Jump to content

Rant: Using "Straight", "White", or "Cis" as an Insult


Sidewalk Surfboard
 Share

Recommended Posts

A person who has much knowledge about a particular subject is biased about that subject.Ā  Again, I don't think you know what this term means.

Ā 

This is nothing but childish grade school bullshit about 'everyone's opinion is important'.Ā  No.Ā  Some people's opinions are really just stupid,Ā ignorant or hateful bullshit that holds no value.

Ā 

Bias is a term used to describe a situation in which a person's feelings and personal beliefs outside of the realm of factĀ have influence over a person's stance on a particular view.

And I can't agree with that second part at all. To explain what I mean, I like to think that people (including myself) should put others before themselves. This means that what I have to say for instance is less important than what someone else has to say. Because of this, this means that if I were to consider my viewpoint on something important, I would have to believe that everyone else's viewpoints are important and valuable too (moreso in fact). This means that while someone may be wrong on something, it would be important to take such information into consideration and attempt to use it in a way that benefits everyone. Which brings me to something else....Should a person speak in a hateful language, it would be in one's best interest to listen to what they have to say and then slowly and respectfully explain to the person saying the hateful content how and why they are being hateful and how they might be able to not be hateful and why its important for them to not be. Should a person say something ignorant, its the other people's job to explain in detail what it is they do not know in a way that such a person can understand while doing so in a manner that doesn't come off as condescending or rude. This way, instead of their views being disregarded, people have the chance to learn and grow as human beings and become better, moreĀ knowledgeableĀ and more respectable people. To simply disregard such views would be to inhibit the potential chance for someone to learn and grow. While its true that people often have difficulty changing, I believe it would be wise to give people the benefit of the doubt for those few chances where people listen. It is with this in mind that I believe that disregarding someone's views for being stupid or whatever, regardless of what they are, is potentially damaging.

Edited by Battlechili
  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

^ Wow, wish I had that much faith and patience withĀ people.

I often want to give Battlechili a gold star and Nobel prize for being the nicest and most rational person on the Internet. I don't think I've seen him put down or pop off on anyone yet. It fills me with determination.

Ā 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

i just avoid these insults by not going to the worst part of the internet

if anybody attempted to insult me that way in real life, id probably slap their face and call them a faggot. then id tell them to go get laid or some shit

probably some stickfigured faux androgyny couch dweller will attempt this one day

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If someone actually thinks that ''white'', ''cis'' and ''straight'' are actual insults and tried to attack me with such BRUTAL words, I would only laugh in their face. It would be like wanting to fight a war with a spoon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering how often those people boost up cis, white, straight men Ā and really push Ā for how powerful and strong we are, i dont feel bad for being 3/4 of those things.

What gets me is why trans people bash cis people when all trans people want is to be cis in the end

weird right

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Considering how often those people boost up cis, white, straight men Ā and really push Ā for how powerful and strong we are, i dont feel bad for being 3/4 of those things.

What gets me is why trans people bash cis people when all trans people want is to be cis in the end

weird right

If that was true not aĀ single trans woman would choose to keep their penises, and trans men would not keep their vaginas.

JustĀ sayin'.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Really? How is that alike? From what I know, someone who's MtF wants to be female, right?

Unless I'm horribly wrong and cis specifically means "born like that".

well, depending on your PoV, they may already be a female. They just want their body to match their mental gender.Ā 

Gender is a concept I have trouble with honestly. I'm not terribly up to date with it.Ā 

edit: also, Clayton, you are not straight. Lol.Ā 

Edited by Butters
Keepin it real
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If that was true not aĀ single trans woman would choose to keep their penises, and trans men would not keep their vaginas.

JustĀ sayin'.

Errrr, no

"Cis" simply means as identifies as your sex. The majority of trans people want to become cis, that's why they go through HRT.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is cis then? My definition I've always been told is that "you identify as your sex" or "your gender and your sex match up"

By that definition, it would make sense that a FtM going through HRT, identifying as a man, and eventually getting a sex change would become cis, yes?

