Toxic Victim Mentalities

[Red Lion]

One I see a lot and have even been on the receiving end of a couple of time is the "testing your partner" thing that some people, usually women, like to do. Specifically, they send you a pic, ask if x is attractive, and you just KNOW it's a trap. On the surface this seems kind of trival, even something to joke about or dismiss as a dumb girlfriend thing. But honestly, it sends off a red flag for me. Because it's always a symptom of a much bigger issue.  For one, you're being set up to fail. You can say "sure, that person is attractive" and this leads to yelling, crushed feelings and jealousy. If you go the other way and deny that X is attractive you're just going to get called a liar. From some types of people "Is this person attractive" is not a real question, it's a way to instigate drama. It's a way to manufacture a situation that lets them be the victim while you are the victimizer. They are looking to be upset and they are hoping that they'll get reassurances and apologies. In my experience giving in to that and giving them what they want always leads to them doing it more often, until they're asking more than you can ever give them. Because it's never enough, it never ends and ultimately you're just feeding a monster. 

I find the general desire to be a victim in any scenario kind of unhealthy. Because to make that a reality you have to make someone else an abuser. Even if the other party did nothing unreasonable, these people find ways to spin a situation so that they always come out as the hurt party. One ex managed to try and turn my breaking up with them into an abuser/victim scenario. She always made me feel like she was settling, like she thought she was too unattractive to get the kind of person she really wanted so being with me was a better alternative than being alone. I heard "I'm terrified of being alone" way more often than "I love you" or "I like being with you." So after being in that dynamic started killing my confidence and straining my ability to find any kind of joy in the relationship I called it quits. She tried to guilt me into staying, implying that it was morally irresponsible of me to leave. When I wasn't swayed she switched tactics and got mean, accusing me of forcing her to repress her emotions and pretend to be something she wasn't to win my affection. It almost worked to, she had me wondering if I was the toxic person in this relationship. But feeling guilty and questioning myself isn't something that will ever motivate me to stay with someone. 

I always assumed that with time and new relationships I'd eventually forget about all the past bullshit but I can't help feeling wary whenever anyone tells me they're afraid of being alone. Fear of loneliness is valid. I don't think it's inherently an unreasonable fear, but now I find myself wondering, when people say that they are afraid to be alone, if it's an admission that their fear outweighs their genuine desire to be with me and I find myself feeling the urge to start running before I end up trapped. I expect everyone to have insecurities but some people like to have those insecurities fed and it doesn't take long before they start to leech you of all your time, energy and mental wellness. 

Idk what the real point of this thread is, just to vent I guess? Anyway, feel free to share your own experiences and thoughts. 

[WileyWarWeasel]

Another classic is "does this make me look fat?" ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Seriously with such people the best you can do is cut off contact with them, don't let them drag you down.

[Vae]

The best way I've found to stave off Professional Victims is just to agree with their attention-seeking bullshit.
"Yes, you look fat. Yes, you're being annoying. Yes, I don't like you when you're being annoying by doing this."

Sure, they may throw a tantrum about it, but fuck em. If you want my honest opinion on something in a calm manner, I will give it to you. But don't try to manipulate me into telling you what you want to hear. It just doesn't work that way, and I'm quite the asshole when I feel like I'm being forced into something stupid.

[Troj]

This is all crazy, unhealthy stuff in my book.

People should be able to fantasize, dream about, or check out other people without coming under fire from their significant other. You can have fleeting attractions or superficial crushes on people without betraying your mate or loving them any less.

And if you're wrestling with serious, persistent self-hatred or body dysphoria issues, you should get a therapist, because it's uncool to consistently corner your mate and manipulate or guilt them into assuring you that all is well when you fundamentally don't believe it.

 

 

[MortimusMaximus]

Honestly, I see that kind of shit rampantly romanticized, specifically (sorry if it seems insensitive) with straight couples. I fucking hate it. And I hate toxic monogamy culture in general. Not saying monogamy in and of itself is bad, but there's a laundry list of shit that monogamous people tend to find romantic or funny that isn't that at all. Most of it is toxic or harmful. That is things like the normalization of jealousy as an indication of love, the idea that intense love is enough to overcome other incompatibilities, the idea that commitment is synonymous with exclusivity, the idea that love should be sufficient enough that your partner ceases to be attracted to anyone else, the idea that your partner should be your source for everything and if they aren't, the relationship isn't that good... The list goes on. And I guess to further it, it doesn't necessarily extend to just straight people, it exists in queer and poly spaces, too, but again, it seems more heavily romanticized from what I've seen in straight communities and a lot of my straight friends dealing with it more than anything else.

I think the more important thing you can do with any relationship is be upfront about things. Communicate, even if it's not something that your partner wants to hear. I feel like in relationships, monogamous or not, communication is key. None of that shit where you're supposed to read minds and figure out through hints or tests. That's straight up manipulative. And much like anything, you should be able to exist as two separate people outside of the relationship. Another trope I get really sick of is people romanticizing the idea that you're a half searching for your half until you're whole with another person. No. You're a whole! You can exist without another person just fine! Love isn't the ultimate goal and it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be in love for life to be successful.

Anyway. Rambling I guess. I just. Have a lot of feelings about that shit.

[Red Lion]

On 12/25/2017 at 2:04 PM, MortimusMaximus said:

Honestly, I see that kind of shit rampantly romanticized, specifically (sorry if it seems insensitive) with straight couples. I fucking hate it. And I hate toxic monogamy culture in general. Not saying monogamy in and of itself is bad, but there's a laundry list of shit that monogamous people tend to find romantic or funny that isn't that at all. Most of it is toxic or harmful. That is things like the normalization of jealousy as an indication of love, the idea that intense love is enough to overcome other incompatibilities, the idea that commitment is synonymous with exclusivity, the idea that love should be sufficient enough that your partner ceases to be attracted to anyone else, the idea that your partner should be your source for everything and if they aren't, the relationship isn't that good... The list goes on. And I guess to further it, it doesn't necessarily extend to just straight people, it exists in queer and poly spaces, too, but again, it seems more heavily romanticized from what I've seen in straight communities and a lot of my straight friends dealing with it more than anything else.

