Chaos in Cologne on New Year's Eve, refugee-crisis is escalating

[Clove Darkwave]

6 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

My sister just called me. Apparently my parents plan to rent their house to their state so they can get beaten and robbed.. 

ftfy

[Gamedog]

8 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

My sister just called me. Apparently my parents plan to rent their house to their state so they can put in 10 refugees for 25€ per day for each person.

Nope. I have to stop this madness o_O Fortunately my parents never go through with their cockamamie plans... 

The last time someone did that, the rapefugees destroyed the house, smashed in the windows, chased out the homeowners and threatened to kill them

[Dr. Doggo]

Just now, Gamedog said:

The last time someone did that, the rapefugees destroyed the house, smashed in the windows, chased out the homeowners and threatened to kill them

are you saying you won't give up your daughter's body for 10 * 25 euros per day?

[Käpt'n]

I don't live there anymore but my sisters are both panicking about it. 

[Dr. Doggo]

Just now, Käpt'n said:

I don't live there anymore but my sisters are both panicking about it. 

for real though you should drive your sisters out of there or something.

[Gamedog]

1 minute ago, Käpt'n said:

I don't live there anymore but my sisters are both panicking about it. 

Your sisters will be sexually assaulted, guaranteed

[Dr. Doggo]

I hear Austria's nice this time of year, they're selling old rifles like candy.

[Käpt'n]

Just now, Sir Gibby said:

for real though you should drive your sisters out of there or something.

My parents want to rent a smaller house to live in... This idea is so stupid but they probably just see the money. We worked so hard for that house after the other one burned down in 1999 and now they want refugees to trash it?

[Gamedog]

1 minute ago, Käpt'n said:

My parents want to rent a smaller house to live in... This idea is so stupid but they probably just see the money. We worked so hard for that house after the other one burned down in 1999 and now they want refugees to trash it?

Still think we need to help these people?

[Dr. Doggo]

Just now, Käpt'n said:

My parents want to rent a smaller house to live in... This idea is so stupid but they probably just see the money. We worked so hard for that house after the other one burned down in 1999 and now they want refugees to trash it?

this is what you get when you're a nation of people who beg for everyone else to bend over asscheeks parted until you find that you too will have to put your ass where your mouth is

[Gamedog]

People are always super open and friendly until shit gets flung into their backyard. Then the whole goddamn world has to stop

[Käpt'n]

5 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

Still think we need to help these people?

Yes. But it's the government's job to find shelter for them.

[Dr. Doggo]

5 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

Yes. But it's the government's job to find shelter for them.

Where? There's nowhere. This is why they have that program. Germany is full. Why else do you think Frau Merkel is funnelling them towards other EU members after she gave out her invitation?

C'mon, we're socialists. You have to do your part!

Edited January 15, 2016 by Sir Gibby

[Gamedog]

2 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

Yes. But it's the government's job to find shelter for them.

Why? lol
So they can rape girls elsewhere?

You seem to have taken a "not in my backyard" stance after recieving this news.Your sisters are terrified, and despite this you STILL want these people in your country.
Why, is it okay if they rape other girls not related to you? Cause that's what is happening, and that's what will happen.

[Saxon]

24 minutes ago, Sir Gibby said:

holy shit I'm so sorry

got any of that zyklon-b still laying around? should get a book about plumbing, too

...That's just disgusting, Gibby. 

 

 

@Käpt'n I am surprised your house can accommodate 10 people. 

Edited January 15, 2016 by Saxon

[Dr. Doggo]

2 minutes ago, Saxon said:

@Käpt'n...That's just disgusting, Gibby.

Well they come from a third world country, I think they'd appreciate the free de-lousing programme. HCN pellets were designed for use indoors, releasing the gas gradually as to not harm the handlers.

[Gamedog]

Saxon, what are your thoughts on Kapt'ns family's generosity?

[Saxon]

I can only imagine how frustrating it is for actual Germans that any discussion about how to treat refugees is poisoned by foreigners bringing up Nazi Germany. 

I'm not even German, and it makes me cringe. 

