I require help with monitors

[Lisek]

I realize that I have never actually bought a monitor in my entire life, and I've let any knowledge of them lapse from my memory (if I knew anything to begin with). There are a whole bunch of acronyms and terminology that give me a headache and I need some assistance finding a monitor that doesn't suck.

I ordered a monitor last week that I just sent back today because it had horrific ghosting no matter what. I suppose this is a side-effect of these IPS monitors? With the credit I will receive returning this sucker I want to purchase either of these two monitors: Option A or Option B. 

Option A is another of those IPS monitors, but a lot less reviews mention ghosting, and it apparently has a higher response time; however I'm still weary of IPS. Option B doesn't look as nice but it has a 2ms response time, is the image quality of this type of monitor (TN, I believe?) really so much worse than other types of LED monitors?

Of course, if anyone is currently using a 27'' monitor that is in the same price range and is absolutely amazing, I would appreciate recommendations.

[Wolflich]

I would probably go with IPS for a large monitor because the wider viewing angle can start to become important with the corners and edges if you're sitting close to it, as I assume you probably would. The one you're looking at has something like 1 000 reviews so I think if it had any terrible issues you could probably find out about them.

The response time is something that I think most people will never notice. It could be important if you are into competitive gaming at really high refresh rates, but for most people still using screens at 60Hz there's already gaps of about 16ms anyway and the 5-10ms grey-to-grey time the screen might have seems unlikely to be the worst of your issues then.

[Lisek]

Ghosting is unavoidable with your typical 60hz refresh rate at anything past ~24" and you will want to get a monitor with higher refresh rate the larger you go. Once you hit the 40" range, you want 120+Hz refresh.

How bad is the ghosting on your typical IPS monitor? The one I returned created massive shadows behind moving objects and I really don't want to return a second one for the same problem.

[Lisek]

That sort of serious ghosting sounds like a shitty cable connection.

Were you using HDMI? Don't. HDMI with computers and larger monitors is one of the worst things known. The chances of you getting 1:1 pixel-matched picture is very slim without doing all sorts of shit like disabling overscan on BOTH TV and GPU. What a fucking mess. DVI or VGA or DisplayPort only.

I didn't know this. I was using HDMI, because I thought DVI had lower video quality.

It seems I was mistaken. I believed that since most displays used HDMI it was superior, but it turns out the only reason it is so popular is because it carries audio - I don't need that.

I'll be going for the IPS monitor then. Thanks for all the help!

EDIT: Shit, the IPS monitor only has VGA and HDMI...

Edited December 7, 2015 by Lisek

[Lisek]

I believe I do have a digital only version. I've been looking around and IPS monitors don't have the ports I need (at least not on Amazon). I'm contemplating this one, which has excellent reviews, but it is not IPS, so I'm not sure whether to jump for it.

I'm starting to really hate technology right now.

[AshleyAshes]

Were you using HDMI? Don't. HDMI with computers and larger monitors is one of the worst things known. The chances of you getting 1:1 pixel-matched picture is very slim without doing all sorts of shit like disabling overscan on BOTH TV and GPU. What a fucking mess. DVI or VGA or DisplayPort only.

Erm, this statement is patently false.  In terms of video DVI and HDMI are effectively identical, you can even use passive pinout adaptors to losslessly convert HDMI to DVI.  HDMI is literally just DVI with audio, though later expansions were made to HDMI to allow higher resolutions on a single link, refresh rates and other sub features where as DVI has not been improved upon since.  But using HDMI does not cause any kind of overscan or other visual issues.  There is no difficulty in getting '1:1 Pixel Matched Picture' on HDMI in comparison to DVI.  Now, as an exception to this, I imagine that there are some displays, mostly TVs, that BEHAVE differently and activate some kind of overscan feature on the HDMI input, but this is the fault of the television's firmware design and not a signal issue.  This is also something you would NOT see on a PC monitor as by default they do not use any overscan for obvious reasons.  (less and less TVs have overscan too, but some totally still do)

[AshleyAshes]

"But using HDMI does not cause any kind of overscan or other visual issues.  There is no difficulty in getting '1:1 Pixel Matched Picture' on HDMI in comparison to DVI. "

I was an LCD repair tech for A&D electronics here in Riverside. Would you like me to go live video right now and show you why HDMI fucking sucks? I'll give you a live demonstration on the high-end IPS display in my living room, and I'll break out the digital microscope so you can SEE the sub-pixel misalignment that HDMI overscan often introduces, whereas my VGA connection does not.

