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#00Buck
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I buried someone this week in the literal sense. 

It was a Jewish funeral and in their tradition you quite literally bury the dead with shovels. At most other funerals the casket is lowered into the ground and then everyone walks away and a crew of workers use a machine to fill in the grave. Part of the tradition is that you scoop your first bit of dirt with your shovel upside down to show your reluctance to say goodbye. Then you use your shovel normally to fill in the rest. All the mourners are invited to take turns. 

I've attended Jewish burials before. Participating in the burial is considered one of the greatest good deeds that you can do as it is an act of kindness that nobody can ever repay you for. I'm used to being the only non-orthodox person filling in the grave. The more you participate the greater the weight of your good deed. I let each person take their turn. When everyone was done I stepped up. At a certain point the ceremony was concluded but the burial was incomplete.

I joined the orthodox as I have in the past to complete the burial. Every last scoop of dirt was placed back where it came from. The person who died lived as close to a perfect life as possible. They did no harm to anyone ever, they used as little of the world's resources as possible to sustain themselves, they raised a family in the most loving and steadfast way possible, and they chose to die on their own terms when the decided it was time to go. To bury them was an honour. 

The final scoops are easiest. The hardest one is the first one. To show humility the dead are buried in the most plain pine boxes you can find. They look like something out of an old cowboy movie. The lids are thin and you can hear the hollow sound of the dirt hitting the lid. It is loud and resonant. That's usually when people start to cry. It intensifies when enough dirt has been scooped in to completely cover the coffin. That's when people realize that the dead are well and truly gone and never to be seen again. 

I was one of the only people who showed up without sunglasses. I was also one of the only people who didn't spend all their time staring at the ground. I was also one of the only people who didn't cry. Not because I'm hard hearted. I've been fortunate enough to know in advance that this person was dying. I did my best to make sure I talked with them and would have no regrets about things I never got to say. I committed myself to remembering how they lived instead of thinking about how they would die. I'm one of the only people who ever smiles at a funeral but then again I'm lucky enough to only have to bury people I like.  

So a few days later I go down to the parking garage to get into the car and when I open the car door I see the floor mats are covered with grave dirt. It's funny how the memory of the burial came right back. I know my sweetie would cry if she saw the dirt so I scrubbed the floor mats and cleaned the car to be sure there was no evidence of that day in or on the car. 

I remember that the weather was beautiful and although Jewish graveyards are greatly devoid of beauty since the tradition calls for very simple headstones and markers the beauty of nature shone through. I also remember that the immediate family claim to be atheists. Say what you will about religion. I've never seen a more miserable thing than an atheist at a funeral. I think they spend more time thinking about their own lives than about the person who just passed away. I've always found comfort in being a religious person. 

Anyways, I just wanted to share this and say that although you may think that life sucks sometimes and that things are hard life is a gift. You can do with it whatever you please. Sometimes choices are hard but you always have choices. The person who died lived through the deepest poverty in the great depression. They hadn't bought a single stick of furniture or piece of cutlery since the 1950's. Their humble apartment was like a museum. They brought life into the world knowing that the future was uncertain. They showed a daily toughness and dedication that puts me to shame. In my past I've never been as good as they were. I can only hope in my future I can live up to their example. 

So please everyone stick around because it is worth it. They were buried just a few days shy of their 100th birthday. They struggled in poverty from the days of horse and buggy to the age of computers and space travel. In the end they retired comfortably and it was an amazing journey. If someone can go through all that and die happy there is hope for all of us. Even those who sometimes feel hopeless. 

Shalom. 

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6 minutes ago, Mr. Fox said:

I've buried many people. I was even a pallbearer once.

Oh well, you live, you die, as is the way of life. At least we have memories. 

I've done that too. It's awkward when you feel like someone is slacking and not doing their share of the lifting with the coffin. 

Kind of hard to bring it up. You just kind of have to deal with it to avoid making a scene. 

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You're a good person #00Buck. 

