"i spit on your grave" remakes and obnoxiousness

[Tyranno]

okay, this has been gradually annoying me further.

first of all, in the late sixties, night of living dead was made, and this depiction of violence onscreen made people see what else they could get away with, like depicting rape (which the movies i'm ranting about were missed by several years).

so, depicting rape in a movie nowadays, forty-five years after their first depiction is nothing special, and thus movies invented solely to depict rape are not "special", meaning remakes of this and last house on the left (which itself has two remakes, more or less) removing any justification to remake them to begin with.

so going back a while, even the original i spit on your grave was a bearer of obvious problems, even the tagline "this woman has killed [number] men, but no jury would convict her" - this is obvious bs. someone who went back and murdered people who did some wrong weeks or months ago is clearly guilty of pre-meditated murder. even if she killed them in self-defense, some juries would question how she needed to kill a group she overpowered all by herself, or how she would've know they intended to rape her, but besides noting the movie's mindset was very goofy from the time it started.

but the issue is with these clearly pointless remakes and how they manage to be even more ridiculous than you'd expect 

in the 80's, there wasn't as much political correctness so portraying a retard as an evil person was accepted, the remake changes this with ridiculous results.

in the remake, the retard member of the group is literally forced to have sex with the female victim who gets treated as a victim - the others would've slit her throat otherwise -and is shown to be absolutely devastated afterwards. somehow, being forced with have sex with doesn't seem to make him a rape victim since the movie reverts to following its predecessor and she murders him along with the guys who are actual rapists.

it should be noted, the director, even in the syfy movies he made, did include much more character depth and such than you'd normally find in a modern movie, so that he intended to portraying a rape victim (woman, not retard) as becoming a villain. i wasn't convinced, but it was possible 

note: despite the first director being a massive feminist, he knew that to get the audience to empathise with someone who commits horrific murders. the remake? near everything happens to the protagonist offscreen.

then there's the second movie in the series, which iirc shares a director with the remake, isn't so much a problem  - the rape victim from this movie is't unsympathetic, except for a bit when she reports her rape but doesn't even her mention her friend who was murdered trying to protect her.

i'd even ignored that a female leader of a human trafficking ring (the franchise's one female villain) gets to live and get off scott-free, until now, but-

i recently the promotions for the third movie airing on tv

firstly, the detestable protagonist from the remake is back, still going on about the group she killed deserved it (even the retard who was forced to have sex with her it seems)

second, there's a cop saying about how it has to proved that perpetrators are guilty of rape before being punished, and

brace yourselves

i'm not making this up

the cop has Hitler's hair

HITLER'S

HAIR

what a brilliant, mature statement about those who argue people accused of rape aren't automatically guilty.

and yes, this retroactively makes it much more likely for the remake's attitude the man forced to have to sex with was commiting rape by being forced to have sex was exactly as it appears on the surface.

can't wait until i spit on your grave movie 4, where i'd assume they have the protaginist rape a man, then kidnap and torture him for months for being raped.

[Jtrekkie]

Doncha know guys can't be raped? That's a thing.

Anyway, the premise sounds a little dodgy, but in general movies that push narratives at the expense of telling stories can get ridiculous. I don't think I'll be watching these.

[Gator]

there's one more remake i'm not gonna touch with a ten foot pole

[MalletFace]

If I use the spoiler tag was used correctly, the section I am talking about will be hidden. If it is not or you are tempted to read it, please avoid my post if you are a survivor of sexual assault of any kind and wish to avoid seeing anything that may trigger a negative response in you emotionally or physically. 

I attempted to remove anything explicitly sexual aside from the word rape, but the hidden content might be uncomfortable anyway. My apologies if it needs to be removed.

Edit: Well I fucked it up and I ain't changing it because what I meant to be hidden is hidden. But other things are too, so oh well.

On 6/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, Tyranno said:

...the retard member...

I very much enjoy you attempting to defend him while using a slur to describe him. His name is Matthew.

On 6/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, Tyranno said:

...of the group is literally forced to have sex with the female victim who gets treated as a victim...

 

Which one of them was being held down by three grown adults? 

Context is important to understanding anything.

On 6/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, Tyranno said:

...the others would've slit her throat otherwise...

 

Okay. But they grabbed her explicitly so Matthew could rape her.

Context is important to understanding anything.

On 6/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, Tyranno said:

and is shown to be absolutely devastated afterwards

I have an uncle that killed two of his friends while he was drunk and he is absolutely devastated to this day. Doesn't mean he didn't kill them.

On 6/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, Tyranno said:

somehow, being forced with have sex with doesn't seem to make him a rape victim

 

I'm not sure if I can remember if it was Matthew or Jennifer that was crying. I'm not sure if I can remember if it was Matthew or Jennifer that was being held down by three adults. I'm not sure if I can remember if it was Matthew or Jennifer that had been abducted. I'm not sure if it was Matthew or Jennifer that was fantasizing the other some time before.

