nationality Head Hair/Eyes

[GemWolf]

25 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

You can be black without being African 

the actual proper name is East Asian but whatever

Hence why I said etc etc etc....

25 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

"white" is describing the skin colour and is not a negative descriptor 

Caucasian! Not white! 

25 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

a white child born to black parents is an abnormaliry

how is ths offensive to you?

There are many reasons why this can happen, I wouldn't go calling it abnormal wihout knowing all the facts!

How the hell did we go on to babies being born? Keep on topic please! 

and I never said it offends me 

[Gamedog]

Just now, GemWolf said:

Hence why I said etc etc etc....

I suppose it depends on what you consider each term to cover

for me personally it's like this:

black = black race

different shades of skin are found in black race which could be considered "brown"

i hate the term "brown people" because it's so incredibly vague. I imagine most people use it to describe East Indians, but  then again I've also seen it used to describe middle easterners?

middle easterners are Caucasian aka white, even if their skin is tan in colour

east Asians can have white skin but they are not Caucasian. I've seen so-called PC people refer to East Asian as "yellow people", which is horribly offensive and racist

i would not say they are white people because I consider "white people" to mean Caucasian race. I would say they have white skin or light skin though

[GemWolf]

10 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

I also want to point out that "African" when being used to describe someone who is black is incorrect because you have middle easterners to the north (Egypt and shit, whites) and South Africa which has many whites

Jezuz I picked African as "one" example. If I listed all the nationalists that have darker skin I'd be here all day. Stop nit picking 

[Gamedog]

4 minutes ago, GemWolf said:

 

There are many reasons why this can happen, I wouldn't go calling it abnormal wihout knowing all the facts!

How the hell did we go on to babies being born? 

Read the article please....

 

ans i I brought it up because it's showing abnormalities in birth

a white baby being born to black parents is not a sign that blacks are evolving into whites 

[GemWolf]

3 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

Read the article please....

 

ans i I brought it up because it's showing abnormalities in birth

a white baby being born to black parents is not a sign that blacks are evolving into whites 

I read the artical. That is one case and one case only. As i said there are many reasons for this. The whole conversation  we were having had nothing to do with birth what so ever.

We are talking about eyes, hair etc. please keep on topic 

[Gamedog]

Oh my lord I'm done here

havea nice night 

[GemWolf]

Thank god! 

[Saxon]

Edit: misquoted somebody.

 

Europeans have a much larger variety and in-group variation of pigment genes than most other human populations. In some European populations 4 out of 10 people carry the red hair gene for example. This is a gene which is virtually non-existent outside of Europe and the areas of Mediterranean Africa historically inhabited by Europeans (such as the Vandal Empire).

Plotting maps of the occurrence of different hair and eye pigmentation reveals that many pigments are almost exclusive to Europeans, where a significant portion of the population exhibit them. They are almost unknown outside, excepting exotic mutants or mixed-race individuals. The only other group of humans in which more than 10% of people have natural  fair hair are the Austroloid pacific islanders.

 

Why are Europeans so weird compared to other human populations? That's an active scientific question.

There are several hypotheses, which I can explain if necessary. Some users have already suggested the 'founder population' hypothesis, whereby the sub-sampling of a larger group might select an exotic combination of genes and therefore makes it more likely for recessive genes to manifest (almost all pigment genes are recessive compared to black and brown pigments).

There are several other hypotheses, and I think the best supported is Peter Frost's sexual-selection hypothesis, which posits that high male mortality in ice age Europe subjected ancestral European women to increased sexual selection by the few remaining men, facilitating the evolution of 'prestige pigmentation' in women as an attention-seeking mechanism to attract males. This explains why European women are more likely to exhibit fair pigmentation than European men.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/228627175_European_hair_and_eye_color_A_case_of_frequency-dependent_sexual_selection

Pleiotrophic association of pigment genes with the metabolism of cereals and alcohol is another potential explanation (human pigmentation changed rapidly about 5000 years ago in Europe following the switch from a heavily meat and fish based diet to a cereal-based one)

The founder effect alone is not sufficient to explain the rapid changes in European pigmentation. Though it may have been part of the story, selection must have been driving some of these changes, because many of them swept the continent rapidly.

