Playtonic gives JonTron the boot from Yooka-Laylee

[QT Melon]

5 minutes ago, Saxon said:

Does anybody actually disagree with Kazooie's point, that celebrities who repeat white supremacist rhetoric on platforms like twitter contribute to a greater risk of real harmful behaviour in their followers, such as the recent spat of terror attacks and hoax bomb threats against people perceived to be refugees, Muslims, Jews and immigrants?

 

So you say it's only White supremacist statements that are the only problem?

I kinda figured the problem are people who will just flock to idiotic ideals regardless and commit violent acts, because they are stupid starstruck sheeple.

[Saxon]

5 minutes ago, kazooie said:

ugh, jontron was hating on black people, not muslims. if we're gonna meme, lets at least keep the facts straight lol

I watched the Destiny stream and, regrettably, it was both. His criticism of Islam wasn't motivated by any concern for flaws in the doctrine of the Qur'an, or for human rights records in Islamist countries; Jontron was worried that white people were going to be out-bred by immigrants and refugees, and that the eclipse of whites as the ethnic majority would plunge America into dystopia for unexplained reasons.

 

3 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

So you say it's only White supremacist statements that are the only problem?

I kinda figured the problem are people who will just flock to idiotic ideals regardless and commit violent acts, because they are stupid starstruck sheeple.

Of course I don't think white supremacy is the only problem the world faces.

If a celebrity began retweeting Islamic state propaganda I would also think that was unacceptable.

If we want to deconstruct hate groups, like Islamists and white supremacists, we also probably need to realise that not all of their members are idiots. Most of them start off as normal promising people, and they are slowly drawn into an ideology that they would never accept if it was presented to them honestly from the beginning.

 

[kazooie]

7 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

So you say it's only White supremacist statements that are the only problem?

I kinda figured the problem are people who will just flock to idiotic ideals regardless and commit violent acts, because they are stupid starstruck sheeple.

If we assume that a certain portion of the population are "idiotic sheeple who will flock to stupid ideals", then the question then becomes "how do we stop them from latching onto actually harmful ideals", right? I mean, it's better for such a person to believe that "the frogs are being turned gay by water chemicals", than murdering a random black guy on the streets because "they are inherently inferior", right? If we all agree that white supremacy is dumb, then there's no reason to give them platforms to spread their harmful ideas to such people.

 

5 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I watched the Destiny stream and, regrettably, it was both. His criticism of Islam wasn't motivated by any concern for flaws in the doctrine of the Qur'an, or for human rights records in Islamist countries; Jontron was worried that white people were going to be out-bred by immigrants and refugees, and that the eclipse of whites as the ethnic majority would plunge America into dystopia for unexplained reasons.

Huh. I remember him advocating for the white ethnostate a whole lot, but even the graphs that he provided didn't have Muslims even coming up close to overtaking any other race. It was the hispanic/latino population that grew the most, if I remember correctly.

[Zaraphayx]

Ah back to the good old "meaningful conversation" where we interpret our ideological opposition's positions in the worst possible light and then jerk ourselves off about how we've got it all figured out.

You nerds are so primitive and undeveloped, it's no wonder you're poor and incapable of influencing the world beyond your keyboards. lmao

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, kazooie said:

If we assume that a certain portion of the population are "idiotic sheeple who will flock to stupid ideals", then the question then becomes "how do we stop them from latching onto actually harmful ideals", right? I mean, it's better for such a person to believe that "the frogs are being turned gay by water chemicals", than murdering a random black guy on the streets because "they are inherently inferior", right? If we all agree that white supremacy is dumb, then there's no reason to give them platforms to spread their harmful ideas to such people.

 

Huh. I remember him advocating for the white ethnostate a whole lot, but even the graphs that he provided didn't have Muslims even coming up close to overtaking any other race. It was the hispanic/latino population that grew the most, if I remember correctly.

I'll have to review the content to check. It's certainly a popular view amongst ethnonationalists that the refugee crisis in the middle east represents an exodus that will ultimately result in the displacement and replacement of people in white nations, and they often point to European countries like England, France, the Netherlands, Germany and Sweden to prove their point. Some of them even claim the existence of Muslim-only cities in England, such as Birmingham, which they call 'No-Go-Zones'. (Birmingam is the city that DrDingo, Kalmor and I attended a furmeet in).

