Transgender People

[#00Buck]

I do friend

I do

Blub... Glub...

The best escape is though the anus. 

[TrishaCat]

I'm not trans. There was a brief time I wondered if I was for certain personal reasons, but I eventually came to terms that that is not the case.

I don't really know what to say regarding what I think of trans people. I mean, am I supposed to think anything different than what I think of the general human populace? Its just people who feel themselves to be a gender other than the sex they were born with. And that's fine. People who have ill feelings about them and think badly of them for it I have issues with. Trans people generally have a lot on their plate to deal with as it is. Its hard and no one needs more problems in their life.

I will say however that I don't really get it. Like, what does that even mean? If sex and gender are not the same thing, then what is gender? How does one feel one gender over another? I mean, most gender roles applied to how girls and boys act/should act are social contructs, things that society and culture created over time that don't actually have any real-world bearing over how a man or woman acts/should act. And if you take out gender roles/ideas for how people of certain genders act/feel, then what's left? Its difficult for me to understand this, as I don't see how men and women are any different from each other barring a few physical differences/hormonal differences.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Battlechili

[Lucyfish]

Gender is your mental identification, sex is the physical sexual assignment you're born with. There, now you understand it. :3

[TrishaCat]

Gender is your mental identification, sex is the physical sexual assignment you're born with. There, now you understand it. :3

Not really....Mentally speaking, how does one define gender?

Edited October 2, 2015 by Battlechili

[Lucyfish]

Not really....Mentally speaking, how does one define gender?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender

 

Like that

[PastryOfApathy]

I do friend

I do

How does one express their inner fish? Do they like, just kinda stand in a pool for a long time awkwardly staring at things while occasionally making 'blub blub' noises?

[Lucyfish]

How does one express their inner fish? Do they like, just kinda stand in a pool for a long time awkwardly staring at things while occasionally making 'blub blub' noises?

I tend to flop around until people throw me into large bodies of water

[Taikugemu]

If i know some irl? Nope, "there aren't any" transperson around here, mostly because they wouldn't get any help for transition, and they would be shamed to death(literally).

What do i think? Transmen are men and transwomen are women, why would think otherwise? To make their lives miserable?

[Lisek]

Not really....Mentally speaking, how does one define gender?

That is exactly my problem with it. I see gender as a social and cultural construct, so it makes no sense to me. A good hypothetical example would be me identifying as "white". The way "white people" are "expected" to act is a complete cultural construct that has no basis in the mind. I don't identify as anything but myself, I have no reason to act in any fashion because of the genitals I was born with, that concept is ridiculous and needs to go away. So of course I don't care what anyone sees themselves as, I see it as the ideal of a good society to not force people to adhere to a certain behavior based on factors they had no control over.

[aeroxwolf]

I was born a man, I'm happy being a man, i love my body and my....boom stick. So the idea of changing my body to the opposite sex goes against my very nature. Which is why I find trans quite interesting. I think it takes quite some courage to change the body you grew up with. 

I'd like to understand trans a bit better. 

Anyone want to tell me their story?

[DrDingo]

It really wasn't until I joined the fandom and started talking to people that I actually began to understand what it meant. Education on this subject is really quite poor. It should be something they should teach kids about at school, like with sex education.

 

Being able to talk to real people online about it really helped me to better understand why it has done, what it involves and the challenges transpeople face. And really, if you're not the kind of person who can accept that people really have these sorts of problems, you're a bit of a cockface. 

[Clove Darkwave]

I legitimately think there are more transgendered people on these forums than furries.

You just might be right.

[Joshi]

Im not trans no and I dont know transgender people in person unfortunately, but I know some from here and other parts of the fandom. Well.. What should I say? They are great people, nice, funny, fuzzy, like pretty much everyone else in the fandom. I don't like it to call them trans or transgender though. It sounds like they aren't real people anymore or something like that. They just changed their gender and there's nothing bad on it. Hugs for everyone

[KyryK]

My flatmate's a transgirl. When i met her she had a great deal of trouble expressing it and is still nervous about it, since we've moved in together i've done what i can to make her more comfortable with it, pushed her to shave, offered to buy her clothes because she's too nervous to go out and buy them herself and made it clear i don't give a fuck either way. She wears skirts and such around the flat now but she's worried about wearing them outside. Hopefully if i tell her that what other people think doesn't matter enough times it'll sink in but for now she's scared to be herself, she's generally a lot happier now than when i met her though. Currently waiting on an appointment to discuss HRT but apparently it could be a year before she gets one. I'm not going to pretend i understand trans people in the slightest and i don't see a reason to try, all i know is my flatmate hates her body and sees it as wrong. It makes no difference to me what people identify as but i try to offer anyone what support i can to make them happy.