9 hours ago, Gamedog said:

I've seen so-called PC people refer to East Asian as "yellow people", which is horribly offensive and racist

 

Compared to Europeans, East Asians posses a thicker cuticle with more Carotene, a yellow pigment, which is why people perceive their skin colour as having a bronze, golden or yellow hue.

Nobody should be offended by that.

 

11 hours ago, Khaki said:

It's called Interbreeding.

 

The scientific term you're looking for is 'founder effect'.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Founder_effect

or the 'Wahlund effect'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wahlund_effect

Beware non-scientists; there is maths afoot!

 

[GemWolf]

1 hour ago, Saxon said:

<snip>

That's actually really cool! Thanks for sharing that  

[Endless/Nameless]

[GemWolf]

2 minutes ago, Endless/Nameless said:

 

[Cingal]

I've always found it odd, how often people jumble together the races into "White" and "Black".

Gaels, for example are drastically different from Slavs in appearance, yet would still be regarded as "White".

 

Races have very different physiological traits, hair and skin being a particularly notable one.

 

Personally, I'm blond(Ish) with blue(ish) eye.

[Vallium]

6 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Evolutionary changes happen over a very very long period of tine

one baby being born with blue eyes to Japanese parents is an abnormality and not a sign of an evolutionary change

 

justvrecently I saw something about two 100% black people giving birth to a white child. This is an abnormality for blacks

If by "abnormality" you mean an uncommon trait, then yeah. Abnormality implies that it isnt normal, but its not like being born with lighter eyes or skin is necessarily non-human, that would be examples of the recessive traits I was talking about, the parents despite not having light eyes or skin themselves can carry the gene and pass it on, those uncommon traits showing are the abnormalities

 

 

As for the terms for "race", I see neither black nor white as offensive, theyre just vague catch-all terms and each individual is highlighted by intricate backgrounds and diversities. All it really is is a description of physical traits, not what the person themselves is and the stereotypes accompanied by it, those would come with the culture various groups of blacks or whites are involved in

[Saxon]

Have some shitty mspaint pie charts I made to illustrate the discussion.

Africans and Asians have almost no variation in hair and eye pigmentation. Whilst there are small number of black africans with brown or blond hair, they are exceedingly rare; the population at large almost entirely has black hair.

Europeans and Austroloids, by comparison, have a significant amount of variation. The European pie chart has greater variance than the Austroloid pie chart.

[Socketosis]

4 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Have some shitty mspaint pie charts I made to illustrate the discussion.

I like that you used the circle tool but not the line tool.

[Gamedog]

@Saxon the term "yellow" when referring to east Asian people is an actual slur, which is why it makes me uneasy

same goes for redskin

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, Gamedog said:

@Saxon the term "yellow" when referring to east Asian people is an actual slur, which is why it makes me uneasy

same goes for redskin

'Yellow' doesn't have that connotation here. I was going to say I think taboo words are silly anyway, but if I'm honest I avoided using the words 'Negroid' and 'Mongoloid' on my pie chart to avoid people immediately make accusations of racism, even though they would be far more accurate words than 'African' and 'Asian' and they don't actually entail any nastiness.

So I am a hypocrite.

 

[Gamedog]

my dad consistently uses both of those words as slurs, very annoying when you want to have a serious conversation about races

[willow]

10 hours ago, Gamedog said:

I have never seen a black person

FTFY :V

10 hours ago, Gamedog said:

When someone says "natural black hair" what do you think?

describe it to me. And describe the most common natural black hair

typical black natural hair is in fact wavy or curly, there's no argument there. but it's not the only type of natural hair that exists

 

[Gamedog]

 perfectly straight hair or slightly wavy (types 1 and 2) are so incredibly rare that it's considered an abnormality, if they occur at all in black people

unfoetunately nobody wants to back up their sources sooo

[MalletFace]

6 hours ago, Saxon said:

Those users are wrong.

Nobody "suggested that people only perceive greater variation in pigmentation in Europeans." Lemon actually linked to a summarized version of the Frost paper, and Lemon never denied anything it says.

6 hours ago, Saxon said:

Nobody should be offended by that.