[QT Melon]

3 minutes ago, Zaraphayx said:

Ah back to the good old "meaningful conversation" where we interpret our ideological opposition's positions in the worst possible light and then jerk ourselves off about how we've got it all figured out.

You nerds are so primitive and undeveloped, it's no wonder you're poor and incapable of influencing the world beyond your keyboards. lmao

That's kinda the problem isn't it? I  don't think people are going to change their views if they are put in such a polarizing position.  

I mean why would I want to have "meaningful conversation" if the opposing side is doing the same?

 

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, QT Melon said:

That's kinda the problem isn't it? I  don't think people are going to change their views if they are put in such a polarizing position.  

I mean why would I want to have "meaningful conversation" if the opposing side is doing the same?

 

I think we have established at least some common ground actually. It looks like we both agree that repeating white supremacist talking points isn't responsible, and that it could drive people into these ideologies. You correctly observed that this is also how other predatory ideologies work too, and suggested that the people who fall for this kind of trap are idiots.

I certainly agree a lot of idiots do fall for these traps, although I think it's important to realise a lot of smart people fall for them too, and that smart recruits are actually the most dangerous, because they can organise terror, spread the ideology and avoid police detection with greater skill.

 

[Zaraphayx]

7 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

That's kinda the problem isn't it? I  don't think people are going to change their views if they are put in such a polarizing position.  

I mean why would I want to have "meaningful conversation" if the opposing side is doing the same?

 

People don't change their views because the admittance of fools into public discourse via global public communication has normalized the trend of building a counterargument around the weakest interpretation of your interlocutor's position. This fosters an environment of understandable animosity because in every exchange you are explicitly being told you represent beliefs that you do not hold.

It's a rhetorical tactic that serves little other than feeding the narcissistic supply of the mentally undeveloped who lack the mental discipline to willing subject their own positions to rigor and require their delusions validated through repeated "victories" against those who aren't wise to their methods.

[QT Melon]

You don't have to be that smart though. I mean one guy throws a rock in an angry crowd, people follow suit. We are somewhat wired this way.

[Dr. Doggo]

i bet the game is gonna be shit

[Vae]

I've heard the game already has a load of technical issues,
regardless of everything surrounding Youtube personas or morality argument bullshit.

[Dr. Doggo]

1 minute ago, Vae said:

I've heard the game already has a load of technical issues,
regardless of everything surrounding Youtube personas or morality argument bullshit.

That's kind of embarassing. Hasn't it been a kickstarter project for a good few years, and releasing next week or something? Hoo baby

[QT Melon]

Mighty No.9 all over again.

Need more Kung Fury funders....

[kazooie]

18 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

That's kinda the problem isn't it? I  don't think people are going to change their views if they are put in such a polarizing position.  

I mean why would I want to have "meaningful conversation" if the opposing side is doing the same?

We're, uh, still talking about white supremacy and white nationalism, right?

 

You do realize that the "opposing side" of white nationalism and supremacist ideology encompasses, uh, pretty much every modern political movement, right?

[Saxon]

7 minutes ago, kazooie said:

We're, uh, still talking about white supremacy and white nationalism, right?

 

You do realize that the "opposing side" of white nationalism and supremacist ideology encompasses, uh, the majority of every modern political movement, right?

I think (and let QT correct me if I am wrong) that QT thinks that the views expressed by JohnTron, and those who defend him, are not actually that controversial, but that the people arguing against them have misrepresented JohnTron's statements as the most extreme and worst possible interpretation that could be achieved.

IE 'If you don't agree with me then you're a white supremacist'

Did you watch the stream in which John explained his views, @QT Melon ?

[QT Melon]

Here we go round the mulberry bush...

[Vae]

1 minute ago, Sir Gibby said:

That's kind of embarassing. Hasn't it been a kickstarter project for a good few years, and releasing next week or something? Hoo baby

Much like many of them that ended up amongst the ranks of "nostalgia-bait that couldn't live up"

At least Blaster Master was good, albeit short af.

