Thoughts on Charlottesville and neo-nazis

[Toshabi]

On 8/21/2017 at 0:07 PM, kazooie said:

Maintaining the status quo of "maybe everyone is a little to blame" is the path of least resistance. MLK pretty famously talked about the issue, and Hitler himself said that his movement started off weak, and could've been easily smashed.

 

To a certain degree, though, there's more than that. Currently, on the 'net, it's popular to hate on "The Left" -- tonnes of people have gotten on board the train, and have made quite a decent sum off it. The boogeyman of the "SJW" stuck, and people have proven themselves willing to leap to great lengths to rationalize their hatred against this universal, intangible, foe. After systemically demonizing "The Left" for the past couple years, reality has hit back hard, and pretty much none of the pundits & grifters have been willing to accept any form of responsibility for their contribution to the radicalization that has occurred -- instead they deflect. Blaming ANTIFA, for example, rather than acknowledge the effect of their endless stream of low-effort, clickbait-y "SJW DEGENERACY WILL LEAD TO THE END OF WESTERN CIVILIZATION" , is just way easier, and people buy it, so why not.

 

I still remember seeing my alt-right youtube news feed getting filled "CANADA IS BURNING TO THE GROUND" on the day a trans civil rights bill passed

Like, the amount of empty, reactionary, fearmongering bullshit that's pumped into the 'net probably outclasses that of conservative radio at this point.

 

 

 

[AshleyAshes]

6 hours ago, kazooie said:

CANADA IS LOST, ALSO EUROPE???

i fukken love neofascist frog internet

I suppose the big warning sign is all of our political stability and our functional parliament that can actually pass legislation...

The biggest ACTUAL red flag is the rising cost of housing in areas around Toronto and Vancouver.

[WileyWarWeasel]

6 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

I suppose the big warning sign is all of our political stability and our functional parliament that can actually pass legislation...

The biggest ACTUAL red flag is the rising cost of housing in areas around Toronto and Vancouver.

What about all the fires.

[AshleyAshes]

1 hour ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

What about all the fires.

Yeah but the US has that problem too.  Yay global warming.

[Lucyfish]

Nazis and Confederates are losers shablammo

[kazooie]

9 hours ago, Toshabi said:

 

[kazooie]

9 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

I suppose the big warning sign is all of our political stability and our functional parliament that can actually pass legislation...

The biggest ACTUAL red flag is the rising cost of housing in areas around Toronto and Vancouver.

im pretty sure its the jews, actually

also i guess the nazis really do hate trudeau (tho honestly trudeau is kinda a two-faced neolib; do the right thing next election & vote NDP, its our only hope of actually getting electoral reform through & killing C51)

[AyGee]

7 minutes ago, kazooie said:

HEY!

... Somebody noticed us.  Not only that, but we're the biggest tribble on that table.  Furries for most important tribble: 2017.

Also, it seems things have gotten thoroughly derailed.

[kazooie]

11 minutes ago, AyGee said:

HEY!

... Somebody noticed us.  Not only that, but we're the biggest tribble on that table.  Furries for most important tribble: 2017.

Also, it seems things have gotten thoroughly derailed.

ben garrison has pretty much been exclusively pandering to the alt-right and anti-semities for a while now. he is 100% on topic, lol

[Vae]

<mod post>
This thread is about the Charlottesville situation.

If you want to talk about Canadian politics, take it to a new thread. This isn't the one for it.
</mod post>

[AshleyAshes]

1 hour ago, Vae said:

<mod post>
This thread is about the Charlottesville situation.

If you want to talk about Canadian politics, take it to a new thread. This isn't the one for it.
</mod post>

This is actually a little over reaching.  The topic of Canada and Germany are not to infrequently brought up in these 'Alt-Right' discussions with both counties used as shining examples of what these individuals fear America may turn into.  I've seen right leaning Americans going on about 'Canada's SOCIALISM' and 'Crumbling Economy' while I'm like 'What are you guys going on about?'.  Similarly, I've seen comparisons oddly to Germany because... Watch out America, don't be like the strongest economy in Europe with amazingly low consumer debt levels than the United States.

