Zaush in some hot water again

[WileyWarWeasel]

@BattlechiliFreedom of speech is indeed important. That also means that people should be free to express both negative and positive discussion about taboo subjects, even if it means occasionally yelling at people like Zaush.

AFAIK Zaush isn't in legal trouble as there's no proof that he uses actual CP in the process of creating his stuff whether art or stories. It is understandable though that many would be suspicious of him given his field and his comments and voicing that suspicion also comes under freedom of speech.

Unless people try to burn him at the stake or engage in libel (eg claiming he views CP without proof) they should be free to voice their opinion of him and talk about his activities that are publicly known.

34 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

As I said before: "Do video games cause actual violence?" and all that jazz.

I don't know about violence, but I do know that Tetris causes excessive bricklaying. Behold ;V

[Revates]

11 hours ago, Troj said:

To be succinct, based on what I've heard about him over time, I wouldn't trust Zaush any further than I could throw him, personally. Your mileage is welcome to differ.

Intentions, ethics, and legalities aside, the exchange he had with that client was just plain creepy in my book.

I think part of the reason I wouldn't trust him is because to me what he says publicly is different to what his behavior and actions say about him, imo. Which I think aligns very closely to what you've said in many ways.

Also thank you furriend, you have the best essays btw. But your succient posts are beautiful. I give you an A

10 hours ago, Zaraphayx said:

All it took was a framing of the question as a homework assignment and immediately someone talks like a human being.

Fucking incredible.

Rev you're a saint.

I've been attending all my posting classes to improve everyday.

43 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

341 words.

So, I had to give you a D- on the marking rubric since you failed to meet the task description. But in your defence it was a step up from 950 words.

[TrishaCat]

42 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

Freedom of speech is indeed important. That also means that people should be free to express both negative and positive discussion about taboo subjects, even if it means occasionally yelling at people like Zaush.

AFAIK Zaush isn't in legal trouble as there's no proof that he uses actual CP in the process of creating his stuff whether art or stories. It is understandable though that many would be suspicious of him given his field and his comments and voicing that suspicion also comes under freedom of speech.

Unless people try to burn him at the stake or engage in libel (eg claiming he views CP without proof) they should be free to voice their opinion of him and talk about his activities that are publicly known.

Oh yeah, if I sounded like I'm saying he should be immune to criticism then I apologize, as that's not what I mean to imply. A lot of people's opinions come from ideas that he draws something more vile than he actually does imo is all, and people actually went out of their way to try and report him to the FBI and actually did go around saying that he views and owns CP. From the get-go most people thought the content in his conversations was CP, and that's a view that spread around even after he explained otherwise. It took much verification to explain otherwise, as people seemed to want to assume the worst (due to past history). The claims of him being a pedo come off as extreme overreactions and also possibly libelous in nature due to it being within the realm of art, and the quotes taken from his conversations frequently disregard the commission context with which the situation all occurred. People are basically attacking him for thought crimes regarding fictional content, and that rubs me the wrong way for the aforementioned reasons, something I see as a threat to icky art in addition to the desire to cause Zaush trouble.

Its especially weird Zaush in particular gets this attention when the whole of Inkbunny exists, which leads me to believe that people really want to beat down on Zaush in particular for whatever reason, and admittedly that's not something I'm knowledgeable enough about to understand why.

[WileyWarWeasel]

49 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

Oh yeah, if I sounded like I'm saying he should be immune to criticism then I apologize, as that's not what I mean to imply. A lot of people's opinions come from ideas that he draws something more vile than he actually does imo is all, and people actually went out of their way to try and report him to the FBI and actually did go around saying that he views and owns CP. From the get-go most people thought the content in his conversations was CP, and that's a view that spread around even after he explained otherwise. It took much verification to explain otherwise, as people seemed to want to assume the worst (due to past history). The claims of him being a pedo come off as extreme overreactions and also possibly libelous in nature due to it being within the realm of art, and the quotes taken from his conversations frequently disregard the commission context with which the situation all occurred. People are basically attacking him for thought crimes regarding fictional content, and that rubs me the wrong way for the aforementioned reasons, something I see as a threat to icky art in addition to the desire to cause Zaush trouble.