[Dr. Doggo]

Just now, Saxon said:

I can only imagine how frustrating it is for actual Germans that any discussion about how to treat refugees is poisoned by foreigners bringing up Nazi Germany. 

I'm not even German, and it makes me cringe. 

People are compared to Nazis for posting that Britain feels "full up" on twitter, might as well embrace it.

[jcstinks]

2 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Cultural enrichment all across europe

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3397264/Denmark-latest-country-report-surge-women-groped-groups-migrants-locals-say-Syrians-nuts-girl.html?ito=social-facebook

I would be super careful about using the Daily Mail as a reference, their journalistic integrity is on par with tabloid newspapers like The Star or The National Enquirer.

44 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

Still think we need to help these people?

It's a tricky situation. These are people who are culturally backwards; they live in a world that's centuries behind our own.

My thoughts for taking in refugees are:

1. If we don't take them in, they will probably commit just as many, if not more, abuses at home.
2. Even sinners need to be saved; you don't have to be a good person to be a victim.
3. Many people are innocent of these abuses, and should not be denied their right to safety from war.
4. Taking them in may eventually "reculture" the group. In time, we can support a growing group of educated, middle-class Syrians who can do good for themselves here and in their former country, bringing it out of the dark ages.

[Saxon]

@jcstinks Really? Reports of sexual molestation of European women by Arab men are now so common place that I don't think it's necessary to exercise skepticism about the newspaper's reputation. It's not as if the DailyMail is making a very bold claim, in this instance; they may as well report that the Sun rose in the East today. 

Edited January 15, 2016 by Saxon

[jcstinks]

13 minutes ago, Saxon said:

@jcstinks Really? Reports of sexual molestation of European women by Arab men are now so common place that I don't think it's necessary to exercise skepticism. It's not as if the DailyMail is making a very bold claim, in this instance; they may as well report that the Sun rose in the East today. 

Everything needs to be held to skepticism. Especially something as sensational racially-based mass rapes. We tend to believe what we hear repeated, regardless of the source. So the more we hear something, the more we should keep up our guard against intellectual laziness.

And while there is no doubt that sexual molestation by Arab men is occurring, simply because some people commit sexual molestation, and all Arab men are people. Therefore, it is highly likely that some Arab men commit this heinous act. However, we cannot be sure of the extent to which it occurs compared to the general population.

To give an example from earlier in this thread, there was a widely-reported story of 30 Syrian refugees who hesitated to get off their bus into their new homes in Sweden. Because of these 30 people, an assumption was made that Syrians refugees, are ungrateful. In reality, 30 refugees may have been ungrateful. Perhaps they were afraid to move into a new place. Perhaps they were entitled and boorish. We can't know. But what we can know is that people will assume based off this very small sample. And I just don't want people to do that.

[Käpt'n]

I just called my parents. Honestly? The whole thing doesn't sound all that bad.
The state takes full responsibility for everything that happens inside the house. My dad is also a cop, he's been inside homes where refugees from Syria live and everything is clean and nothing is broken.
As a cop he also got some numbers about what happened in Cologne on New Years Eve. Only 3% of the attackers were refugees from Syria. The remaining 97% were peole from northern Africa and the more ass backwards middle eastern countries like Iraq or Iran.
There is a hostel owner in Hamburg, they put 700 refugees in his hostel. He gets 20€ per person every day. That's 14.000€ per day! 5 million per year! And he doesn't have to do anything for it! And the state is required by law to completely renovate the hostel after 5 years.

I didn't know about the risks and my sister completely overreacted. Under those circumstances I would consider this as well!
The house of my parents has 4 living rooms on the top floor, a large kitchen, a large living room, a storage room and two bathrooms. The state can easily put a large Syrian family of 10 people in there.

[Saxon]

Just now, jcstinks said:

Everything needs to be held to skepticism. Especially something as sensational racially-based mass rapes. We tend to believe what we hear repeated, regardless of the source. So the more we hear something, the more we should keep up our guard against intellectual laziness.

