The Pledge of Allegiance.

[PastryOfApathy]

That behavior's been passed down from the 50's when people feared Communism. If you didn't say it as a kid back then, you and your parents would get scrutinized in the neighborhood.

Nowadays, it's forgotten why people HAD to say it instead of the reasons of "lol communism". 

BTW, the Pledge was written by a socialist. :V

He didn't pledge his allegiance enough. Fuckin' commies.

When I went to school no one ever really cared about it and later on schools just kinda stopped doing it all together. Of course Massachusetts is liberal hive of scum and villainy so I dunno or care really.

[Red Lion]

That behavior's been passed down from the 50's when people feared Communism. If you didn't say it as a kid back then, you and your parents would get scrutinized in the neighborhood.

Nowadays, it's forgotten why people HAD to say it instead of the reasons of "lol communism". 

BTW, the Pledge was written by a socialist. :V

 

 Ah, that makes sense. Probably wouldn't hurt for them to loosen up a little now that the red scare is long over. 

Really? I know people who would have a heart attack if they learned the writer was a socialist.

[Zeke]

He didn't pledge his allegiance enough. Fuckin' commies.
When I went to school no one ever really cared about it and later on schools just kinda stopped doing it all together. Of course Massachusetts is liberal hive of scum and villainy so I dunno or care really.

Southern states and Christian Schools in my area do it a lot. I went to a Quaker private school and they didn't care too much about it since they are also Liberal Scum. 

When I had a soccer game at one of the Baptist private schools, we had to sing the national anthem PLUS recite the pledge as well. Half our team was like "huh?".

I was called a demon by the opposing team for being too aggressive. They lost 2-1, and my captain made a quip that they didn't pray hard enough. 

 Ah, that makes sense. Probably wouldn't hurt for them to loosen up a little now that the red scare is long over. 

Really? I know people who would have a heart attack if they learned the writer was a socialist.

A  Socialist Christian Minister named Francis Bellamy and was originally written for the military to say. I think today they do not care as long as it isn't reverted to it's original form....which is just to take out the religious stuff. Or America would descend into Socialist Anarchy with faithlessness.  :V

Edited October 15, 2015 by Ozriel

[Kinharia]

you know what other nations outside of the 3rd reich showed respect for their flag?

every nation

the USA has every right to salute its flag in a fashion invented by french artists in the 18th century

There is a fine line between Respect and Worship. Flying a flag on cultural events, national holidays. That kind of stuff is respect towards a flag. Standing up and saluting it whils't singing a song about how much you love it everyday is Worship.

[PastryOfApathy]

A  Socialist Christian Minister named Francis Bellamy and was originally written for the military to say. I think today they do not care as long as it isn't reverted to it's original form....which is just to take out the religious stuff. Or America would descend into Socialist Anarchy with faithlessness.  :V

Yeah that's pretty much the crux of the issue. Most people wouldn't mind it being reverted since the whole god part is sorta 'iffy' and it's such a minor thing that it doesn't really make a difference either way. But it'll never happen because the religious right would go fucking nuts and crucify (heh) whoever supported it. That and they could very easily cockblock any kind of federal motion to change it since many republicans in more conservative areas who would support would be committing political suicide.

If anything it'll probably be a gradual thing where schools just kind of stop doing it on their own volition, or remove the god bit themselves since it only takes one complaint anyways.

[Dr. Doggo]

There is a fine line between Respect and Worship. Flying a flag on cultural events, national holidays. That kind of stuff is respect towards a flag. Standing up and saluting it whils't singing a song about how much you love it everyday is Worship.

but that doesn't even take 5 minutes, what's the big deal?

[Vallium]

I was a kid. I memorized the pledge. We did it every school morning. I didnt think anything of it.

 

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

Actually now that I think of it, when I was in the 3rd grade we had to sing the fucking National Anthem every morning. I'm sure that was against the rules, but the teacher made us do it anyways.

[Toshabi]

but that doesn't even take 5 minutes, what's the big deal?