Its especially weird Zaush in particular gets this attention when the whole of Inkbunny exists, which leads me to believe that people really want to beat down on Zaush in particular for whatever reason, and admittedly that's not something I'm knowledgeable enough about to understand why.

Sounds like the people involved need to find out what is actually going on, otherwise we get all sorts of assumptions and accusations flying around and needless drama being generated because of that.

Then again it is the furry community we're talking about.

[Vae]

2 hours ago, Battlechili said:

seeing people yell at Zaush about cartoon porn upset me

Of course it does, because your tastes apparently align with his.
Of course you're not gonna want something to be attacked that you, yourself, are apparently interested in.
This is common goddamn human defensive practice.

Doesn't make it any less gross or pedophilia tho.

[Zaraphayx]

"Even though I am personally invested in this discussion my interests in defending the position I'm defending are entirely academic I assure you :^)"

[Tsuujou]

On 3/22/2018 at 12:59 PM, Troj said:

AGED UP CHARACTER DONUT JUDGE ME GUYS

I didnt see this.

I'm fucking weak right now. 

[Troj]

9 hours ago, Revates said:

I think part of the reason I wouldn't trust him is because to me what he says publicly is different to what his behavior and actions say about him, imo. Which I think aligns very closely to what you've said in many ways.

Yep. He just generally smells like a predator to me. He just comes across as somebody who takes advantage of people, and feels entitled to do so, and he always ducks and dodges whenever he's called out for something.

Sexual and other predators have a grand tradition of trying to dodge accountability with heapin' helpings of  rationalization ("It's different when it's me because..."), lofty-sounding rhetoric ("muh freeze peach"), gaslighting ("It was just a joke; it didn't mean anything,"), and finger-pointing.

Really, more than the particular kinks or fetishes, what worries me about folks is when they have a particular tendency to always justify, rationalize, and defend their own behavior at all costs, because that's when shit gets dangerous.

 

 

[QT Melon]

11 hours ago, Zaraphayx said:

"Even though I am personally invested in this discussion my interests in defending the position I'm defending are entirely academic I assure you :^)"

 

Eh in all fairness, he just sounds like a weeaboo meme. I mean so much of anime is lewd with characters that are really young teens or sometimes younger.

Maybe Japan has a rampant pedophilia population so they stopped having kids to molest. *shrugs*

 

[Tsuujou]

2 hours ago, QT Melon said:

Eh in all fairness, he just sounds like a weeaboo meme. I mean so much of anime is lewd with characters that are really young teens or sometimes younger.

Maybe Japan has a rampant pedophilia population so they stopped having kids to molest. *shrugs*

 

The sheer amount of it weirds me the fuck out. And they shove that shit in stuff I've liked for a long time which is actually legitimately annoying.

[Vae]

I thought it was well-known and well-documented that Japan had both a pedophilia problem, and a sexual-assault problem?

Maymays or animes or not, that's not really something you want to emulate with yourself.

[Victor-933]

1 hour ago, Tsuujou said:

The sheer amount of it weirds me the fuck out. And they shove that shit in stuff I've liked for a long time which is actually legitimately annoying.

Japan has always been fucked up. Remember, this is the same country that created tentacle porn.

[QT Melon]

On 3/28/2018 at 10:17 PM, Battlechili said:

Its especially weird Zaush in particular gets this attention when the whole of Inkbunny exists, which leads me to believe that people really want to beat down on Zaush in particular for whatever reason, and admittedly that's not something I'm knowledgeable enough about to understand why.

This is mainly because he has been sexually abusive to female members in the past. So it's a grudge match to get him nailed on something. Like I said before my main irritation is people hard up on nailing him for something they rather pass rumors as law or make assumption truth. It tends to impede on actual investigations that could have nailed him for some of the shit he's pulled.

[Zaraphayx]

11 hours ago, QT Melon said:

Eh in all fairness, he just sounds like a weeaboo meme. I mean so much of anime is lewd with characters that are really young teens or sometimes younger.

Maybe Japan has a rampant pedophilia population so they stopped having kids to molest. *shrugs*

 

Uh I'm not even really making fun of the creepy pedo interest as much as I am making fun of the idea that a person with a very personal interest in a controversial subject can take a principled, impartial stance on said interest.