And while there is no doubt that sexual molestation by Arab men is occurring, simply because some people commit sexual molestation, and all Arab men are people. Therefore, it is highly likely that some Arab men commit this heinous act. However, we cannot be sure of the extent to which it occurs compared to the general population.

To give an example from earlier in this thread, there was a widely-reported story of 30 Syrian refugees who hesitated to get off their bus into their new homes in Sweden. Because of these 30 people, an assumption was made that Syrians refugees, are ungrateful. In reality, 30 refugees may have been ungrateful. Perhaps they were afraid to move into a new place. Perhaps they were entitled and boorish. We can't know. But what we can know is that people will assume based off this very small sample. And I just don't want people to do that.

The DailyMail's report is itself based on a Danish newspaper called 'the local' and interviews conducted by TV-Syd. 

I am quite frustrated when people dismiss genuine reports because they think they are too closely associated with news outlets they dislike, rather than because they have a genuine reason to believe there is cause for doubt about the report's claims.

This is a form of fallacy called 'ergo decedo'

 

 

 

 

[jcstinks]

2 minutes ago, Saxon said:

The DailyMail's report is itself based on a Danish newspaper called 'the local' and interviews conducted by TV-Syd. 

I am quite frustrated when people dismiss genuine reports because they think they are too closely associated with news outlets they dislike, rather than because they have a genuine reason to believe there is cause for doubt about the report's claims.

This is a form of fallacy called 'ergo decedo'

I'm not dismissing the report, I'm saying to be careful about which source you put forward. The Local is a more reputable reference than The Daily Mail. The Daily Mail is known as a non-journalistic outlet, and is not held to the same standards, as say, The New York Times or The Washington Post.

Even in such case as my suggestion was guilty of ergo decedo, I'd also argue that fallacious (hee hee) arguments can arrive at correct conclusions; it's wise to avoid the form of fallacy called "argumentum ad logicam."

[PastryOfApathy]

9 minutes ago, Saxon said:

The DailyMail's report is itself based on a Danish newspaper called 'the local' and interviews conducted by TV-Syd. 

I am quite frustrated when people dismiss genuine reports because they think they are too closely associated with news outlets they dislike, rather than because they have a genuine reason to believe there is cause for doubt about the report's claims.

This is a form of fallacy called 'ergo decedo'

I think often times it's less dismissing it because they have a grudge against the outlet and more that they're hesitant to 100% believe a story they've only seen covered on that particular outlet.

For example someone wouldn't be so willing to completely believe all the details in a Fox News report on for example the Militia situation out west, but if a report from say NPR or the BBC said the same things then they would believe it like anything else. It's just being cautious when dealing with organizations known for having a history of bias and being overall shit.

Same reason if someone links to something on like breitbart.com or god forbid infowars or something, I'm going to look into it myself before I take any of it at face value.

Edited January 15, 2016 by PastryOfApathy

[Saxon]

Just now, jcstinks said:

I'm not dismissing the report, I'm saying to be careful about which source you put forward. The Local is a more reputable reference than The Daily Mail. The Daily Mail is known as a non-journalistic outlet, and is not held to the same standards, as say, The New York Times or The Washington Post.

Even in such case as my suggestion was guilty of ergo decedo, I'd also argue that fallacious (hee hee) arguments can arrive at correct conclusions; it's wise to avoid the form of fallacy called "argumentum ad logicam."

I think we should be pragmatic about our criticism of sources, so that we criticise a source when we actually have reason to doubt the claim. Otherwise this impedes conversation with meaningless technicalities which don't actually relate to the discussion [kind of like this discussion!]

In another thread I refereed to a poll commissioned by Fox news, and a several-page argument resulted about how no poll commissioned by fox could be trusted, because one of their reporters once disagreed with the scientific consensus on climate change- which had absolutely nothing to do with the validity of the Poll. People ended up criticising the poll because it was from Fox news, rather than because they thought the findings were unbelievable or that the poll had been fixed. 