[FlynnCoyote]

I don't understand the mental aspect of wanting to change one's gender. But at the same time I've never met a transperson who has regretted the decision. And I do know a few online, nobody I know irl has spoken of it if they are. For that I can only assume that the feeling is genuine and it's not my place to impede it.

So, no opposition from me, and I'll support the rights to this process as much as I can.

[Fantasma]

All my life I felt out of touch and far from where I should be, from "me".

At 16 I stopped repressing alot, and learned to accept the fact I like men. I thought I was gay, but I'm bi.

I played around with being a femboi because that felt somewhat right, but I didn't know why.

A few weeks (at most) after the passing of our beautiful friend, I realized I am transgender. I am a women.

The dysphoria is not easy when it hits, but what is more frustrating is it comes and (partially) leaves in waves as I desperatly reach and try to hold it close. From what I understand, this is normal until I get further along in my transition.

I've been taking phytoestrogens from flax for a few weeks, then realized I do have naturally decently high estrogen levels (I think).

Still, as soon as I hit my 6 month mark with the company I work for (4 months from now), I'm going on HRT. Because it's good to actually feel like myself, and the idea of changing is an amazing orgasm of an idea.

[Troj]

I've always been a strong advocate for LGBT people. LGBs are gaining ground and respect, and lately, I've found myself advocating more for trans people in particular, because their particular issues aren't generally well-understood. Infuriatingly, the people who know the least about transgenderism are often the most eager to weigh in on the topic, and air their opinions about what should be done with "those people." 

I am absolutely enraged and disgusted by how trans people and their issues are regularly treated. Even people who think they are being "nice" or "not hateful" will still be incredibly arrogant, smug, and condescending in their treatment of trans people, because they still view trans folks as defective or mentally ill, or assume that they're just trolling or attention-whoring. 

I'm disgusted by the way some people evidently believe that they have a right to weigh in on what someone else does with their body, or how they should construct their identity, based on what they like and what they do in their own lives--and worse, whether or not other people's bodies or identities make them feel comfortable or at ease personally!

Equally infuriating is when people police, pester, condescend to, or especially, actively attack trans people in the dubious name of "preserving society," and "helping" trans people to "fit in." I'm angered by how cis people effectively take their cis-ness for granted, and then have the gall to declare that trans people need to "get over" problems they themselves have never had to deal with.

At the end of the day, I also just find it pathetic, dumb, and absurd that people seem to seriously believe that it actually matters whether the person sitting next to them in class or on the bus has (or even so much as wants) a dick when they "should" have (or enjoy having) a vagina, or vice versa. There are much more important things to worry about in life.

[#00Buck]

How does one express their inner fish? Do they like, just kinda stand in a pool for a long time awkwardly staring at things while occasionally making 'blub blub' noises?

Blub... Blub...

[Senpai-Fish]

I have to agree with Troj, and quote my sister on that matter.  "Unless you're that person's doctor, whether or not they have dangly bits really isn't any of your business."

[Ayattar]

Today, is a sad day.

The only info in english I found. Since posting articles in polish is pointless.

[Butters]

There are far more furries than transppl on this forum. Lol

[Taikugemu]

Hmm, isn't Poland extremely catholic?

[Ayattar]

Hmm, isn't Poland extremely catholic?

You want a long or short version?

[Dr. Doggo]

You want a long or short version?

I'll take a medium length version

Poland interests me

also is "Polack" considered a slur or is it like calling someone a brit, kraut, or yank?

[MuttButt]

I was gonna make my own thread about this, but I feel like it's more appropriate to just post it here instead. 