3 minutes ago, kazooie said:

We're, uh, still talking about white supremacy and white nationalism, right?

Actually, we're not.
We're talking about a Youtube persona being removed from a game, and people getting pissy about that.

Just because this thread has been hijacked into a political argument does not make it the central topic.

Speaking of which, if you want to discuss white nationalism and things of this nature, it's better suited to a different thread. We're talking about Jontron and Yooka-Laylee.

 

[Dr. Doggo]

Just now, Vae said:

Much like many of them that ended up amongst the ranks of "nostalgia-bait that couldn't live up"

At least Blaster Master was good, albeit short af.

Never tried Blaster Master.

Darkest Dungeon is the only one I can remember that turned out consistently good, at least out of the things I play. Unlike perpetual WIP games like Star Citizen and Project Zomboid.

[Saxon]

1 minute ago, QT Melon said:

Here we go round the mulberry bush...

It's okay to say that you didn't watch the stream, honestly I think it would explain a lot of the disagreement here, if Kazooie and I are discussing an event that most other people haven't witnessed.

I'm interested in knowing whether you agree that intelligent people can also be deceived into following violent ideologies, because I think this would develop the discussion a bit more.
If we think that only idiots subscribe to violent ideologies, then I guess this can mean a lot of people end up thinking that, since idiots will be idiots, little can be done to prevent the spread of those ideologies. So I think there's some utility and merit in acknowledging that even smart people get involved in nasty groups, right?

[kazooie]

8 minutes ago, Vae said:

We're talking about a Youtube persona being removed from a game, and people getting pissy about that.

Just because this thread has been hijacked into a political argument does not make it the central topic.

Speaking of which, if you want to discuss white nationalism and things of this nature, it's better suited to a different thread. We're talking about Jontron and Yooka-Laylee.

ok, ok, work with me here:

Jontron was removed from yooka-laylee

For espousing white nationalist rhetoric.

 

Apparently you have not read this thread, so I'll reiterate: shortly before being removed from the game, Jontron had a debate with Destiny where he stated things like:

*america was built by white people

*colonization was good for the colonized

*rich blacks commit more crimes than poor whites

*advocated for the racially pure ethnostate, using Japan as an example

[QT Melon]

You guys reminded me that http://store.steampowered.com/app/215550/was a thing.

 

This is probably one of the earliest Kickstarter games I remember backing and it apparently came out last year...I didn't even realize and it got okay reviews.

[Dr. Doggo]

4 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

You guys reminded me that http://store.steampowered.com/app/215550/was a thing.

 

This is probably one of the earliest Kickstarter games I remember backing and it apparently came out last year...I didn't even realize and it got okay reviews.

This is why early access strikes me as sucky. And I mean for the developers, not the consumers.

Imagine aggressively advertising and selling something to people, only to drip-feed it into becoming a completed project. And when it's finished, it's a solid game, but people have moved on and aren't interested anymore. They bought it already, moved on, and even those who really like the game don't play it often because the small incremental updates don't get them hyped-up enough while there's new games coming out. And those loyal fans aren't paying any extra, they've already paid months or years ago. And they're gonna be mad if you introduce your next update as paid DLC, opposed to the initial agreement.

[QT Melon]

8 minutes ago, Sir Gibby said:

This is why early access strikes me as sucky. And I mean for the developers, not the consumers.

Imagine aggressively advertising and selling something to people, only to drip-feed it into becoming a completed project. And when it's finished, it's a solid game, but people have moved on and aren't interested anymore. They bought it already, moved on, and even those who really like the game don't play it often because the small incremental updates don't get them hyped-up enough while there's new games coming out.

It didn't help it was just sitting around for years. I honestly thought it was abandoned. I funded it because I get moist around Massive Black and bought their art books, but this was an unfortunate turn.

 

I should also mention that if Massive Black had gone into a social Media War like Playtronic did people would have probably been upset with them too. Ironically something to that nature did actually happen on CA.org but MB had the smarts, and legal pressure to stay somewhat silent about it.