I had a cousin of mine die a couple years ago due to a car accident with a logging truck. His father used a shovel and buried his son himself. I can't imagine what that must be like, but I feel like it takes a good bit of strength to do that for anyone. Even moreso to be at peace with it like you are. You seem to have a strong understanding of death and a strong respect for others, especially in their time of need. I'm glad you do such wonderful things for others #00Buck. Keep being you. And thank you for posting this; its inspirational, in a lot of ways. Not just for staying strong and pushing through when times get tough, but also for just motivating people to be better. That's pretty cool.

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34 minutes ago, Battlechili said:

You're a good person #00Buck. 

I had a cousin of mine die a couple years ago due to a car accident with a logging truck. His father used a shovel and buried his son himself. I can't imagine what that must be like, but I feel like it takes a good bit of strength to do that for anyone. Even moreso to be at peace with it like you are. You seem to have a strong understanding of death and a strong respect for others, especially in their time of need. I'm glad you do such wonderful things for others #00Buck. Keep being you. And thank you for posting this; its inspirational, in a lot of ways. Not just for staying strong and pushing through when times get tough, but also for just motivating people to be better. That's pretty cool.

Thanks. Now you know why I asked for a group hug earlier this week. Burying a body is hard work even if you have people helping. It is hard mentally and physically. Once you start you can't stop or show you are tired even if your arms are burning. You don't get a second chance or a do over so it has to be done right and respectfully. 

I'm not really a good person but I try very hard to be one. I've always told people that I've lived my life doing the wrong things for the right reasons. It makes no sense to most people but it has always worked for me. I've buried a lot of people. The good thing is after a while you start running out of people to bury. That's the nice part. 

I've lived through a lot of tragic things. At the time when you are going through them it is horrible. It is only years later that you realize that tragedy is what gives you the perspective to really see what matters in life. Tragedy breaks some people. Others become enlightened by it. I think I've had just enough to make me thankful. Also life punches me in the balls every now and then to keep me humble. 

Thanks for the compliments. 

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5 hours ago, #00Buck said:

Thanks. Now you know why I asked for a group hug earlier this week. Burying a body is hard work even if you have people helping. It is hard mentally and physically. Once you start you can't stop or show you are tired even if your arms are burning. You don't get a second chance or a do over so it has to be done right and respectfully. 

Oh... ok, sorry.

The level of respect you have for people is amazing,  and it definitely is an ideal to reach. I assume you treat life the same way - I wish there were more people like you. 

Again, sorry.

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I hadnt realized you were disguising a deep amount of sadness in the form of a group hug you werent about to explain until you were ready. My condolences, but Im glad you learned something deep from the experience

On another note if I were to go someday Id prefer Jewish burial to having a body in the coffin...I never quite liked the idea of stagnating in a box and taking up space

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4 hours ago, Mr. Fox said:

I knew you weren't just trolling. Glad I could oblige. :) 

Cheers! I'm happy that people participated and had fun. 

1 hour ago, Terminal7 said:

Oh... ok, sorry.

The level of respect you have for people is amazing,  and it definitely is an ideal to reach. I assume you treat life the same way - I wish there were more people like you. 

Again, sorry.

I appreciate your words. For me it was a happy occasion and a celebration of a life well lived. I've met some really exceptional people in my life. None of them grew up easy. They all struggled. Pressure turned their coal into diamonds. I envy who they became but I would never want to go though the trials they went through to get there. 

1 hour ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

I hadnt realized you were disguising a deep amount of sadness in the form of a group hug you werent about to explain until you were ready. My condolences, but Im glad you learned something deep from the experience

On another note if I were to go someday Id prefer Jewish burial to having a body in the coffin...I never quite liked the idea of stagnating in a box and taking up space

The Jews don't do cremation and they also don't do embalming. You are supposed to get the body into the ground as quickly as possible. For those who are not orthodox refrigeration is acceptable to preserve the body for a limited time which was done in this case. But yes the coffins are a simple pine box and the lack of enbalming means the body and box will return to the earth rather quickly. 

When I was shovelling the dirt I took one scoop and saw a big juicy looking worm. I immediately thought "this soil is so healthy!" It was too. The plants and birds in the cemetery all looked healthy and happy. If you want an organic burial this is the way to do it. I wanted a group hug because I was a bit bummed out and tired. I could have lived without it but there is no harm in asking. I thought maybe someone else is having a rough week and needs a hug too?

