming, such as to attract new members? This way, those who want can put forth their idea on making positive change, without so much blaming others.

For my part, I like to greet new members, and see if we have any points of interest, and ask about those, to make them feel more included in the overall conversation. It's nice to feel that somebody has taken an interest in what you have to say, I find. And then, to follow up on this in other threads, and spread likes as I see likable things. 

Clearly, it's a two way street, and I can't control what new members will ultimately do, but I can try to be polite, and form some common bonds, where possible.

That's about all I have, is to look at what we each might do, for those who want to.

I think making a more... Positively-framed(?) thread might be a good idea. It could be about what we (both mods and users) can do to improve the place, instead of what we're doing wrong. (I mean that's important too, of course. I'm just suggesting an alternative approach.) I figure it might help to look at the positives and what we can improve on. When we word things at each other negatively, people respond negatively, and it really doesn't get us very far.

Being friendly and welcoming in intro threads is good! I think the phrase "If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all" applies here, at least for the newbie threads. I think it's really good that you try and start conversations with 'em, as well! I know I've been guilty of just going "Hey, welcome" but not really engaging in conversation. I think that's a thing I should work on, personally.

So yeah, I think those are all my thoughts for now- I should probably stop before I end up writing a book, anyway. :v

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Well I throw my hands up, on that front. Seriously, what the fuck guys.

Feel like I have to put kids in their respective corners trying to get each other's side but they're busy calling each other a meanie poo poo head.

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1 minute ago, Umbra.Exe said:

I think making a more... Positively-framed(?) thread might be a good idea. It could be about what we (both mods and users) can do to improve the place, instead of what we're doing wrong. 

PPFFFFFFFFFFT!!!! 

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1 hour ago, Umbra.Exe said:

Yes, I do realize what audience I'm talking to. :V
It's just a suggestion.

The problem is that there were many other times when we could've done this and was brushed off because of internal drama or decisions by the mods(I'm not saying they're bad, as it did filter out some 'undesirables')

I also think that the idea for competitions and events were brought up in a SOTU some time ago, but was never actually acted upon. My memory of it is vague, so don't quote me on that. Or any of it, really.

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1 hour ago, QT Melon said:

Well I throw my hands up, on that front. Seriously, what the fuck guys.

Feel like I have to put kids in their respective corners trying to get each other's side but they're busy calling each other a meanie poo poo head.

as Idola would say: cleansing fire tends to work, or letting the ship sink.

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1 hour ago, Deskai said:

as Idola would say: cleansing fire tends to work, or letting the ship sink.

Cleansing fire is more fun, lets go with that.

IG5EHellhoundFlameTank.jpg

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10 hours ago, Umbra.Exe said:


I'm not very well-versed in how advertising works unfortunately, at least not the formal, paid-advertisement sort of thing.
As I mentioned, I think the best thing for us right now is simply word of mouth (or uh, text). Anyone can tell their friends about this place, or post a journal for their watchers to see on other sites.

I think we need to work a little on how the community handles new users before we worry about putting up ads, though. All the advertising in the world probably won't help if we keep driving new folks away.

I agree, we need to work towards improving how we are we treat new folks. We can't win them all but we can be doing better.

That said, I don't feel I need permission to buy ads myself, either. So I'll wait a few months, but if I don't feel we've progressed towards these goals, I'm going to start a ad-banner contest myself.

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2 hours ago, DrGravitas said:

I don't feel I need permission to buy ads myself, either. So I'll wait a few months, but if I don't feel we've progressed towards these goals, I'm going to start a ad-banner contest myself.

Pretty sure that's either kind of illegal or super legally iffy if you don't own / haven't been given permission by the company in question.
And is directly against most ad policy TOSes, if it's not.
Besides, Lemon is our graphic designer. Let her do her job.


On the matter of people being too hostile in intro threads:
I'm just gonna repeat this, because people seem to forget that we're not omniscient either.
If you see someone being needlessly confrontational in intro threads,
REPORT IT.
That way, you're going to insure we see it and deliberate on whether or not we need to hide posts, give a person points, warn the thread in question to chill, etc.