These people marching for their white supremacy and alt-right stuff, I'm honestly kinda BAFFLED by what passes as their 'doomsday countries' to use as cautionary tales.  And these are some of the things these people are 'marching' against.  

[Vae]

I don't care about the political dick-measuring.
I just said that if you want to discuss it, take it to another thread.

We're talking about racism in America, not Canada's socialism policies or Germany's economy.

[AshleyAshes]

30 minutes ago, Vae said:

I don't care about the political dick-measuring.
I just said that if you want to discuss it, take it to another thread.

We're talking about racism in America, not Canada's socialism policies or Germany's economy.

Well, no, 'Racists In America Thinking Canada Is An Example to Fear And This Is Why We Need Change In America' is totally relevant.

You're trying to enforce the topic super narrowly, don't you think?

[kazooie]

43 minutes ago, Vae said:

I don't care about the political dick-measuring.
I just said that if you want to discuss it, take it to another thread.

We're talking about racism in America, not Canada's socialism policies or Germany's economy.

In the nazi torch rally, one chant that was often used was "YOU WILL NOT REPLACE US"/"JEWS WILL NOT REPLACE US"

 

Fun fact: Laura Southern, popular alt-right/lite pundit, popularized this take on "white genocide" in her video "The Great Replacement", and it was soon parroted by a plethora of other white nationalists. 

 

Laura Southern is also Canadian! A ton of alt-lite grifters are actually Canadian, weirdly enough; the "proudboys" and the "alt-knights" offshoots are both thanks to our brave Canadian boys 

[AshleyAshes]

14 minutes ago, kazooie said:

"proudboys"

Not gonna lie, 'Proud Boys' is like the GAYEST name you could pick for an Alt-Right/Alt-Light group name.  It sounds like the name for porn site featuring young adult gay men or something.

[kazooie]

4 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Not gonna lie, 'Proud Boys' is like the GAYEST name you could pick for an Alt-Right/Alt-Light group name.  It sounds like the name for porn site featuring young adult gay men or something.

    

[Tsuujou]

10 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Not gonna lie, 'Proud Boys' is like the GAYEST name you could pick for an Alt-Right/Alt-Light group name.  It sounds like the name for porn site featuring young adult gay men or something.

Proud Boys sounds like a shitpost Tumblr account

[AshleyAshes]

5 minutes ago, kazooie said:

    

Those literally look like the kinda husky bros you see walking out of the Bear bar in the queer village here in Toronto.  ...Including the ones wielding vaguely roman armor...

Though I must admit that 'Proud Boys' gave me more of a 'Twink' mental image but gay is gay.

[Mandragoras]

There's something deeply weird to me about racists and xenophobes using Roman imagery everywhere given that the Roman Empire was an ethnically diverse bureaucracy which gradually shifted from speaking one primary language to another and whose royalty mass-converted to a messianic Middle Eastern fringe religion for political reasons.

[kazooie]

9 minutes ago, Mandragoras said:

There's something deeply weird to me about racists and xenophobes using Roman imagery everywhere given that the Roman Empire was an ethnically diverse bureaucracy which gradually shifted from speaking one primary language to another and whose royalty mass-converted to a messianic Middle Eastern fringe religion for political reasons.

the white nationalists will argue to the death that the roman empire was an ethnically pure whites-only state, not even kidding

[Mandragoras]

11 minutes ago, kazooie said:

the white nationalists will argue to the death that the roman empire was an ethnically pure whites-only state, not even kidding

Because their heads have been crushed by their own rectal muscles.

Septimius Severus was black, for fuck's sake.

