Oh No! 'Rainfurrest' is Might Stop Being a Thing!

[Spot]

But what are you supposed to do? They technically weren't doing anything against the rules so after a certain point you just kind of accept it. I mean it's not like you can change it or anything.

That's just it, we don't know that saying something wouldn't have made a difference. You can only but try.

 

[#00Buck]

I think a good deal of it is a kind of damage control. While I'm sure there are some "decent" diapershitters out there (relatively speaking), a lot of people are probably trying to keep cons from further limiting their ability to be creepy pedo-faggots in public (i.e. no babyfur badges, limits on diaper paraphernalia, etc.)

Is this what is called "kink shaming?"

[Clove Darkwave]

This is what being nice to everyone regardless of conditions causes. It's an unbalanced way to be.

[Mentova]

Because everyone fears the statement:

"you're not in trouble, but I'd like to talk to you".

Is that the catchphrase of the AC con staff or something? lol

[Irreverent]

DoubleTree doesn't own anyone, it's one of Hilton's dozen or so sub-brands.

True that.  It is now.  That wasn't the case 10 years ago.  I'm still digging (mostly because it amuses me) but RF may have lost other hotels, not simply outgrown them and moved venues.

Edited October 11, 2015 by Irreverent

[AshleyAshes]

True that.  It is now.  That wasn't the case 10 years ago.  I'm still digging (mostly because it amuses me) but RF may have lost other hotels, not simply outgrown them and moved venues.

Well, if it happened, you shouldn't have much trouble finding it.  Conventions don't melt down QUIETLY.  They make the 'Con Circuit News' so to speak, like when Con No Baka melted down in Toronto and was booted from the hotel on the Saturday night when the convention was supposed to go till Sunday.  (Super low attendance, convention didn't generate the revenue necessary to cover it's bill with the hotel, so the hotel ended the contract to avoid having to bill them for the Sunday and to expect non-existent funds.

[Red Lion]

How much of a dribbling fuckwit do you have to be to shit yourself in public? I don't care if it's your kink/self-expression, that is unsanitary and disgusting. I don't care if you're keeping it in your diaper, diapers aren't 100% leak proof, if any of that gets on your hands or on a seat you happen to sit on you risk exposing people to E-coli, Hepatitis A, and viral gastroenteritis. VG is a notorious illness that plagues cruise ships because you have so many people in a contained area for a long period of time. Imagine how much that risk goes up if people are walking around a hotel (not that different from a cruise ship environment) with literal shitty diapers. And yes, you can DIE from from some of these if your infection is severe enough or you develop complications. All it takes is someone with a weakened immune system to get an infection and you have a death on your hands.

The only place you should EVER take a shit is in your toilet and then you should wash your hands thoroughly before you touch something. Fuck your kink, the health and safety of the other people comes first. If this is honestly going to be a problem that people are leaving used diapers laying around then I would sooner a hotel ban all diaper wearing on the premises than risk even one incident of leakage and potential infection. If you work in any kind of establishment where you have people eating or sleeping there should be a zero tolerance policy on any kind of unsanitary/risky behavior, even if it means stifling somebody's ability to express themselves/indulge their kink. 

[PastryOfApathy]

How much of a dribbling fuckwit do you have to be to shit yourself in public? I don't care if it's your kink/self-expression, that is unsanitary and disgusting. I don't care if you're keeping it in your diaper, diapers aren't 100% leak proof, if any of that gets on your hands or on a seat you happen to sit on you risk exposing people to E-coli, Hepatitis A, and viral gastroenteritis. VG is a notorious illness that plagues cruise ships because you have so many people in a contained area for a long period of time. Imagine how much that risk goes up if people are walking around a hotel (not that different from a cruise ship environment) with literal shitty diapers. And yes, you can DIE from from some of these if your infection is severe enough or you develop complications. All it takes is someone with a weakened immune system to get an infection and you have a death on your hands.

The only place you should EVER take a shit is in your toilet and then you should wash your hands thoroughly before you touch something. Fuck your kink, the health and safety of the other people comes first. If this is honestly going to be a problem that people are leaving used diapers laying around then I would sooner a hotel ban all diaper wearing on the premises than risk even one incident of leakage and potential infection. If you work in any kind of establishment where you have people eating or sleeping there should be a zero tolerance policy on any kind of unsanitary/risky behavior, even if it means stifling somebody's ability to express themselves/indulge their kink. 