He'd identify as a man, and his sex would match up with his identification? Cis?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would like to point out that this thread has firmly established that cis as a criticism of non-trans individuals who do not understand the trans experience yet try to speak of it authoritatively, and Clayton Gamedog has marched right into this thread, is not trans, and has attempted to authoritatively and incorrectlyĀ tell what trans people are doing and what the terminology is.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What is cis then? My definition I've always been told is that "you identify as your sex" or "your gender and your sex match up"

By that definition, it would make sense that a FtM going through HRT, identifying as a man, and eventually getting a sex change would become cis, yes?

He'd identify as a man, and his sex would match up with his identification? Cis?

Cis basically means "not trans".

Why is that so hard for some to understand? :|

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cis basically means "not trans".

Why is that so hard for some to understand? :|

Because if you get enough pills and surgery you will become cis. Ā A magical fairy will send a message back in time via 'Delorean Mail or D-Mail' using a microwave phone to rewrite your entire personal history, so as you ever never trans or born the wrong sex in the first place!

Edited by AshleyAshes
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Cis basically means "not trans".

Why is that so hard for some to understand? :|


"Basically means". I'm not looking for "basically", I'm looking for the actual definition, which (what I've been told by every trans person except for you and Ashley it seems) means "you identify as your sex".

Ā 

Time.com agrees: If a doctor announces, ā€œIt's a girl!ā€ in the delivery room based on the child's body and that baby grows up to identify as a woman, that person is cisgender.

Wikipedia agrees: Cisgender (often abbreviated to simply cis) describes related types of gender identity perceptions, where individuals' experiences of their own gender agree with the sex they were assigned at birth.

The gender Wikia agrees: Cisgender is a term for someone who has a gender identity that aligns with what they were assigned at birth.

Oxford Dictionary agrees: Denoting or relating to someone whose sense of personal identity corresponds with the gender assigned to them at birth.

Ā 

Weird!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

why would you bump this topic

Perhaps it was because I was quoted and got an alert for it.
Maybe that's why. I don't know, but perhaps that's the reason. IT could very well be the raeson why my attention was drawn to this topic again.

Usually when someone quotes me, it gets my attention via notification in the upper-right corner of the screen, and when someone speaks to me I will usually speak back, hence, replying to their post and in turn, bumping the topic.

Ā 

Good god.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps it was because I was quoted and got an alert for it.Maybe that's why. I don't know, but perhaps that's the reason. IT could very well be the raeson why my attention was drawn to this topic again.

Usually when someone quotes me, it gets my attention via notification in the upper-right corner of the screen, and when someone speaks to me I will usually speak back, hence, replying to their post and in turn, bumping the topic.

Ā 

Good god.

the reply you got because you bumped the thread seven days after it died out, which funnily enough goes hand in hand with the fact that this, according to the post history, is your first time posting in this thread

so uh...why don't you address what he was actually referring to?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

the reply you got because you bumped the thread seven days after it died out, which funnily enough goes hand in hand with the fact that this, according to the post history, is your first time posting in this thread

so uh...why don't you address what he was actually referring to?

", according to the post history, is your first time posting in this thread"

Please scroll up, lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

that's exactly the post i'm referring to. last post in the thread before tonight's chain (Devious Malefactor) was october 7th. your post that started a new flameĀ was 22 hours ago.

Ā 

i'm not saying you don't have a right to speak, but i do wonder if you're just trying to stir the pot whenever you jump into threads.

Edited by evan
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why are we arguing about whether or not it's OK to bump a ~6 day old thread? There's nowhere near enough traffic through this forum to warrant that kind of cutoff.

If people are going to complain it should be about whatever kind of glitch in the fabric of reality leads someone to believe that sex reassignment surgery changes one'sĀ sex assigned at birth.

