Rave - The Old Days

[CreatorNerd]

I don't know what happened to the old days when I'd ask for art and communication was very frequent between commissioner to artist, yet nowadays, at least for me, the delays can be frustrating. I'm not saying I'm impatient yet there was more than a few times I'd commission or ask for an artist and everything would be fine and going smoothly and then they'd disappear off the face for years or would get back to you every few months. And it's even more frustrating when it's hard to tell whether I should communicate with them since the stuff in their gallery seems frequent. I guess what I am saying that it sometimes feels like going into the lottery whenever I bother to ask people for something and wish those days would be over.

[Saxon]

I don't understand artists who take a long time working on commissions and never talk to their customers. I did a free commission for a friend, because the original artist never finished. I finished in a week and sent him pictures at each stage so he could recommend changes. 

 

When a geology society 'commissioned' me (I undertook the work for free but they still listed it as commission) I sent them iterations of the images for review and they hardly ever replied. That one did drag on for months, but at least it wasn't because I was avoiding them. 

[Endless/Nameless]

I think the problem is how artists are so butthurt all the time. Whether it's too many people asking for requests, some random repost, or "da haterz", they're just constantly in a "they're all out to get me!" state of mind now that makes them think they can do whatever they want, in whatever timeframe they want, regardless of anyone else's desires.

Not to say that their concerns aren't valid, I'm quite sure they are; but I think they've all circlejerked themselves into this entitled "fuck everybody but me" mentality.

But then again I almost never commission anything, so it's not like I actually know what i'm talking about...

There was someone on newFAF that was asking for characters to draw for anthro practice, so I agreed to let her do mine.
A month later, still nothing. Go figure.

Edited April 16, 2016 by Endless/Nameless

[CreatorNerd]

1 hour ago, Endless/Nameless said:

I think the problem is how artists are so butthurt all the time. Whether it's too many people asking for requests, some random repost, or "da haterz", they're just constantly in a "they're all out to get me!" state of mind now that makes them think they can do whatever they want, in whatever timeframe they want, regardless of anyone else's desires.

Not to say that their concerns aren't valid, I'm quite sure they are; but I think they've all circlejerked themselves into this entitled "fuck everybody but me" mentality.

But then again I almost never commission anything, so it's not like I actually know what i'm talking about...

There was someone on newFAF that was asking for characters to draw for anthro practice, so I agreed to let her do mine.
A month later, still nothing. Go figure.

I'm getting to this sort of mentality too, though I do have a circle of artists on a commission speed dial, if you will.

[Vae]

Complexity of a piece can take time. A single-pose, single-character work of mine can sometimes take 20+ hours.

Furthermore, on top of that, if money has not been exchanged, artists don't owe you jack shit. This includes responses and inquiry.
And especially includes free requests.

You get what you pay for, as they say.
And if you've paid nothing, expect nothing.

[willow]

sure lack of communication can be frustrating, but it happens. life happens

[Summercat]

Whew lawdy.

Artist don't owe you anything until you've paid or posted a payment somewhere. If they're "pay when done" then they're working on spec.

And I've seen commissioners who pretty much harass artists for not getting the work done... before any sort of reasonable amount of time has passed.

And that's not including the Hirtes of the world. That was a piece of work.

[CreatorNerd]

14 hours ago, Vae said:

Furthermore, on top of that, if money has not been exchanged, artists don't owe you jack shit. This includes responses and inquiry.
And especially includes free requests.

I'd agree with that yet many years back I did send money for a commission and after two months of no sketches or anything on their page updating their page, I contacted them about it and they gave the money back, but still.

[Summercat]

6 hours ago, NerdyMunk said:

I'd agree with that yet many years back I did send money for a commission and after two months of no sketches or anything on their page updating their page, I contacted them about it and they gave the money back, but still.

Was a deadline or timeline mentioned? I've had to wait three months for some art to be done, but that was specified ahead of time.

[Saxon]

21 hours ago, Vae said:

Complexity of a piece can take time. A single-pose, single-character work of mine can sometimes take 20+ hours.

Furthermore, on top of that, if money has not been exchanged, artists don't owe you jack shit. This includes responses and inquiry.
And especially includes free requests.

You get what you pay for, as they say.
And if you've paid nothing, expect nothing.

If someone agrees to do something for free and then never replies, they are still in breach of proper etiquette. 

[Misomie]

I like buying art a lot~

I'm dealing with one reputable artist that just went *poof* but for the most part turnaround is nice. One artist even went and finished a beautiful pic within hours of me sending my payment (by beautiful I mean fullbody, high detail, awesome background). I buy from a few people that take awhile but I don't mind. I do love buying from the speedy ones though~

[CreatorNerd]

47 minutes ago, Summercat said:

Was a deadline or timeline mentioned? I've had to wait three months for some art to be done, but that was specified ahead of time.

It wasn't anywhere in their terms of service.

[Vae]

54 minutes ago, Saxon said:

If someone agrees to do something for free and then never replies, they are still in breach of proper etiquette. 

People's lives get in the way. And I will state again that if you've paid nothing, expect nothing.

