Chaos in Cologne on New Year's Eve, refugee-crisis is escalating

[Cingal]

5 hours ago, Snagged Cub said:

I bet other believers of other religions would commit atrocities too if they came from as poor countries as Muslim countries

 

I'm sure.

[Zeke]

28 minutes ago, Cingal said:

 

I'm sure.

It can be argued that most of the things listed are extremists doing it to their own people. 

 

[Clove Darkwave]

And then you realize that this sort of thing will terrorize Americans into voting for Trump.

 

[Naesaki]

7 minutes ago, Clove Darkwave said:

And then you realize that this sort of thing will terrorize Americans into voting for Trump.

 

Then say hello to Muslims all across the US being persecuted even more severely because they are all apparently evil and there can't be anything but evil Muslims, even though majority of Muslims condemn IS but nope they don't exist or matter to the paranoid and terrified public.

Because what this world really needs is more genocides and purges...

[Clove Darkwave]

1 minute ago, Naesaki said:

Then say hello to Muslims all across the US being persecuted even more severely because they are all apparently evil and there can't be anything but evil Muslims, even though majority of Muslims condemn IS but nope they don't exist or matter to the paranoid and terrified public.

Because what this world really needs is more genocides and purges...

I say we all need to go for the Science Victory and let the barbarians fight over the dirt.

[Naesaki]

Just now, Clove Darkwave said:

I say we all need to go for the Science Victory and let the barbarians fight over the dirt.

I wish I wasn't out of likes, because Civilization references, the door to my geeky geeky heart

[Clove Darkwave]

15 minutes ago, Naesaki said:

I wish I wasn't out of likes, because Civilization references, the door to my geeky geeky heart

A quote is fine too.

[Gamedog]

9 hours ago, Hakar-Kerarmor said:

Whoa whoa whoa there sparky.

You were wanting to ship them out before they had committed any of these crimes. Stick to one story will you?

Yes and I stand by that

Answer my question: If we use your "due process", where the fuck do you want them to be housed, whent he jails are already full from them?

[Hakar-Kerarmor]

59 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

Yes and I stand by that

Answer my question: If we use your "due process", where the fuck do you want them to be housed, whent he jails are already full from them?

My due process?

As to where to put them, I'm sure there's things in Germany that needs cleaning. You know, mass labour and stuff like that. Make them useful instead of letting them sit in a cell all day.

 

Now answer my question: If you do not care for due process, are you fine with being jailed or deported for being a potential rapist?

[Toboe]

7 minutes ago, Hakar-Kerarmor said:

My due process?

As to where to put them, I'm sure there's things in Germany that needs cleaning. You know, mass labour and stuff like that. Make them useful instead of letting them sit in a cell all day.

 

Now answer my question: If you do not care for due process, are you fine with being jailed or deported for being a potential rapist?

But he is a native potential rapist, that is something completely different! :V

[Gamedog]

11 minutes ago, Hakar-Kerarmor said:

My due process?

As to where to put them, I'm sure there's things in Germany that needs cleaning. You know, mass labour and stuff like that. Make them useful instead of letting them sit in a cell all day.

 

Now answer my question: If you do not care for due process, are you fine with being jailed or deported for being a potential rapist?

You're taking my words too literally. Let me explain it as easy and as clearly as fucking possible
You suggested "due process" for "refugees" committing crime.
I've explained that the "due process" that you support for these "refugees" isn't necessary.
You insisted that "due process" for "refugees" is necessary.
I've stated that the "refugees" are committing crimes in such massive numbers, with such frequency, that they've already filled up the jail cells in Cologne.
Despite knowing this, you insist that "due process" is still necessary.
Thus, I ask you, (assuming you know how long "due process" takes), where do you suggest that the police of Cologne house all of these "refugees" while going through the "due process" that you claim is so necessary.

"Make them useful"
These people don't want to work, they've made that very clear. They feel entitled to everything and want nothing more than to collect cheques -- this is all based off of statements said by said "refugees" in interviews throughout Sweden and Germany.