It is offensive in the U.S. and Canada because of issues surrounding things like the Chinese Exclusion Act and laws banning East Asians from having weapons. Its just a history thing people probably won't forget, so I guess one ought to here.

Also, I feel the high amounts of the pigment in some East Asian peoples makes them more orange and red than yellow. It takes really low concentrations of any carotenoid to look any kind of yellow.

11 hours ago, Gamedog said:

I did say never, I have never seen a black person with blue eyes or straight hair naturally, therefore it is an abnormality. Lemon said that "sometimes" people of X race have X trait and therefore it's normal and common? Why use phrase "sometimes" if it is commonplace?

I never said the straight hair wasn't an abnormality across the whole of Africa. It is. I pointed out a region in which it isn't quite so abnormal.

I also pointed out that light eyes aren't abnormal in Central Asia up into Siberia. They are quite common among Turkic and Tungusic peoples.

I don't get what you're on about.

11 hours ago, Gamedog said:

And describe the most common natural black hair

Made of artisanal fusilli spirale.

[Saxon]

16 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

 

unfoetunately nobody wants to back up their sources sooo

https://ia800204.us.archive.org/27/items/cu31924014120814/cu31924014120814.pdf

Book published in 1920 on physical anthropology implies that Negroid Africans almost invariable have tightly coiled hair, and that when populations without this feature are found it is almost inevitable evidence that they have mixed with a non-negroid population.

7 minutes ago, MalletFace said:

Nobody "suggested that people only perceive greater variation in pigmentation in Europeans." Lemon actually linked to a summarized version of the Frost paper, and Lemon never denied anything it says.

 

Ah, I incorrectly interpreted Lemon's comment that 'cross race bias is a thing', as an explanation for the OP's question. I didn't visit all of her links.

[Snagged]

3 hours ago, Saxon said:

Have some shitty mspaint pie charts I made to illustrate the discussion.

Africans and Asians have almost no variation in hair and eye pigmentation. Whilst there are small number of black africans with brown or blond hair, they are exceedingly rare; the population at large almost entirely has black hair.

Europeans and Austroloids, by comparison, have a significant amount of variation. The European pie chart has greater variance than the Austroloid pie chart.

If the long process of evolution caused the skin pigment of Africans/Australians to be black, why shouldn't hair be black too? Black as a color (or lack of,  if technical) absorbs heat from sunrays the least and the heat could be very detrimental to a human body, especially when radiated right towards your cranium and thus brains. You get a lot sunlight and heat throughout the year after all. It all makes sense. 

In Europe, up in the upper northern hemisphere you are exposed to sunrays less evenly and even have to endure winters when all the heat you can absorb or store is beneficial. White skin does that better than dark. There even was an ice age recently that must have left its evolutionary mark on us, like, having mostly white humans survive the ice age and having them pass on their genes forward

As for Australians, your ancestors brought their genes from Europe so you have some European variance going on there

I am not sure if I should have made this post but I felt obligated to chime in

 

 

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, Snagged Cub said:

If the long process of evolution caused the skin pigment of Africans/Australians to be black, why shouldn't hair be black too? Black as a color (or lack of,  if technical) absorbs heat from sunrays the least and the heat could be very detrimental to a human body, especially when radiated right towards your cranium and thus brains. You get a lot sunlight and heat throughout the year after all. It all makes sense. 

In Europe, up in the upper northern hemisphere you are exposed to sunrays less evenly and even have to endure winters when all the heat you can absorb or store is beneficial. White skin does that better than dark. There even was an ice age recently that must have left its evolutionary mark on us, like, having mostly white humans survive the ice age and having them pass on their genes forward

 

As for Australians, your ancestors brought their genes from Europe so you have some European variance going on there

I am not sure if I should have made this post but I felt obligated to chime in

 

 

'Austroloids' are not European Australians. It is a name for the indigenous dark-skinned people from Australia and the pacific islands.

Anyway, Black actually absorbs more heat from the sun than bright colours, which reflect the light away. (that is why they appear bright).
Some creatures use this physics to their advantage, for example some species of saharan ant have silver hair on their bodies, to reflect the harsh desert sun away from them.