[Zaraphayx]

1 hour ago, kazooie said:

the white nationalists will argue to the death that the roman empire was an ethnically pure whites-only state, not even kidding

You're retarded and don't know anything about white nationalists if you think they believe this.

Most of them are primitivists and literally believe that Rome's cosmopolitan decadence was the reason why it fell to the genetically and culturally superior Germanic tribes of the north. They see civilization and globalism as mistakes and that's why there's a preponderance of doomsday preppers and neo-pagans in their movements.

it's really embarrassing watching you try to criticize movements you don't even understand; you manage to do the impossible and make them look wiser in comparison.

This isn't really even exclusive to Kazooie either, the lot of you talking politics reminds me a lot of middle school "mock debate" where 12 year olds just parrot back the soundbites they've been exposed to through their parents and morning radio.

[kazooie]

1 hour ago, Mandragoras said:

Because their heads have been crushed by their own rectal muscles.

Septimius Severus was black, for fuck's sake.

neo nazis are not known for their intelligence honestly

 

28 minutes ago, Zaraphayx said:

You're don't know anything about white nationalists

oh please, i listen to the daily shoah, ive been to all the neo nazi hives, ive seen all the alt-right/lite grifters. ive listened to that one vertically-compressed libertarian who desperately needs a shirt. i joined all the shitty discord meme hives where they organized the rallies in the first place, lmao (thanks for banning a few of them discord).

 

i mean, ive never been to one of the Daily Stormer's Book Club Meetings, but i've wanted to, out of morbid curiosity

[Zaraphayx]

16 minutes ago, kazooie said:

oh please, i listen to the daily shoah, ive been to all the neo nazi hives, ive seen all the alt-right/lite grifters. ive listened to that one vertically-compressed libertarian who desperately needs a shirt. i joined all the shitty discord meme hives where they organized the rallies in the first place, lmao (thanks for banning a few of them discord). 

Oh yeah I forgot you're a buffoon and still don't know the difference between neo-nazis, white nationalists, and the alt-right and use the terms interchangeably because it's much more convenient to see the viewpoints of every group you're ideologically opposed to as an amorphous blob of evil.

That was my mistake, I momentarily forgot I can't talk to you like an equal.

[kazooie]

6 minutes ago, Zaraphayx said:

Oh yeah I forgot you're a buffoon and still don't know the difference between neo-nazis, white nationalism, and the alt-right

they've all pretty much converged at this point, yeah

specifically in charlottesville.

 

all the alt-righters there were happy to chant "blood and soil" along with the stormfronters + oathkeepers, which isn't really surprising. The Daily Stormer & Stormfront specifically used the alt-right movement to recruit, and all of the flavours of extreme conservatism + fascism have adopted a ton of the same talking points (such as white genocide)

[Zaraphayx]

Just now, kazooie said:

they've all pretty much converged at this point, yeah

 

specifically in charlottesville.

all the alt-righters there were happy to chant "blood and soil" along with the stormfronters + oathkeepers, which isn't really surprising. The Daily Stormer & Stormfront specifically used the alt-right movement to recruit, and all of the flavours of extreme conservatism + fascism have adopted a ton of the same talking points (such as white genocide)

It's hilarious that you think this because there's a massive amount of disunity between the various factions of the fringe right that is readily apparent to anyone following the neo-reactionary movement.

keep name-dropping all of the subreddits you browse obsessively though, you may yet convince someone other than yourself that you're some kind of impartial social scientist and all of your conclusions are born of observation and not out of neuroticism and fear.

[kazooie]

8 minutes ago, Zaraphayx said:

keep name-dropping all of the subreddits you browse obsessively though

almost no fringe-right movements organize on reddit, what the hell are you talking about. they all use discord, youtube, *chan, and shitty forums/podcasts. i guess there's reddit's manosphere, but that's been mostly absorbed by the overarching alt-right wave. if you're talking about T_D, that's like the absolute bottom of the barrel.