EDIT: In case this post needs, for some reason, clarification, I'm referring to the fact that the terms 'cis'/'trans' are defined relative toĀ sex/gender assignment at birth.

Edited by Onnes
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

that's exactly the post i'm referring to. last post in the thread before tonight's chain (Devious Malefactor) was october 7th. your post that started a new flameĀ was 22 hours ago.

Ā 

i'm not saying you don't have a right to speak, but i do wonder if you're just trying to stir the pot whenever you jump into threads.

" last post in the thread before tonight's chain"
It would have been just swell had you started off your complaint with this fact.

Why did I post in this thread? Probably saw it in the sidebar, maybe I was clicking around in R&R and didn't check dates.

"i'm not saying you don't have a right to speak"
You're right, because it's not against Phoenix rules for me to post on old topics, so I don't know why you're complaining.

" but i do wonder if you're just trying to stir the pot whenever you jump into threads."
Please don't accuse me of such things without knowing the entire story.

Why are we arguing about whether or not it's OK to bump a ~6 day old thread? There's nowhere near enough traffic through this forum to warrant that kind of cutoff.

If people are going to complain it should be about whatever kind of glitch in the fabric of reality leads someone to believe that sex reassignment surgery changes one'sĀ sex assigned at birth.

We're not. We're arguing about whether or not getting SRS changes your sex, which it does.
If someone is AFAB ("It's a girl", "It has a vagina", etc), later identify as a male (FtM, transman) and they go through HRT and get SRS, they are attempting to become cisgender
Cisgender means you identify as your sex
Sex is penis or vagina, in most basic biological terms.
If someone goes from having a vagina to having a penis, identifies as a male, and believes that being male means having a penis, they would go from being transgender to CISGENDER.
Though SOME trans people keep their trans label, and call themselves post-op trans.

Some trans people (mostly FtM) hold off on SRS until they believe that technology has created nice looking dicks, and then they go through with it. Their end goal is still to become cis.
Identifying as their sex
"My gender is male, I am of the male sex, therefore I'm": trans? or cis?
Which one is it?

Edited by Gamedog
Link to comment
Share on other sites

We're not. We're arguing about whether or not getting SRS changes your sex, which it does.If someone is AFAB ("It's a girl", "It has a vagina", etc), later identify as a male (FtM, transman) and they go through HRT and get SRS, they are attempting to become cisgender
Cisgender means you identify as your sex
Sex is penis or vagina, in most basic biological terms.
If someone goes from having a vagina to having a penis, identifies as a male, and believes that being male means having a penis, they would go from being transgender to CISGENDER.
Though SOME trans people keep their trans label, and call themselves post-op trans.

Some trans people (mostly FtM) hold off on SRS until they believe that technology has created nice looking dicks, and then they go through with it. Their end goal is still to become cis.
Identifying as their sex
"My gender is male, I am of the male sex, therefore I'm": trans? or cis?
Which one is it?

"Basically means". I'm not looking for "basically", I'm looking for the actual definition, which (what I've been told by every trans person except for you and Ashley it seems) means "you identify as your sex".

Ā 

Time.com agrees: If a doctor announces, ā€œIt's a girl!ā€ in the delivery room based on the child's body and that baby grows up to identify as a woman, that person is cisgender.

Wikipedia agrees: Cisgender (often abbreviated to simply cis) describes related types of gender identity perceptions, where individuals' experiences of their own gender agree with the sex they were assigned at birth.

The gender Wikia agrees: Cisgender is a term for someone who has a gender identity that aligns with what they were assigned at birth.

Oxford Dictionary agrees: Denoting or relating to someone whose sense of personal identity corresponds with the gender assigned to them at birth.