But sure thanks for the "it's normal for weebs to be creepy so what's the big deal???" take I never thought of it that way before.

[QT Melon]

4 hours ago, Zaraphayx said:

But sure thanks for the "it's normal for weebs to be creepy so what's the big deal???" take I never thought of it that way before.

I'm glad you're Rei Ayanami's hero we definitely need to keep those drawings safe from harmful comments

We should keep people from sexualizing cartoons, that's some creepy shit.

Yeah, you go live in your bubble, and be as chickenshit as I've seen the rest of the community and not actually do the right thing and report actual child porn. Have to go through the apathy of people in the community that "well if I saw the actual porn I shouldn't report it because they may come down on me too". I already had to see it, have my heart broken seeing actual children being abused and report it instead of hiding and pretending not to have seen it.

You people are something else.

 

[Zaraphayx]

Just now, QT Melon said:

I'm glad you're Rei Ayanami's hero we definitely need to keep those drawings safe from harmful comments

We should keep people from sexualizing cartoons, that's some creepy shit.

Yeah, you go live in your bubble, and be as chickenshit as I've seen the rest of the community and not actually do the right thing and report actual child porn. Have to go through the apathy of people in the community that "well if I saw the actual porn I shouldn't report it because they may come down on me too". I already had to see it, have my heart broken seeing actual children being abused and report it instead of hiding and pretending not to have seen it.

You people are something else.

 

What the fuck are you talking about retard.

I'm not calling for anyone's head because they look at cartoon child porn. I'm mocking the notion that you can be impartial about an issue where you have a stake in the outcome.

I've played a role in excising two sexual predators from this community; go ramble about your heart breaking to someone who cares you sanctimonious hippie.

 

[QT Melon]

4 minutes ago, Zaraphayx said:

I'm not calling for anyone's head because they look at cartoon child porn. I'm mocking the notion that you can be impartial about an issue where you have a stake in the outcome.

Vested? He's discussing whether or not someone is an actual predator based off the cartoons. He admittedly stated he doesn't know enough about Zaush to make the call. The only "outcome" is if Zaush is an actual predator or not, or he should be banned off FA if he violates policy. Battle wouldn't be necessarily vested unless he's a big fan of Zaush and that's his only source of where he gets art?

[Zaraphayx]

6 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

Vested? He's discussing whether or not someone is an actual predator based off the cartoons. He admittedly stated he doesn't know enough about Zaush to make the call. The only "outcome" is if Zaush is an actual predator or not, or he should be banned off FA if he violates policy. Battle wouldn't be necessarily vested unless he's a big fan of Zaush and that's his only source of where he gets art?

On 3/28/2018 at 8:30 PM, Battlechili said:

My beliefs and values are the result of an adamant desire to protect art, free speech, and creativity whilst holding onto a belief that reality and fiction are far jumps from each other. I stand by everything I've said here, as I truly believe that a fondness for something in fiction has no bearing on reality. Feel free to look up and read comic author Neil Gaiman's (Coraline, The Sandman, etc) online journal entry "Why defend freedom of icky speech" where he talks about things like "lolicon" and such and explains why such should be defended in a much better way than I could ever hope to convey. 

In this regard, my posts on an anime forum have no relevance with regards to my arguments.

I realize this might sound like I'm trying to shift away or shrug what might appear to be damning evidence of a bias; but I'm just not sure what I'm supposed to really comment, since my opinions remain relatively the same regardless of my posts about cartoon porn on MAL. In fact the one saying "its okay" was just a lazy retelling of what I've been saying here that's a result of the fact that the site has "Is loli immoral threads?" once every month or so and they usually go on for 5 or 6 pages before just being reinvigorated again on the next month (in fact there's one right now in the Anime Discussion section), so it gets tiring reposting the exact same arguments over and over again.

I just did so here because I had a brief moment of not feeling depressed and lazy and because seeing people yell at Zaush about cartoon porn upset me.  I just can't stand the idea of criminalizing thought crimes or acting like cartoons have the capability of being immoral or reflect some kind of dark inner moral compass on the creator of said art. The idea has always been insane to me. As I said before: "Do video games cause actual violence?" and all that jazz.