[Zaraphayx]

Just now, kazooie said:

almost no fringe-right movement organize on reddit, what the hell are you talking about. they all use discord, youtube, *chan, and shitty forums/podcasts. i guess there's reddit's manosphere, but that's been mostly absorbed by the overarching alt-right wave. if you're talking about T_D, that's like the absolute bottom of the barrel.

 

[kazooie]

Just now, Zaraphayx said:

you did it

[Zaraphayx]

Just now, kazooie said:

you did it

I was making fun of the time you got super obsessed with /r/theredpill and kept pasting threads from it on discord like a sperg.

You know, that behavior that precipitated me calling you an autist which made you so triggered you harassed our mutual friends about jokes I made on twitter.

Yeah I'd want to forget those moments too if I was you.

Keep going, I can hear that keyboard rattle from here.

You'll 'get' me eventually, don't worry.

Just keep trying.

[kazooie]

12 minutes ago, Zaraphayx said:

/r/theredpill

 

Quote

18. Cultivate a “reality distortion field”
In order to do this, you must fully INTERNALIZE the “I am enough” belief system.
Understanding it in theory isn’t enough. You have to feel it with your whole “mass”. You have to believe it with total, unquestioning, brainwashed conviction.
The more you think about the idea that there’s no reason you’re not enough, the more it will feel “true”. (Things become true to us through repetition, not through logic.)
Use self-hypnosis if necessary. Find every reason you can to support the belief that you’re enough, while cultivating “deliberate blindness” to anything that contradicts it.
Don’t be a slave to logic. Make logic a slave to you. This is how you cultivate a “reality distortion field”.

TRP was good shit, lol. im glad they found their place in the neofascist movement.

[Zaraphayx]

Just now, kazooie said:

 

TRP was good shit, lol. im glad they found their place in the neofascist movement.

ahahah

he links the segment about "cultivating a reality distortion field"

You can't fucking write comedic irony this good.

You stared into the abyss, and it gazed back into you.

What a ridiculous species we are.

Also you realize that a significant portion of the "neofascist movement" thinks pick-up artists are degenerate hedonists right?

[kazooie]

14 minutes ago, Zaraphayx said:

Also you realize that a significant portion of the "neofascist movement" thinks pick-up artists are degenerate hedonists right?

they're good memes

 

[willow]

Let's keep the shitposting and namecalling to a minimum, thanks

[Toshabi]

 

 It seems like the popular opinion is, either you want to beat the shit out of any nazi or confederate-flag-wearing person you see, or you're a nazi sympathizer. There is no middle ground. I dislike antifa less than the white supremacists, because antifa only exists because of the alt-right, and otherwise wouldn't exist if they weren't around. Antifa doesn't believe in hating people because of skin color or religion. However, out of the ones I've seen online, there seems to be a tendency for the antifa I've talked to to be okay with violence as a protest tool. Plus, they seem to have the attitude that either you support them 100%, or you're the enemy too. I am seriously just copying parts of OP and mixing it with other responses in this thread so that I can shitpost this image of Guy Fieri regurgitating food cause this thread is garbage. The 'Slippery Slope' happened in Germany and at the bottom of that slope was the industrial might of a nation applied to murder on a scale that has yet be replicated and hopefully never will be.  We should be more afraid of allowing history to repeat itself than we should be of 'what could go wrong' if we DON'T stop history from repeating itself.

 

That sort of blatant racism was really fucking...surreal. I don't give a shit about some dirty ass statue. But the mob was just a frightening sight. Turn photos of it black and white, and it's all indistinguishable from the photos of lynch mobs from yesterday  like how they perceive their enemy to be. The very fact that standing up for your first amendment rights, or simply pointing out how regressive these people are somehow makes you a "Nazi sympathizer" while the media is endorsing their narrative, and getting censored for not supporting their hysteria is pretty fucking scary for the future of the most basic human rights. The last thing I want to do is side with these people. 

