Rant: Using "Straight", "White", or "Cis" as an Insult

[AshleyAshes]

OK, thanks for clarifying, Ashley. (I was enjoying my image of people insulting each other like children on a schoolyard, though. "You're white!" "No, YOU'RE white!" "You're the whitest!")

This is a tricky matter, because there are times when "You're an X, so you may lack insight into Y," is an accurate and reasonable statement, and times when it's insulting, patronizing, and dismissive.

If you spend enough time with other people, and/or invest genuine energy into researching and understanding them, your appreciation of their issues can potentially be as nuanced (or pretty close) as any insider to that group.

Individuals who invest time in genuinely understanding the plights of other individuals in different demographics are rarely, if ever, the individuals arguing on the internet that their sexuality, gender identity, issues of racial injustice, state of poverty, fandom, or really ANYTHING, is just a crock of shit and not real.  For example, the Transgender People thread has three kinds of people in it: Transgendered people, cispeople who are like 'cool', and the bigots who have a bone to pick with the topic of transgenderism.  And it's funny how it's ONLY ever the bigots who are like 'THEY ARN'T ACCEPTING MY VALID OPINION THAT DISAGREES WITH THEIR VERY EXISTENCE! D:'

Teenyboppers

Your critical mistake here is: Arguing with teenagers.  Remember when you were a teenager?  You were a fucking moron.  I was a fucking moron.  We were all fucking morons as teenagers.  I won't even admit to some of the fucking moronic things I thought when I was a teenager.  S you are knowingly arguing with fucking morons on the internet who haven't finished growing up and complaining that they are fucking morons.  Stop doing that.

[Jerry]

Mayo? For real? I always thought mayonnaise was used as a metaphor for... y'know, something else. Milk of course!  

I can't disagree with OP here, but they're just names! I'm probably heavily biased on this matter though, having suffered from bullying for so long. Especially online, you can just ignore them and move on ( on the other hand that's an arguable way to deal with IRL bullying). 

This probably belongs more to the Unpopular Opinions thread, but I believe more and more that some people really should grow a thicker skin.

[TrishaCat]

So, please, explain to me in what scenario would there be where a heterosexual person was arguing that heterosexuality is not a real thing and simply a phase of misguided individuals, has NOT experienced anything that causes inherent bias in influencing this decision.  Meaning, nothing in their social spheres influence this, like others sharing this opinion, not being taught it by family or religion, or anything like that.  Please, tell me how someone comes to that decision without inherent bias influencing.

Before we continue, what I'm trying to say is that your idea that individuals can exist who do not have an inherent bias on topics is laughably naïve.  Literally, one of the first topics in all discussions of inherent bias is that EVERYONE has inherent bias.  So how you can suggest their are individuals who do not experience inherent bias says to me that you know very little about that topic.

Well actually that's what I was trying to get at in my edit. Still, since you brought this up I guess I'll try and tackle it.

A situation in which a heterosexual person claims that homosexuality is not a real thing and is simply a phase of misguided individuals certainly is likely speaking with bias, yes, but not all of that bias likely stems from the fact that they're heterosexual; much of that could come from what groups he or she was raised around, etc.. I added in my edit that it would require such a person to not only have no biases, but to also have much knowledge about a particular subject. In that instance, it would seem as if that particular individual is lacking in knowledge on the subject and just needs more information. I also didn't mean for what I said to refer to individuals, but to be more of a general statement. Individuals can have bias, but I don't believe that whole outside groups necessarily have bias on a subject due to being in a different group. Also, regarding the situation you stated: to claim that said person's feelings and thoughts about the subject are inherently less important than another's because they're heterosexual I believe is misguided. I believe it would be more appropriate to just explain, inform, and teach the person about homosexuality in a constructive manner.

As for the second part....Well, to be honest, as I was getting to in my last post edit: It was theoretical. The meat of my response was not what you originally quoted, and I was unsure as to whether or not I should say it. Of course its extremely unlikely that one would ever actually find someone who is both knowledgeable about a subject and also unbiased. What I said in the part you quoted was not untrue; its just unrealistic. Hence why...well.... I never should have said it. So for that...I'm sorry. I feel kind of bad for opening a can of worms with a statement that has no real world application.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Battlechili

[AshleyAshes]

I added in my edit that it would require such a person to not only have no biases, but to also have much knowledge about a particular subject.

A person who has much knowledge about a particular subject is biased about that subject.  Again, I don't think you know what this term means.