If I was in a group that was performing massive, organized terrorist attacks and gang-raping people throughout a city I moved into, I wouldn't be surprised when I was deported pre-emptively. Yes, I'd say that if I was part of a group known for these attacks, then you would be in the right to pre-emptively deport me and the rest of my group.

[Machine]

>Import millions of men from a legitimate rape culture and allow them to be around women that they have never seen without burqas

>Attacks in Germany are more widespread than we thought

>Government takes days to report attacks due to fear of appearing racist

>Government tries to cover up attacks and tells victims that they shouldn't have dressed "provocatively"

>"Standing within an arm's length of a man will protect you from rape!"

>"Covering your arms and legs will prevent rape!"

>SJWs call everyone shocked by this Islamophobes and racists (Muslims are not a race lol)

>Not a single word from feminists

 

GERMANY YES

Edited January 10, 2016 by Machine

[Rassah]

Hey, hey, guys, hey guys! If we do elect Trump, start persecuting Muslims, and round them all up into camps...

At least we can rest easy knowing that it's not the first time we rounded up a specific race of people and put them into camp  And the last president who did that is one of our most favorite presidents, too!

[Machine]

3 minutes ago, Rassah said:

Hey, hey, guys, hey guys! If we do elect Trump, start persecuting Muslims, and round them all up into camps...

At least we can rest easy knowing that it's not the first time we rounded up a specific race of people and put them into camp  And the last president who did that is one of our most favorite presidents, too!

Godwin's law.

The sane option would be to deport them back to their original countries for inciting violence upon their new home.

[Rassah]

It's not Goodwin's law. Learn your USA history.

[Hakar-Kerarmor]

1 hour ago, Gamedog said:

"Make them useful"
These people don't want to work, they've made that very clear. They feel entitled to everything and want nothing more than to collect cheques -- this is all based off of statements said by said "refugees" in interviews throughout Sweden and Germany.

Sorry, I don't recall suggesting that we ask them politely.

 

1 hour ago, Gamedog said:

You're taking my words too literally. Let me explain it as easy and as clearly as fucking possible
You suggested "due process" for "refugees" committing crime.
I've explained that the "due process" that you support for these "refugees" isn't necessary.
You insisted that "due process" for "refugees" is necessary.
I've stated that the "refugees" are committing crimes in such massive numbers, with such frequency, that they've already filled up the jail cells in Cologne.
Despite knowing this, you insist that "due process" is still necessary.
Thus, I ask you, (assuming you know how long "due process" takes), where do you suggest that the police of Cologne house all of these "refugees" while going through the "due process" that you claim is so necessary.

If I was in a group that was performing massive, organized terrorist attacks and gang-raping people throughout a city I moved into, I wouldn't be surprised when I was deported pre-emptively. Yes, I'd say that if I was part of a group known for these attacks, then you would be in the right to pre-emptively deport me and the rest of my group.

So you would support a curfew for men, since after all, it was men who are doing all this raping and stuff.

 

1 hour ago, Toboe said:

But he is a native potential rapist, that is something completely different! :V

Now remember, when prisons are full of immigrants, that means they are all terrible people who need to be deported. But when they are full of men, that means society is biased against men and we need MRA to save us.

[Gamedog]

39 minutes ago, Hakar-Kerarmor said:

Sorry, I don't recall suggesting that we ask them politely.

 

So you would support a curfew for men, since after all, it was men who are doing all this raping and stuff.

 

Now remember, when prisons are full of immigrants, that means they are all terrible people who need to be deported. But when they are full of men, that means society is biased against men and we need MRA to save us.

Are you implying that groups of men who set out to rape people in an organized fashion will respect a curfew?

Do you also think banning drugs and guns will stop their use? lol

[Rassah]

In case you're too lazy, FDR, the favorite president who set up our social programs, rounded up and stuck Japanese Americans into concentration camps. So America is familiar with that tactic already too.

[Hakar-Kerarmor]

2 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Do you also think banning drugs and guns will stop their use? lol

Please, put some more words in my mouth.