 

[kazooie]

17 minutes ago, Toshabi said:

Antifa doesn't believe in hating people because of skin color or religion. However, out of the ones I've seen online, there seems to be a tendency for the antifa I've talked to to be okay with violence as a protest tool.

that's pretty much because opposing fascism with shows of force & intimidation is precisely at the core of the antifa movements.

 

the general idea is that White Supremacist/Nationalist/Nazi movements are inherently violent ideologies; you're not going to be able to deport all the jews or mexicans or muslims from their communities peacefully (and that's not including all the people within the movement who are ok with genocide, and believe holocaust was cool & good). historically speaking, people would just go around lynching minorities - blacks, gays, etc, and the rise of white supremacy threatens to bring this violence back. so what you do, is you train communities to defend themselves - to drive them out before they can do harm. 

 

honestly, though, antifa shit really doesn't work too well in large counterprotest situations, imo. when clashing with small bands of roving shitheads looking to lynch people, its good, but in larger crowds inciting violence rarely leads to positive results. that being said, apparently antifacist groups did effectively protect members of a church in charlottesville, and white nationalist groups are scared to shit of antifa for some weird reason (to the point where its been disrupting their operations and causing tonnes of hilarious infighting), so i think its a net positive effect overall.

[Tsuujou]

Crying right now. lmao

[TrishaCat]

1 hour ago, kazooie said:

that's pretty much because opposing fascism with shows of force & intimidation is precisely at the core of the antifa movements.

 

the general idea is that White Supremacist/Nationalist/Nazi movements are inherently violent ideologies; you're not going to be able to deport all the jews or mexicans or muslims from their communities peacefully (and that's not including all the people within the movement who are ok with genocide, and believe holocaust was cool & good). historically speaking, people would just go around lynching minorities - blacks, gays, etc, and the rise of white supremacy threatens to bring this violence back. so what you do, is you train communities to defend themselves - to drive them out before they can do harm. 

 

honestly, though, antifa shit really doesn't work too well in large counterprotest situations, imo. when clashing with small bands of roving shitheads looking to lynch people, its good, but in larger crowds inciting violence rarely leads to positive results. that being said, apparently antifacist groups did effectively protect members of a church in charlottesville, and white nationalist groups are scared to shit of antifa for some weird reason (to the point where its been disrupting their operations and causing tonnes of hilarious infighting), so i think its a net positive effect overall.

Disregarding the fact that you missed the point of his post entirely and essentially responded to something already posted in this thread long before Toshabi posted it....

I'm going to go back and respond to previous arguments when I'm not feeling incredibly lazy, but this question in particular confuses me. If you're critical of antifa, and you're critical of liberals, but you also detest the right.....What are you? I'm having trouble pinpointing your political stance. What is it exactly that you believe in?

[Toshabi]

2 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

If you aren't a liberal, and you aren't an antifa, and you aren't on the right.....What exactly are you?

 

Someone trying to explain the world everyone else lives in while they themselves live inside of a bubble. 

[Zaraphayx]

1 hour ago, kazooie said:

that's pretty much because opposing fascism with shows of force & intimidation is precisely at the core of the antifa movements.

 

the general idea is that White Supremacist/Nationalist/Nazi movements are inherently violent ideologies; you're not going to be able to deport all the jews or mexicans or muslims from their communities peacefully (and that's not including all the people within the movement who are ok with genocide, and believe holocaust was cool & good). historically speaking, people would just go around lynching minorities - blacks, gays, etc, and the rise of white supremacy threatens to bring this violence back. so what you do, is you train communities to defend themselves - to drive them out before they can do harm. 

 

honestly, though, antifa shit really doesn't work too well in large counterprotest situations, imo. when clashing with small bands of roving shitheads looking to lynch people, its good, but in larger crowds inciting violence rarely leads to positive results. that being said, apparently antifacist groups did effectively protect members of a church in charlottesville, and white nationalist groups are scared to shit of antifa for some weird reason (to the point where its been disrupting their operations and causing tonnes of hilarious infighting), so i think its a net positive effect overall.