Hell, a quick google search for HDMI overscan brings up pretty much nothing but articles on why HDMI overscan fucks your image up, on both TVs and regular computer monitors.

To boot, GPUs have their own overscan settings, usually enabled by default in drivers, for when HDMI is hooked up, because GPUs assume HDMI = TV, not regular monitor.

HDMI is a shit standard that could never make up its fucking mind, which is why in the short time span it has existed it's had more than half a dozen versions. Not one single computer I've had, with either nVidia or AMD GPU, has displayed across HDMI properly. Funnily enough, every console displays JUST FINE.

HDMI + Computers = bullshit. DVI sucks too, as a single-VGA cable gets you higher resolutions than a single DVI cable, and I can run a VGA cable a couple dozen meters and get full 2048x1536 resolution whereas DVI needs a repeater to get better than 1600x1200@60Hz past five meters.

Try again when, yet again, you actually do the bare component work. You're just a card swapper, Ashley. I work down to the panel level itself and break out fucking oscilloscopes.

Again, your statement is patently false.  HDMI signal are electrically identical to DVI-D signals, up until you get to the HDMI versions that exceed the older DVI-D spec.  Overscan is in no way a feature of HDMI.  While some hardware makes assumptions, that is the fault of poorly designed firmware.  And Overscan is certainly an issue on some models of TV.  Also in my experience, AMD drivers for some reason to not automatically enable their own overscan compensation on output over HDMI, at typical refresh rates, they do when 24hz is selected for some stupid reason.  ...Easily disabled.

If the OP was having overscan or underscan issues they would immediately notice their image in a black frame or their Start Button cropped off.  You're just presenting bad information to someone who's already having enough trouble making an informed purchase.

Also, your championing of VGA is weird.  Since a digital display has to process the analog RGBHV signal, there's always a matter of interpretation there and it will always be inferior to a digital connection.

[Luccus]

You should go for the ASUS MX279H, as it will display more vivid and life like colors and the 2ms is barely noticeable (< this comes from a person using a 144hz Monitor).
Use HDMI for connection as VGA is going to degrade your image. But don't forget to "tell" your graphics card to give out the full 0-255 RGB.

Now for the little discussion in here:

HDMI + Computers = bullshit. DVI sucks too, as a single-VGA cable gets you higher resolutions than a single DVI cable, and I can run a VGA cable a couple dozen meters and get full 2048x1536 resolution whereas DVI needs a repeater to get better than 1600x1200@60Hz past five meters.

VGA *will* degrade your image as it carries a analog signal. Theoretical this is good and would allow 'unlimited detail' but in reality the electrical signals will degrade and eventually become a mess and result in a washed out blurry image.

DVI-D is the (probably) best implemented digital standard for video throughput and tho' the most preferable on. It carries a digital-only signal meaning you A) get perfectly 1:1 image data or B) you get no image at all (Meanwhile VGA will just degrade and become shit over longer cables).

HDMI is also a good option and as Ashley pointed out is pretty much DVI+. But it's often used in TVs. This is the reason most graphics cards will assume you connected a TV and only will display 16-255 RGB. But thats easily fixed.

Displayport is a great option but Microsoft implemented it very poorly on everything < Windows 8.1, meaning you can have some weird issues there.