Because our kids need to spend that time picking their noses and butts and learning about how Mr. Elephant made a poo that smelled so bad it killed his entire village of animal people. THEY'RE CORRUPTING OUR CHILDREN! THEY ARE TRYING TO TURN OUR KIDS INTO SOME... SOME... MACHINE THAT LIKE.... LIKES THEIR COUNTRY! IT'S BRAIN WASH! WE DON'T NEED NO EDUCATION! HEY! TEACHERS! LEAVE THEM KIDS ALONE!!!! 

[Butters]

I think it was George Carlin who said its better to teach kids to question what their told. 

I think that's more clever. 

[MuttButt]

To those of you saying that we have no right to complain because of how good we have it, I see your point, but i'll also say this: just because our shit stinks less than yours, doesn't mean it's not shit. Yes, our country allows it's citizens a lot of freedoms which we take for granted, which other folks would very much love to have, but it is ridiculous to say that we have no right to be critical about our country because of it. That's the whole fucking point of America in the first place. I hate to be mean but those of you who demand respect and reverence for our country and shout down anybody who dares to criticize "the land of the free and the home of the brave" are complacent and just downright foolish. I'm happy to be born in America, but i'm not proud, i'm not honored, and I certainly do not love my country. You can be grateful for the rights you have and still be critical of them, it's the only chance we have of keeping America from sliding further down the shitter than it already has.

As for the issue in the OP itself, I'll say that I don't really mind the pledge of allegiance, since no kid that ever says it ever really means it anyways, but the "under god" part is ludicrous and absolutely has to go. Also relevant  WKUK sketch

[Llamapotamus]

As a kid in Texas, I had to pledge to both flags and the Texas pledge had no mention of God. It was short and simple, and I liked it better. I just now found out the state legislature added "one state under God" to it in 2007. Welp...

And my grandma says she never did like the addition of "under God" in the '50s.

[DevilishlyHandsome49]

To those of you saying that we have no right to complain because of how good we have it, I see your point, but i'll also say this: just because our shit stinks less than yours, doesn't mean it's not shit. Yes, our country allows it's citizens a lot of freedoms which we take for granted, which other folks would very much love to have, but it is ridiculous to say that we have no right to be critical about our country because of it. That's the whole fucking point of America in the first place. I hate to be mean but those of you who demand respect and reverence for our country and shout down anybody who dares to criticize "the land of the free and the home of the brave" are complacent and just downright foolish. I'm happy to be born in America, but i'm not proud, i'm not honored, and I certainly do not love my country. You can be grateful for the rights you have and still be critical of them, it's the only chance we have of keeping America from sliding further down the shitter than it already has.

As for the issue in the OP itself, I'll say that I don't really mind the pledge of allegiance, since no kid that ever says it ever really means it anyways, but the "under god" part is ludicrous and absolutely has to go. Also relevant  WKUK sketch

^^ Finally, this comment to sum it up perfectly

I can't stand when people make the assumption that I don't have respect for the lives sacrificed to make this country, all because I think the US is currently shit

I can't stand when people say things like "The pledge isn't even that long. What's the big deal?" to completely dismiss the argument being made

And I definitely can't stand when people assume I'm not thankful for the rights I have here, all cause I say this country is shit. Yeah, I'm aware of the rights I have but I'm also aware of all the social injustices that some people have to deal with here in this country on a daily bases, and guess what? They "have" rights too, but they're still treated like garbage.

[Zerig]

actually I agree with OP

REMOVE PLEDGE

[Clove Darkwave]

Honestly it sounds more like a case of blindly wielding the tool of "question everything!" and silly levels of anti-patriotism that's becoming a major flaw in people I meet. I mean I get it, I grew up having to say the pledge and whatnot as a child but I eventually decided to just stop. I don't care about the Pledge of Allegiance, the flag, or any sort of patriotic whatever have you.

But then I'm also not so childish and blind to think the country is terrible. We should always strive to move upwards and onwards to greatness and betterment but one certainly doesn't achieve that by taking the mindset of a teenager.