 

[QT Melon]

Yeah where did he say he was exactly impartial because he mentions it in his paragraph...
 

Quote

 

In this regard, my posts on an anime forum have no relevance with regards to my arguments.

I realize this might sound like I'm trying to shift away or shrug what might appear to be damning evidence of a bias;

 

Good for you for pointing out something he already said?

So since I already read that and knew he even conceded as much I thought you weren't being redundant and actually was trying to be witty and snarky on something else. 

My bad, I overestimated you then.

[Zaraphayx]

1 minute ago, QT Melon said:

Yeah where did he say he was exactly impartial because he mentions it in his paragraph...
 

Good for you for pointing out something he already said?

So since I already read that and knew he even conceded as much I thought you weren't being redundant and actually was trying to be witty and snarky on something else. 

I'm not going to sit here and hold your hand through this; he's making the case that his position is founded entirely on principle in spite of his bias.

You aren't very good at thinking, so try something else next time.

An appropriate response would be this:

"I, Arshes, am a big mouth breathing retard, I am sorry that I tried to imply that Zara, who has a huge brain and is way better than me in every worldly way, wants to ban my precious lolis, which are not in any way creepy and totally fine, furthermore I admit to being a virtue signalling cretin with my emotionally-laced grandstanding about child abuse when I really just wanted to Be Right Online. I am ashamed and will repent my ways henseforth, please furrgive me, I am unworthy"

Alternatively just fuck off, dumbass.
 

[QT Melon]

To which again he admits to not being impartial. Doesn't seem that hard. To that it's like so what. You can dismiss it because he is biased, read the other information he posted from people that are not biased. Move on.

Since the discussion asked pretty much asked him to extrapolate, he did.

 

[Zaraphayx]

1 minute ago, QT Melon said:

To which again he admits to not being impartial. Doesn't seem that hard. To that it's like so what. You can dismiss it because he is biased, read the other information he posted from people that are not biased. Move on.

Since the discussion asked pretty much asked him to extrapolate, he did.

 

Obviously I'm unconvinced by his explanations otherwise I wouldn't have made a snide remark about them, put two and two together you chimp.

Nice attempt to sidestep the fact that you put words into my mouth to claim moral superiority and grandstand though, why don't you show some contrition for your carelessness? Do you have the moral fortitude to do that Ghandi???
 

[QT Melon]

Ok, glad you were unconvinced and decided to be redundant. You done arm flailing?

[Zaraphayx]

19 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

Ok, glad you were unconvinced and decided to be redundant. You done arm flailing?

You could probably do with a little more arm flailing you fat nerd.

 

[QT Melon]

Be more witty foo' that's why I usually enjoy your rants. 

[Zaraphayx]

Sure thing Mr. T

[Vae]

Where in the actual, literal fuck are we getting the idea to point fingers at people in this community to "be more proactive" about reporting shit like child porn, when this is just a discussion topic?
What do we have to do with this?
We aren't the people who had these conversations, or the people Zaush actually hurt.
Why is this being used in a shitty way to excuse pedophilia in art?

There's like no fucking evidence present to assume that anyone here wouldn't report actual child abuse if it was encountered.
So why is this even an excuse being waved for anything in regards to the discussion here?

[Victor-933]

what in the name of fuck is even going on anymore

[Zaraphayx]

[WileyWarWeasel]

4 hours ago, Victor-933 said:

what in the name of fuck is even going on anymore

Accusations and assumptions flying around, furries deliver again.

[Crazy Lee]

Wow, 2 pages... walls of text... nope! Maybe later.

 

On 3/22/2018 at 1:22 PM, Vae said:

I had this discussion with a friend regarding both "looks 10, but is actually 400" and feral characters recently.

If you're getting off to a child's body, or a feral animal that speaks,
that is still what turns you on.
Those are still the forms that you are choosing to sexualize, despite having the option to draw a young-proportioned character more adult-framed, or a feral-proportioned character with more human physical characteristics.

You are still, by the definition of the terms, a pedophile / zoophile.