Speaking of furries and LGBT, I've always been fascinated by the seemingly huge frequency of bi, gay, and trans people in the furry fandom. What is the allure? A lot of people like to answer that the fandom is generally very open and accepting, and while that may be true I think that the answer is a little deeper than that. I don't think most queer folks who are furries hop on the furry bandwagon just because the community is welcoming (although it does help), I think there is something intrinsically alluring about the concept of furries, or more specifically anthropomorphic characters to us. 

A random person I was talking to on omegle put it very well, and very simply too. I'll go ahead and paraphrase what they said to me. "Isn't it so much easier to express yourself through a character? LGBT people have a hard time expressing themselves in our society." I think that makes perfect sense. Having a fursona or an OC for a lot of people is just a way to be themselves. It explains why the fandom is made up of so many introverts and oddballs too. I think it's so cool, maybe even a little bit beautiful. I especially believe it because I've been to a furry convention before, and for those of you who haven't experienced it, the energy of a con is truly something to behold. It's almost like a natural high, all of these people coming together in a place where not only do you not need to feel ashamed about who you are and what you like, but you can wear it on your sleeve and have it all be normal for a little while. Goddamn, when it's all said and done I really do love the furry fandom. 

[Taikugemu]

You want a long or short version?

The long version is ok.

[Ayattar]

'Polak' in polish means litteraly "a male Pole". Female version of it would be 'Polka'. So I'd say no, unless it's used with intent (provided that a Pole even know english well enough). I guess it's the same as with "Ruskie".

Back to the original question, there are several things that are plaguing us. First, society feeling indebted to the catholic church for it's role in the fight against the communism in the 80's. That before it church was cooperating with the regime being of no importance. Second, older generations, who holds most of the political power being molded in the spirit of being indebted to the church. Third, the legacy of pope John Paul II being a real scourge. Fourth, coherent society, not being susceptible to changes. Fifth, church directly controling ca. 20% of the votes and being opinion-forming in regard to at least 30% more.

Now, in the last few years we've seen some change here - first gay MP, then trans MP, and in the end gay becoming a president of the city. There have been a try on introducing civil unions and finally that. Also, there have been a movement demanding dropping religion lessons from the school, in which I'm participating myself.

Whilst officialy, according to various sources from 85% up to 95% of the Poles are catholics, in reality those numbers are far less. It's like that mainly because it's near to impossible to get apostasy without changing religion to the other.. 57% of the Poles trust catholic church, 40% attend to the church regularily and only 16% attends to the sacraments (thank you penance and reconciliation for being here!).

Now in every day life in the percentage, it looks similarly. Church isn't interfering with your everyday's business. It only acivates every time where some major changes are to happen - and only when those changes are against churches' principles, and when it's possible that they'll shake it's monopoly. Then, out of sudden everyone goes apeshit crazy about traditions of the forefathers and nation's heritage.

And everyone who's 40-50, so most of the recognizable leftist activists are automatically labelled ex-commie, no matter what cause it might be. That makes progress even harder, since all accountable leftist (so - liberal) politicians are young and lack necessary authority (which comes together with silver hair or baldness).

Ah, and to make it sure. Left and right here aren't what they are in the US. PiS, at the moment biggest party, which is going to win the next elections is conservative (society) and socialistic (economy). Second biggest party, PO (current party) is centrist (society) and mildly socialistic (economy). Next comes SLD which is liberal (society) and ultra-socialistic (economy). PSL is a populistic party without a programme, focusing on the farmers only. Then there are some very small and irrelevant rightist parties, all conservative (society) and varying from ultra-liberal to ultra-social with even something slightly resembling national socialism or even soviet socialism included in the middle, when it comes to the economy. Don't even try to understand it.

Getting back on topic.

So, few recent years were really nice in terms of change, but it's bound to stop in like... three weeks (parliament elections). And since current party that holds the majority (ie. PO) screwed a big time over some international and economical decisions (full submission to the European Union both economically and socially, recent immigrant crisis included, as well as not protecting our own industry at all) blatantly lieing to the citizens, they're done. And so we can expect Poland going full catholic-retarded for at least 4 next years, pretty much like Hungary.. And in some way it already stopped since our current president is a member of PiS, so he's veto-ing everything

In some way I think it's good, because there is nothing easier to finally deal with PiS and churches faction, than giving them too much power, and oppurtunities to abuse it.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Ayattar

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

I had no idea I was surrounded by this many transfolk.