[TrishaCat]

I'm a member of the US and grew up with this, and I don't really like it. I don't want to feel as if I have to have some allegiance to this country; what if I don't like it? Is it wrong of me to dislike my own country, or to want it to change? I mean its just that, it seems like its pushing kids to have blind faith in the country and the government. Reminds me of homework assignments I've seen kids have that do this.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Battlechili

[Clove Darkwave]

Don't worry Battlechili, if the Pledge doesn't get 'em when they're kids the Politicians will when they're adults.

[TrishaCat]

Don't worry Battlechili, if the Pledge doesn't get 'em when they're kids the Politicians will when they're adults.

I know you're joking, but kids are much more impressionable than adults. School is for teaching, not telling what they should think.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Battlechili

[Clove Darkwave]

Actually in regards to adults I'm joking and yet I'm not haha.

Go ahead and watch people talk about the candidates, you will understand.

 

Edit: Better yet, find the people that listen to talk radio. It's beautiful.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Clove Darkwave

[DevilishlyHandsome49]

I know you're joking, but kids are much more impressionable than adults. School is for teaching, not telling what they should think.

Thats creepy

[Skylar Husky]

As a kid in Texas, I had to pledge to both flags and the Texas pledge had no mention of God. It was short and simple, and I liked it better. I just now found out the state legislature added "one state under God" to it in 2007. Welp...

And my grandma says she never did like the addition of "under God" in the '50s.

As a fellow Texan, I can support what you say. We said it in my schools as well.

The Texas pledge:

Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state under God, one and indivisible.

Edited October 15, 2015 by Skylar Husky

[Wolflich]

 

Um, wow. I said the pledge all my life and am nothing like this. 

 

I think this falls hand in hand with people who thought letting their children watch pokemon or Harry Potter would turn them to witchcraft. 

 

Yeah, I think the majority of you guys fall into this line of thinking methinks. And you didn't even realize it. That's meta. Woah.

I mean, the public school I attended had (christian) religious classes and I have never been a christian either. If anything I think it made me resent them in later life for trying. It's not that it will necessarily work—it's easy if you know any number of Americans to see that many of them are not now patriotic at all, or people who had religious upbringings who are not (or are no longer) religious—but that it's being pushed on people by their nation when they do not fully understand the implications, regardless of whether it's actually successful. Personally, not having that kind of thing happen is one of those things that, now that I'm old enough to have formed an opinion on it myself, makes me appreciate my nation a bit more. Though they do lose some points for the scripture classes.

Pokemon and Harry Potter on the other hand are entertainment that children read/watch of their own accord for amusement, created for much the same reason. They're not shilling for any particular belief or real-world practice—as far as I'm aware—nor is there any pressure (except perhaps from their peers) for children to have anything to do with them if they don't want to.

[PastryOfApathy]

I know you're joking, but kids are much more impressionable than adults. School is for teaching, not telling what they should think.

To be fair, most of those are pretty true.

You can't seriously claim being the commander-in-chief is an easy job since I mean c'mon.
People in the US or the world in general sure as hell don't agree on everything.
The choices of the president (and the other two branches of government) do in fact affect everyone in some way, good or bad.
Number 4 sounds more like the Supreme Court but this is probably made for 1st graders who don't know what that is.
You do have to follow the law if you don't want to end up in jail, and school's can't exactly teach civil disobedience to a bunch of 8-year-olds whose idea of "civil disobedience" is staying up until 12 at night.
And number 6 is basically just a needlessly creepy, socialist-y sounding way to say "be nice and stuff".

Edited October 16, 2015 by PastryOfApathy

[Lisek]

Actually now that I think of it, when I was in the 3rd grade we had to sing the fucking National Anthem every morning. I'm sure that was against the rules, but the teacher made us do it anyways.

My fourth grade teacher, who was quite odd (and actually very mean) made us sing "You're a Grand Old Flag", which she played on her record player, a really cheesy version of it. Oh, and we had to march. She never even told us the words, so all of us couldn't even sing one specific part of the song. Damn, I hate that song now.

[LazerMaster5]

Sometime in high school I stopped reciting the pledge because I realized its stupidity. No, I do not pledge of allegiance. The only thing I pledge allegiance to is my family and friends. Why should I pledge of allegiance to a nation that has such a fucked up government? And why the God part? What happened to separation of church and state?