Wow way to kink shame someone for simply expressing their inner, true self. This is an ACCEPTING community you filthy fucking bigot.

[Red Lion]

Wow way to kink shame someone for simply expressing their inner, true self. This is an ACCEPTING community you filthy fucking bigot.

Pff if your not considerate enough to keep an obvious health hazard away from the public you deserve all the consternation you get. I have transcribed to many medical documents full of shit-related horror stories to even remotely care whether you're sad you can't self-express. 

[PastryOfApathy]

Pff if your not considerate enough to keep an obvious health hazard away from the public you deserve all the consternation you get. I have transcribed to many medical documents full of shit-related horror stories to even remotely care whether you're sad you can't self-express. 

It's not a health hazard, it's a lifestyle. Fursecution ends today.

[Spot]

You guys are why I live.

[AshleyAshes]

How much of a dribbling fuckwit do you have to be to shit yourself in public? I don't care if it's your kink/self-expression, that is unsanitary and disgusting. I don't care if you're keeping it in your diaper, diapers aren't 100% leak proof, if any of that gets on your hands or on a seat you happen to sit on you risk exposing people to E-coli, Hepatitis A, and viral gastroenteritis. VG is a notorious illness that plagues cruise ships because you have so many people in a contained area for a long period of time. Imagine how much that risk goes up if people are walking around a hotel (not that different from a cruise ship environment) with literal shitty diapers. And yes, you can DIE from from some of these if your infection is severe enough or you develop complications. All it takes is someone with a weakened immune system to get an infection and you have a death on your hands.

The only place you should EVER take a shit is in your toilet and then you should wash your hands thoroughly before you touch something. Fuck your kink, the health and safety of the other people comes first. If this is honestly going to be a problem that people are leaving used diapers laying around then I would sooner a hotel ban all diaper wearing on the premises than risk even one incident of leakage and potential infection. If you work in any kind of establishment where you have people eating or sleeping there should be a zero tolerance policy on any kind of unsanitary/risky behavior, even if it means stifling somebody's ability to express themselves/indulge their kink. 

Hmm?  Oh.  The majority of ABDLs don't actually shit in their diapers.

[Skylar Husky]

Hmm?  Oh.  The majority of ABDLs don't actually shit in their diapers.

Yes, that is the case. To say everyone who is into infantilism and diaper wearing excretes into the diapers they wear is as wreckless of a thing to say as saying every fursuiter in the furry fandom has sex in their fursuits. 

Then there are those, and I have heard one actually brag about it, after he got on the elevator at a con and stunk it up, that only the "true, real, hardcore" ABDL's defecate in their diapers. Then he radioed that he needed a nappy change to his "daddy" back in the room or wherever he was. I couldn't wait to get off the stinking elevator at the next floor where it stopped, I resigned myself to get off and walk the rest of the way up. 

Edited October 12, 2015 by Skylar Husky

[AshleyAshes]

Yes, that is the case. To say everyone who is into infantilism and diaper wearing excretes into the diapers they wear is as wreckless of a thing to say as saying every fursuiter in the furry fandom has sex in their fursuits. 

Then there are those, and I have heard one actually brag about it, after he got on the elevator at a con and stunk it up, that only the "true,, hardcore" ABDL's defecate in their diapers. Then he radioed that he needed a nappy change to his "daddy" bak in the room or wherever he was. I couldn't wait to get off the stinking elevator and the next floor it stopped, I resigned myself to get off and walk the rest of the way up. 

I actually have no experience with babyfurs at conventions since I've never been to a furry convention but the anger in this thread is rather misplaced.  The diapers around the convention center is weird, but no one has said they we're 'used'.  The tweets by some babyfurs saying there's a diaper scavenger hunt around the convention is even WEIRDER and seems less plausible than the diapers being placed around by some trolls 'for the lulz'.  People seem overly concerned by the '*Crinkle*; con badge tags as if they think that this was somehow a significant factor in the hotel booting the convention.  The leather pup in the diaper, that's pretty out there, and seems to be an issue rainfurrest has with dress code.  I don't think him being bottomless in a diaper is any worse than him being bottomless in a leather thong... But I feel that people shouldn't be bottomless at a convention.