[Ayattar]

I had no idea I was surrounded by this many transfolk.

You mean here, on the forum or IRL?

[Monochromatic-Dragon]

not trans, gender queer here o/

I've never been able to not "get it" but I guess that goes with being a little non-normative myself. Someone very close to me, however, is one of those people who just can't understand it. Its frustrating, because I know how intelligent and open minded they are, but they just can't seem to be able to relate to someone being non-binary. Basically they are only able to validate my identity in my mind because "well technically she's still a female" :U

My philosophy is that I guess if you can't "get it" you can at least respect it & acknowledge that human beings are human beings no matter what, and they deserve that much respect & basic human rights at least.

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

You mean here, on the forum or IRL?

Forums.

[Jtrekkie]

Forums are a hodge podge. You are surrounded by a lot of things, and for the most part they are quiet. 

[Alexxx-Returns]

I'm not trans, and I don't know any trans people IRL.

People on this forum are the only trans people I really know, but they seem pretty great.

Dunno what more to say really.

[Sutekh_the_Steak]

I've never properly known anyone who is openly trans IRL but I just try to be as nice and friendly with everyone as I possibly can, always, and I succeed in that most of the time. I wouldn't change that for somebody just because they aren't the same gender as the one they were assigned at birth, that'd be a really crappy and disrespectful thing to do.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Sutekh_the_Steak

[Wolflich]

I was gonna make my own thread about this, but I feel like it's more appropriate to just post it here instead. 

Speaking of furries and LGBT, I've always been fascinated by the seemingly huge frequency of bi, gay, and trans people in the furry fandom. What is the allure? A lot of people like to answer that the fandom is generally very open and accepting, and while that may be true I think that the answer is a little deeper than that. I don't think most queer folks who are furries hop on the furry bandwagon just because the community is welcoming (although it does help), I think there is something intrinsically alluring about the concept of furries, or more specifically anthropomorphic characters to us. 

A random person I was talking to on omegle put it very well, and very simply too. I'll go ahead and paraphrase what they said to me. "Isn't it so much easier to express yourself through a character? LGBT people have a hard time expressing themselves in our society." I think that makes perfect sense. Having a fursona or an OC for a lot of people is just a way to be themselves. It explains why the fandom is made up of so many introverts and oddballs too. I think it's so cool, maybe even a little bit beautiful. I especially believe it because I've been to a furry convention before, and for those of you who haven't experienced it, the energy of a con is truly something to behold. It's almost like a natural high, all of these people coming together in a place where not only do you not need to feel ashamed about who you are and what you like, but you can wear it on your sleeve and have it all be normal for a little while. Goddamn, when it's all said and done I really do love the furry fandom. 

There must be more to it than that, though. Why specifically anthro animal characters? The combination of having characters and dressing up isn't limited to furries and while I've never exactly counted I wouldn't think furries are even the largest or best known group.

[Onnes]

There must be more to it than that, though. Why specifically anthro animal characters? The combination of having characters and dressing up isn't limited to furries and while I've never exactly counted I wouldn't think furries are even the largest or best known group.

My speculation has always been that the disproportionate attraction of socially marginalized groups to the furry fandom is due to the the fact that anthro characters are both human and not human. The characters tend to be essentially human in behavior but obviously distinct due to the whole animal thing. This distinction separates them from whatever fears and biases one has developed with regards to ordinary socialization. So in essence the anthro characters end up representing people apart from all the ugly mental baggage that we pick up over the years.

Who knows what the real reason is -- it could be purely cultural -- but over the time I've been familiar with the furry fandom, which must be over a decade at this point, it's always had unusual demographics relative to other fandoms, and it's natural to wonder why.

[Vallium]

Oddly enough people say I pass from what Ive posted, but thats ridiculous, its so much easier to pass online than in outside of it.

forums especially, its cool that nobody really has a gender here, just avatar and words and they are the person they are and the gender they are is only stated by the person.

i wish life was like that.

