Computer Career?

[Crazy Lee]

So I've decided to make a push to get back into school. Visited the one I'm likely to attend today. I'm planning on going for a Computer Programming/science degree. I have to admit though I'm nervous about trying to apply for jobs in it. I have some irrational fears about going into it.

My first fear is that I'll get a job and they'll already be expecting me to know more than I do. They'll just hand me paperwork explaining what complex module they want written and expect me to write it perfectly the first time. Entry level, what's that? I do have some computer classes already under my belt but I would say I'm pretty rusty and I only know the basics. The "programs" most classes seem to expect you to write at universities are pretty bare bones and simplified. So I'm not exactly experienced enough to write an entire complex program from scratch.

Second fear is that I'll get some stressful job I hate. I want a good work/life balance. 9-5 is not perfect but would be adequate. But I sometimes hear horror stories of people working 100+ hours. Bosses emailing at all hours of the day when I just want to turn off the damn phone and have some me time. Deadlines everywhere!

And then I don't know if I'll actually ever get a tech job. I fear being rejected over and over again. But I have no idea what other career to go into. None.

About my skill level and knowledge so far, I have some classes in C++ and Java up to the 200 university level, or I guess the OOP programming level, some data manipulation and sorting, objects, limited networking, databasing. I've done a bit of Android coding in Java. I know some HTML, CSS, and Javascript, but my web development skills are better suited at coding... I kinda suck at designing sites because I have limited artistic skill. I've dabbled in SQL databases, a bit of PHP, took some language classes where we touched on assembly, haskell, lisp, fortran, and stuff like that.

I do sometimes impress myself where I have gone above and beyond with class projects like in the Android class where I actually made a program fully functional.

@ArielMT, @DrGravitas, you two are the two people on here I know do coding/IT. I think there are others. Any thoughts and suggestions?

[DrGravitas]

It's a huge field out there and one that's in demand. You'd be in a good position to find a job that fits your needs, if you're willing to move around to find it. It's true that the university won't provide you everything you'll need to know but a lot of the larger companies provide fairly extensive on-boarding programs to get you up to speed on the technologies they use (especially since a lot of the consulting ones have in-house developed software solutions they push.)

As for being rejected? My project currently has (as programmers) a computer science major (myself), an information systems management major, several electrical engineers, an automotive engineer, and a physicist. And no, we don't work on electrical systems, cars, or physics (well, I mean, everything works on physics but you get what I mean).

Now is every IT-related job going to be like that? Of course not, but I guarantee you if you're competent enough to get an advanced degree, you're competent enough to hold a job somewhere in this field. Your skill set isn't anything special, but it's a great foundation. And, in all honestly, I suck at website design too. I prefer backend code stuff. Which is great because I slot in nicely on my project doing just that!

[Toshabi]

1 hour ago, Crazy Lee said:

I'm planning on going for a Computer Programming/science degree.

Worthless. Go for certifications and work your way up. Study on your own time for the programming stuff, but honestly, that shit is boring. Get something in network/security. That'll make you not want to kill yourself like programming does. The only people who can stand programming jobes are people who were born without a personality like @ArielMT

[Crazy Lee]

22 hours ago, Toshabi said:

Worthless. Go for certifications and work your way up. Study on your own time for the programming stuff, but honestly, that shit is boring. 

I already have two associates degrees, one in web design/development, and one in Java programming. I have heard in the past from a local IT networking group that I should consider getting IT certifications rather than a bachelors, which sounds like a good idea because less classes... That being said I do want to get a bachelors for completeness sake

Also, the local colleges don't seem to have IT certification courses anymore, for Microsoft or Cisco or anything like that. Instead they have certificates like Computer Systems Technology, Foundations of Computer Security, Foundations of Information Systems, Linux/UNIX Systems, Principles of Cybersecurity, Computer Networking Academy, Mobile Device Programming, Web Database Programming. Seems I'd have to go to some diploma mill to get a cert nowadays.

In any case, like the local IT group I am not a big fan of higher education, I'd rather just start a job and get trained than sit in a classroom doing mandatory classes in science or math or accounting or business communications.

Speaking of math, a lot of the regular universities I have looked at link Computer Science with their science or engineering department and thus require like 10 levels of advanced calculus. I have taken beginning calculus... about 10 years ago. My math skills aren't the greatest. How much math do you guys actually use in a given day? I would thing that unless I'm programming the rocket to Mars I don't need advanced calculus.

22 hours ago, Toshabi said:

Get something in network/security.

Hmm. What kind of background credentials do they need for security, anyway? Do you need a bunch of background checks and government clearance, or do they care about that shit?