 

HDMI with computers and larger monitors is one of the worst things known. The chances of you getting 1:1 pixel-matched picture is very slim without doing all sorts of shit like disabling overscan on BOTH TV and GPU.

The following is a personal experience (and non-opinion free as overscanning can be an issue):
The only time I experienced overscan issues where on my raspberry pi. Thats it. No other projector, monitor or TV and GPU combination I've used had a problem.
So I'll say overscan issues are very unlikely.

 

You're just a card swapper, Ashley. [...] I work down to the panel level itself [...].

Yeah Ashley you are just a "card swapper" and prohibited by law to know anything except how to swap video cards.
And the video that shows absolutely nothing to prove anything regarding the quality of VGA vs DVI vs HDMI (or even about 6's workplace) shows that clearly.
Shame on you Ashley, shame on you :V

Sorry for that one 6. But this was stupid and far off the point.

[Kalmor]

Displayport all the way.

[Lisek]

I would go for the ASUS MX279H, but like I said, I'm afraid of ghosting, the last monitor left me paranoid about IPS displays.

But I'm also weary of the other monitors because I read reviews that with TN displays that large the edges of the screen will look dark if you sit close to it.

Those two things are really the crux of my problem.

Also the only monitor I found that has displayport is not IPS.

[AshleyAshes]

So, in conclusion, HDMI is just as fine as DVI and you won't tell the difference.  Also, since VGA is an analog signal, converting to analog to then have it go into a digital panel is of course a terrible idea and you should avoid it unless it's done out of pure utility.

 

On a total side note, I've actually avoided DisplayPort, in my previous combination of hardware when the monitor was turned off or put to sleep by the PC, the computer would believe that the monitor had been disconnected, thusly rejumbling the icons and windows across the other two monitors that were on other connections.  I found this annoying so I've only used DP via Active DisplayPort to DVI adaptors for my smaller monitors in conjunction with using HDMI on my large Asus PB278Q monitor.  But this is particular to my use case, seems not all combinations of graphics cards and monitors do this.  Don't even know if my new 390X does it since I saw no motivation to change the cables when I upgraded the graphics card.

Edited December 8, 2015 by AshleyAshes

[Lisek]

Welp, I'm going to go with the MX279H. If I have to return it because of ghosting I'm going to...be extremely aggravated. Thanks everyone for all your help and Cable War 2015.

[AshleyAshes]

I really don't get why you don't just go to a computer store and preview models in real life.

[Brass]

2 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

I really don't get why you don't just go to a computer store and preview models in real life.

Those don't exist in a lot of places. 

[Lisek]

20 hours ago, AshleyAshes said:

I really don't get why you don't just go to a computer store and preview models in real life.

Short answer is because I'm stupid. I'm double stupid because I live 10 minutes away from what is basically the entire city's Mecca of computer parts.

[AshleyAshes]

I mean, I'm all for shopping online, but some purchases require you to really see something to decide if you want it.  This is also how I feel on the new Steam Controller, could be pretty great for some games not usually used on the TV buuuut I'd really want to spend a few hours with one before I dropped $49 USD on one.

[Fantasma]

I have always just used small TVs at home, usually samsung 0.o

 

HDMI has never caused me an issue, though at work we have to deal with them carrying foreign voltage back to sensitive equipment.... But it won't affect any of your stuff.

[Foxxy]

Don't buy online because you don't know what happen to it during transport. Go buy it at a store, its the best solution. 

[Käpt'n]

On 8.1.2016 at 4:33 PM, Foxxy said:

Don't buy online because you don't know what happen to it during transport. Go buy it at a store, its the best solution. 

From my experience that is only a problem with UPS. They are in such a big hurry, I once had a huge gaping hole in a package because they threw it around so much.

[AshleyAshes]

My advice is to keep your boxes.  Lots of things the boxes don't help you when you move, but monitors are finicky things that certainly don't like stalking. I have four monitors and two TVs, having all the boxes with the fitted foam and everything is a god send for ensuring that they get to the next location in one piece.