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

I know I'll likely get flak for this, but I think there's a good number of transgendered people online who only do so because it's pretty fashionable to be a minority these days.

Particularly common in teens. I can understand if someone above 23 or so says they're trans and have always felt that way because people tend to follow trends less the older they get, but when a 14yo kid says they're transfat LGBT orientation whatevers it's almost poignant.

I'm not necessarily saying you guys on the forums are that, but tumbr is full of those from what I've seen.

[Troj]

Well, it's fashionable to play at being a minority online or within a small circle of peers--especially when you get to tell others to "check [their] privilege" and all that jazz--but it's very different to actually be a minority in the real world, especially if you don't live in a liberal, relaxed, accepting place.

This "online roleplay" gets under my skin big time, because it serves to minimize and de-legitimize other people's very real struggles.

Transgender women face highest risk of violence

Transgender individuals face high suicide rates

 

[Vallium]

I know I'll likely get flak for this, but I think there's a good number of transgendered people online who only do so because it's pretty fashionable to be a minority these days.

Particularly common in teens. I can understand if someone above 23 or so says they're trans and have always felt that way because people tend to follow trends less the older they get, but when a 14yo kid says they're transfat LGBT orientation whatevers it's almost poignant.

I'm not necessarily saying you guys on the forums are that, but tumbr is full of those from what I've seen.

That is a huge issue, no doubt, but surely you dont mean teenagers in the real world cant be transgender? Im assuming you just mean the online fads people join to be not 'boring'

But it seems a lot of trans people, the ones that seem legitimate at least, have easily identified as such around 16-early 20's. I think if something was off your whole life you'd know it as soon as you could make adult decisions to identify it.I hear stories of people coming transgender later too, but I hear it was only a late arrival to whats been on their mind for ages. Its kind of sad that teenagers, no matter what concept of identity, will often get told "Its a phase, you'll get over it" and it could be true in some scenarios but that may not always be the case. In a couple more years of careful thought evaluating the idea it may very well be the case.

That said though, I think there's even further debate on the idea of "child transgenders", the occassional shock story in which a child says she/he wants to be the other gender, and parents help them follow through. Good for them if thats the case, because if they had not reached puberty they'd probably live life the closest possible to their gender. On the other end though, I hear people get upset that child transgenders exist, claiming children do not have concepts or ideas such as these and were influenced by progressive parents.

Edited October 3, 2015 by WolfNightV4X1

[Lucyfish]

Yeah, there definitely are bandwagoners. The only problem is sometimes people are a bit to quick to slap this label on some kids.

[Troj]

I think the best bet is to listen to the child, and then proceed prudently.

If a child says, "I feel like a boy," or "I want to be a boy," instead of arguing with that or ignoring it, ask them what it means to be a boy, why they feel like a boy, and what they'd like to do with those feelings.

Anyone who signs their kid up for hormones and surgery the minute they express a desire to be the opposite sex is clearly jumping the gun--but, I have yet to hear of any parent who's done that.

The ideal first step is to let the child dress and present as their desired sex, and then see what evolves from there.

[Ratical]

For nontrans people:

What do you think of them? Do you have any transgender people in your life?

I look at it the same way as any other kind of identity: if it makes you happy and it isn't hurting anyway then I don't have an issue with it. I only really know one trans person IRL, but she's very likeable. Most people seem to want to support her or just be friends with her because she's just a jovial person to be around. That's the inner contentment coming out, and if being a guy would have locked that in it would have deprived all of us of it.

So I guess it's like removing the shell and letting the sweet cashew out. But don't eat it, because that's cannibalism. Saying they're a metaphorical cashew will not hold up in court,

[Kaedal]

For nontrans people:

What do you think of them? Do you have any transgender people in your life?

I honestly understand that some people have dissenting opinions about it or maybe don't "get it"; I've seen other threads brushing this topic go the way of bloodshed, so can we avoid that here?

I treat them as anyone else. Spending time around transpeople certainly helped me understand better, and I just give what support I can to those of my friends that are trans. I think they're brilliant people that have different reasons for not feeling comfortable, and I respect them and I do whatever is in my power to make them feel better.