[Gamedog]

18 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

I just called my parents. Honestly? The whole thing doesn't sound all that bad.
The state takes full responsibility for everything that happens inside the house. My dad is also a cop, he's been inside homes where refugees from Syria live and everything is clean and nothing is broken.
As a cop he also got some numbers about what happened in Cologne on New Years Eve. Only 3% of the attackers were refugees from Syria. The remaining 97% were peole from northern Africa and the more ass backwards middle eastern countries like Iraq or Iran.
There is a hostel owner in Hamburg, they put 700 refugees in his hostel. He gets 20€ per person every day. That's 14.000€ per day! 5 million per year! And he doesn't have to do anything for it! And the state is required by law to completely renovate the hostel after 5 years.

I didn't know about the risks and my sister completely overreacted. Under those circumstances I would consider this as well!
The house of my parents has 4 living rooms on the top floor, a large kitchen, a large living room, a storage room and two bathrooms. The state can easily put a large Syrian family of 10 people in there.

What will your lovely country do when your sisters are raped? How long will it take for them to acknowledge that it happened, let alone report on it?

 

You're taking money in exchange for these people destroying your country

Youre turning a blind eye for a couple euro

[Saxon]

I think often times it's less dismissing it because they have a grudge against the outlet and more that they're hesitant to 100% believe a story they've only seen covered on that particular outlet.

For example someone wouldn't be so willing to completely believe all the details in a Fox News report on for example the Militia situation out west, but if a report from say NPR or the BBC said the same things then they would believe it like anything else. It's just being cautious when dealing with organizations known for having a history of bias and being overall shit.

Same reason if someone links to something on like breitbart.com or god forbid infowars or something, I'm going to look into it myself before I take any of it at face value.

 

I agree completely. I look into the report myself, and only bother criticising the post if it turns out the report is in error. 

I suppose the exception is when someone links to a website which is clearly a conspiracy site, but you know, that's rather apples and oranges to this situation. x3

[Saxon]

?Kind of related.

Dutch soldier could be prosecuted for 'murder' for joining Kurdish force and killing Islamic state fighters.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-35327313

[Käpt'n]

43 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

What will your lovely country do when your sisters are raped? How long will it take for them to acknowledge that it happened, let alone report on it?

 

You're taking money in exchange for these people destroying your country

Youre turning a blind eye for a couple euro

Raped by who? Syrian refugees? As I said, the amount of criminal Syrian refugees is tiny. I should be more concerned about them getting raped by Germans than by Syrian refugees. They are not a problem. They try to integrate themselves. "Refugees" who don't come from warzones and who come here just to be mooches, those are the real problem.

I agree with you that being completely open to refugees isn't right and that is exactly how we got into this mess. But we have to be realistic here, they are not all evil.

[Saxon]

@Käpt'n The rest of us cannot tell whether the '3%' figure is correct, since it has not been disclosed to the wider public in a police report. 

In either case, I am unsurprised that North African men who are mooching off of Germany and taking up resources meant to help war victims are responsible for a Lion's share of the sexual assaults. 

[Käpt'n]

25 minutes ago, Saxon said:

@Käpt'n The rest of us cannot tell whether the '3%' figure is correct, since it has not been disclosed to the wider public in a police report. 

In either case, I am unsurprised that North African men who are mooching off of Germany and taking up resources meant to help war victims are responsible for a Lion's share of the sexual assaults. 

You always got some black sheep in the mix, but yeah I'm honestly not surprised as well.

And it makes sense, Syrian refugees are coming from a warzone, African refugees come here because their home just sucks. Of course the latter is gonna attract more criminals...

[PastryOfApathy]

2 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

You always got some black sheep in the mix, but yeah I'm honestly not surprised as well.

And it makes sense, Syrian refugees are coming from a warzone, African refugees come here because their home just sucks. Of course the latter is gonna attract more criminals...

That is absolutely true.

Still don't want them in my fucking house though.

[Gamedog]

40 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

Raped by who? Syrian refugees? As I said, the amount of criminal Syrian refugees is tiny. I should be more concerned about them getting raped by Germans than by Syrian refugees. They are not a problem. They try to integrate themselves. "Refugees" who don't come from warzones and who come here just to be mooches, those are the real problem.