That being said, though, I still stand, albeit silent with my hands behind my back.

 

[Lucyfish]

I stopped saying the pledge of allegiance in high school. I was lucky enough to have a supportive US History teacher in the matter.

[Azure]

i just want them to take the whole under god bit out of the pledge

and stop making kids do it in schools

sure if a grown man wants to stand up at a baseball game and take off his hat let him

but children need knowledge not indoctrination

also america is pretty great, and people who think this country sucks need to crawl out of their moms basement and get some perspective because the internet isnt a replacement for actually knowing shit about your country

there are plenty of places i dont want to live

like europe, what a shithole

[PastryOfApathy]

i just want them to take the whole under god bit out of the pledge

and stop making kids do it in schools

sure if a grown man wants to stand up at a baseball game and take off his hat let him

but children need knowledge not indoctrination

also america is pretty great, and people who think this country sucks need to crawl out of their moms basement and get some perspective because the internet isnt a replacement for actually knowing shit about your country

there are plenty of places i dont want to live

like europe, what a shithole

USA

EUROPE

GET FUCKED AMERIFATS!

[Toshabi]

Europe is a broken link? That explains a lot about the people that live there.

[Guest]

I'm skipping everything above and just mentioning my thoughts about the PoA in general.

I think it's a little weird. I don't understand nationalistic pride. I especially don't understand national pride when there's horrible stuff said nation keeps condoning/encouraging. I understand my views are on more of a bias, since America tends to seem great by white, upper middle class dudes whereas everyone else just just 'eh'. My parents/family received a very unwelcome welcome years ago (but hey, it was the 1960s) and I was raised around being treated like a 'disgusting niglet' as one of my neighbors and many of her friends liked to call me when I was fairly young.

So, naturally, when I was forced to stand up every day and recite the thing, I omitted 'under god' and just did it to placate my weirdly nationalistic teachers and classmates. Most of the time I just never said it. I was in Texas, arguably the MOST Pro-USA state in the US, so obviously that earned me lots of beatings and whathaveyou. I can't wait for the day when 'under god' is finally struck down from our currency and pledge, but I'll probably be very old to finally see that happen. 

[Tsuujou]

I stopped standing and pledging in 7th grade. I would get strange looks from other kids for actually considering what it was I was saying rather than be a fucking drone. Not to mention it got monotonous. Some schools even made you sing the Star Spangled Banner. It's been so long since I've been in public school though. Even longer since I've even heard that stupid recital. I don't think I've ever heard even out of school. And thinking about it now as an adult, holy SHIT that is stupid as fuck.

EDIT: This thread actually really got me thinking about the concept as a whole and the small impact it made on me socially in school. I would have teachers attempt to force me to "at least stand" even though it wasn't against the rules to disobey that order. That would be fucked if it were. And the other kids looked at me like some sort of leper or draw ridiculous conclusions that I was some terrorist. I recall one teacher tried to viciously guilt my friend by saying he didn't care about the soldiers who died in Iraq.

Edited October 19, 2015 by XoPachi

[MalletFace]

There is a lot of fervent nationalism in the United States of America if you look for it. Even easier to find is the weaker and subtler nationalism.

Compare, for example, the optional pledge of citizenship of Norway

• "As a citizen of Norway I pledge loyalty to my country Norway and the Norwegian society, and I support democracy and human rights and will respect the laws of the country"

to the required Oath of Allegiance in the U.S.A.

• "I hereby declare, on oath, that I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty of whom or which I have heretofore been a subject or citizen; that I will support and defend the Constitution and laws of the United States of America against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I will bear arms on behalf of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform noncombatant service in the Armed Forces of the United States when required by the law; that I will perform work of national importance under civilian direction when required by the law; and that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; so help me God."

This is many times better than the crap that happened during the nativist, nationalist, and populist movements, but we do appear to be heading back in that direction in some areas.

That the U.S.A.'s Congress occasionally sees laws that would make it illegal for the Supreme Court to hear cases on such pledges just reaffirms this opinion for me. That the same Congress sees more wild laws makes this a scary issue for me.

[Toshabi]

This will be my last post on this thread, because the topic is kinda going stale.