 

Also, tagging some other people. @george99g @Sylver @Feelwell the Rabbit @Socketosis @Wax

[Feelwell]

1 hour ago, Crazy Lee said:

Speaking of math, a lot of the regular universities I have looked at link Computer Science with their science or engineering department and thus require like 10 levels of advanced calculus. I have taken beginning calculus... about 10 years ago. My math skills aren't the greatest. How much math do you guys actually use in a given day? I would thing that unless I'm programming the rocket to Mars I don't need advanced calculus.

 

Help I can't remove tags in a quote @Sylver @Feelwell the Rabbit @Socketosis @Wax

An issue I have too. While I can do decent math if it's applied in a certain way, I'm by no means very geared towards it, and have my fair share of issues, mainly visualizing it. I understand that in video games especially it's very, very important for everything from aspect ratio to collision. However in other types of programs I'm not sure how much you'd need to know.

[Toshabi]

1 hour ago, Crazy Lee said:

I already have two associates degrees, one in web design/development, and one in Java programming. I have heard in the past from a local IT networking group that I should consider getting IT certifications rather than a bachelors, which sounds like a good idea because less classes... That being said I do want to get a bachelors for completeness sake

Also, the local colleges don't seem to have IT certification courses anymore, for Microsoft or Cisco or anything like that. Instead they have certificates like Computer Systems Technology, Foundations of Computer Security, Foundations of Information Systems, Linux/UNIX Systems, Principles of Cybersecurity, Computer Networking Academy, Mobile Device Programming, Web Database Programming. Seems I'd have to go to some diploma mill to get a cert nowadays.

In any case, like the local IT group I am not a big fan of higher education, I'd rather just start a job and get trained than sit in a classroom doing mandatory classes in science or math or accounting or business communications.

Speaking of math, a lot of the regular universities I have looked at link Computer Science with their science or engineering department and thus require like 10 levels of advanced calculus. I have taken beginning calculus... about 10 years ago. My math skills aren't the greatest. How much math do you guys actually use in a given day? I would thing that unless I'm programming the rocket to Mars I don't need advanced calculus.

Hmm. What kind of background credentials do they need for security, anyway? Do you need a bunch of background checks and government clearance, or do they care about that shit?

 

Also, tagging some other people. @george99g @Sylver @Feelwell the Rabbit @Socketosis @Wax

By the time you're finished for your BA, the info you learned will be out of date. While its a decent foundation, the amount of debt it puts you in isn't worth it. Unless for programming, but even then, certifications can get you a job in the field of IT and will put you in a position to do much more satisfying work. Even if you're doing programming for #GameDesignCareer, you'll be joining the 99% of people who will be in it for that very reason which most of them won't even make it to developing code for a shitty 10000 games in 1 flash game. 

 

Most certification courses can be taken/learned up online. Well, to some degree. You'll have to go to some testing facilities to take your examination. And it usually costs somewhere around 100~200 buckaroonies to do so. 

 

Fuck math and fuck college lol. It's a money sink. You'll be drowning in debt to learn something you can read off wikipedia (Half my comp sci classes were this). You don't need any background credentials for Network/Security. Take the comp TIA security+ certification exam and you'll pretty much be on the road. You'll land something 40K+ easy for entry level shit just for that. Maybe a little less depending on where you work. With Ransomware on the fucking rampage, the demand for people with those certification credentials is off the fucking chain right now. I swear to god, the people who interviewed me for my current gig didn't care about college. They wanted to know where I was certs wise. A+ cert and me studying for my comp security+ got me hired with the promise of an even higher paying job in the future when i finish my certification training.

 

Fuck college, seriously. I'm at my current IT gig with literally all Graphic Design poured into my college education path while others in there got their 4 year in comp sci. It's fucking useless and agonizing pain that will land you a mediocre programming gig at a job you'll hate. Network security will probably put you in a much more favorable/exciting (?) career path. 

[DrGravitas]

Different companies and jobs have different requirements and needs. If IT and infrastructure is more your path, certifications are probably better (I'm nit as familiar with that route). In more of a direct programming development or support role, college might be better. My company, for example, only hires people who have at least a bachelor's degree in a science or engineering discipline and a 3.0 GPA. You do have to scrutinize the quality of the education program offered by a college as they are not all the same. Some are more cookie-cutter or won't be able to provide you with a deep grasp of the subject than you can get online or through your own studies. I was quite satisfied with the quality of my program. Finally, you also need to consider what learning style suits you best. Some people just learn better through class structures.

[Wax]

I can't really be of much help in terms of careers either, as I'm just starting out in university. Pretty much everything I'd tell you has already been said by Gravitas and Toshabi, too

[DrDingo]

I'm doing a Computer Science degree. 