[Gamedog]

4 minutes ago, Hakar-Kerarmor said:

Please, put some more words in my mouth.

And he avoids the rest of my post.

 

Typical. I know that you and I share the same sentiments on this issue.

[WileyWarWeasel]

By the looks of things the best solution is to arm and train native militias in every country that accepts refugees just in case.

Let me know when we do this so I can buy shares in arms manufacturers C:

[Saxon]

@Gamedog Obviously judicial integrity would be compromised by suspending due process or deporting people who haven't been convicted of crimes, because you think they are associated with people who have. 

A more practical solution would be to reduce intake

 

@Hakar-Kerarmor Gamedog would have a point if he didn't view prisons full of economic migrants as discriminatory, but did view a disproportionate proportion of native men in prison as discriminatory. That's because it's already been well demonstrated that, for the same crimes, men receive harsher sentences. 

By contrast a lot of muslim migrants are receiving lighter sentences with reduced responsibility, because some of them have actually managed to make 'it's my culture' stick as a justification for reduced responsibility when they are convicted of sexual assault. 

[Gamedog]

"Because they're associated with the n'er do wells" he says, a mere paragraph before saying that Muslim immigrants are getting off by using "it's my culture" as an excuse.

 

someone whose culture involves raping women and children, robbing strangers in mobs, and beating people up in the streets does not belong in the western world

[Hakar-Kerarmor]

4 hours ago, Gamedog said:

Typical. I know that you and I share the same sentiments on this issue.

You are right off course, our focus should be on how we get the immigrants to stop being shitty people, and how to get our fellow natives to help with this instead of wringing their hands and going 'oh but their culture!'.

And preferably without getting rid of one of the cornerstones of our civilisation.

4 hours ago, Gamedog said:

And he avoids the rest of my post.

Sorry, I tend to get *frumpled* when people put words in my mouth.

[Gamedog]

I truly believe you can't help a group of people who claim sexual and physical attacks to be their "culture" and not only have hundreds of years of history to back them up, but their holy fucking book as well.

we need to protect our own people, not immigrants from a violent third world country with equally violent religion 

 

wasn't aware asking a question was considered putting words in your mouth, but the more you know.

[Barnectomy]

I suggest we cover the entire country with blankets of bacon bits.

[Saxon]

2 hours ago, Gamedog said:

"Because they're associated with the n'er do wells" he says, a mere paragraph before saying that Muslim immigrants are getting off by using "it's my culture" as an excuse.

 

someone whose culture involves raping women and children, robbing strangers in mobs, and beating people up in the streets does not belong in the western world

Both statements are true. It's not fair to prosecute people preemptively for crimes you expect them to commit, and it's also not fair to let someone use a bogus excuse of race or religion as mitigating factors for criminal responsibility. 

 

Edited January 10, 2016 by Saxon

[Gamedog]

"Fairness" is the least of our concerns atm.

[Saxon]

Just now, Gamedog said:

"Fairness" is the least of our concerns atm.

Isn't it the most important? IE it is unfair that European women are being preyed upon by middle-eastern men, many of whom are Algerian or Morrocan, and hence not even deserved of refugee status. 

I also think it is unfair that people from Algeria or Iran think that they should come to Europe and use resources which are being set aside for the victims of Syria's war. 

[Gamedog]

What isn't fair is that women are being told to "stay an arms length away from strangers" and "stay near men to avoid being attacked" when the easier solution would be to send them all back and bar any more from coming in.

i also find it humorous how you're hinting that actual Syrian "refugees" aren't a problem either

[Saxon]

12 minutes ago, Gamedog said:

What isn't fair is that women are being told to "stay an arms length away from strangers" and "stay near men to avoid being attacked" when the easier solution would be to send them all back and bar any more from coming in.

i also find it humorous how you're hinting that actual Syrian "refugees" aren't a problem either

I don't think there were any women in Koeln who weren't trying to stay an arm's length away from those horrible men, anyway, so what a stupid suggestion from Koeln's mayor. 