 

Also, regarding the situation you stated: to claim that said person's feelings and thoughts about the subject are inherently less important than another's because they're heterosexual I believe is misguided.

This is nothing but childish grade school bullshit about 'everyone's opinion is important'.  No.  Some people's opinions are really just stupid, ignorant or hateful bullshit that holds no value.

 

[Joel]

Smells like tumblr in here

 

[MissFleece]

Do people actually call people these things in real life?

and by real life, I mean not on the internet. I know that's a strange concept to some. 

I've only heard of these used on tumblr...

[Clove Darkwave]

I don't know MissFleece. But I guess if "well you're WHITE LOL" is the best they can come up with, that must be the last resort. Usually I get shit for things higher above the surface layer than that.

[AshleyAshes]

Do people actually call people these things in real life?

and by real life, I mean not on the internet. I know that's a strange concept to some. 

I've only heard of these used on tumblr...

In the scenario of an argument?  No.  These arguments don't exist in real life because in real life you only have two actual situations: 1) People aren't bigoted enough in real life to call someone out and risk looking bigoted, endangering their employment, or social standing.  2) They really ARE that bigoted but the confrontation is very short.  Either the bigots make it a drive by shouting, the targets call the cops because threatening harassment is happening, or the targets GTFO.  You can't have long, in person debates in the style of internet arguments in real life.

I mean, imagine it, say, a group of queer people be hanging out in their favorite spot, talking about queer things (Which with current trends, would be Pokémon and Adventure Time) and then say, your white supremacist holocaust denying homophobe marches in to say 'Actually, you are all a bunch of confused faggots and Pikachu fucking sucks, Digimon is so much better'.  The queer folks will just call the cops on the intruder for trespassing and it all ends pretty quickly.

[Troj]

Individuals who invest time in genuinely understanding the plights of other individuals in different demographics are rarely, if ever, the individuals arguing on the internet that their sexuality, gender identity, issues of racial injustice, state of poverty, fandom, or really ANYTHING, is just a crock of shit and not real.  For example, the Transgender People thread has three kinds of people in it: Transgendered people, cispeople who are like 'cool', and the bigots who have a bone to pick with the topic of transgenderism.  And it's funny how it's ONLY ever the bigots who are like 'THEY ARN'T ACCEPTING MY VALID OPINION THAT DISAGREES WITH THEIR VERY EXISTENCE! D:'

Your critical mistake here is: Arguing with teenagers.  Remember when you were a teenager?  You were a fucking moron.  I was a fucking moron.  We were all fucking morons as teenagers.  I won't even admit to some of the fucking moronic things I thought when I was a teenager.  S you are knowingly arguing with fucking morons on the internet who haven't finished growing up and complaining that they are fucking morons.  Stop doing that.You

Being a trifle presumptuous here, Ashley, given that I don't go out of my way to argue with teenagers for exactly those reasons. But, sometimes I run into 'em on the Internet, and if they're wrong about something, I absolutely tell them. But, once they start throwing out insults, I typically exit stage left, because I don't want to get tricked into wrestling with a pig.

I've also run into full-blown adults who still acted like teenage SJWs, as well. If you don't have the exact same opinion on every issue that they do, you are a TERRIBLE PERSON. (And I notice a lot of them LOVE to call others "terrible people" or "bad people," in fact.) If you're white, straight, and cis-gendered, you're suspect by default.

But, I try to steer clear of any setting or encounter that smells "SJW-y," because I've learned my lesson the hard way there.

Anyway, you sound like you think I'm ranting or complaining here, when all I'm saying is that sometimes, "You don't get this issue" is totally fair and accurate, and sometimes, it's arrogant and presumptuous, and it depends on where the comment's coming from, and who it's being addressed to.

You're right that a lot of people who really know jack shit and don't honestly care about the issue at hand get pissy and defensive when people rightly call them out for knowing jack shit and not caring. I'm particularly annoyed with people who think that their gut feelings about trans people are equivalent to, y'know, the actual research on trans people, or trans people's actual accounts of themselves and their experience. "Trans people feel mentally ill to me, a layperson with no mental health training or experience--so therefore, they are!"

Ignorance is understandable, but I can't stand people who don't understand, believe they understand just fine, and won't be told otherwise.

 

Edited October 4, 2015 by Troj

[Vae]

Your critical mistake here is: Arguing with teenagers.  Remember when you were a teenager?  You were a fucking moron.  I was a fucking moron.  We were all fucking morons as teenagers.  I won't even admit to some of the fucking moronic things I thought when I was a teenager.  S you are knowingly arguing with fucking morons on the internet who haven't finished growing up and complaining that they are fucking morons.  Stop doing that.