Unless you're compensating them via money, art trade, whatever the fuck per agreement beforehand, you're really not in a position to demand anything from them.

A request is a gift, not a service.
And people are not obligated to give you their time of day.

7 hours ago, NerdyMunk said:

I'd agree with that yet many years back I did send money for a commission and after two months of no sketches or anything on their page updating their page, I contacted them about it and they gave the money back, but still.

Did you send the money before you made prior agreements with the artist, or did you just send it and go "I want [x]. Here's my money"?

Your word use implies the latter.
And if that's the case, that was your fault.

If not, yes, they should have communicated better.

[Endless/Nameless]

14 minutes ago, Vae said:

People's lives get in the way. And I will state again that if you've paid nothing, expect nothing.

Unless you're compensating them via money, art trade, whatever the fuck per agreement beforehand, you're really not in a position to demand anything from them.

A request is a gift, not a service.
And people are not obligated to give you their time of day..

So you're saying if you tell someone you'll do something, it's totally a-ok to just not? Just break your word at your convenience? I wouldn't want anything to do with a person like that; I wouldn't be able to trust a word that came out of their face.  

Yeah, of course no one is always able to do everything they set out to, but I would say you are obligated to own up to it. If you have to let someone down, be a man and tell them. Take the blame. Apologize. 

[Vae]

46 minutes ago, Endless/Nameless said:

So you're saying if you tell someone you'll do something, it's totally a-ok to just not? Just break your word at your convenience? I wouldn't want anything to do with a person like that; I wouldn't be able to trust a word that came out of their face.  

Yeah, of course no one is always able to do everything they set out to, but I would say you are obligated to own up to it. If you have to let someone down, be a man and tell them. Take the blame. Apologize. 

It depends on the situation.

"I'll totally bring drinks to the party!" and not doing it is largely different than "I'll draw you a picture!" and then not doing it.
Some situations cause actual reliance upon others for event planning and the like. This is important.
Making someone gift art per request is not.

So I'm standing by what I said.
You aren't obligated to create free request art, at any point, ever.

[Summercat]

2 hours ago, NerdyMunk said:

It wasn't anywhere in their terms of service.

Its usally not in a TOS but the discussion. It falls on you to ask about how long until you should expect a prelim sketch, if the information is not offered.

[CreatorNerd]

35 minutes ago, Summercat said:

Its usally not in a TOS but the discussion. It falls on you to ask about how long until you should expect a prelim sketch, if the information is not offered.

It also falls on the artist to post their queue as well in which they didn't so I really was not in the know.

[willow]

2 minutes ago, NerdyMunk said:

It also falls on the artist to post their queue

no it doesn't

it's courteous and maybe helpful, but artists don't have to do that if they don't want to

[Summercat]

Just now, NerdyMunk said:

It also falls on the artist to post there queue as well in which they didn't so I really was not in the know.

The artist may or may not share their queue. What they could do is give an estimate as to how long it'll be for your specific piece, or when you should hear back from them.

If you don't get that from them, then it is your responsibility to ask. The other party failing to provide information does not absolve you of asking for it.

[Feelwell]

While not required, it's to both the artist and commissioners benefit to give at least an estimate, or a queue if possible. Saves awkward questions and worries. 

I personally really don't like asking someone if they're making progress on something I asked them to do, but on the other hand feel that nothings happening, or wondering how long I'll be waiting.

So they're not obligated but it helps everyone. Even a gift could be "it'll be awhile, im quite busy recently."

[Summercat]

1 minute ago, Feelwell the Rabbit said:

 

So they're not obligated but it helps everyone. Even a gift could be "it'll be awhile, im quite busy recently."

Indeed, but it is also up to the commissioner to ask for progress. 

I do feel like you do and that I don't want to nag someone, but sometimes you have to poke once and a while for some updates. 

[Vallium]

2 hours ago, Vae said:

It depends on the situation.

"I'll totally bring drinks to the party!" and not doing it is largely different than "I'll draw you a picture!" and then not doing it.
Some situations cause actual reliance upon others for event planning and the like. This is important.
Making someone gift art per request is not.

So I'm standing by what I said.
You aren't obligated to create free request art, at any point, ever.

I agree with what you said that artists are never obligated to make free art. However, what others on the thread have been trying to get at is if they said they're going to do art, they could  communicate rather than ignore. Its totally within their power and right as an artist to tell someone "I changed my mind. I dont want to do it. No thank you". Rather than leave someone. Sure, theyre not obligated, but the general rule of etiquette, as fallow put it,  in any situation would be if youre going to say youre going to do something, hold up to it...an explanation to why not is a courteous response to not doing something you said you were, even if its"I dont feel like it"

[Vallium]

While on the subject, especially if paid artists owe some turnout or viable reason for the delay. Qualifying life events would be valid whereas "I dont feel like it" wont cut it. I mean, they took someone's money, so if the commissioner dont get return then theyre not being an artist.

At least in NerdyMunks situation he'd gotten refunded his money, a fair compromise

 

And I dont mean to hold artists at fault here because commissioners are easily just as bad if not worse. Each party has a set of standards to upheld and not be inconsiderate or rude