You actually bolded the relevant part of the definition in your own earlier post. Referencing things to sex/gender assignment at birth makes the definition relatively unambiguous because it completely avoids the entire question of the definition and determination of sex in the first place.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why are we arguing about whether or not it's OK to bump a ~6 day old thread? There's nowhere near enough traffic through this forum to warrant that kind of cutoff.

If people are going to complain it should be about whatever kind of glitch in the fabric of reality leads someone to believe that sex reassignment surgery changes one'sĀ sex assigned at birth.

it's not so much about the bump as it is the fact that i've detected anĀ intention of trying to deliberately start up arguments purely to be inflammatory (if it's true is yet to be sen). if you want to throw around some moral contravention on the idea of being for/against that kind of posting, i don't really care, but it ain't about traffic or enforcing misguided perceptions on "necro"ing threads, more the principle of why one would go out of their way to post in this thread. there must be some interest; the thread has been relatively low in the R&R sections. and it's certain that i could be going out of my way to imply that he's trying to be inflammatory, it's easy to just skim and miss a date, but nevertheless the discussion got drawn out more than intended.

i meant to enforce a question. it became a discussion.

" last post in the thread before tonight's chain"
It would have been just swell had you started off your complaint with this fact.

Why did I post in this thread? Probably saw it in the sidebar, maybe I was clicking around in R&R and didn't check dates.

"i'm not saying you don't have a right to speak"
You're right, because it's not against Phoenix rules for me to post on old topics, so I don't know why you're complaining.

" but i do wonder if you're just trying to stir the pot whenever you jump into threads."
Please don't accuse me of such things without knowing the entire story.

Ā 

your concern is that you misunderstood wording (poor on my part, i can see now), and you misunderstood chili's post and didn't consider that you bumped a seven day old thread based on how you described yourself to find this thread. simple misunderstanding, totally cool, whatever.

my issue at the fundamental point of this is that you decided to be condescending first.Ā 

my complaint is your attitude. it's always defensive. every argument turns into this, and you always have a penchant for starting the argument. which is why i question your motives. this is why i think you want to stir the pot. the way you posted on faf was consistently aggressive the minute you felt as though there was a counter-argument (present in the thread or otherwise) that you could prove wrong.

your behaviour, to me, says that you just want to be right all the time. and you can be offended by that as much as you want. but that is why i question your intent.

and i could be wrong, i'm more than fully willing to admit that. but if you ever are, then i completely doubt you ever will admit it.

something to consider.

Edited by evan
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You actually bolded the relevant part of the definition in your own earlier post. Referencing things to sex/gender assignment at birth makes the definition relatively unambiguous because it completely avoids the entire question of the definition and determination of sex in the first place.

Are you aware that the way doctors "assign" a sex at birth is by looking at the genitalia between the baby's legs and deciding "this is male" or "this is female", yes?

They don't go do a chromosone test on the baby, lol. It's literally as easy as "does this baby have a penis or vagina? It has a vagina, therefore put "F" on it's birth certificate".

Ā 

Ā 

your concern is that you misunderstood wording (poor on my part, i can see now), and you misunderstood chili's post and didn't consider that you bumped a seven day old thread based on how you described yourself to find this thread. simple misunderstanding, totally cool, whatever.

my issue at the fundamental point of this is that you decided to be condescending first.Ā 

my complaint is your attitude. it's always defensive. every argument turns into this, and you always have a penchant for starting the argument. which is why i question your motives. this is why i think you want to stir the pot. the way you posted on faf was consistently aggressive the minute you felt as though there was a counter-argument (present in the thread or otherwise) that you could prove wrong.

your behaviour, to me, says that you just want to be right all the time. and you can be offended by that as much as you want. but that is why i question your intent.

and i could be wrong, i'm more than fully willing to admit that. but if you ever are, then i completely doubt you ever will admit it.

something to consider.

My attitude with you is entirely because of the history you and I have together. Every single time you've talked to me, you've been rude and patronizing towards me -- hell, you're doing it right now over an honest mistake.

