Sidewalk Surfboard Posted October 1, 2015 Author Share Posted October 1, 2015 Let's get back to the topic. Ok.Thankfully, my mom does not attend the college that got shot up. Which was such a huge relief to find out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skylar Husky Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) The problem is not as simple as making gun ownership illegal.You need to think about the logic of that for one moment. People who are willing to massacre 10, 20 or 30 people in their midst and use a gun to do so are not going to be deterred by the fact that purchasing said gun is now a crime. All that is actually achieved by making gun ownership illegal is that honest, law-abiding people who like to shoot guns, be it for sport, hunting, target practice, trick shooting, or heaven forbid, self defense, are no longer able to do so. The sale of firearms that are illegal currently goes on. All controlling the sale of firearms will do is make the black market of illegal firearm sale more of a problem to deal with and the criminals and individuals who do unspeakable things will go to these black market contacts to get their firearms.The real issue at hand is what the heck is going on in a person's mind that they feel trapped and justified in taking the lives of innocents around them. That is the problem that needs solution. And until these problems are addressed wholly and honestly, the world is not safe for people who do not want to be victims of this crap. I am for having concealed carry licensing and carrying a firearm for the simple fact, if me or my family is put into danger by such a deranged bastard, I can pull the trigger and end their killing spree and not have to see someone I love get buried in a black box. Edited October 1, 2015 by Skylar Husky 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) The problem has never been "guns aren't illegal". The problem is "guns are too easy to obtain and there's almost no regulation in America for them". The minute "gun control" is brought up, people fly off the handle and assume that everyone wants to remove all weaponry from the US and "violate the second amendment" and the outburst is enough to keep the gun control laws, or lack thereof, right where they are and nothing changes.This is the issue. Edited October 2, 2015 by Kaizy 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irreverent Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It will be illuminating to find out what chemical cocktail the shooter was on. Polytechnic, Taber, Columbine, Sandy Hook, the list is endless and the link between pharmacopoeia and school shootings is no longer just anecdotal. Its easier to blame guns and so-called gun culture than to deal with the tsunami of mental illnesses ravaging North America. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayattar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Are you really that obsessed with being better than everyone else?Everyone else? No. Only some people in some areas. That said, it isn't hard.You don't have any psychologists in central Europe? That sounds dreadful.We do have them, but they're for the people who voluntarily go to them, or who are sent on a therapy by the request of some organisation, or rarely, a doctor. But usually psychologists are being used by some corporation workers and workaholics who "don't have" the time for social life.From what I know, Europe has stricter gun regulation than the US...which doesn't say much, but still, there's some regulation. Out here, anyone can buy a gun from a large selection and variety and have it delivered and fully loaded before the weekend starts.It varies, much like in the States. In central Europe is near to impossible to get a gun, Whilst in Switzerland...I honestly can't grasp, how US is not willing to change it's laws regarding the gun control. I just don't understand how someone could think it's okay to change the topic from acknowledging a terrible tragedy to "lol I don't like OP"And then go on the rest of the thread like "OP is wrong because..."The only point of my initial remark, was to show, that throwing insults everywhere isn't needed, nor desired. I guess, that's too hard for some of the people, especially considering his later posts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmor Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's his thread lol, he can do what he wantsNo, he can only do things with it that don't infringe on the forum rules, thread derailment does. It wasn't even him that started the topic drift so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I honestly can't grasp, how US is not willing to change it's laws regarding the gun control. Same reason the japs can't stop killing dolphins and being overall fucking weird, it's so ingrained in the culture that it's virtually impossible to remove. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Gun control similar to Sweden will never be implemented here in the 'States. As soon as the topic of gun control pops up, Gun "enthusiasts" will foam at the mouth about the "communist, socialist, zionist, liberals" trying to take their guns away from them. Meanwhile, every mass shooting will be blamed on games like Doom and Mass Effect instead of the fact that psychologically unhinged people are buying guns in order to turn them on their peers, children, or random people who "looked at them funny". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewge Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So in Australia, a mass shooting happened once. And only once.Immediately after it happened, heavy gun laws became a thing, and all crimes involving guns plummeted by -huge- amounts. Including gun-related suicides.(I'm talking ratios of like 65%, man). The only concern for enforcing these laws were things such as break-ins and the like would become worse, since people wouldn't own a form of "self-defence". However, they didn't get worse. At all. Seriously.I always find it funny when arguments like this come up, and people cry things like "just enforcing gun laws won't actually do anything." Well, there's a whole country right here proving that it does. It really does.'Murica need to wake on up, and quit stroking your gun shafts. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So in Australia, a mass shooting happened once. And only once.Immediately after it happened, heavy gun laws became a thing, and all crimes involving guns plummeted by -huge- amounts. Including gun-related suicides.(I'm talking ratios of like 65%, man). The only concern for enforcing these laws were things such as break-ins and the like would become worse, since people wouldn't own a form of "self-defence". However, they didn't get worse. At all. Seriously.I always find it funny when arguments like this come up, and people cry things like "just enforcing gun laws won't actually do anything." Well, there's a whole country right here proving that it does. It really does.'Murica need to wake on up, and quit stroking your gun shafts.Exactly. Tell this to my fucking country though and they go all fuckin nuts over their precious second amendment. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentova Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So in Australia, a mass shooting happened once. And only once.Immediately after it happened, heavy gun laws became a thing, and all crimes involving guns plummeted by -huge- amounts. Including gun-related suicides.(I'm talking ratios of like 65%, man). The only concern for enforcing these laws were things such as break-ins and the like would become worse, since people wouldn't own a form of "self-defence". However, they didn't get worse. At all. Seriously.I always find it funny when arguments like this come up, and people cry things like "just enforcing gun laws won't actually do anything." Well, there's a whole country right here proving that it does. It really does.'Murica need to wake on up, and quit stroking your gun shafts.Didn't they literally like, go door to door and demand all the guns that everyone owned? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmor Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) The UK, with its ultra strict gun laws, has only had 3 mass killings in the last 20 years, only 2 of them involving guns. Even scaling that up to a population the size of the US, the mass murders per capita it's still tiny compared to the US, which seems to have mass shootings every other month. Edited October 2, 2015 by Kalmor 20 years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukh Whitefang Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) The problem has never been "guns aren't illegal". The problem is "guns are too easy to obtain and there's almost no regulation in America for them". The minute "gun control" is brought up, people fly off the handle and assume that everyone wants to remove all weaponry from the US and "violate the second amendment" and the outburst is enough to keep the gun control laws, or lack thereof, right where they are and nothing changes.This is the issue.Uhm, there is regulation. Most if not all states have a requirement for background checks. If nothing shows up then what? A mental exam? How would that work, how would you regulate the psychiatrist and make sure they are doing their job? What needs to be done is to change the culture. Extreme regulation will not keep gun violence down, if that was the case it would be visibly proven (look at how many shootings just took place in Chicago over last weekend). Until you change the culture and mindset of people nothing will change. Give me any supposed law that will keep a gun out of the hands of someone who has no criminal history and passes a background check yet could in the future have a complete mental breakdown. There is no law that can prevent that. Edited October 2, 2015 by Rukh Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Exactly. Tell this to my fucking country though and they go all fuckin nuts over their precious second amendment."Muh rights"! Or something akin to that.I have no problems with gun ownership and I know some responsible people who know the value of gun control. On the other hand, I know some people who really need gun control laws to step in and they are the type of people that find it funny pointing loaded guns at their friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentova Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Also I'm gunna say that plenty if not the majority of people who own guns, like myself, are just hobbyists who enjoy the sporting aspect of target shooting. Not everyone is a crazed redneck thinking that everyone is out to get them. Personally, I think that while yes we need to adjust our gun laws, outright banning them is not the solution. I think the big things we should focus on are safety, education, mental health, and figuring out what drives people to do this shootings in the first place. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 At this point I think it's on gun nuts to prove how NOT adding more regulations will make things okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Extreme regulation will not keep gun violence down, if that was the case it would be visibly proven (look at how many shootings just took place in Chicago over last weekend).Australia.At this point I think it's on gun nuts to prove how NOT adding more regulations will make things okay.They're doin a great job so far lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) At this point I think it's on gun nuts to prove how NOT adding more regulations will make things okay.Because criminals will be the only people owning guns, and I have to protect my neighborhood from that strange black kid walking in my neighborhood. :V EDIT: Also http://www.shootingtracker.com Edited October 2, 2015 by Ozriel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentova Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Oh, also the way gun purchases work isn't that you just walk into wal-mart, slam some money down, and walk out with a heavy machine gun. You have to do about a shit ton of paperwork, have them run a background check (which admittedly they should do a better job and I think improved background checks should be implemented), and for handguns you have to wait a week. And despite popular belief fully automatic weapons are INCREDIBLY regulated, cost like 20k+, and you pay a $200 tax stamp to the government and basically agree that the FBI can happily knock down your door at any time and make sure you have it locked up and unloaded or else. Edited October 2, 2015 by Mentova Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukh Whitefang Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 At this point I think it's on gun nuts to prove how NOT adding more regulations will make things okay.Give us a regulation that could have prevented this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 So in Australia, a mass shooting happened once. And only once.Immediately after it happened, heavy gun laws became a thing, and all crimes involving guns plummeted by -huge- amounts. Including gun-related suicides.(I'm talking ratios of like 65%, man). The only concern for enforcing these laws were things such as break-ins and the like would become worse, since people wouldn't own a form of "self-defence". However, they didn't get worse. At all. Seriously.I always find it funny when arguments like this come up, and people cry things like "just enforcing gun laws won't actually do anything." Well, there's a whole country right here proving that it does. It really does.'Murica need to wake on up, and quit stroking your gun shafts.To be fair, if you're living in Australia there's like a million things trying to kill you at once at all times. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmor Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Give us a regulation that could have prevented this.Compulsory mental health and drug screening before a firearm licence can be awarded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Give us a regulation that could have prevented this.Same regulations the UK has. They're obviously doing something better than us, lol. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmor Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Oh, also the way gun purchases work isn't that you just walk into wal-mart, slam some money down, and walk out with a heavy machine gun. You have to do about a shit ton of paperwork, have them run a background check (which admittedly they should do a better job and I think improved background checks should be implemented), and for handguns you have to wait a week. And despite popular belief fully automatic weapons are INCREDIBLY regulated, cost like 20k+, and you pay a $200 tax stamp to the government and basically agree that the FBI can happily knock down your door at any time and make sure you have it locked up and unloaded or else.I hear that this differs from state to state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Oh, also the way gun purchases work isn't that you just walk into wal-mart, slam some money down, and walk out with a heavy machine gun. You have to do about a shit ton of paperwork, have them run a background check (which admittedly they should do a better job and I think improved background checks should be implemented), and for handguns you have to wait a week. And despite popular belief fully automatic weapons are INCREDIBLY regulated, cost like 20k+, and you pay a $200 tax stamp to the government and basically agree that the FBI can happily knock down your door at any time and make sure you have it locked up and unloaded or else.For certain handguns in Virginia, you can get it on the same day, provided you do a background check (which takes an hour). However, you have to wait a week to get any ammunition.Gun Shows do not have or have little regulation on firearms like handguns and Ammo. In Virginia, background checks aren't required at gun shows. If any potential criminal wants to get a gun, they can go there.http://www.governing.com/gov-data/safety-justice/gun-show-firearms-bankground-checks-state-laws-map.html Edited October 2, 2015 by Ozriel 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidhenearlahi Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 To be fair, if you're living in Australia there's like a million things trying to kill you at once at all times.Yeah, but they don't have guns, so they have to get up really close to us to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I hear that this differs from state to state. Pretty much. Basic rule of thumb is the further south you go the easier it is buy a gun. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalmor Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Same regulations the UK has. They're obviously doing something better than us, lol.Bear in mind that our laws pretty much outright ban every firearm unless you have an extremely good reason. Our laws would be considered unconstitutional in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukh Whitefang Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Australia.Different culture, big difference. Thats why I said in the U.S the problem is the culture first and foremost. Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. Yet gun crimes are not out of control like in the U.S. Care to explain? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentova Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I hear that this differs from state to state. The only thing that might differ is the waiting period. You certainly have to do a metric fuck-ton of paperwork. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucyfish Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Bear in mind that our laws pretty much outright ban every firearm unless you have an extremely good reason. Our laws would be considered unconstitutional in the US. Compromise between the two would still undoubtedly make some sort of change for the better at least. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irreverent Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) So in Australia, a mass shooting happened once. And only once.Immediately after it happened, heavy gun laws became a thing, and all crimes involving guns plummeted by -huge- amounts. Including gun-related suicides.(I'm talking ratios of like 65%, man).I remember it a tad differently Hewge....the crime and suicide rates were falling before the implementation of the new laws; mostly due to an aging population. The same trend was observed in Canada. Didn't they literally like, go door to door and demand all the guns that everyone owned?I can't speak for Australia, but when the Liberals implemented C-68 (aka the Firearms Act) circa 1995, they did send the RCMP door to door (armed with H&K MP5's) to confiscate some types of legally purchased firearms. Laughably, they left arguably far more lethal guns behind. The Liberals actually went through the Gun Digest book of 1989-1990 and circled all the "scary looking" guns for confiscation or prohibition. The actual book was not destroyed was discovered via a freedom of information act request. At this point I think it's on gun nuts to prove how NOT adding more regulations will make things okay.Canada scrapped its wasteful $6 billion dollar (enough to buy 2 MRI machines for every hospital in Canada) long gun registry in 2014 and the murder rate continues to decline. Less regulation, more guns, less crime. It can and does happen. Mind you, I'm not a gun nut, I just sit on the Board of Directors for a Gun Club, and Coach at the provincial level. Edited October 2, 2015 by Irreverent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukh Whitefang Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) Compulsory mental health and drug screening before a firearm licence can be awarded. And how would you regulate that mental health examiner? To make sure they are impartial. How would appeals work or would there be any at all. And when a person passes all those tests and then months/years later commits a gun crime then what? Give me any supposed law that will keep a gun out of the hands of someone who has no criminal history and passes a background check yet could in the future have a complete mental breakdown. There is no law that can prevent that. This is a culture issue, a mental health issue. And until that is addressed you can make all the rules and regulations you want, nothing will change.And yes for the record I am a legal, responsible gun owner that does carry in public.Big Edit: A New York Post article is saying the shooter was lining people up and demanding they state their religion and then shooting them. Don't know if this is true or not but if it is it gives us a motive. And opens a huge can of worms.http://nypost.com/2015/10/01/oregon-gunman-singled-out-christians-during-rampage/ Edited October 2, 2015 by Rukh Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Different culture, big difference. Thats why I said in the U.S the problem is the culture first and foremost. Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. Yet gun crimes are not out of control like in the U.S. Care to explain? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_SwitzerlandSame thing you mentioned. Cultural difference. From what I know, in Switzerland ammunition cannot be kept at home, it has to stay at shooting ranges or military-regulated areas, citizens must serve in the military where they teach rigorous gun safety, and carrying a concealed weapon is only permitted to people with the proper license to do so, which is usually military and security. There's also differences in how their government runs, what with all those "dreaded socialist" things like good healthcare, and laws regarding work and such that contribute to low crime rates and better health among citizens.But hey, you keep flailing that Wikipedia page around like it means something. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mentova Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I can't speak for Australia, but when the Liberals implemented C-68 (aka the Firearms Act) circa 1995, they did send the RCMP door to door (armed with H&K MP5's) to confiscate some types of legally purchased firearms. Laughably, they left arguably far more lethal guns behind. The Liberals actually went through the Gun Digest book of 1989-1990 and circled all the "scary looking" guns for confiscation or prohibition. The actual book was not destroyed was discovered via a freedom of information act request.See shit like this scares me more than a crazy redneck with an arsenal of shotguns. I donno about you guys but I sure as hell don't want Uncle Sam busting down my door and pointing an SMG in my face and demanding I turn over my .22 plinker or get my brains splattered on the wall. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayattar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 And how would you regulate that mental health examiner? To make sure they are impartial. How would appeals work or would there be any at all. And when a person passes all those tests and then months/years later commits a gun crime then what? Give me any supposed law that will keep a gun out of the hands of someone who has no criminal history and passes a background check yet could in the future have a complete mental breakdown. There is no law that can prevent that. This is a culture issue, a mental health issue. And until that is addressed you can make all the rules and regulations you want, nothing will change.And yes for the record I am a legal, responsible gun owner that does carry in public.It's very simple. Obligatory check-out ever two years. We have those here, in Poland, for all gun owners. Actually, we have those for other groups of people too. Like 65 yo+ who have driving licenses, checking if they're still fit to drive.Different culture, big difference. Thats why I said in the U.S the problem is the culture first and foremost. Switzerland has one of the highest gun ownership rates in the world. Yet gun crimes are not out of control like in the U.S. Care to explain? Only two words. Mandatory training. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irreverent Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) See shit like this scares me more than a crazy redneck with an arsenal of shotguns. I donno about you guys but I sure as hell don't want Uncle Sam busting down my door and pointing an SMG in my face and demanding I turn over my .22 plinker or get my brains splattered on the wall.It only happened for a very narrow subset of "scary guns" that were ordered prohibited by an OIC (order in council, like a US Executive Order). Google Firearms Prohibition Order in Council number 11 if you want the list. I had a a SPAS-12 on order at the time, but was not in possession when the order came down. Edited October 2, 2015 by Irreverent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Only two words. Mandatory training.This. I'm all for gun ownership, but it should be as hard as reasonably possible to make sure some tacticool chucklefuck on /k/ or something doesn't get a chance to live out his "totally operatorz xd" fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onnes Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It will be illuminating to find out what chemical cocktail the shooter was on. Polytechnic, Taber, Columbine, Sandy Hook, the list is endless and the link between pharmacopoeia and school shootings is no longer just anecdotal. Its easier to blame guns and so-called gun culture than to deal with the tsunami of mental illnesses ravaging North America.I'm pretty sure that anyone close enough to the edge to go on a shooting spree would first end up at with at least an SSRI prescription these days. This seems akin to noticing that a lot of people tend to die in hospitals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukh Whitefang Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Same thing you mentioned. Cultural difference. From what I know, in Switzerland ammunition cannot be kept at home, it has to stay at shooting ranges or military-regulated areas, citizens must serve in the military where they teach rigorous gun safety, and carrying a concealed weapon is only permitted to people with the proper license to do so, which is usually military and security. There's also differences in how their government runs, what with all those "dreaded socialist" things like good healthcare, and laws regarding work and such that contribute to low crime rates and better health among citizens.But hey, you keep flailing that Wikipedia page around like it means something.Well according to the link I gave you there is no ban on owning regular non- military ammunition at home. So, not sure where a person can own a gun but not have ammo in the house comes from I didn't see anything. But you go ahead and flail around your opinion without any validity to the statements your making (See I can make rude posts to, it does nothing for the conversation okay?). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irreverent Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm pretty sure that anyone close enough to the edge to go on a shooting spree would first end up at with at least an SSRI prescription these days. This seems akin to noticing that a lot of people tend to die in hospitals.Indeed. And in addition to SSRI's all manor of other prescription drugs. But the question remains, is it causal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayattar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 This. I'm all for gun ownership, but it should be as hard as reasonably possible to make sure some tacticool chucklefuck on /k/ or something doesn't get a chance to live out his "totally operatorz xd" fantasy.Why would it be "hard"? Trainings that we have here aren't even comparable to average milsims. Just a simple briefing on how weapons work and on maintenance. Mostly, they focus on checking the knowledge of the law and mental state. Heck, I even spent two weeks on a military training after the ukraininan crisis began and for me it was nothing else than a May Day picnic. Yet, those trainings are enough to screen out nuts. Oh. And one more thing. Here people are obliged to keep their weapons in safes when they're not using them. So no cases of children taking parent's weapons.Honestly, in this gun-less society I -do- feel safe. But if everyone else had a gun, then I'd need to have one as well. Just to make myself feel secure.I'm pretty sure that anyone close enough to the edge to go on a shooting spree would first end up at with at least an SSRI prescription these days. This seems akin to noticing that a lot of people tend to die in hospitals.I wonder what's causing them. Like... we don't even have half of those. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaizy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Well according to the link I gave you there is no ban on owning regular non- military ammunition at home. So, not sure where a person can own a gun but not have ammo in the house comes from I didn't see anything. But you go ahead and flail around your opinion without any validity to the statements your making (See I can make rude posts to, it does nothing for the conversation okay?).See the problem is the Wikipage completely avoids stating where you store ammo, it only mentions purchasing it. The information I got was from someone who lives in Switzerland. But if you want proof, here's an article from BBC that goes over Switzerland's gun regulations, and they mention this little tidbit: "The Army doesn't give ammunition now - it's all kept in a central arsenal." This measure was introduced by Switzerland's Federal Council in 2007.Also this:In America then, gun ownership is about self-defence whereas in Switzerland it is seen more in terms of national security. Guns are given to citizens after the military time, and they are not allowed to buy ammo and bring it home, it stays at military sites and shooting ranges. They even advise citizens to disassemble the weapons when they store them at home. The government HEAVILY discourages using the weapons given to the citizens because they're not for fun or to just have because they're "entitled to them", it's for protecting their country.Literally, one Google search cleared that up. Wikipedia pages aren't a reliable source of facts because they don't always have all the information. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastryOfApathy Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 Why would it be "hard"? Trainings that we have here aren't even comparable to average milsims. Just a simple briefing on how weapons work and on maintenance. Mostly, they focus on checking the knowledge of the law and mental state. Heck, I even spent two weeks on a military training after the ukraininan crisis began and for me it was nothing else than a May Day picnic. Yet, those trainings are enough to screen out nuts. Oh. And one more thing. Here people are obliged to keep their weapons in safes when they're not using them. So no cases of children taking parent's weapons.Honestly, in this gun-less society I -do- feel safe. But if everyone else had a gun, then I'd need to have one as well. Just to make myself feel secure.I wonder what's causing them. Like... we don't even have half of those.I mean in the sense that you need to make a serious commitment to actually be allowed to own one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukh Whitefang Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 It's very simple. Obligatory check-out ever two years. We have those here, in Poland, for all gun owners. Actually, we have those for other groups of people too. Like 65 yo+ who have driving licenses, checking if they're still fit to drive.Only two words. Mandatory training.There are mandatory classes for conceal carry here. My permit lasts for only 5 years and I have to resubmit (and pay). And if the laws change then I am required by law to retake the class as well. But for purchasing a handgun. When I bought mine several years ago I walked into the gun store, had a background check done right there and walked out with my permit and firearm. Thats it.And none of those regulations would have stopped a 7 person shooting spree in my state. As the guy illegally had a firearm. Had a huge criminal record (felonies make it illegal to own a firearm) that dated back well over a decade and was bipolar on top of it and not on meds. Bought and used an illegally purchased firearm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rukh Whitefang Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) See the problem is the Wikipage completely avoids stating where you store ammo, it only