But then there's the damages.  Even Rainfurrest officially announced that Rainfurrest 2015 had caused more damage to the hotel facilities itself than it had in all years prior to that combined.  It's not even conjecture, it's been officially stated by the convention, but no one seems to be terribly enraged.  No one is raging about the financial damages caused by flooding bathrooms that then drained into the hotels operations offices.  Like, when the hotel manager or whoever was up there in ranking found that some offices had water raining down from the ceiling, damaging paper, files, computers and such, or when they saw leather dude in a diaper... Which do you think pissed them off more?  Cause I feel that one's thinking has to be somewhat clouded if they think that diapered leather pup scored gold on that one.  The babyfurs weren't even a new addition to the convention, it seems to have always been known for that, meanwhile I don't think that the hotel approved the construction of their new office based Slip-N-Slide.

I honestly feel that those who are using this thread to rant about babyfurs but are ignoring extensive, expensive, physical damages caused to the hotel, don't give a shit about Rainfurrest and just want to bitch about babyfurs,,

Edited October 12, 2015 by AshleyAshes

[Skylar Husky]

*snip for brevity*

I honestly feel that those who are using this thread to rant about babyfurs but are ignoring extensive, expensive, physical damages caused to the hotel, don't give a shit about Rainfurrest and just want to bitch about babyfurs,,

The meat and potatoes of what you have to say is concentrated in your final sentence. I like it the best and I will comment upon that.

Yes, you are right. This is a situation where ranting about babyfurs has driven a lot of the topic. And it is true that what is really bad was the gratuitous and wanton destruction of a convention space in a hotel. It is sure to be a bigger problem for the whole fandom if one by one these hotels, convention centers and resorts decide more and more that it is no longer worthwhile to host such events,

All valid points, there is however, a point to be made that there are certain aspects of the furry fandom that are problematic. the fact that so many have axes to grind with babyfurs speaks to the fact that there are segments of the furry fandom which are not happy with the subgroup. that deserves some acknowledgment and this all speaks to a larger picture issue that there needs to be a meeting of the minds by all the MC's. Con-chairs, whoever the HMFIC's of each of the cons happen to be, and a similar set of rules governing public behavior, expected mode of dress, what is and is not acceptable in the public convention space and then adherence and enforcement of that set of rules. If it is applied universally, consistently and honestly, the behavior of the guests will eventually be shepherded towards that purpose. 

[Vae]

The diapers around the convention center is weird, but no one has said they we're 'used'.  The tweets by some babyfurs saying there's a diaper scavenger hunt around the convention is even WEIRDER and seems less plausible than the diapers being placed around by some trolls 'for the lulz'.

Considering some of the other tweets, and the social tact of furries as a whole, is it truly that far-fetched?
I mean, someone flooded the goddamned bathroom. But a group of furries known for a specific fetish, and having already shown absolutely no social grace regarding said fetish during the entirety of the con... suddenly that's where we draw the line on believability? Only then does it become "them dang dirty fourchans" or whatever?
 

I don't think him being bottomless in a diaper is any worse than him being bottomless in a leather thong..

Diapers are sanitary objects.
They are not underwear.
They are not clothing items.

I already made this comparison, but it is literally like showing your tampon off in the public space, because of a fetish.
Literally.
That's what it is.
 

No one is raging about the financial damages caused by flooding bathrooms that then drained into the hotels operations offices.  Like, when the hotel manager or whoever was up there in ranking found that some offices had water raining down from the ceiling, damaging paper, files, computers and such,

There are more individual stories related to babyfur activity, therefore it's not surprising that it's a big point of discussion. The people who flooded the bathroom, as far as I know, also haven't been identified yet.
It brings up debate over what we consider acceptable conduct in cons and the fandom as a whole. Less damages or not, that's going to drive discussion more than an act of vandalism we can all unanimously agree was fucking stupid, and would get a beat down from the law anyway.
 

I honestly feel that those who are using this thread to rant about babyfurs but are ignoring extensive, expensive, physical damages caused to the hotel, don't give a shit about Rainfurrest and just want to bitch about babyfurs,,

Babyfurs are relevant to discussion within the fandom.
Whether or not they contributed to the absolute worst damages (and it's very possible they could have), they still did contribute heavily to the gross disregard for social tact and acceptable behavior within the con itself.