Pardon me for being a little defensive whenever you talk to me.
I'd like it if you'd stop accusing me of being a twat, and I'd like it even MORE if you'd stop talking to me in a condescending way like you're doing right now.

Ā 

Thanks

Link to comment
Share on other sites

it's not so much about the bump as it is the fact that i've detected anĀ intention of trying to deliberately start up arguments purely to be inflammatory (if it's true is yet to be sen). if you want to throw around some moral contravention on the idea of being for/against that kind of posting, i don't really care, but it ain't about traffic or enforcing misguided perceptions on "necro"ing threads, more the principle of why one would go out of their way to post in this thread. there must be some interest; the thread has been relatively low in the R&R sections. and it's certain that i could be going out of my way to imply that he's trying to be inflammatory, it's easy to just skim and miss a date, but nevertheless the discussion got drawn out more than intended.

i meant to enforce a question. it became a discussion.

That some threads should be left in the ground is more or less value-neutral. Which threads should remain buried, though, is clearly up to individual posters (or no one would be posting in this one at this moment.) It's better just to get straight to the point of why raising a particular thread is silly. I mean, if people are going to end up arguing over relatively simpleĀ definitions anyway then they may as well get it over quickly.Ā It's not like I don't know who certain users are,Ā but merely implying that someone is acting in bad faith is probably not going to get you anywhere productive.

Are you aware that the way doctors "assign" a sex at birth is by looking at the genitalia between the baby's legs and deciding "this is male" or "this is female", yes?

They don't go do a chromosone test on the baby, lol. It's literally as easy as "does this baby have a penis or vagina? It has a vagina, therefore put "F" on it's birth certificate".

I can't even tell whether or not you are serious. Birth is about as fixed a time in the human life cycle as there can be. You seem to be missing the reason for this particular definition, namely that someone who transitions to a gender other than that assigned at birth probably has a rather different set of experiences, both historically and ongoing, than someone who hasĀ lived with their birth gender their entire life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can't even tell whether or not you are serious. Birth is about as fixed a time in the human life cycle as there can be. You seem to be missing the reason for this particular definition, namely that someone who transitions to a gender other than that assigned at birth probably has a rather different set of experiences, both historically and ongoing, than someone who hasĀ lived with their birth gender their entire life.

So what are your opinions on SRS? Do you believe that they should be able to say that they're of the male or female sex, after undergoing SRS?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Basically means". I'm not looking for "basically", I'm looking for the actual definition, which (what I've been told by every trans person except for you and Ashley it seems) means "you identify as your sex".

The sex you were defined as at birth, yes. MEANING, "not trans".

It really is that simple, mate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The sex you were defined as at birth, yes. MEANING, "not trans".

It really is that simple, mate.

That's not the definition I've heard repeatedly over the years.
If someone goes through HRT and SRS, and gets that little "F" on their driver's license changed to a "M", is their sex not male?
When do they get to say that they're of the male sex?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's not the definition I've heard repeatedly over the years.If someone goes through HRT and SRS, and gets that little "F" on their driver's license changed to a "M", is their sex not male?
When do they get to say that they're of the male sex?

Well, there are at least four different kind of genders/sexĀ legal, physical (appearance, characteristics, genitals), psychological/emotional, and... genetic (chromosomal). I'd argue there's also "hormonal gender" but that might be applicable to one of the last four.

When people say "cis" they DOĀ mean not trans. I dunno where you've gotten your info but "cis" has always meant people who identify with the sex they were assigned with AT BIRTH. A boy with a penis who still identify as male, or a woman with a vagina who still identifies as a woman.

So, not trans.

EDIT:

I forgot, you could also add legal sex. LEGALLY I'm still male but that will probably change some time this year or the next.

Edited by Kellie Gator
Link to comment
Share on other sites

That's not the definition I've heard repeatedly over the years.