 

Funny you bring this up. It reminds me of that little girl character from the Dragon Maid anime, Kanna or whatever. She's 500 years old, but appears as a 10 year old in the anime. And she is lewded like crazy, even in the anime itself (which is no surprise). And some excuse it like "Well she's 500". Still in the body of a 10 year old girl. You're still lusting over the body, not the mind. Mentally she still acts like a child as well.

[Xaende]

That guy has always seemed to feed off notoriety. I remember him from the early 2000s, and not being particularly impressed. Stuff like this is what keeps him in the spotlight. The old "no such thing as bad publicity" phenomenon, I suppose. Rumors and scandal seem to follow wherever he goes.  Gotta wonder how much of it is intentional, to drum up business.

Disclaimer: I don't know much about the guy. Just what I've heard in passing over the years. Hopefully, the negative things said about him are just rumor and he isn't actually a rapist or into CP.

[WALFTEAM]

Adam Wan raped someone and boasted about it on Twitter when he was found out - and he was found out against the victim's will through a hack of FA that's never been solved. Other women independently came out with their own sexual misconduct reports before and after. Nobody worth anything in the subculture defends his actions or likes him, except for his half-dozen or so artist peers that somehow continue to do so and the 1,058 (at current count) glow-bathed masturbators who support him on Patreon. Wait - funny, that's both bigger and more influential than altfurry and all the known dogfuckers put together. But I digress.

Over the years between 2010 and now he's twisted that notoriety into what the kids call a Brand; the cub porn was simply an accessory product line at first. Now it's all he's got. 

Part of me still believes that putting icky sexual fantasies on paper is not in and of itself evil. But it starts getting fucked up when a dude with multiple harassment and rape accusations independently levied against him decides he's gonna go whole hog on the cub and the incest with a wink and a nudge in order to chase that furry porn dollar.

[Faust]

I take the general view that something that would be disturbing in real life should look disturbing on paper.

[TrishaCat]

>this was revived

why tho

I want to forget

On 9/29/2018 at 1:01 AM, WALFTEAM said:

Adam Wan raped someone and boasted about it on Twitter when he was found out

Do we actually know this happened? I've heard of the accusations occurring but was there ever any confirmation of them?

[WALFTEAM]

I saw the accusations roll out pretty much as they happened. There is a lot of material that just plain doesn't exist anymore, or is incomplete, but the gist of it is still there. A "conspiracy" to level false allegations against Z-Dogg simply does not make sense given the sequence of events much less mesh with how the victim(s) behaved. Coupled with some independent reports of Wan creeping on the ladies that were made beforehand(this is probably the only surviving one), it kind of sealed the deal.

The worst thing, the thing that keeps me ranting about this like a madman, was watching people just clam up and give up. Dragoneer almost sounded like he was buying it in the PMs and then reversed course once everything was out in the open, even though his S/O at the time said that Wan had creeped on her too (both of course retracted that later). There were supposed to be even more women coming out about Z-Dogg's nastiness but many of the artists chose to keep their mouth shut, probably in the interests of deflecting backlash. Ferality got basically ratfucked because powerful people in the subculture who could have or were going to back them up decided to not rock the boat after all. The message to anyone else who's been hurt or abused by some "popufur" was loud and clear.

The furry subculture prides itself on being better than this when it proves time and time again that it isn't. I want it to be better than this, as does everyone else, but the evils of outside society keep creeping in and doing tremendous damage, and it's happening more and more. It's rightfully regarded as a crisis when some regular furry douchebag is revealed to be violently raping dogs or heiling hitler, but it seems to just be "drama" if that same douchebag doing shit just as evil can draw cartoon animal wang on model. Because that makes people money.

[WALFTEAM]

12 years affter it stopped mattering

https://twitter.com/Zaush/status/1660798098942345217

[TrishaCat]

Yknow what considering the Zaush rapist allegations I can't be upset by that.

The reason for it is due to the new 2.7 FA rule update (awful rule update), but good riddance I suppose. 

[WALFTEAM]

They did it to distract from that - what has to be the dumbest rule update on the subject in years (impressive in and of itself). They also popped Jasonafex. Neither of these people care about being on FA anymore and their haters moved on.

It's just amusing that Z-Dogg's FA account - itself a pointless signifier - has outlasted his victim, fd_2, Vivisector and probably even KF.