I think the more important thing you can do with any relationship is be upfront about things. Communicate, even if it's not something that your partner wants to hear. I feel like in relationships, monogamous or not, communication is key. None of that shit where you're supposed to read minds and figure out through hints or tests. That's straight up manipulative. And much like anything, you should be able to exist as two separate people outside of the relationship. Another trope I get really sick of is people romanticizing the idea that you're a half searching for your half until you're whole with another person. No. You're a whole! You can exist without another person just fine! Love isn't the ultimate goal and it doesn't necessarily mean you have to be in love for life to be successful.

Anyway. Rambling I guess. I just. Have a lot of feelings about that shit.

I 100% agree with all of this.

Tbh I don't really do monogamy anymore, it hasn't really worked for me in years. I've never cheated on anyone but every serious monogamous relationship I was in seemed to have these ridiculous rules. No porn, no looking at other people, I'm pansexual so every friend of any gender was treated like a potential threat. It never lasted long because I put no value on sex beyond being a basic need like food. It's completely separate from my emotional or romantic interests and I don't even feel sexual attraction in a conventional kind of way. It's more, meet someone, really get to know and like them, attraction blooms. But my partners always seemed obsessed with sex, not so much in having it, but in sexual availability and sexual attraction. Like their whole sense of value revolved around how bangable they were. 

And if I'm totally honest I value friendship over romance. I would rather spend the rest of my life with my best friend than any romantic partner I've ever had. I mean, the initial romantic feelings tend to die off with time and if you're not left with a deep bond after that what do you have? Most of my life takes place outside of the bedroom and I don't like a relationship to revolve around sex and attraction. I feel like those two elements are always over emphasized in conventional romance. Romantic love in general is hyped as the ultimate life goal and I think that perception has legitimately wrecked some people of their ability to function without a partner. 

[Vae]

1 hour ago, Red Lion said:

And if I'm totally honest I value friendship over romance.

I mean, I don't know how your relationships have functioned.
But you can both in the same person.

[Red Lion]

1 hour ago, Vae said:

I mean, I don't know how your relationships have functioned.
But you can both in the same person.

Yes, I wasn't trying to imply that they can't.

Though I don't always require romance in a partnership. To clarify, most of my het relationships have treated the two like they were separate entities. Friendship is what you have with your buddies and romance is what you have with your SO. My queer relationships have been a lot more chill though they felt less conventionally "romantic". There was no emphasis on anniversaries, dating norms, gender roles and other things I had assumed didn't actually matter but mattered a lot to my straight partners.

 

[MortimusMaximus]

12 hours ago, Red Lion said:

I 100% agree with all of this.

Tbh I don't really do monogamy anymore, it hasn't really worked for me in years. I've never cheated on anyone but every serious monogamous relationship I was in seemed to have these ridiculous rules. No porn, no looking at other people, I'm pansexual so every friend of any gender was treated like a potential threat. It never lasted long because I put no value on sex beyond being a basic need like food. It's completely separate from my emotional or romantic interests and I don't even feel sexual attraction in a conventional kind of way. It's more, meet someone, really get to know and like them, attraction blooms. But my partners always seemed obsessed with sex, not so much in having it, but in sexual availability and sexual attraction. Like their whole sense of value revolved around how bangable they were. 

And if I'm totally honest I value friendship over romance. I would rather spend the rest of my life with my best friend than any romantic partner I've ever had. I mean, the initial romantic feelings tend to die off with time and if you're not left with a deep bond after that what do you have? Most of my life takes place outside of the bedroom and I don't like a relationship to revolve around sex and attraction. I feel like those two elements are always over emphasized in conventional romance. Romantic love in general is hyped as the ultimate life goal and I think that perception has legitimately wrecked some people of their ability to function without a partner. 

Absolutely. I also don't do monogamous relationships, either. I have only ever been in one so far, but my parents were also the kind of people that have been in a toxic relationship like that and I think as a whole, kind of put me off of that kind of thing. The best thing I did for myself was realize that relationships didn't actually have to be like that. I think that relationships are a bit more complex than what is emphasized and the parts that aren't heteronormative, even if healthy, are demonized as something bad. Like having multiple partners, for instance, or viewing sex + commitment to someone as two separate entities (as I honestly wish it would be). It kind of bothers me how polyamory is equated to "cheating" when I talk to people. It's like... No, cheating is when you don't talk about shit and do it without your partner knowing. I DUNNO man. Rambly rambly, but I guess what I'm saying is relationships have a lot of moving parts I wish would be acknowledged.

I also feel like it's hard for me to put something of value down for some of these things because like... For a long time I though I was aromantic on the basis that I get really close to people but I don't know what is romantic?? Either way, I'm in a relationship with my two best friends and it's been a pretty good run (three years in Jan). It's been an open relationship so both myself and they are able to play with people so long as we all communicate about it.

[Victor-933]

1 hour ago, Olive said:

 

[WileyWarWeasel]

@Olive I entirely agree. In fact testosterone boosters should be bought with bitcoins (converted to real money and stored on a debit account first) for extra freedom points.

@Victor-933 Your reaction indicates that you are a military veteran. Do you feel like you are being attacked, that you are perhaps the true victim in all of this?

Well now you know what the real answer is ^__^