Yet no one in this thread is backing you up on this definition.Ā  That should be your first 'red flag' that you have it wrong.Ā  Trans people do not become cis, they can never become cis, they will always be trans, they will always have that history of being trans, they can't change everything that happened before they transitioned and that is what makes them trans.Ā  You think that somehow surgery and pills make them cis but it doesn't, it transitions them from male to female sexuality identity, get it?Ā  Trans, they went through it, they'll have always gone through it.Ā  Cis peopleĀ never transition, cis people never change, cis people never have to, cis peopleĀ will never have that experience that trans people do, get it?Ā  This isn't a complicated definition.

Cis has never, ever been used to define a trans person who has completed transition to some imaginary goal mark that makes them not trans anymore.Ā  Ever.Ā  You're the only one who thinks this.Ā  ALL the trans people and other people in this thread are telling you that this is not the definition.Ā  Any further attempt to argue that the definition is different is just you trolling, just you being so upset that you had it wrong that you need to argue it.Ā  'Cis' is not a prefix for something that has completed a change, it's a prefix for something that never changed in the first place.

Thus concludes tonight's episode of 'Ignorant Cis-dude Tries To Argue Trans Stuff With Transpeople Despite Knowing Fuck All'.Ā  This was the best possible example of how and why cis can be used as a dismissive, because stuff like this happens a lot and the trans people are like 'You're cis, you have no fucking idea, please stop talking'.Ā  If you are not a person who talks out their ass about gender stuff to trans people, you are unlikely to ever face the word 'cis' used to dismiss your opinion.

Edited by AshleyAshes
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yet no one in this thread is backing you up on this definition.Ā  That should be your first 'red flag' that you have it wrong.Ā  Trans people do not become cis, they can never become cis, they will always be trans, they will always have that history of being trans, they can't change everything that happened before they transitioned and that is what makes them trans.Ā  You think that somehow surgery and pills make them cis but it doesn't, it transitions them from male to female sexuality identity, get it?Ā  Trans, they went through it, they'll have always gone through it.Ā  Cis peopleĀ never transition, cis people never change, cis people never have to, cis peopleĀ will never have that experience that trans people do, get it?Ā  This isn't a complicated definition.

Cis has never, ever been used to define a trans person who has completed transition to some imaginary goal mark that makes them not trans anymore.Ā  Ever.Ā  You're the only one who thinks this.Ā  ALL the trans people and other people in this thread are telling you that this is not the definition.Ā  Any further attempt to argue that the definition is different is just you trolling, just you being so upset that you had it wrong that you need to argue it.Ā  'Cis' is not a prefix for something that has completed a change, it's a prefix for something that never changed in the first place.

Thus concludes tonight's episode of 'Ignorant Cis-dude Tries To Argue Trans Stuff With Transpeople Despite Knowing Fuck All'.Ā  This was the best possible example of how and why cis can be used as a dismissive, because stuff like this happens a lot and the trans people are like 'You're cis, you have no fucking idea, please stop talking'.Ā  If you are not a person who talks out their ass about gender stuff to trans people, you are unlikely to ever face the word 'cis' used to dismiss your opinion.

"No one in this thread" -- what, the two people who are arguing with me? You and Kelly? The only two people who have EVER told me that cisgender doesn't mean "identifies as my sex"? Weird, right?

Cis = "identify as your sex". I've linked to many websites including the fucking gender Wikia that agree with me, and yet you still disagree.
If cis = identify as your sex (which it does, and I've proven this), then if a FtM gets a penis or a MtF gets a vagina, they will become cisgender. They will say "I am of the male sex, and I have the male gender". Therefore they are CIS.

"it transitions them from male to female sexuality identity, get it?"
Sexuality =/= biological genitalia specific to X or Y sex.

Ā 

You're wrong, Ashley. I know you hate to be wrong, but you are. Please google what cisgender means and read the results. The ones I've pasted here came from the first page so I want you to look past those! Thank you!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...