Not commenting on the rest of this thread, because I'm tired and I already said my piece.

But I actually wish people had argued with me a lot more when I was a stupid teenager.
Would've spared some of the annoyances I had to deal with later.

[Onnes]

Not commenting on the rest of this thread, because I'm tired and I already said my piece.

But I actually wish people had argued with me a lot more when I was a stupid teenager.
Would've spared some of the annoyances I had to deal with later.

Yeah, it's tempting to just ignore/quarantine people going through that phase (which anyone who has studied at a university knows can extend pretty far into adulthood,) but it can do the person a disservice. We often recognize this issue with things like independence and personal responsibility, that if you deny someone any experience of being an independent, functioning adult until it's forced upon them then many people just crash and burn. I think the same idea applies to being able to discuss ideas and actually converse intelligently with people who may differ from you.

Of course, how far you actually want to bother with someone in full "stupid teenager" mode, and the best tact to take, is another question entirely.

[Sar]

Does anyone else remember when calling someone Gay was an insult? Boy - we sure were creative huh?

[Joel]

Does anyone else remember when calling someone Gay was an insult? Boy - we sure were creative huh?

your a poopyhead! :V

[Troj]

"Fag" has re-entered my lexicon as an insult, but to be fair, it doesn't just mean "gay" to me.

I'm sneaky about using it these days, but I admit that I still enjoy the sound and mouth-feel of "retarded."

Edited October 4, 2015 by Troj

[Ayattar]

Does anyone else remember when calling someone Gay was an insult? Boy - we sure were creative huh?

Umm... No. It was never an insult here. 'Gay' and 'homosexual' were always used to describe and for nothing else. To determine something as unmanly, in the worst case. "Faggot" was.

 "Trans people feel mentally ill to me, a layperson with no mental health training or experience--so therefore, they are!"

But transsexualism is the result of mental disorder, so in some way they're right.

[Troj]

There are mental disorders, and mental disorders.

When the average layperson says that someone is "crazy" or "mentally ill," they mean that they're basically psychotic or delusional. Generally, calling someone "crazy" or "mentally ill" serves to put them at arms' length, so to speak, as it implies that their feelings, thoughts, and opinions are invalid and irrational. The underlying insinuation is that these invalid thoughts, feelings, and opinions can and should be medicated and "therapized" away.

But, if you look at some of the new research on trans people, it would seem that they're actually right about something being amiss. https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20032-transsexual-differences-caught-on-brain-scan/

I'm additionally excited about this new research because it also shits in the hat of all of those PoMo gender theorists who think everything related to sex and gender are just "socially constructed." Eat a dick, Judith Butler!

[Kalmor]

But transsexualism is the result of mental disorder, so in some way they're right.

Gender dysphoria is just the uncomfortable feeling/depression associated with pre-transition transsexual people.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/gender-dysphoria/Pages/Introduction.aspx

Gender dysphoria is a condition where a person experiences discomfort or distress because there is a mismatch between their biological sex and gender identity.

It also isn't a mental illness, at least according to the NHS here. I don't know if it's still in the DSM though.

This mismatch between sex and gender identity can lead to distressing and uncomfortable feelings that are called gender dysphoria. Gender dysphoria is a recognised medical condition, for which treatment is sometimes appropriate. It is not a mental illness.

[AshleyAshes]

 

I don't know if it's still in the DSM though.

The DSM-V still includes 'Gender Identity Disorder'.  Though those who would use this as a justification that those who are transgendered should thusly be 'fixed', they should note that the American Psychiatric Association, the organization that publishes the DSM, is very much against such things and supports transition as the method of treatment.

GID being in the DSM-V has advantages.  Namely, insurance.  With transition being the recommended treatment and it being acknowledged by the APA, this promotes the idea of coverage by insurance companies.  If it wasn't in the DSM, and it currently doesn't have any firmly identified physical causes, insurance companies that would otherwise cover it could write it off as 'cosmetic' and leave their clients on their own.

[#00Buck]

When people use slurs like that against me I just pay for my burger and fries and then laugh at them. 

[MalletFace]

It also isn't a mental illness, at least according to the NHS here. I don't know if it's still in the DSM though.

It is indeed in the DSM-5.

Edited October 4, 2015 by MalletFace

[Kalmor]

The DSM-V still includes 'Gender Identity Disorder'.  Though those who would use this as a justification that those who are transgendered should thusly be 'fixed', they should note that the American Psychiatric Association, the organization that publishes the DSM, is very much against such things and supports transition as the method of treatment.