I agree with you that being completely open to refugees isn't right and that is exactly how we got into this mess. But we have to be realistic here, they are not all evil.

"Refugees" in general. Your sisters are far more likely to be raped by gangs of "refugees" than Germans nowadays, considering rape-gangs are a part of Muslim "culture".

 

If you want to turn a blind eye, go ahead, just don't come back here and cry when shit happens.

[Dr. Doggo]

Any Swedes wanna translate or give me more detail on these?

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/stor-explosion-i-lagenhetsomrade/

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/stor-explosion-i-lagenhetsomrade/

http://avpixlat.info/2016/01/07/asylsokare-bakom-terrorsprangning-i-stockholmsforort/

Apparently asylum seekers detonated a bomb in Stockholm, killing 10 people. This occured either the 6 or 7th January. But relatively few people, even in Sweden actually know about this, so I'm reading. There's a pattern here with the murders, mass sexual assaults, and now a bombing when it comes to these refugees and european journalism...

 

 

Edited January 15, 2016 by Sir Gibby

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, Sir Gibby said:

Any Swedes wanna translate or give me more detail on these?

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/stor-explosion-i-lagenhetsomrade/

http://www.expressen.se/nyheter/stor-explosion-i-lagenhetsomrade/

http://avpixlat.info/2016/01/07/asylsokare-bakom-terrorsprangning-i-stockholmsforort/

Apparently asylum seekers detonated a bomb in Stockholm, killing 10 people. This occured either the 6 or 7th January. But relatively few people, even in Sweden actually know about this, so I'm reading. There's a pattern here with the murders, mass sexual assaults, and now a bombing when it comes to these refugees and european journalism...

 

 

'Ten people are reported injured, 2 are in intensive care'. The last source reports the men to be asylum seekers. 

 

~google translate

[Käpt'n]

10 hours ago, Gamedog said:

"Refugees" in general. Your sisters are far more likely to be raped by gangs of "refugees" than Germans nowadays, considering rape-gangs are a part of Muslim "culture".

 

If you want to turn a blind eye, go ahead, just don't come back here and cry when shit happens.

Yes, North African refugees. Not by Syrian refugees.

I understand your concerns. But we can't forget about showing some compassion for people who did nothing wrong. 

[Gamedog]

5 hours ago, Käpt'n said:

Yes, North African refugees. Not by Syrian refugees.

I understand your concerns. But we can't forget about showing some compassion for people who did nothing wrong. 

You're implying that Syrian "refugees" aren't doing this shit

they are

youtube Calais refugee camps

 

your "compassion" will get your sisters raped and your family robbed.

[Zeke]

16 hours ago, Gamedog said:

"Refugees" in general. Your sisters are far more likely to be raped by gangs of "refugees" than Germans nowadays, considering rape-gangs are a part of Muslim "culture".

 

If you want to turn a blind eye, go ahead, just don't come back here and cry when shit happens.

It's not really part of Muslim culture, but ingrained in most African cultures, and even to some extent branched into the middle east. In some places in Africa (and clans in the middle east), rape is the same a marriage. 

Blaming a religion or religious group for horrible and abhorrent behaviors IMO is basically using a scapegoat to absolve people of their responsibility. It's shitty people doing this, and it happens to be that those shitty people are refugees taking advantage of the "goodwill" of the German government and the fear that doing something would make them look like the US, 

[Gamedog]

30 minutes ago, Zeke said:

It's not really part of Muslim culture, but ingrained in most African cultures, and even to some extent branched into the middle east. In some places in Africa (and clans in the middle east), rape is the same a marriage. 

Blaming a religion or religious group for horrible and abhorrent behaviors IMO is basically using a scapegoat to absolve people of their responsibility. It's shitty people doing this, and it happens to be that those shitty people are refugees taking advantage of the "goodwill" of the German government and the fear that doing something would make them look like the US, 

Actually it is a part of Muslim culture, there's a word for it, Saxon mentioned it earlier.

 

 

it other news

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/635167/migrant-sex-attacks-refugees-grope-schoolgirls-Austria-Salzburg-Cologne-rapes-Merkel

[Saxon]

20 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Saxon, what are your thoughts on Kapt'ns family's generosity?