Cheers! 

5 hours ago, Endless/Nameless said:

This is a good post. 

You are a good person. 

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"I've never seen a more miserable thing than an atheist at a funeral."

I wasn't able to reach my home country before my grandfather's funeral, and it still hurts. But I appreciate that we can't have discussions about death without people taking cheap-shots at one another about religion.

I'm glad that you were able to attend your friend's funeral, and that it has provided emotional closure for you.

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My Grandmother passed away a few weeks ago, she was almost 99.  She was a nurse is WWII, her husband passed away 30 years ago, all of her 13 brothers and sisters had passed away, and she buried two of her three daughters (one to cancer and another to suicide).  Yet after all of this she was not bitter and did not fear death.  There is much we can learn from this.  

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18 hours ago, #00Buck said:

I've never seen a more miserable thing than an atheist at a funeral.

This is true. It's the end. The closest we'll ever be to that person again. Misery is completely natural, and entirely appropriate. 

18 hours ago, #00Buck said:

I think they spend more time thinking about their own lives than about the person who just passed away.

This is not true. There's more I'd like to say but I don't think it belongs here. Sorry for your loss and it's good to see you're coping through it.

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4 hours ago, Strongbob said:

My Grandmother passed away a few weeks ago, she was almost 99.  She was a nurse is WWII, her husband passed away 30 years ago, all of her 13 brothers and sisters had passed away, and she buried two of her three daughters (one to cancer and another to suicide).  Yet after all of this she was not bitter and did not fear death.  There is much we can learn from this.  

A very similar situation. People of that era are made of different stuff than the people of today. Best wishes and I hope you have many fond memories of your grandmother. 

3 hours ago, FlynnCoyote said:

This is true. It's the end. The closest we'll ever be to that person again. Misery is completely natural, and entirely appropriate. 

This is not true. There's more I'd like to say but I don't think it belongs here. Sorry for your loss and it's good to see you're coping through it.

I know the people who attended the funeral very well. I can assure you in this case it is the truth.

9 hours ago, ArielMT said:

This is a good thread.

I guess I had to make one eventually. 

9 hours ago, Conker said:

That was a wonderfully written post there, Buck. Thanks for sharing, and my condolences for your loss.

Cheers and thanks for the kind thoughts. 

13 hours ago, Feelwell the Rabbit said:

My condolences for the loss, but it is very good to know he lived a happy and fulfilling life, and his passing has such a positive impact. That's definitely the best way you can go.

It's good to know there's more to you, Buck. 

 

When it comes to getting to know me once you scratch the surface...

You find more surface...

Layers and layers of surface. 

13 hours ago, willow said:

Sorry to hear that. it sounds like he had a pretty full life though

It takes a lot of strength to say goodbye to people, even more to bury them. 

Thanks. Also for the sake of historical accuracy it was a she not that I ever tried to indicate that. All kind sentiments are still fully appreciated. 

11 hours ago, Saxon said:

"I've never seen a more miserable thing than an atheist at a funeral."

I wasn't able to reach my home country before my grandfather's funeral, and it still hurts. But I appreciate that we can't have discussions about death without people taking cheap-shots at one another about religion.

I'm glad that you were able to attend your friend's funeral, and that it has provided emotional closure for you.

Not a cheap shot. A life long observation. I've buried a lot of people. This has been a common trait of every atheist I've ever seen at a funeral. I've been alive a long time. I'd never cheap shot someone in a topic this important and sensitive. I'm disappointed that you'd make that kind of assumption about me. 

Thanks to everyone who had something kind to say. 

I really appreciate it. 

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3 hours ago, #00Buck said:

Not a cheap shot. A life long observation. I've buried a lot of people. This has been a common trait of every atheist I've ever seen at a funeral. I've been alive a long time. I'd never cheap shot someone in a topic this important and sensitive. I'm disappointed that you'd make that kind of assumption about me. 

 

And how would you feel if I said something similar about Jews?