I recognise that some Syrian refugees were also involved in molestation and thievery. I think that people who aren't refugees, and are exploiting this situation in order to get into Europe illegally and then molest women are even worse, especially because they're using up resources that are meant to be saving Syria's children from Assad and the Islamists.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Saxon

[Muugu]

I really try to be tolerant towards the refugees. I really do. And generally I have nothing against foreign people, in fact I love most. 

But with news like these flooding in and reports coming from here and there, slipping through the cracks of media's "everything is okay" veil. It really gets me into thinking that fuck them all, send them refugees back. You'd think you had the decency to behave when a foreign nation accepts your sorry ass but no, rape, murders, assaults and general misbehaving occur. Not just once or twice, but this is going on all over the place and Germany was the first to pop, and I doubt it will be the last. I don't want another holocaust per se, but a total fuck all refugees policy wouldn't hurt.  What's the point of "helping" people when some of them obviously don't give a fuck about you and are only abusing the system? 

There are always those who really need the help, but if by helping them you also get this, I would prefer if we just apologize and tell them politely to fuck off. You can help when you can help, but you should never go overcapacity with it.

 

E: And with Angela 'I take black cock' Merkel saying that it's basically your fault you got raped and her general attitude being "Bend over and open wide, Germany" I am just too full of this spoonfed shit that I must vent here. Sorry and /rant

Edited January 10, 2016 by Muugu

[Dr. Doggo]

What a fun article.

How many more times is this going to happen over the continent?

[Rassah]

1) Socialism

2) Immigration

Choose one. They probably wouldn't be pouring into your countries if they knew there's no one to take care of them afterwards but their own hard work.

[Saxon]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-35276264

I think this provides some context, to explain why lots of refugees don't feel safe in Turkey. 

[Rassah]

That there is a great retort to "Why do you need privacy if you have nothing to hide?" Need to start using crypto to publish and disseminate critical articles anonymously. Pretty hard to stop anonymous people ridiculing your backwoods ideas.

[Saxon]

3 minutes ago, Rassah said:

That there is a great retort to "Why do you need privacy if you have nothing to hide?" Need to start using crypto to publish and disseminate critical articles anonymously. Pretty hard to stop anonymous people ridiculing your backwoods ideas.

I doubt encrypted publishing would have helped him. Several of the men who leak reports from Raqqa have been murdered in Turkey because the Islamists torture their informants until they give away their identities and locations. The Islamist then either cross into Turkey, or instruct Turkish followers to conduct the murders. 

 

[Gamedog]

2 hours ago, Saxon said:

I don't think there were any women in Koeln who weren't trying to stay an arm's length away from those horrible men, anyway, so what a stupid suggestion from Koeln's mayor. 

I recognise that some Syrian refugees were also involved in molestation and thievery. I think that people who aren't refugees, and are exploiting this situation in order to get into Europe illegally and then molest women are even worse, especially because they're using up resources that are meant to be saving Syria's children from Assad and the Islamists.

You're trying the argument of "outliers" or "bad apples"
It's been shown that this religion's majority have extremist and violent views, supporting terrorist attacks and killings around the world.
You bring these people from a thir-dworld country where they're fighting over religion, and you put them in a first-world, liberal, tolerant country and you STILL believe they're "outliers"?
How many people will have to be raped for you to understand that you're wrong?

 

 

(I noticed many typos, I'm too lazy to fix them. Phoenix is fucked up for me. See this screenshot:)

http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/12/av/5q/yyi2n8.jpg

[Saxon]

Just now, Gamedog said:

You're trying the argument of "outliers" or "bad apples"
It's been shown that this religion's majority have extremist and violent views, supporting terrorist attacks and killings around the world.
You bring these people from a thir-dworld country where they're fighting over religion, and you put them in a first-world, liberal, tolerant country and you STILL believe they're "outliers"?
How many people will have to be raped for you to understand that you're wrong?

 

 

(I noticed many typos, I'm too lazy to fix them. Phoenix is fucked up for me. See this screenshot:)

http://screenshu.com/static/uploads/temporary/12/av/5q/yyi2n8.jpg

...I think you have my views confused with something else?