There's a dickload of stuff you can do at the end of it, so it doesn't have to be programming. You could be a Requirements Engineer or a System Analyst and instead interact with customers for a living

The biggest pull factors are that you're needed in every big business and you get a lot of money for doing it. But the basic trade off goes like this: The more money you're paid, the more the job will suck your soul out of you

[ArielMT]

Programming isn't really my profession; I mainly do it as a personal hobby, and I have so many unfinished works as a result, but I still love reading and learning about it.  My day job is computer and Internet tech support, and although I am at times a workaholic, I spend much less than 50 hours a week actually working.

You mentioned a list of languages you're familiar with, but are you familiar with popular version control systems as well?  I've heard that colleges don't really teach them well, and my personal experience (admittedly before dropping out because of insurmountable financial aid problems) was a single period of one class being taught and playing with RCS.

[Nomris]

I'm finalizing my bachelor degree, but it's in Europe so take what I say with at least two grains of salt.

The thing about getting the bachelor degree is that you do NOT learn anything directly useful, as has been said, because it will be outdated.
What it SHOULD teach you is the foundations of programming. Different kinds of patterns, frameworks, fundamentals of programming really.
You should also get to learn how applications get developed, such things as Agile, Development->Testing->Acceptance->Production cyclus, difference and relations in Business, Technology and Application.

IF they teach you all these fundamentals, and you are competent enough with the required skillset (such as teamwork and research) the requirements should be met for any programming job.

The beauty of it is that it is a BROAD field full of possibilities, you need so many people if you want to construct a decent leak-proof system.

Front-end, Back-end, Analyst, Security, Moderator, Infrastructure, Graphic design... The list goes on and on. And even then, within the front-end there are plenty possibilities: language, structure, tooling, etc..

So IF you like working with computers, IF you like googling your ass off (at least heavily for the first 4-5 years if you don't move on to new technologies (Don't leave the exceptions and errors out)) and IF anything I said motivates you. I'm pretty sure you will enjoy it.

PS: Do not fear that you probably don't know how to build an application, there are plenty of people that DO know how to (else you'll be able to find a way around it, that's what you are a programmer for). My internships so far I knew NOTHING about the thing I was about to create, which can be very intimidating at first, but rewarding later. Looking back at them is part of what keeps me going and growing as a software engineer.

[DrGravitas]

2 hours ago, DrDingo said:

The more money you're paid, the more the job will suck your soul out of you

Seriously, though, everybody learn these words: Work-Life Balance.

Asking how the company culture supports that is a great question for your interviewer.

[Wax]

26 minutes ago, DrGravitas said:

Wow, I'm definitely gonna have nightmares tonight

[Sergalus]

On 1/5/2017 at 5:31 AM, Crazy Lee said:

So I've decided to make a push to get back into school. Visited the one I'm likely to attend today. I'm planning on going for a Computer Programming/science degree. I have to admit though I'm nervous about trying to apply for jobs in it. I have some irrational fears about going into it.

My first fear is that I'll get a job and they'll already be expecting me to know more than I do. They'll just hand me paperwork explaining what complex module they want written and expect me to write it perfectly the first time. Entry level, what's that? I do have some computer classes already under my belt but I would say I'm pretty rusty and I only know the basics. The "programs" most classes seem to expect you to write at universities are pretty bare bones and simplified. So I'm not exactly experienced enough to write an entire complex program from scratch.

Second fear is that I'll get some stressful job I hate. I want a good work/life balance. 9-5 is not perfect but would be adequate. But I sometimes hear horror stories of people working 100+ hours. Bosses emailing at all hours of the day when I just want to turn off the damn phone and have some me time. Deadlines everywhere!

And then I don't know if I'll actually ever get a tech job. I fear being rejected over and over again. But I have no idea what other career to go into. None.

About my skill level and knowledge so far, I have some classes in C++ and Java up to the 200 university level, or I guess the OOP programming level, some data manipulation and sorting, objects, limited networking, databasing. I've done a bit of Android coding in Java. I know some HTML, CSS, and Javascript, but my web development skills are better suited at coding... I kinda suck at designing sites because I have limited artistic skill. I've dabbled in SQL databases, a bit of PHP, took some language classes where we touched on assembly, haskell, lisp, fortran, and stuff like that.

I do sometimes impress myself where I have gone above and beyond with class projects like in the Android class where I actually made a program fully functional.

@ArielMT, @DrGravitas, you two are the two people on here I know do coding/IT. I think there are others. Any thoughts and suggestions?

Wow your situation seems similar to mine. I also have this fear of failling my first job. This is why Im still unsure if I go with programming or smth else, I already study IT. Question is will ever find job. Im a scrub.

[Lopaw]

I'd personally go with the compTIA , those Cisco ones or any large industry recognised course that isn't a degree, having nearly chosen to do a CCNA myself.

Given how degrees have become devalued too much now I'd suggest only getting one if you will hit a glass ceiling at work without one, I'm skirting around a degree in engineering myself.