Red Lion Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 My mom likes these old European westerns, they're about a Native American called Winnetou, they are horribly dubbed into English, in one of them the audio actually switched to the original German for a scene before going back into really crappily synced English. and they make my dad all kinds of uncomfortable. First off, we have a white, blue-eyed french guy as our Native American character . Dad is of Cherokee descent and his heritage is important to him. He's not fond of hearing the painful broken English coming out of the Native American characters or heavy "noble savage" themes. In short this shit is kind of racist and while my dad is far from sensitive this kind of thing does really bother him. When he tried to say something to my mom she started crying about how she's not allowed to enjoy anything and my dad backed down and told her "nevermind". When it came up again my mom was all "Why should it bother him? It's just a movie!!!". Jesus Christ woman, your husband is part of a Native American nation with impoverished relatives who live on a reservation and you're watching a movie that is p flagrantly racist in its depiction of Native Americans. Yeah, these movies make me cringe too, and the fact that Dad has outright said they make him angry should be all you need to know that maybe there's something wrong with watching a French-German actor parade around in brown make-up and a bad wig. I mean really? You don't see ANYTHING wrong with this? http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Film-BILDBAND-Winnetou-und-Shatterhand-im-Tal-der-Toten-KArl-MAY-WESTERN-60er-LP-/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/KQ0AAOSwDk5T4hld/$_57.JPG UGH. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerig Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 If you don't like a movie you don't have to watch it. I assume he's not being held at gunpoint? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossa Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 That's curious that this genre is so big in Europe, or was. Going out west, to various national parks in Utah and Montana, I noted that it seemed like half of the visitors were from Europe, and were very much into the 'western'/cowboy iconography/mythos; I would imagine it would seem exotic, or unusual. Having lived on the east coast a few decades now, when I go out west, it certainly feels a lot more western. But in any event, I wonder what makes your mom so attracted to these films? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lion Posted January 13, 2017 Author Share Posted January 13, 2017 47 minutes ago, Zerig said: If you don't like a movie you don't have to watch it. I assume he's not being held at gunpoint? that's not really the issue, it's more the fact that this is something that does bother him, is objectively offensive, and his wife flat out refuses to put it away while he's around. It's one of those things that should be kind of obvious. @Fossa-Boy I honestly have no idea, but the guy who wrote the novels was very popular in Germany and the films, back in the sixties and seventies had a big following. Most people nowadays will agree that the depiction of Native Americans is pretty inaccurate and offensive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hux Posted January 13, 2017 Share Posted January 13, 2017 5 minutes ago, Fossa-Boy said: That's curious that this genre is so big in Europe, or was. Going out west, to various national parks in Utah and Montana, I noted that it seemed like half of the visitors were from Europe, and were very much into the 'western'/cowboy iconography/mythos; I would imagine it would seem exotic, or unusual. Having lived on the east coast a few decades now, when I go out west, it certainly feels a lot more western. But in any event, I wonder what makes your mom so attracted to these films? Old people love westerns. Probably old white people in particular. All the old people in my family read nothing but Western books and watch tons of Western movies. I think it's almost like Game of Thrones or something for old people. I have no clue why Westerns were popular in Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lion Posted January 14, 2017 Author Share Posted January 14, 2017 5 minutes ago, Hux said: Old people love westerns. Probably old white people in particular. All the old people in my family read nothing but Western books and watch tons of Western movies. I think it's almost like Game of Thrones or something for old people. I have no clue why Westerns were popular in Europe. I can only attribute it to the "exotic" factor. Cowboys and the like really appeal to older people on continental Europe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshabi Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 On 1/13/2017 at 3:02 PM, Zerig said: If you don't like a movie you don't have to watch it. I assume he's not being held at gunpoint? Dude. Marriage. You pretty much are. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saxon Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Why don't you watch Johnny Depp dance around in makeup pretending to be Native American instead? :V https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Ranger_(2013_film) (Tbh I watched that film and found it pretty enjoyable, although there is one seen in which somebody jumbs a good 20 metres off of a moving train onto a pile of rocks and they just get up and dust themselves off as if that would be completely fine.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallium Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 Maybe she just likes the other aspects of it? There's a lot that goes into films aside from poorly chosen actors and incorrect history, maybe if youre going to watch a film with racist connotations its alright to watch it objectively keeping in mind what makes it racist and what people seemed to overlook in the time it was made? If anything the way a film or medium is creative is a historical piece in itself and what the ideas of a time period were which are no longer the same. I dont know the situation with the mom but maybe there were things about it that made her happy, and hopefully after being told knows some and understands the circumstances in why its considered wrong and offensive. She should at least get a personal computer and headphones if the issue is her watching it around your dad Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelwell Posted January 18, 2017 Share Posted January 18, 2017 On 1/13/2017 at 4:53 PM, Red Lion said: http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Film-BILDBAND-Winnetou-und-Shatterhand-im-Tal-der-Toten-KArl-MAY-WESTERN-60er-LP-/00/s/MTYwMFgxNjAw/z/KQ0AAOSwDk5T4hld/$_57.JPG UGH. There's something wrong with his