mentions purchasing it. The information I got was from someone who lives in Switzerland. But if you want proof, here's an article from BBC that goes over Switzerland's gun regulations, and they mention this little tidbit:Also this:Guns are given to citizens after the military time, and they are not allowed to buy ammo and bring it home, it stays at military sites and shooting ranges. They even advise citizens to disassemble the weapons when they store them at home. The government HEAVILY discourages using the weapons given to the citizens because they're not for fun or to just have because they're "entitled to them", it's for protecting their country.Literally, one Google search cleared that up. Wikipedia pages aren't a reliable source of facts because they don't always have all the information.That ban is for the military servicemen only...http://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/soldiers-can-keep-guns-at-home-but-not-ammo/970614May want to double check what the article actually is saying. "Swiss citizens - for example hunters, or those who shoot as a sport - can get a permit to buy guns and ammunition" That was taken right from the article you posted. Edited October 2, 2015 by Rukh Whitefang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtrekkie Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I'm all for better training to get licensed, and for the required use of gun locks or safes. Big Edit: A New York Post article is saying the shooter was lining people up and demanding they state their religion and then shooting them. Don't know if this is true or not but if it is it gives us a motive. And opens a huge can of worms.http://nypost.com/2015/10/01/oregon-gunman-singled-out-christians-during-rampage/It happens. Won't change anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayattar Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) And none of those regulations would have stopped a 7 person shooting spree in my state. As the guy illegally had a firearm. Had a huge criminal record (felonies make it illegal to own a firearm) that dated back well over a decade and was bipolar on top of it and not on meds. Bought and used an illegally purchased firearm. Yes, but now ask yourself, how would it look like if other people had no guns? Would he use a gun or just a knife?You know when last shooting happened here? In 2009. You know who died? Only members of criminal organisations who were participating. There were no random civilian casualties due to firearms usage since 1995 and the war between Wolomin and Pruszkow gangs. Illegal weapons are being owned and used here as well (I, myself, had a fully functioning Mauser 98k rifle for a time). But not against random citizens. Since 2007 average amount of crimes in which guns were involved oscillates around 500 yearly with average 25 murders per a year. Whilst in US only in 2012 there were 8855 homicides with guns involved.Now, considering that US has 9 times more citizens... It gives us 8855 homicides yearly in the US compared to 225 here. 39 times more. Nuff said. Edited October 2, 2015 by Ayattar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaCat Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 (edited) This sort of thing seems to happens mostly in the US. Why? Does your educational system fall short when it comes to addresing bullying? That's usually the motive, right?The US is one of the largest countries in the world with one of the largest populations of people. It also allows people to carry guns. Wouldn't that combination mean that statistically speaking the US would have a larger number of school shootings than other places?Also because of the fame that comes from school shootings, it encourages some certain people to commit such actions, thus creating a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. there's a video on this somewhere that mentions that the fame gotten from such pushes more people to do it....I've gotta find it.Yes, but now ask yourself, how would it look like if other people had no guns? Would he use a gun or just a knife?You know when last shooting happened here? In 2009. You know who died? Only members of criminal organisations who were participating. There were no random civilian casualties due to firearms usage since 1995 and the war between Wolomin and Pruszkow gangs. And all the murders in which firearms were involved were concerning high-ranked officials, who were either corrupted or had valuable info (like general Marek Papala).Illegal weapons are being owned and used here as well (I, myself, had a fully functioning Mauser 98k rifle for a time). But not against random citizens. Since 2007 average amount of crimes in which guns were involved oscillates around 500 yearly with average 25 murders per a year. Whilst in US only in 2012 there were 8855 homicides with guns involved.Now, considering that US has 9 times more citizens...It gives us 8855 homicides yearly in the US to 225 here. 39 times more.Nuff said.Where do you live? Wouldn't population size be an important factor to consider? Edited October 2, 2015 by Battlechili Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Summercat Posted October 2, 2015 Share Posted October 2, 2015 I see the Onion article has been linked, so my job here is done.Also, a gun has exactly one purpose. Killing. Either people, or animals. Or to threaten it's use. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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