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2 minutes ago, Vae said:

Pretty sure that's either kind of illegal or super legally iffy if you don't own / haven't been given permission by the company in question.
And is directly against most ad policy TOSes, if it's not.
Besides, Lemon is our graphic designer. Let her do her job.
 

Lemon's the one who brought the idea of advertising up in the first place. If I need to seek Carenath's permission first then I hope I can count on the mods support. But, if I'm going to be contributing money towards this, then I'm going to have a say in it and I am absolutely certain that it needs to be community driven. Lemon can compile it into a nice little banner or whatever, but this is the perfect sort of thing for a community event so I want there to at least be a slogan contest.

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5 minutes ago, DrGravitas said:

Lemon's the one who brought the idea of advertising up in the first place. If I need to seek Carenath's permission first then I hope I can count on the mods support. But, if I'm going to be contributing money towards this, then I'm going to have a say in it and I am absolutely certain that it needs to be community driven. Lemon can compile it into a nice little banner or whatever, but this is the perfect sort of thing for a community event so I want there to at least be a slogan contest.

I'm saying that if we do advertisements, it would be our call. Also that Lemon should work on them, because... you know... she's the fucking graphic designer of the site.

No one asked you to put down money for anything. This was not a task you were assigned to do out of pocket.
It's something you stepped forward with "LET ME THROW MY MONEY AT IT BECAUSE I WANT TO" without anyone else's input, much less those of staff.

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12 minutes ago, DrGravitas said:

if I'm going to be contributing money towards this, then I'm going to have a say in it

You do know how fucking awful of a person you sound like by saying that, right?

Just because you lost the mod elections and have money laying around doesn't mean you should try to force the current mods to bend to your will.
Nobody even asked for your money in the first place; giving money for this is all your decision.

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7 minutes ago, fennecbyte said:

You do know how fucking awful of a person you sound like by saying that, right?

Just because you lost the mod elections and have money laying around doesn't mean you should try to force the current mods to follow you.
Nobody even asked for your money in the first place, giving money for this is all your decision.

I don't care about the mod elections, I don't care whether the mods want to follow me on this. I care about this website. The mods put forth this idea and I'm trying to help make it happen in a way that I think best helps this website. If they don't want to meet my half way, then that's there business. When I say "if I'm going to contribute money" I mean that literally as "this is the way I want to see it happen if I'm going help" If they want to make ads without me and not do a community contest, that's fine too. But frankly I think that's a poor decision.

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1 minute ago, Snagged said:

Money is like 90% of how politics (at least in US) work

This is a niche furry forum, not a country.

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1 minute ago, fennecbyte said:

This is a niche furry forum, not a country.

But it does go to tell that wherever there is politics of any manner involved, there can also be money involved

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3 minutes ago, DrGravitas said:

When I say "if I'm going to contribute money" I mean that literally as "this is the way I want to see it happen if I'm going help"

You mean one thing, but it comes off as "Do what I say or else you're not getting my money." It paints you as a sleazy asshole.

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I'm just gonna buy a ton of banner ads with "Join Phoenixed; Kiss My Dick" and fuck you because it's my money and I need it now.

Try and stop me, chimps.

Also I can get a billboard for like $300 a week not being poor owns.

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12 minutes ago, Vae said:

I'm saying that if we do advertisements, it would be our call. Also that Lemon should work on them, because... you know... she's the fucking graphic designer of the site.

No one asked you to put down money for anything. This was not a task you were assigned to do out of pocket.
It's something you stepped forward with "LET ME THROW MY MONEY AT IT BECAUSE I WANT TO" without anyone else's input, much less those of staff.

This is all of our website, not just the mods. That is the primary take away of this thread, is it not? We all need to make an effort. We all need to contribute content, we all need to make decisions. It's not the mods faults, its not the people's faults, it's all of us. Treating this as a "Staff-only decision" is exactly the opposite of the conclusion we need to reach here.

I'll back down on the whole "few months" ultimatum, but I saying here and now that we absolutely need to do something. This is not just a staff decision here, this needs to be a community decision.