Humans did not evolve pale skin in order to 'absorb heat'; humans generate their heat internally from metabolic reactions. Populations living in mid and high latitude have pale skin so that the action of sunlight on the skin can facilitate the formation of essential vitamin D.

[Snagged]

Quote

Populations living in mid and high latitude have pale skin so that the action of sunlight on the skin can facilitate the formation of essential vitamin D.

Yes, I forgot about vitamin D and now that I think about it, you are correct

Also, this made me think of benefits of these dark skin over light tanned skin. Dark skin blocks UV radiation from the sunlight better than light than while not missing on vitamin D because warmer climates near them equator overall get more sunlight than in upper northern hemisphere so a person with dark skin living near equator can "afford to waste" more sunlight. And when a person is exposed to a lot of sunlight throughout the year, a good UV protection is essential. 

Now, what were we talking about in the first place? 

[GemWolf]

[Zeke]

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, Zeke said:

I often feel sad when people post pictures like this:

 

 

because they're usually sufferers of ocular albinism (top) or odd genetic diseases like Waardenburg syndrome (middle and bottom, with a characteristic 'skunk-stripe' hair pigmentation).

Ocular albinism is an unpleasant disease associated with partial sightedness and potential hearing problems.

Waardenburg syndrome, by comparison, is associated with limb and facial deformity, deafness and dysfunctional intestines; it can be fatal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_albinism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waardenburg_syndrome

 

[Zeke]

3 hours ago, Saxon said:

I often feel sad when people post pictures like this:

 

because they're usually sufferers of ocular albinism (top) or odd genetic diseases like Waardenburg syndrome (middle and bottom, with a characteristic 'skunk-stripe' hair pigmentation).

Ocular albinism is an unpleasant disease associated with partial sightedness and potential hearing problems.

Waardenburg syndrome, by comparison, is associated with limb and facial deformity, deafness and dysfunctional intestines; it can be fatal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocular_albinism

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waardenburg_syndrome

 

There's a family with that genetic mutation, but they are all mentally unstable in one form or another. 

However, there are "true" genetic traits of blacks with blue or green eyes. It's a recessive trait and rare in families with caucasian bloodlines, but it happens. 

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, Zeke said:

There's a family with that genetic mutation, but they are all mentally unstable in one form or another. 

However, there are "true" genetic traits of blacks with blue or green eyes. It's a recessive trait and rare, but it happens. 

Yep. I don't know whether ocular albinism is more or less common than 'true-blue'? People with ocular albinism probably get photographed more because their eye colour is bluer-than-blue.

 

[Zeke]

3 hours ago, Saxon said:

Yep. I don't know whether ocular albinism is more or less common than 'true-blue'? People with ocular albinism probably get photographed more because their eye colour is bluer-than-blue.

 

Probably, and blue is pretty to some. 

[Socketosis]

8 minutes ago, Saxon said:

because they're usually sufferers of ocular albinism (top) or odd genetic diseases like Waardenburg syndrome (middle and bottom, with a characteristic 'skunk-stripe' hair pigmentation).

 

I think the 'skunk-stripe' is actually kind of cool looking...

[GemWolf]

Those kids are adorable. I just wuv them!

This thread I so interesting. It has really opened my eyes. I love it

[GemWolf]

I would also like to add, that I envy people with dark skin. Especially Africans and African Americans. Their skin is so beautiful, hardly any blemishes, smooth and shiny. When I was younger I always wished I had dark skin, still do. Also, they can wear any color clothing and it always looks amazing on them. So jealous!   

[Proper noun]

19 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Evolutionary changes happen over a very very long period of tine

one baby being born with blue eyes to Japanese parents is an abnormality and not a sign of an evolutionary change

 

justvrecently I saw something about two 100% black people giving birth to a white child. This is an abnormality for blacks

I think its like a 1 in a 1,000+ chance for that to happen. Can't remember for sure though.

[Saxon]

I had a relevant experience to this thread. I was recently in Bermuda, the first majority-black country I've been to.

In my week there I met a black woman who had the most beautiful hazel eyes, just as I was leaving the country.

[Tsuujou]

White girls are pretty.
So are Asian women. And blacks. And Hispanic ladies.The men are pretty spiffy too.

The variety is very good and stuff.
But this is the prettiest of them all...