GID being in the DSM-V has advantages.  Namely, insurance.  With transition being the recommended treatment and it being acknowledged by the APA, this promotes the idea of coverage by insurance companies.  If it wasn't in the DSM, and it currently doesn't have any firmly identified physical causes, insurance companies that would otherwise cover it could write it off as 'cosmetic' and leave their clients on their own.

 

It is indeed in the DSM-5.

Alright. Looks like the NHS just classifies it as a "medical condition" rather than as a mental illness, which I'm guessing allows them to legally help people with it.

[Ayattar]

[things]

Well, I don't need that to say that it's bullshit. Enough to compare our organisms. And brain scans were indicating a huge difference in activity of certain zones of the brain between men and women since the technology was discovered.

 

 

Gender dysphoria is just the uncomfortable feeling/depression associated with pre-transition transsexual people.

Classification depends on where do you live. Here it has status comparable to... I don't know. Chronic depression maybe.

[MalletFace]

Alright. Looks like the NHS just classifies it as a "medical condition" rather than as a mental illness, which I'm guessing allows them to legally help people with it.

Yup. It has to be a disorder for doctors to have much wiggle room. No matter how much people dislike disorder being attached to it, that's the reality.

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

Weirdo who is obsessed with Chuck-E-Cheese, who makes threads moaning about mysterious bullies being after him, that he won't give specifics on, who shits on trans people in a thread he otherwise could not have been involved in, makes a thread moaning that people called him 'white' and 'cis' dismissively.

Jesus, get over yourself.

Ok, so you're going to be very mature and insult me by calling me a weirdo based on what I'm interested in and make fun of me having a panic attack over people who have harassed me in the past and claim I'm insulting transgender people when I have never done anything like that in the past. You cunt.

 

[MissFleece]

Ok, so you're going to be very mature and insult me by calling me a weirdo based on what I'm interested in and make fun of me having a panic attack over people who have harassed me in the past and claim I'm insulting transgender people when I have never done anything like that in the past. You cunt.

 

You know what makes you look better? Immediately whining about it and calling her an insult back. 

Go after the argument, not the person. 

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

You know what makes you look better? Immediately whining about it and calling her an insult back. 

Go after the argument, not the person. 

Well I can't help but feel fucking offended when this person who I thought I was friends with comes in and acts like everyone else and treats me like I'm just some idiot freak. They don't even have an argument. They're blatantly insulting me.

 

[MissFleece]

Well I can't help but feel fucking offended when this person who I thought I was friends with comes in and acts like everyone else and treats me like I'm just some idiot freak. They don't even have an argument. They're blatantly insulting me.

 

It's the internet, if you say something stupid you're going to get rebuffed for it. Grow up or go home. 

If they're insulting you, look at WHY. 

You complained about bullies on the internet that you wouldn't give details over, you then whine about trans people, basically, you're not looking like a very understanding or mature person. 
You know what you could do? Ignore them. It seems to be the lesson that everyone KEEPS GOING OVER WITH YOU, but you are ignoring.

It's the internet, people are going to insult you. IGNORE THEM. 

[Zaraphayx]

Ashley is an unpleasant bitter nerd so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

It pains me to say that Rassah was right.

[MissFleece]

Can we please stop attacking people personally now? 

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

This is why I shouldn't post my opinions on here. I get shit on for them and the lowest hanging fruit gets hit every single time.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Sidewalk Surfboard

[AshleyAshes]

Well I can't help but feel fucking offended when this person who I thought I was friends with comes

Whoa, whoa, whoa!  You thought we were FRIENDS?  I don't even KNOW you.  We've never even had a CONVERSATION outside of quoting each other in a few threads between here and FAF.  Where did you get 'friends' from?  That is SUPER creepy. o____________o

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!  You thought we were FRIENDS?  I don't even KNOW you.  We've never even had a CONVERSATION outside of quoting each other in a few threads between here and FAF.  Where did you get 'friends' from?  That is SUPER creepy. o____________o

I dunno, I meant like acquaintances. I should have worded it better. But clearly we're both steamed over this so maybe we should just relax before posting in this thread again.

[Zaraphayx]

It's the internet, if you say something stupid you're going to get rebuffed for it. Grow up or go home. 

If they're insulting you, look at WHY. 