4 minutes ago, fennecbyte said:

You mean one thing, but it comes off as "Do what I say or else you're not getting my money." It paints you as a sleazy asshole.

I appreciate you pointing this out and agree.

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2 minutes ago, DrGravitas said:

This is all of our website, not just the mods.

Uh no, this is Carenath's site and it's hosted on Nrr's server.

I thought you had a real job how did you miss the 101 class on digital property rights???

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Just now, Zaraphayx said:

it's hosted on Nrr's server.

Isn't just the corvidae.org domain owned by Nrr, with the phoenix subdomain pointing to Carenath's machine?

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3 minutes ago, fennecbyte said:

Isn't just the corvidae.org domain owned by Nrr, with the phoenix subdomain pointing to Carenath's machine?

That's probably more correct than what I said. Edit: I checked you're right.

The point i was trying to make in between brainstorming ideas about how to become popufur doing puzzles of dragon porn was that no one has any right to anything on the site except those two people and those who they empower to act on their behalf.

Namely the staff.

Everyone else is a digital serf who needs to shut up and get back to the data mines.

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4 hours ago, DrGravitas said:

That said, I don't feel I need permission to buy ads myself, either. So I'll wait a few months, but if I don't feel we've progressed towards these goals, I'm going to start a ad-banner contest myself.

Grav, I know you mean well by this, but that seems a little overreaching/stepping on some toes there.
We have no problem with users advertising the forums as, well users... But people generally assume advertisements are taken out by the owners/staff of the site, and IMO it feels kinda weird/iffy for someone else to do it.

I'm also getting a vibe of "I'm going to do it whether you like it or not" here, which... Isn't really helping.
 

1 hour ago, DrGravitas said:

But, if I'm going to be contributing money towards this, then I'm going to have a say in it and I am absolutely certain that it needs to be community driven. 

...As far as I know none of us agreed to accept money from anyone yet? I do think it was mentioned that we might accept user donations, but please don't jump the gun here. I know we haven't exactly been the fastest at this, but some patience would be appreciated.

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I'm new here, so I'll give you my opinion. First, I have no idea what this forum is about. Second, it looks like someone downloaded IP.Board and left it at the defaults. If the forum is about furry stuff, it's got nothing to show me that it is. Third, it's cluttered with a bazillion areas to visit, far more than there are active members. A hundred different subcategories that have no meaning to me because there's nothing to draw meaning from. If this forum were compared to something it would be compared to a hospital. All white on white and everyone walking around quietly so not to hurt patients.

Some art, some banners, heck something.. A message about what this place is about? Can't find any information that isn't tucked or buried under 15 different pin threads scattered about the entire place. Is this some kind of morgue? A retirement home for old dried up furry farts? Hard to tell.

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17 minutes ago, Pleasure said:

Some art, some banners, heck something.. A message about what this place is about? Can't find any information that isn't tucked or buried under 15 different pin threads scattered about the entire place. Is this some kind of morgue for old dried up furry farts? Because it feels like one.

Yes. But let's not say 'morgue'. They're very much alive, and some are pretty busy. 

This is what I (still) see:

.aprf2017banner.jpg.bae6cbebaffa7a715a782badbf20d9c2.jpg.614979fc2056c0bb058ae5bbf7131653.jpg

This cruel joke needs to stop. I can't even open this place up in public lmao

There's also a whole sub-forum dedicated to talk about fandom stuff, but isn't used as much as the general discussion because of how secluded this site is from the rest of the fandom.

 

 

 

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So basically we sit around reminiscing about days long gone.. Berating our grandkids for having *3* species instead of 1, like Furry-Jesus intended?

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12 minutes ago, Pleasure said:

I'm new here, so I'll give you my opinion. First, I have no idea what this forum is about. Second, it looks like someone downloaded IP.Board and left it at the defaults. If the forum is about furry stuff, it's got nothing to show me that it is. Third, it's cluttered with a bazillion areas to visit, far more than there are active members. A hundred different subcategories that have no meaning to me because there's nothing to draw meaning from. If this forum were compared to something it would be compared to a hospital. All white on white and everyone walking around quietly so not to hurt patients.