 

The backlash really occurred with the bans. 

[Vae]

11 minutes ago, kazooie said:

ok, ok, work with me here:

Jontron was removed from yooka-laylee

For espousing white nationalist rhetoric.

 

Apparently you have not read this thread, so I'll reiterate: shortly before being removed from the game, Jontron had a debate with Destiny where he stated things like:

*america was built by white people

*colonization was good for the colonized

*rich blacks commit more crimes than poor whites

*he advocated for the racially pure ethnostate, using Japan as an example

Oh I'm fully aware of the issues surrounding Jontron himself, much as I don't particularly care about them.
Don't paint me as an illiterate just because I disagreed with you.

What I'm saying is that this probably warrants its own goddamn thread, considering that we're in Three Frags, talking about a dude who caused a lot of drama and got kicked out of a videogame.

 

[Saxon]

5 minutes ago, Sir Gibby said:

This is why early access strikes me as sucky. And I mean for the developers, not the consumers.

Imagine aggressively advertising and selling something to people, only to drip-feed it into becoming a completed project. And when it's finished, it's a solid game, but people have moved on and aren't interested anymore. They bought it already, moved on, and even those who really like the game don't play it often because the small incremental updates don't get them hyped-up enough while there's new games coming out. And those loyal fans aren't paying any extra, they've already paid months or years ago. And they're gonna be mad if you introduce your next update as paid DLC, opposed to the initial agreement.

I think some companies use the drip-feeding early access as a means to employ people who actually funded them as free bug testers, which is a little bit...eh...not great.

(I'm aware this is kinda going on a tangent though)

[QT Melon]

2 minutes ago, Vae said:

Don't paint me as an illiterate just because I disagreed with you.

What I'm saying is that this probably warrants its own goddamn thread, considering that we're in Three Frags, talking about a dude who caused a lot of drama and got kicked out of a videogame.

I was gonna say something about the backhanded insult as well. 

Just because someone doesn't want to get mired in a political debate doesn't equate to being ignorant nor illiterate.

[Tsuujou]

39 minutes ago, Sir Gibby said:

i bet the game is gonna be shit

It's got frame rate and camera issues. The game actually literally brings back all of the problems 90's 3D platformers had that were ironed out through the last 20 years. Fussy camera, odd movement quirks, poor placement of platforms making narrow sections particularly painful. On top of just not running properly. I saw someone pick up a Pagie and the game dropped to 0FPS for about 4 seconds.

It's not the worst shit I've seen. But, one would hope the game gets patched very very soon. I really hope BloodStained doesn't end up a mess like this and Mighty Number 9.

[Dr. Doggo]

6 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I think some companies use the drip-feeding early access as a means to employ people who actually funded them as free bug testers, which is a little bit...eh...not great.

(I'm aware this is kinda going on a tangent though)

It's not as if they subject them to the same standards as paid testers, though. The most they do is let them voluntarily post on their websites, or retrieve data from game servers to use as information to base their next moves on.

2 minutes ago, Tsuujou said:

It's got frame rate and camera issues. The game actually literally brings back all of the problems 90's 3D platformers had that were ironed out through the last 20 years. Fussy camera, odd movement quirks, poor placement of platforms making narrow sections particularly painful. On top of just not running properly. I saw someone pick up a Pagie and the game dropped to 0FPS for about 4 seconds.

It's not the worst shit I've seen. But, one would hope the game gets patched very very soon. I really hope BloodStained doesn't end up a mess like this and Mighty Number 9.

I have to wonder what kind of presentation they're looking to get out of a cutesy cartoon platformer to have performance problems. 90s platformers are fun as hell and look pretty decent in spite of their archaic tech, I can't imagine people will be all that picky. But I guess I'm speaking for myself!

[kazooie]

52 minutes ago, Vae said:

Oh I'm fully aware of the issues surrounding Jontron himself, much as I don't particularly care about them.
Don't paint me as an illiterate just because I disagreed with you.

What I'm saying is that this probably warrants its own goddamn thread, considering that we're in Three Frags, talking about a dude who caused a lot of drama and got kicked out of a videogame.