When you make a thread about death, you should be mindful that other people will also have experienced the death of their kin. How do you think it makes them feel to be told that their religious status means that they are self-absorbed and are preoccupied with themselves rather than their dead loved ones?

 

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Doesn't it seem mildly ironic to be concerned with your image as described by another, when you find it offensive for them to consider someone with your beliefs as potentially focused on themselves?

It really doesn't have to matter what he thinks. He's just talking. He's just living with what he believes. It doesn't really have to affect you unless you see it to be directed at you.

Ideas can be argued for the sake of what they mean, but...for now, I'd like to extend the idea of letting a belief be a belief and letting this moment exist as it could be, which is a reflection on someone's experiences with the end of life.

 

As for the topic at hand...you've said some very meaningful things here, Buck. I really hope you have a good, quiet week. I'm not religious, but what you've described is what makes me think about what makes those who believe keep believing. It's a difficult time, but you've taken some important time to think and reflect on it and it shows. 

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4 hours ago, Saxon said:

And how would you feel if I said something similar about Jews?

When you make a thread about death, you should be mindful that other people will also have experienced the death of their kin. How do you think it makes them feel to be told that their religious status means that they are self-absorbed and are preoccupied with themselves rather than their dead loved ones?

 

I never said that. I simply stated a life long observation. 

There are also people in the world who are self-absorbed in a wide variety of life situations. That is a fact. As for how they feel I personally believe that being excessively self-absorbed is a negative personality trait. Self-hate, self-loathing, self-aggrandizement, self- harm. These are all negative things. Being self-absorbed is human but doing it excessively is harmful to yourself and people who care about you. 

I would have no feelings either way if you said the same about any group as long as it was the truth. 

If you had actually observed it over the course of your entire life and it is the truth then you can say it. That isn't any kind of negative "ism" it is just your life experience. I knew a man who was tortured in a Japanese prison camp in World War 2. Every Japanese person he met either tried to kill him or torture him. His story isn't "racist" it is documented history. That's just what happened to him. It does not make him a bad person. It also does not mean he hated anyone. His experience was one sided but that was his experience. It is as simple as that. I know he wasn't racist because I'm Japanese. 

If you were to say something about a group and it was a lie than I'd say you were being dishonest. 

The thing is I'm not lying and I have no agenda. I'm just relating a story about my life because I thought people here might get something out of it. I find it disappointing that some people can't just appreciate the genuine sharing of a life experience. 

31 minutes ago, FlynnCoyote said:

Then maybe you don't. I can't speak for other people but you are painting with a broad brush here. And you picked a real bad topic to bring it out on.

I do. You don't. There is no broad brush only the life I have lived. This is a perfect topic to ponder the meaning of life, the universe, and everything. 

The two times that I talk the most about these things with people are funerals and celebrating the birth of a new baby and it makes total sense. 

These are the two biggest events in everyone's life. The beginning and the end. 

Birth and death. 

Nothing gets bigger than either of those. 

4 hours ago, evan said:

Doesn't it seem mildly ironic to be concerned with your image as described by another, when you find it offensive for them to consider someone with your beliefs as potentially focused on themselves?

It really doesn't have to matter what he thinks. He's just talking. He's just living with what he believes. It doesn't really have to affect you unless you see it to be directed at you.

Ideas can be argued for the sake of what they mean, but...for now, I'd like to extend the idea of letting a belief be a belief and letting this moment exist as it could be, which is a reflection on someone's experiences with the end of life.

 

As for the topic at hand...you've said some very meaningful things here, Buck. I really hope you have a good, quiet week. I'm not religious, but what you've described is what makes me think about what makes those who believe keep believing. It's a difficult time, but you've taken some important time to think and reflect on it and it shows. 

Thanks Evan! You really understand where I'm coming from! Apparently so does almost everyone else who replied or liked this thread. 

I think it is abundantly clear that although I post a lot of silly crap on the forum I do genuinely care about life and people in general. 

It is also abundantly clear that I don't fit in here. There are other places on the internet where I could talk with people who think and feel the same way I do. They're in the same place I am. A generally good and healthy place that is comfortable. I choose to be here instead. 