I have some clue, but you insisting Matthew was raped makes me unsure. Matthew must have been the one being held down while Jennifer's friends cajoled her until she raped him.

Context is important to understanding anything.

On 6/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, Tyranno said:

it should be noted, the director, even in the syfy movies he made, did include much more character depth and such than you'd normally find in a modern movie, so that he intended to portraying a rape victim (woman, not retard) as becoming a villain. i wasn't convinced, but it was possible 

I'm trying to remember any level of character depth in Mongolian Death Worm, Ice Twisters, or Sasquatch Mountain. My difficulty might seem to be in that they are fucking SyFy originals.

On 6/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, Tyranno said:

note: despite the first director being a massive feminist, he knew that to get the audience to empathise with someone who commits horrific murders. the remake? near everything happens to the protagonist offscreen.

Offscreen? Are you talking about Jennifer? I'm not quite sure you know what offscreen means. I'm not going to even try to find a video of it, let alone show it here, but dude...

I will give you the benefit of the doubt, though, because most regions had whole chunks of all of those films cut because of how awful what happened onscreen was.

On 6/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, Tyranno said:

the cop has Hitler's hair

HITLER'S

HAIR

First, barely.

Secondly, that's how Gabriel Hogan has his hair much of the time.

I guess it is unfortunate for him, but it isn't quite a statement.

Apparently one of Santa's stable hands are being compared to Hitler in this Lifetime Christmas movie...

Context is important to understanding anything.

And he is one of two detectives, not a cop.

On 6/9/2017 at 2:07 PM, Tyranno said:

second, there's a cop saying about how it has to proved that perpetrators are guilty of rape before being punished

what a brilliant, mature statement about those who argue people accused of rape aren't automatically guilty

 

You are supposed to remember her crying, her screaming, her begging, her sweating her wailing, her fighting, her gasping, her tensing, her bleeding. You are supposed to remember all of her pain, agony, and sadness. You are supposed to remember her anger.

You are supposed to see that those men had raped those women. You are supposed to share in the emotions and sensations they felt, too.

And you are supposed to know, as a member of the audience, that he is wrong and doing more harm than good. You aren't supposed to sympathize with him because you know better than he does.

That is a use of dramatic irony. It is a tool used in storytelling to do that kind of thing, if you weren't aware.

The guy that directed the movie also did that because he tried to help a girl that had been raped by taking her to the police, but they ended up fucking it up and nothing ever happened to the guy that did it. He's attempting to reflect reality here by showing that how we deal with rape as a society sucks. 

Context is so damn important to understanding any-fucking-thing.

You didn't deliver an ounce of it, let alone the ton that this kind of issue deserves.

They are shit movies; though, for many reasons other than the ones you presented. I'm pretty sure the original is on Wikipedia's list of worst movies ever. I wouldn't have even put the effort into talking about those shit movies if it weren't for the issues you were pushing being anathema to me as a person.

 

[Tyranno]

That argument... just... i don't even...

Matthew was all but dragged in, and very certainly forced to have sex with her, you know the "very blatantly didn't want to" and the fact that if he didn't, she would be killed and there's something else i'm forgetting.

"didn't want to" very much means "did not consent", by the way - if you're going to go over how  important these issues are, you should know that. By your logic, people given date-rape drugs aren't subject to violence, so they aren't rape victims.

If it's all relative, then I can use your logic too - sex slavery exists in the film canon, Jenni .... Mary-Sue was not made a sex slave, so since other rape victims had it worse. See how goofy your argument is?

If they "wanted [Matthew] to rape her," why did they, I don't know, rape her? If he was so "willing", why did they need to threaten to kill her before he did it?

Also, these are stereotypical rednecks; matthew's brother made the move on Mary-Sue at first, his friends teased him over her kissing matthew; he very much intended to humiliate both of them, because, this is a steroeotpyical and drunk redneck who's retarded brother just "bested" him in his eyes.

"You are supposed to remember her crying, her screaming, her begging, her sweating her wailing, her fighting, her gasping, her tensing, her bleeding. You are supposed to remember all of her pain, agony, and sadness. You are supposed to remember her anger."

Know what I remember? The sheriff about to rape her (what do you know - someone besides matthew; guess it wasn't "for him" after all), the screen cutting to black, and then Jennifer stumbling away after having been brutalized and raped offscreen.

Don't remember depth in Sasquatch Mountain? Must've missed the head of the criminal gang saving the sheriff after the sheriff gave him a warning hot, then had a heat attack.

Funny, you don't mention Wyvern - in which the protagonist feels responsible for his brother's death, and frequently stops the others from putting their lives in danger, ultimately is only being "brave" and risking his own life because of cowardice - he's scared of causing more deaths by his own action (or inaction).

Yes, that is "more depth than most movies". In the average wide theatrical release, the protagonist's main character trait is looking like an actor/actress that he/she is played by. The love interest - who many of these try to portray as being the second most important character is capable of being replaced; instead of the protagonist trying to get a guy/girl, trying to get a sport medal or limited edition action figure.