Whilst I don't think that a majority of Syrian refugees support extremism, or that all of the war in Syria is based on 'fighting over religion'; Assad's motivation to hold onto power is despotic, rather than religious.  

This doesn't mean that I think that these very significant problems should be ignored as 'outliers'. O_o 

 

 

[Gamedog]

1 minute ago, Saxon said:

...I think you have my views confused with something else?

Whilst I don't think that a majority of Syrian refugees support extremism, or that all of the war in Syria is based on 'fighting over religion'; Assad's motivation to hold onto power is despotic, rather than religious.  

This doesn't mean that I think that these very significant problems should be ignored as 'outliers'. O_o 

 

 

The majority of Muslims worldwide -- including those in Syria -- support extremist views.
They cannot integrate appropriately and fully into western society. There's nothing wrong with admitting that two cultures clash and just won't cooperate,and thus, it comes as no surprise to me when people are beheaded in Ikea or have their throat slits by the "refugees" in their own homes.

I believe you're pulling the "bad apples" argument because you keep specifying "some refugees". It sure is weird to me how the "bad apples" in a group of "refugees" managed to mass in such numbers with such devious goals in mind.
That's a shitload of bad apples.

[Saxon]

Just now, Gamedog said:

The majority of Muslims worldwide -- including those in Syria -- support extremist views.
They cannot integrate appropriately and fully into western society. There's nothing wrong with admitting that two cultures clash and just won't cooperate,and thus, it comes as no surprise to me when people are beheaded in Ikea or have their throat slits by the "refugees" in their own homes.

I believe you're pulling the "bad apples" argument because you keep specifying "some refugees". It sure is weird to me how the "bad apples" in a group of "refugees" managed to mass in such numbers with such devious goals in mind.
That's a shitload of bad apples.

I'm not sure that a majority do support terrorism? I know that concerning attitudes about women, apostates and homosexuals abound and that these attitudes will present big problems for refugees arriving in Europe. 

I think a lot of the people thronging in large masses in Koeln were migrants who had arrived from the Maghreb, rather than Syria and the Levant. Refugees were doubtlessly involved, I just think that a big part of this problem is people who aren't refugees, who exploited the refugee crisis in order to gain passage to Europe. 

[Machine]

[Fantasma]

I'm going to pop in at the end here, and give my thoughts on a few different things:

@Gamedog, you mistake the entirety of the followers of a religion with the local cultures that drive these people, and their flavor of that religion, with those people who are by all means wonderful gentle people. It's been said time and again, maybe someday you will realize it.

@Rassah, while I agree with you on a deal of things, I do not believe firearm ownership is something that prevents or lowers crime. I don't neccesarily believe it raises crime, but simply put the people usually involved do not neccesarily have the training needed to safely and effectively utilize a firearm in many if not most of the situations in which they would be deployed. My Ex-Military coworker and his wife? Probably. Small town cop? Probably not. Random person without any extensive training on deploying the firearm, being able to identify targets (so they don't accidentally shoot innocents), and just overall being situationally aware? Probably not.

OT

It would seem to me that Germany, in their good will put too much trust in these refugees. Pardon the comparison as I do not mean to imply anything, but it is like while giving food to a stray dog you trust them not to bite your hand, whereas you should hope they not bite your hand but understand they are an unknown and you should limit risks to yourself in the in-between.

The only possible solution I can think of is a pipeline of sorts by which refugees could be gradually integrated into their new country before being let into it as a free agent. I cannot think of a way of it to be done with relatively minimal manpower or being immune to human cruelty, but think about it as they, as they first leave the country, are assigned a caseworker and are assessed while their contact is limited to fellow refugees. Those who are revealed to be violent offenders and the like are shipped off to well, a prison community of sorts.

This is the only safe way I can think to deal with large amounts of unknown refugees from unstable areas, but to be actually deployed would take a cordoned off mini country and a great deal of care to not simply be another ghetto.