Some art, some banners, heck something.. A message about what this place is about? Can't find any information that isn't tucked or buried under 15 different pin threads scattered about the entire place. Is this some kind of morgue? A retirement home for old dried up furry farts? Hard to tell.

I've been telling the staff this for ages lmao

I pushed for there to be an "About" and "FAQ" for newcomers, and we agreed to at least some of it and I even helped gather some material; but none of the mods ever bothered to materialize anything. 

Also, welcome to here!! Don't worry about this thread, we're just having our period. :v

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The forum is an offshoot community from an older furry board, that left.
That's why we don't really have a central goal or focus.
Phoenixed has largely existed like a clubhouse, that moved to a newer, cleaner venue, with an open door.

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Phoenxied: A Community for People That Want To Bone Animal People But Not As Much As Other Furries

We're like, alt-furry.

I'm Milo.

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1 minute ago, Vae said:

The forum is an offshoot community from an older furry board, that left.
That's why we don't really have a central goal or focus.
Phoenixed has largely existed like a clubhouse, that moved to a newer, cleaner venue, with an open door.

I get you. I mean, I don't understand it that much, but I get you. I've done forums, too. Moderated big indie games in the past. I understand community and stuff. Going for more of a basement bar with slow whirling fans that just barely keep from smacking you in the face, hazy with smoke and full of grumpy has-been heroes. If that's the vibe you're going for, then forget new people. Ain't happenin' as I see it. Occasional wanderer every now and again, tastes the booze, drops a 20 on the counter and leaves. At least it keeps the lights on, eh?

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12 minutes ago, Pleasure said:

I'm new here, so I'll give you my opinion. First, I have no idea what this forum is about. Second, it looks like someone downloaded IP.Board and left it at the defaults. If the forum is about furry stuff, it's got nothing to show me that it is. Third, it's cluttered with a bazillion areas to visit, far more than there are active members. A hundred different subcategories that have no meaning to me because there's nothing to draw meaning from. If this forum were compared to something it would be compared to a hospital. All white on white and everyone walking around quietly so not to hurt patients.

Some art, some banners, heck something.. A message about what this place is about? Can't find any information that isn't tucked or buried under 15 different pin threads scattered about the entire place. Is this some kind of morgue? A retirement home for old dried up furry farts? Hard to tell.

Long story short, this place was started by the people who used to be on Furaffinity Forums, til we decided to leave and make our own forum for... reasons.

I think you have a point about not really describing what this place is is/what the subforums are. A lot of the titles are a little vague/inside joke-ish I guess. (Especially the cars subforum... Even I don't understand that one.) I also agree that stuff like the rules should be more easily found by new folks.

As for why this site doesn't scream "FURRY", I guess the community here's a bit... "Furry-lite", so to speak. It's a little less focused on furry stuff specifically, and a bit more welcoming to non-furries as well. We do have a section relating to the fandom specifically though, as well as fursuiting and convention subforums.
 

1 minute ago, Silo said:

This is what I (still) see:

.aprf2017banner.jpg.bae6cbebaffa7a715a782badbf20d9c2.jpg.614979fc2056c0bb058ae5bbf7131653.jpg

This cruel joke needs to stop. I can't even open this place up in public lmao

That shouldn't be happening. 
Try going to the bottom of the page and see if you can change your theme?
LW3JO5X.png

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6 minutes ago, Vae said:

The forum is an offshoot community from an older furry board, that left.
That's why we don't really have a central goal or focus.
Phoenixed has largely existed like a clubhouse, that moved to a newer, cleaner venue, with an open door.

If anyone who doesn't know wants some specifics: http://www.flayrah.com/6194/fur-affinity-forum-staff-abandon-their-posts-future-forum-uncertain

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33 minutes ago, Umbra.Exe said:

Grav, I know you mean well by this, but that seems a little overreaching/stepping on some toes there.
We have no problem with users advertising the forums as, well users... But people generally assume advertisements are taken out by the owners/staff of the site, and IMO it feels kinda weird/iffy for someone else to do it.