Yes, and part of the discussion is, presumably, the content of the drama, right? A thread about jontron getting booted presumably encompasses why he was booted, and whether it was justified. 

The discussion about why jontron got booted from playtonic does warrant its own thread. I agree. This is that thread, lmao

 

Also, the fact that this is your point of contention, rather than all of the actually off-topic meme spam in the previous page is pretty hilarious.

 

e: I mean, a thread about someone getting booted for making political statements is obviously going to be political. 

Edited April 5, 2017 by kazooie

[Zaraphayx]

What's there to discuss? He got booted because a bunch of vindictive, useless cretin sensed an opportunity to humble a public figure and capitalized on his careless statements.

He seems to have learned his lesson, he's a video games funny-man, not a provocateur. His value lies in his ability to make nerds laugh, not match wits with intellectually dishonest cowards like Destiny. Hopefully he remembers his place.

[Zaraphayx]

Oh wait I forgot your only connection to the community anymore is to pop your head in and look for Nazis to punch online because if you tried it in real life you'd get rekt lmao.

[Tsuujou]

6 minutes ago, Zaraphayx said:

What's there to discuss? He got booted because a bunch of vindictive, useless cretin sensed an opportunity to humble a public figure and capitalized on his careless statements.

He seems to have learned his lesson, he's a video games funny-man, not a provocateur. His value lies in his ability to make nerds laugh, not match wits with intellectually dishonest cowards like Destiny. Hopefully he remembers his place.

Yeah, Jonny Boy's pretty much resolved the situation as best as he could which was dropping whatever the Hell it was he was doing and "apologizing" (pointless/unnecessary).
At this point, this situation is really only good for ridicule, shit posting, and jokes. All outlets of serious debate have kind of been exhausted at this point assuming any of it was warranted from jump.

[QT Melon]

There was a very tiny minority if even that...that were arguing over JonTron ' s removal from the game in this thread.

There were as few that questioned whether or not consumers should get a refund.

Most of the contention in this thread was Playtronic 's handling of its consumers by banning them and proceeding to publicly mock others on social media.

JonTron's statements are really a side debate that is more suitable in its own thread.

This thread really is more about the fallout, quality of the game, and how NOT to treat your consumers who simply asked for refunds, you can deny them, but it was the other behavior that was rather questionable. Especially if you have many hyped to play the game. They will see the social media pissing war as time wasted that they could have put on making the game good.

Of course this is being stated repeatedly but I guess it doesn't matter because people still feel like engaging in a pissing war by extrapolating quotes and statements that people are simply making as as side commentary.

People  have stated they aren't interested in having a political debate in the games forum, but some people can't take the hint and really don't see how ironic they are being considering the event that spawned the topic.

In short, you guys understand "no means no" correct? Because it is starting to get on the creeper scale of vibes.

[Vae]

51 minutes ago, kazooie said:

Yes, and part of the discussion is, presumably, the content of the drama, right? A thread about jontron getting booted presumably encompasses why he was booted, and whether it was justified. 

The discussion about why jontron got booted from playtonic does warrant its own thread. I agree. This is that thread, lmao

 

Also, the fact that this is your point of contention, rather than all of the actually off-topic meme spam in the previous page is pretty hilarious.

 

e: I mean, a thread about someone getting booted for making political statements is obviously going to be political. 

This isn't discussing whether or not Jontron's boot was justified. It's discussing racial politics.

What does this have to do with Jontron being booted from a game:



Ironically, the jokes and meme spam were more on-topic because they actually parodied the events surrounding the thread topic, and were actually relevant.
Funny that.

If there is a larger issue of racial politics to be discussed, it warrants its own thread.
This one is about Jontron being kicked out of Yooka-Laylee.
I'm not explaining this point again.

[kazooie]

2 hours ago, Vae said:

What does this have to do with Jontron being booted from a game:

Because "rich black people commit as many crimes as poor whites" is what jontron said, ad verbatim.

He made that statement. And then got booted. That's how they're related. This conversation appears extremely circular though, so it'll be taken elsewhere.

[willow]

I think we're pretty much done here