You complained about bullies on the internet that you wouldn't give details over, you then whine about trans people, basically, you're not looking like a very understanding or mature person. 
You know what you could do? Ignore them. It seems to be the lesson that everyone KEEPS GOING OVER WITH YOU, but you are ignoring.

It's the internet, people are going to insult you. IGNORE THEM. 

Can we please stop attacking people personally now? 

[AshleyAshes]

I dunno, I meant like acquaintances. I should have worded it better. But clearly we're both steamed over this so maybe we should just relax before posting in this thread again.

Let me be clear here: You and I are two individuals who both have membership in the same forum.  We do not have any for of relationship beyond that. o___________o

[Ayattar]

Whoa, whoa, whoa!  You thought we were FRIENDS?  I don't even KNOW you.  We've never even had a CONVERSATION outside of quoting each other in a few threads between here and FAF.  Where did you get 'friends' from?  That is SUPER creepy. o____________o

This is the result of how broad the definition of a word 'friend' in english is. You should be using "acquaintance" more often.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Ayattar

[MissFleece]

This is why I shouldn't post my opinions on here. I get shit on for them and the lowest hanging fruit gets hit every single time.

dude calm down. The only one insulting you is Ashley. The rest are debates. If you don't want people to debate the topic you're posting, then don't post. 

Please realize that people here will insult you, most the time for comedic purposes. How else will our egos stay at a containable level? 

You know what you do if something hits a little too close to home and you can't handle it? Ignore it. Most the time if it's stupid enough, someone else will handle it for you. That's what forums are for, to point out the dumb. 

Let me be clear here: You and I are two individuals who both have membership in the same forum.  We do not have any for of relationship beyond that. o___________o

Quit kicking someone when they're down. This person is young and you're just being a bully now. Stop. It's not making yourself look any better, there's no point to it. Now drop it. 

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

dude calm down. The only one insulting you is Ashley. The rest are debates. If you don't want people to debate the topic you're posting, then don't post. 

Please realize that people here will insult you, most the time for comedic purposes. How else will our egos stay at a containable level? 

You know what you do if something hits a little too close to home and you can't handle it? Ignore it. Most the time if it's stupid enough, someone else will handle it for you. That's what forums are for, to point out the dumb. 

Quit kicking someone when they're down. This person is young and you're just being a bully now. Stop. It's not making yourself look any better, there's no point to it. Now drop it. 

I've calmed down now, actually. Just had to breathe for a minute.

[Zaraphayx]

"Hi I'm AshleyAshes, esteemed poster on a furfag forum, and I am going to insult and harass teenagers online as a grown adult and then assert that other people are creepy"

10/10 top trolling Ashley!

[MissFleece]

I've calmed down now, actually. Just had to breathe for a minute.

:D Sweet. 

Let's see if we can get this back on topic...

 

I've heard people call white people "pasty ass mayo motherfuckers", but I thought it was too funny to take seriously. Maybe that mentality is damaging to those who actually find that offensive, but it's so ridiculous. That's like someone telling you "shove a hedgehog in your anus, you crusty nipple"

The insult is kind of too creative to find serious, or creative enough that you just kind of have to sit there in awe at how the fuck they thought of that. You know? That's my favorite way to insult people though, come up with something so fucking weird they're kind of thrown for a minute. 

Gotta give that shit credit. 

[Tsuujou]

Weirdo who is obsessed with Chuck-E-Cheese, who makes threads moaning about mysterious bullies being after him, that he won't give specifics on, who shits on trans people in a thread he otherwise could not have been involved in, makes a thread moaning that people called him 'white' and 'cis' dismissively.

Jesus, get over yourself.

Sidewalk's a girl. No need to misgender. c:

[Zeke]

Please keep posts civil. There's no need to insult others.

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

Please keep posts civil. There's no need to insult others.

Ok sowwy

[Monochromatic-Dragon]

"cis" and "white" and "hetero" are only insults now because people are supposed to feel guilty about it or some shit. 

[Machine]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

[#00Buck]

Ashley is an unpleasant bitter nerd so I wouldn't worry too much about it.

It pains me to say that Rassah was right.

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

[Kaizy]

An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind.

Well I mean some people apparently want to be blind, so...

[Hewge]

"Mayo" is an insult now?

...But I love mayonnaise!

[#00Buck]

I like crackers. 

[Machine]

Well I mean some people apparently want to be blind, so...

Yup, heard about that.

I could use some drain cleaner in my brain after trying to comprehend that.

[Kaizy]

"Mayo" is an insult now?

...But I love mayonnaise!

It's great on sandwiches. Why all the mayo hate? :[