face... It looks like Arnold Schwartznegger is hidden in there, somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lion Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 22 hours ago, Saxon said: Why don't you watch Johnny Depp dance around in makeup pretending to be Native American instead? :V https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Ranger_(2013_film) (Tbh I watched that film and found it pretty enjoyable, although there is one seen in which somebody jumbs a good 20 metres off of a moving train onto a pile of rocks and they just get up and dust themselves off as if that would be completely fine.) Dad flat out refuses to see that movie. Even if Depp's casting was well intentioned it's really hard for my dad to watch white actors profit off of playing Native American characters while most of his own relatives can't survive without some kind of government aid. They either live on the reservation and work there, in gift shops and entertaining tourists, or they're trying to scrape out a living in trailer parks. He himself grew up in poverty and got out by joining the military so seeing that, to him, is just adding salt to the wound. It's kinda shitty but his family, his parents and grandparents have history of trying to marry white because they think it's a way to improve their situations and improve things for their children. It might even be true to a point, compared to my dad (tan skin, black hair) I look very white (fair skin, red hair) and because I was raised in Europe I feel very distanced from his heritage and tend to just think of myself as white European. I'm also the first in his family to ever go to college and he was the first to graduate high school. Seeing how much my mom literally just refuses to understand his position infuriates me. He's right there in front of her, she's seen the reality of his family's existence so why can she not just avoid watching racist shit while he's around? It's a little thing to ask from her and she keeps putting her fingers in her ears and pretending she can't hear him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lion Posted January 19, 2017 Author Share Posted January 19, 2017 21 hours ago, Rhíulchabán said: I am very torn because I really respect native american culture and like actually learning about it and the struggles and successes of the people, but at the same time I really love classic westerns and spaghetti westerns... *sigh* At least she isn't watching this I guess: Dad and I can take a movie that has maybe 1 questionable scene or 1 instance of red-face. Like the disney Peter Pan, it's really cringy, but it's over quick so it's not that hard to just let it go. With Winnetou it's basically the entire movie and not just a cringey throw-away scene. We take spaghetti westerns as being silly and stupid and everyone knows they're silly and stupid. But Winnetou isn't that, it's not meant to be silly or stupid, it's meant to be taken seriously by the audience, the character is meant to be taken seriously and it's not just a few minutes of silly ignorant stupidity. This is from the novels. Quote "Winnetou is noble because he combines the highest aspects of otherwise 'decadent' Indian cultures with the natural adoption of the romantic and Christian traits of Karl May's own vision of German civilization. As he is dying, the Apache Winnetou asks some settlers to sing an Ave Maria for him, and his death is sanctified by his quiet conversion to Christianity." That is really really fucking atrocious. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasma Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 On 1/18/2017 at 2:56 PM, Saxon said: Why don't you watch Johnny Depp dance around in makeup pretending to be Native American instead? :V https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lone_Ranger_(2013_film) (Tbh I watched that film and found it pretty enjoyable, although there is one seen in which somebody jumbs a good 20 metres off of a moving train onto a pile of rocks and they just get up and dust themselves off as if that would be completely fine.) I know the comanche nation of my hometown actually made him an honorary comanche, probably for publicity but hey still better than nothing @Red Lion People don't realize how bad poverty is on reservations and how much discrimination native american people often face. I mean, they sure don't have it easy between trying to preserve the little that remains of their culture (for most nations) while battling stereotypes and poverty. I think the cherokee nation here is losing alot of it's language to spanish simply because people marry into families and well.... they aren't really pushy about their culture as white people are. (Also your mom is totally a dick, it's like marrying a black guy and watching movies from the 50s of white actors in black face eating watermelons and getting shot. Like dafuq) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Lion Posted January 20, 2017 Author Share Posted January 20, 2017 20 minutes ago, Johanna Waya said: I know the comanche nation of my hometown actually made him an honorary comanche, probably for publicity but hey still better than nothing @Red Lion People don't realize how bad poverty is on reservations and how much discrimination native american people often face. I mean, they sure don't have it easy between trying to preserve the little that remains of their culture (for most nations) while battling stereotypes and poverty. I think the cherokee nation here is losing alot of it's language to spanish simply because people marry into families and well.... they aren't really pushy about their culture as white people are. (Also your mom is totally a dick, it's like marrying a black guy and watching movies from the 50s of white actors in black face eating watermelons and getting shot. Like dafuq) I don't know anyone who actually speaks more than a little of the Cherokee language. My dad knows some words and phrases but honestly not a whole lot of it has been preserved and less and less gets passed down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasma Posted January 20, 2017 Share Posted January 20, 2017 14 minutes ago, Red Lion said: I don't know anyone who actually speaks more than a little of the Cherokee language. My dad knows some words and phrases but honestly not a whole lot of it has been preserved and less and less gets passed down. They're trying these days, the city libraries here in tulsa have free language learning stuff on their computers that includes cherokee. Hell in tahlequah I think the signs are cherokee first, english second. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZorroValdez Posted January 21, 2017 Share Posted January 21, 2017 Sounds like dicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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