It's really weird hearing you talk about this critical mass of white nationalists who want to deport all of the jews, mexicans, and muslims.

It's weirder because I live in a state that shares a border with Mexico and EVERYONE here has an opinion on immigration that they'll be happy to share with you, one way or another.

Out of the hundreds of viewpoints I've heard over the years it can't more than a handful who wanted to actually just forcefully deport people based upon ethnicity and not on citizenship status.

Do you just have a higher preponderance of people advocating for a white ethnostate in Toronto or something?

[Tsuujou]

1 hour ago, Battlechili said:

If you're critical of antifa, and you're critical of liberals, but you also detest the right.....What are you? I'm having trouble pinpointing your political stance. What is it exactly that you believe in?

 

[WileyWarWeasel]

Regardless of ideology, large-scale organization (ie civilization) is simply unsustainable.

I suppose it's only natural that as the global economy slows down (and USA itself declines) that an increasing share of people start fervently pushing one ideology or another, it gives them something to believe in even if it is clutching at straws.

[kazooie]

6 hours ago, Battlechili said:

Disregarding the fact that you missed the point of his post entirely and essentially responded to something already posted in this thread long before Toshabi posted it....

it seemed like toshabi didn't read the previous posts. i mean, obviously members of an antifa are going to be ok with violence on some level. 

6 hours ago, Battlechili said:

I'm going to go back and respond to previous arguments when I'm not feeling incredibly lazy, but this question in particular confuses me. If you're critical of antifa, and you're critical of liberals, but you also detest the right.....What are you? I'm having trouble pinpointing your political stance. What is it exactly that you believe in?

it's complicated, and irrelevant to this thread, but suffice to say there's more to the political spectrum than "liberal and conservative" (and... anti-fascist? people like to align it with anarchism, but its not really a political entity per-se).

i'm pretty grateful i live in canada, where you can legitimately vote & volunteer for parties that don't fit into the US' fucked up political dichotomy.

if you want to know about where i align with specific policies or issues, feel free to pm me, i guess

[Dr. Doggo]

8 hours ago, Toshabi said:

 It seems like the popular opinion is, either you want to beat the shit out of any nazi or confederate-flag-wearing person you see, or you're a nazi sympathizer. There is no middle ground. [...] Plus, they seem to have the attitude that either you support them 100%, or you're the enemy too.

That and their worship of communism. If you're not a neo-commie, you can only be a balls-to-the-wall neo-pagannazi Sturmweiner and deserve a beating. Plus extra beatings for treason if your family is from Eastern Europe or China. There's so many things that people hate about Antifa and have done before Trump was even a thing and shoot down any critics as Nazis and only they can be righteous. They see Nazis everywhere.

Then again I guess when you have your head so far up your ass, it's hard to see anything but brown. :^)

[kazooie]

tho, this is definitely the best overlap of r/incel & the alt right that i've ever seen, ahahaha

 

fascism is really stupid

[Tsuujou]

2 hours ago, kazooie said:

it seemed like toshabi didn't read the previous posts. i mean, obviously members of an antifa are going to be ok with violence on some level. 

Oh. My. God. lmao

[Vae]

This thread is an example of why we need a blanket ban on political discussions on Pnix.

It's like watching people shit on the floor and then roll around in it.

[WolfyAmbassador]

Before or if this thread gets closed, I just thought I'd add this hear: 

 

[Tsuujou]

26 minutes ago, WolfyAmbassador said:

Before or if this thread gets closed, I just thought I'd add this hear: 

Terrible, but I feel like driving into a crowd and actually managing to take a life of someone non-violent because they opposed your belief of ethnic cleansing is way way worse. I'm just looking at the situation at the surface level.

[Toshabi]

5 hours ago, kazooie said:

it seemed like toshabi didn't read the previous posts.