[Ayattar]

Well, 14 years old is a bit too young in my opinion, so I agree. I remember that at that age I only finished developing my first truly independent opinions. 16 tho is a quite responsible age for at least some decisions. But I'm not really sure if it's good enough for this one. After all, all that hormonal chaos is confusing on it's own, not to mention all the rebelling. So I think it's safer to wait till at least 18.

Edited October 3, 2015 by Ayattar

[shiy0]

i'm not trans but also i don't know why anybody should be against it. you guys are just doing your thing in the end like everybody else and if you are not okay with the gender your born with for whatever reason you should get all the help you need to change it.

[Naesaki]

It really is a shame schools don't educate more on the subject matter, honestly being apart of these forums has taught me more about transgender folk than the government and education systems ever will.

I only know one transgender person irl, born a woman, wants to transition but is currently is unable due to various life difficulties, but still tells everyone to refer to her as a woman, she feels herself that she can't call herself a man until the physical process begins despite feeling like a man on the inside in mind and soul, she also wants to wait until she has decided on the new name she will take on once she begins the transition.

[Kalmor]

It really is a shame schools don't educate more on the subject matter, honestly being apart of these forums has taught me more about transgender folk than the government and education systems ever will.

Mhm! Our sex/social education classes just completely missed it, even though the UK's sex education classes are indeed a lot more progressive than US ones.

[GreenReaper]

A few years ago I had a neutral-to-positive view of the trans community. In my years in the fandom I'd accrued many trans friends, online and in RL, some of whom may have felt I was "one of them" - I'm male, but I have very long hair (which has, at times, been home to a few rainbow-hued hair-clips), and I don't exhibit many overtly masculine aspects.

All hell broke loose once it became known that I felt that: a) pronouns express an observer's belief about a person, b) the pronouns 'he' and 'she' imply that a person is physically male or female respectively, and therefore c) it'd be wrong for me to knowingly use a pronoun inconsistent with my beliefs about a person's physical sex, even if they wanted me to. Within the space of a few weeks, I lost several friends and acquaintances who were unwilling to tolerate this - or to accept the compromise that I would use 'they', or a person's name, rather than a sex-linked pronoun, if I knew them to be trans.

I found this dispiriting. In my eyes I have never been an enemy of the trans community; I support the idea that people should be able to become whatever sex they wish - or none! - and I don't particularly care for the gender binary. But I also don't feel it's right to imply to others that someone is a particular sex until they are.

A big part of this could be put down to the conflation of [physical] sex and [social/cultural] gender. These are vastly different concepts; for a start, gender may be evaluated differently by each individual observer ('you're such a girl/guy [in my cultural context]"). Basing pronouns on gender is asking for trouble, because this observation won't be consistent - and you can't just tell someone their opinion is "not right" and expect them to agree.

The approach taken by Naesaki's friend makes a lot of sense. You might well ask close friends and family to "call me [X^pronoun] amongst each other" if you're becoming X^sex, since both you and they will have to get used to you being called that by observers after transition, and nobody will be misled. Somewhere along the line, people started thinking that being called X^pronoun by everyone (or acting in a way similar to other X^sex people in a society's gender model) was equivalent to being X^sex, and those who demurred were attempting to be hurtful - not just truthful.

Edited October 3, 2015 by GreenReaper

[Gator]

um.  pronouns are used to reflect a person's gender.  when you call someone "he" or "she" based on how they look, you are guessing their gender based on your perceptions.  this is fine, and no one should get angry at someone for not knowing without being told, but if that person corrects you, then it means you guessed wrong and it's time to change which pronouns you use.  it is very rude to refuse to change, or to say you'd rather not use a pronoun at all than respect their gender identity.  you don't get to decide what someone else's gender is, and their biological sex is none of your business.  whether or not their outward appearance conforms to your idea of male or female is irrelevant. 

 

on the OP... i don't think much about transgender people one way or the other.  they got just as much capacity to be either a good person or an asshole as anybody else.  unless it's hurting other people, i don't care what you do. 

as for the question of whether i have/had transgender people in my life, yes.  and i'll leave it at that for now.