I'm also getting a vibe of "I'm going to do it whether you like it or not" here, which... Isn't really helping.
 

...As far as I know none of us agreed to accept money from anyone yet? I do think it was mentioned that we might accept user donations, but please don't jump the gun here. I know we haven't exactly been the fastest at this, but some patience would be appreciated.

I know I can be pushy some times and I appreciate your even temper in addressing it here.

That said, nothing motivates like a ticking clock! 8D I really feel that the staff would do well to publish a timeline of milestones for whatever goals they ultimately choose to purse. I would recommend involving the rest of this community as best they can. If you guys want to really see change, I fully believe that's the only way it's going to happen.

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1 minute ago, Zaraphayx said:

@Umbra.Exe when am I getting a Sylveon theme for the forums you're all failing me as mind-puppets.

Themes are Lemon's thing, not mine.
Are we artists all the same to you? :c

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8 minutes ago, Zaraphayx said:

@Umbra.Exe when am I getting a Sylveon theme for the forums you're all failing me as mind-puppets.

YES, this needs to be the number one priority to get the forums back on track (whatever track that is).

Here's some ideas gleaned from elsewhere:

17f646d403bbb61581bff3c16a9ec2b9.png

e8e4e66cc4a38e7d61f6fc62dd3a6df8.png

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Yeah we meant to make a faq, but we were having a shit time coming up with things for it. We even had a banner for it

11 minutes ago, Pleasure said:

I'm new here, so I'll give you my opinion. First, I have no idea what this forum is about. Second, it looks like someone downloaded IP.Board and left it at the defaults. If the forum is about furry stuff, it's got nothing to show me that it is. Third, it's cluttered with a bazillion areas to visit, far more than there are active members. A hundred different subcategories that have no meaning to me because there's nothing to draw meaning from. If this forum were compared to something it would be compared to a hospital. All white on white and everyone walking around quietly so not to hurt patients.

Some art, some banners, heck something.. A message about what this place is about? Can't find any information that isn't tucked or buried under 15 different pin threads scattered about the entire place. Is this some kind of morgue? A retirement home for old dried up furry farts? Hard to tell.

A lot of the subforums were user suggested, because people wanted things like a shitposting subforum or an RP subforum and so forth

As far as the way the forum looks, trust me, it used to look a little more drab than it does now. But like others have said, the forums aren't really advertised as being very furry-centric because the users view it as a common interest we have. But we're people first and foremost

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Looking at it, I think the place could stand a small bit of consolidation, yeah.

  • Rants and Raves could be an offshoot of Watercooler much like Blackhole is for Forum Games etc. It's still sort of "general" talk to be frank.
  • Top Dead Centre could be outright removed. It doesn't even have more than a page of threads most of which haven't been active since 2016. It isn't really too relevant to a place that is ultimately a furry themed forum.
  • Lynx Please could be dropped or moved somewhere if we really need to keep it around.
  • I feel like Paper Mill can be put under the Den or just tossed altogether and folks can just make threads of furry media in The Den since thats' the "all things fandom" section.
  • Art Exchange could be merged with Black Market since it's essentially the same thing, one section is just for free work.
  • And maybe a bit of a stretch, but I'd put Tube and Frags together as well.

Those are just some suggestions off the top of my head. As for furry theming of the place, personally, I'm for it, but I don't think we need to completely overhaul the look. I prefer a cleaner web page. I'm really not feeling the idea of plastering garish furry stuff all over the place. A header and footer. Maybe a secondary Phoenix/furry logo of sorts to replace the speech bubbles next to each section (if that's possible).

That's my half cent anyway...

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Mmm... I'd have to disagree with some of the forum moving around ideas.

Dead Centre should just be subforumed under Watercooler as well as Lynx

Paper Mill can be left alone imo, just helps the "furry open" theme.

 

But I'm worried about combining Black Market and Art Exchange as one since already people wanting free stuff far dominates the few that can get paid work. Maybe tweaking rules on BM might help to generate traffic. It was mostly intended to get rid of spam and constant bumping but maybe more levity on the times may help.

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