Tough situation.

[Rassah]

@Johanna Waya While I agree that just hhanding out pistols is a bad idea, I'm willing to bet there's a lot more motivation to learn how to use them now.

But this suggestion was given half in jest. I know that neither the German government would allow it, nor the people who effectively got conditioned to feel traumatized even at the sight of a gun would want to own one.

Edited January 10, 2016 by Rassah

[AyGee]

Had to skim a bit through this, myself, as 3 pages of arguing over religion and politics can only go in so many directions.  But I will say this...

I try not to be racist.  I try to understand that bombings and terror attacks are usually carried out by a disgruntled few who probably would have done something just as extreme whether or not they were part of a particular religion, due to them likely being fucked in the head as some unfortunate few are born with.  I remember that when there are 1.2 billion Muslims in the world, the nasty organizations among them comprise a fairly small percentage, and are really just claiming credit for the aforementioned crazy people's antics to make it seem like they have more power than they really do.

But this?  1000+ people of roughly the same nationality and religious background engaging in a molestation-riot that completely overcomes the local authority's ability to handle the situation?

That's no longer a few bad apples, or outliers.  At the very least, and as much as I genuinely hate to say this, it indicates something is fundamentally broken with their culture.  A entire mob of people deciding at once that the locals are theirs for the taking is just... well... I hate to sound like some 1800's missionary, but I think 'savages' would be a good term to describe them.

I've been for the other shoe to drop and find out that this was induced, or is a bogus story, or an exaggerated incident.

I'm still waiting...

[Gamedog]

Okay let's get a few things straight

1. Muslim is not a race
2. Islam is not a race
Disliking either of these things doesn't make you a racist.
3. This is not a "small minority" who hold these violent, aggressive views. In fact, it's the majority that hold these views:
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-chp1-3.png
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm
4. This religion has been the source of the most attacks, hostages, deaths, and victims out of any other religion:
http://56.media.tumblr.com/7f504542f829b8b42ef4da75156603c3/tumblr_o0puhtxd621qfj6l6o1_1280.jpg

It's time to stop hiding the truth because you're scared of (incorrectly) being called "racist". Wake up and smell the coffee.

[Saxon]

I agree that Islam is not a race. Mistreating someone because of their religion would be prejudicial treatment, rather than racism. 

I don't think that people are disagreeing with you because they fear being called racist. I disagree with you because you've been arguing to forgo due process, and assume guilt by association, which compromises the integrity of our judiciary. 

I agree with you about the pervasiveness of many endemic prejudicial attitudes and behaviours in Muslim countries, which many migrants bring with them when the settle in Europe, but I think that spurning our own judicial values is a poor solution to these problems. 

[WileyWarWeasel]

6 hours ago, Saxon said:

I agree that Islam is not a race. Mistreating someone because of their religion would be prejudicial treatment, rather than racism. 

I don't think that people are disagreeing with you because they fear being called racist. I disagree with you because you've been arguing to forgo due process, and assume guilt by association, which compromises the integrity of our judiciary. 

I agree with you about the pervasiveness of many endemic prejudicial attitudes and behaviours in Muslim countries, which many migrants bring with them when the settle in Europe, but I think that spurning our own judicial values is a poor solution to these problems. 

Due process sounds pretty expensive, especially when you have millions trying to enter Europe. Just as well that EU has limitless cash to spend :V

[Käpt'n]

Alright, now people have been banding together in Cologne to actively hunt foreigners. Multiple people have been injured and apparently the whole thing was organized through social networks.
According to multiple reports the attackers were mostly rockers, hooligans and bouncers by the looks of it.

Shit is kind of hitting the fan now and I hate that...

[Dr. Doggo]

40 minutes ago, Käpt'n said:

Alright, now people have been banding together in Cologne to actively hunt foreigners. Multiple people have been injured and apparently the whole thing was organized through social networks.
According to multiple reports the attackers were mostly rockers, hooligans and bouncers by the looks of it.

Shit is kind of hitting the fan now and I hate that...