I don't really have any views on it, because I'm obviously not privy to their family discussions; this is their lookout, not mine. 

It's not really part of Muslim culture, but ingrained in most African cultures, and even to some extent branched into the middle east. In some places in Africa (and clans in the middle east), rape is the same a marriage. 

Blaming a religion or religious group for horrible and abhorrent behaviors IMO is basically using a scapegoat to absolve people of their responsibility. It's shitty people doing this, and it happens to be that those shitty people are refugees taking advantage of the "goodwill" of the German government and the fear that doing something would make them look like the US, 

...erm, this is definitely part of Muslim culture, because women are uniformly regarded as second-class citizens in sharia law and Muslim doctrine. 'Africa' is irrelevant. 

-Women inherits only half what her brother does  

-Nations under Sharia law routinely refuse to prosecute domestic abuse of women 

-A woman's testimony is only worth half of a man's in court 

-Child marriage still represent a significant minority of marriages in the middle east, because sharia courts can over-rule civil marriage rules

-Women who complain of rape are regularly prosecuted for adultery, and rapists can escape prosecution if they marry their victim.

 

Islam clearly does have big problems with equal treatment of the sexes. It is unfair to use Africa as a scapegoat. O_o 

 

Edited January 16, 2016 by Saxon

[Half-Note]

That this happens goes to show that you should be careful about the process of letting people join your society.

Of course the SJW-bandwagon is already rolling with arguments about why it's A-OK since it's part of the Middle-Eastern culture, and that we in layman's terms have to embrace this kind of behavior in our society, otherwise we're labeled as racist bigots.

Not all refugees are bad, but when you're sloppy with the process, some bad refugees will get through, perhaps even agents of the opposition being among them, and that's how we end up with situations like this and Paris.

Edited January 16, 2016 by Half-Note

[Gamedog]

2 minutes ago, Half-Note said:

That this happens goes to show that you should be careful about the process of letting people join your society.

Of course the SJW-bandwagon is already rolling with arguments about why it's A-OK since it's part of the Middle-Eastern culture, and that we in layman's terms have to embrace this kind of behavior in our society, otherwise we're labeled as racist bigots.

Not all refugees are bad, but when you're sloppy with the process, some bad refugees will get through, perhaps even agents of the opposition being among them, and that's how we end up with situations like this and Paris.

Errr

no

we (I'm not a sjw btw) are bringing up the fact that this is Muslim culture -- as a reason to NOT let these people into your country

[Saxon]

Just now, Gamedog said:

Errr

no

we (I'm not a sjw btw) are bringing up the fact that this is Muslim culture -- as a reason to NOT let these people into your country

I doubt Half-note was referring to you; he was likely referring to officials in Europe who are encouraging native Europeans to understand that different cultures have different values, as if this in any way reduced culpability when crime does occur. 

 

[Half-Note]

2 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

Errr

no

we (I'm not a sjw btw) are bringing up the fact that this is Muslim culture -- as a reason to NOT let these people into your country

Well, then we agree. >.>

Of course, moderate muslims are aces in my book. But the ones demonstrating for Shariah Law in my neighborhood, nopenopenopenopenopenopenope.

[Saxon]

I draw the line when people start getting doctors to snip their sons' genitals to please god. Like...ergh.

[Gamedog]

"Moderate Muslims" are few and far between if you consider sharia law to be extremism

[Saxon]

Just now, Gamedog said:

"Moderate Muslims" are few and far between if you consider sharia law to be extremism

A large number of Muslims in Muslim countries support shariah, but I sort of suspect that a lot of them aren't familiar with all the details and only say they support it because 'it's the Muslim thing to do'. 

Support for shariah is a significant minority, but less so in the west. My real concern is that very few Muslims in the west support free speech, including the criticism of religious doctrines- many will respond that criticism of religious doctrines should be considered hate speech, when polled. 

[Gamedog]

Support for sharia is actually the majority of Muslims, but I agree with the rest of your post