Something that seems to be unclear is that when I disagree with someone or post a contrary opinion I'm not doing it because I have a political agenda or any kind of "ism" against people. I'm really not political at all. I just try and live my life as me and I really do think people should be able to do whatever they want in life as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

My life experience is not designed to offend you. If you are taking offence at things that have happened to me in life you really need to pause and re-think how you look at the world. 

Another thing that is unclear is that I have a dark sense of humour. When you have seen as much tragedy in your life as I have there is an old saying:

If you don't laugh you cry. 

I choose not to spend my entire life crying. I do this for my own survival. I know some of you might do the same thing. 

I like this forum because the people here need each other. They need support and encouragement and they get it. I think it would be nice if people got more of it and gave more of it but that is often blocked by dysfunctional behaviour. 

That's why I argue so strongly that the moderation of the forum should be democratic and transparent. I don't want everyone as a group wandering like a band of gypsies from one dysfunctional clique run forum to the next. I also realize that once the forum is cleaned up and the dysfunction is gone there won't be a place for me here anyone. 

But I'm okay with that because I know a people will become great friends. Struggling artists and students will get the support they need to get to the next level. Young people will become wise adults. Weak people will become strong. It is actually kind of beautiful what can be accomplished here if people could stop trying to pull each other down.

In short:

I believe in all of you even if you don't believe in yourselves at times.

It is sad when someone posts up a life event with no agenda and people come along and try to poke little holes in it.

It shows exactly the kind of attitude that makes this place less than awesome. 

But I'm overall very super duper over the top happy with the reception this thread has gotten. 

Thanks to all who commented positively. I've said everything I need to say so I'm going to stop posting in this thread now. 

Cheers forum! 

P.S. 

I'm glad I'm un-popufur

I'm also still not a furry. 

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go to an independent comic exhibition and buy original artwork from struggling artists to support their end goal of having a successful career in art. When I'm done encouraging artists and cheering them on towards their goals I'll come back here and post more of my normal run of the mill garbage posts that everyone hates so much. 

Peace I'm out!

*mic drop*

 

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1 minute ago, #00Buck said:

/

 

If I reply too much, I'm sure clove will find some reason to ban me.

Anyway, your comment touched a nerve because I lost my grandfather late last year and wasn't able to return to England, so could not attend his funeral. I asked for the funeral to be delayed so that I could return, but I was told it could not. He didn't want to die and was alone when it happened; everything went badly wrong for him at the end.

Maybe this helps you understand why saying "I think they spend more time thinking about their own lives than about the person who just passed away," brought those feelings back to the surface.

 

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6 hours ago, #00Buck said:

It is also abundantly clear that I don't fit in here. There are other places on the internet where I could talk with people who think and feel the same way I do. They're in the same place I am. A generally good and healthy place that is comfortable. I choose to be here instead. 

 

I'm not sure I really believe that. Furry or not, this forum is a pretty crazy meeting of people, and you certainly fit in on there, fish-status notwithstanding.

Plus, I like having you around, and rule of numbers says I ain't the only one.

So you know, I hope you don't feel unwelcome or unwanted here, because it isn't true. You a good dude, even when you're being a shitposting monster :P

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9 hours ago, #00Buck said:

My life experience is not designed to offend you.

I just wanted to highlight this. Just wow. And you know, its posters like you who keep me here and wanting to get this place to that dream. I believe in it, too. I really value you and your time, here. 

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I must say I enjoy your recent posts Buck. You've gone from silly/trolly and partially annoying fish-guy to a somewhat interesting and kind fish-guy with a side of wisdom. I don't always agree with everything you say, but it's a nice change of pace. <3

And good on you for doing what a lot of people can't/won't do.

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I feel like there is a moment in everyone's life where they have an increased sense of mortality. For me, it happened recently. What was terrifying about thinking about death is the fact that the only thing we have consistent in our life is our consciousness. Imagining a time where that is not the case was scary for me. Burying someone sounds like quite the experience. I think I would definitely have to be in the right mindset because I can barely handle funerals at times. 

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