Regardless of "OH NO TEH PERSCUTIONZ!!!!"

[AshleyAshes]

Regardless of "OH NO TEH PERSCUTIONZ!!!!"

 

More like 'Ranting Furries, yet again'.  There's zero offical information that the babyfurs were a factor in Rainfurrest losing it's hotel, there's official statements that damages were, so everyone is very worried about their extensive conjecture about the babyfurs. 

[#00Buck]

Filthy baby furs...

[Clove Darkwave]

I don't know, usually from a management perspective if you find something/someone is a frequent issue of complaints you start to find a way to cut it out of your business. But perhaps cons aren't run like business, I wouldn't know. Perhaps they should be.

[Calemeyr]

Hmm?  Oh.  The majority of ABDLs don't actually shit in their diapers.

Furry ABDLs would be the minority percentage that do, seeing how fucked up this fandom is.

People are mostly blaming the babyfurs due to the diaper guy, but there were diapers being thrown around and clogged in a hot tub. If this was babyfurs, then this reeks of "in your face" fetishism and reacting poorly that people are against the fetish in the open.

People saying RF is a fetish con makes me think RF deserved being booted from the hotel. It needed to be more strict with fetishes. No panels on bondage or diapers, strict dress code, and rules on dealing with bad behavior.

The really bad shit, unfortunately, was probably drunk furries breaking shit, as usual. And there are a lot of drunk furries at cons, so I don't know if they'll be able to identify who flooded the bathroom.

 

Since the perpetrators of the more serious issues aren't known, in my opninion RF doesn't deserve to come back for 2016, or ever for that matter. Becsuse they may come back and cause more trouble.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Calemeyr

[PastryOfApathy]

 

More like 'Ranting Furries, yet again'.  There's zero offical information that the babyfurs were a factor in Rainfurrest losing it's hotel, there's official statements that damages were, so everyone is very worried about their extensive conjecture about the babyfurs.

 Oh come the fuck on.

[AshleyAshes]

but there were diapers being thrown around and clogged in a hot tub.

I know, diapers in the hot tub that was...

https://www.rainfurrest.org/2016/index.php/2015/10/05/a-letter-to-our-attendees/

towels stuffed into a hot tub pump

Oh... Wait... It was towels.  Towels.  Just, lemme try this here: Can you find any source that says it was diapers in the hot tub or did you just imagine it and then decide it was so?

[Red Lion]

Hmm?  Oh.  The majority of ABDLs don't actually shit in their diapers.

Doesn't have to be the majority,all it takes is one to actually shit their diaper to pose a serious health risk. we're not talking about a kink that makes people slightly uncomfortable, we're talking about something that could cause people to get sick. I would rather no one be allowed to wear diapers to a con at  all if it means the few that would actually soil theirs as part of their kink didn't have the opportunity to do so. If someone shits their underwear they're likely to be caught immediately and removed but in a diaper that kind of thing can go unnoticed for hours as long as no one is in smelling distance. 

People being drunk shits and breaking things should get the full brunt of the law brought down, no question, vandalism and destruction of property are serious crimes. But a lot of people seem to defend something if it's a kink or fetish, regardless of potential heath risks. Like some more extreme versions of vampire play, anything where there's a risk real blood might get on something should not be permitted in a public area. I know it seems unfair to ban a whole group for the actions of a few but when a single extremist can and does pose a real serious health risk safety should come before public self expression.
 

[AshleyAshes]

Doesn't have to be the majority,all it takes is one to actually shit their diaper to pose a serious health risk. we're not talking about a kink that makes people slightly uncomfortable, we're talking about something that could cause people to get sick. I would rather no one be allowed to wear diapers to a con at  all if it means the few that would actually soil theirs as part of their kink didn't have the opportunity to do so. If someone shits their underwear they're likely to be caught immediately and removed but in a diaper that kind of thing can go unnoticed for hours as long as no one is in smelling distance. 

People being drunk shits and breaking things should get the full brunt of the law brought down, no question, vandalism and destruction of property are serious crimes. But a lot of people seem to defend something if it's a kink or fetish, regardless of potential heath risks. Like some more extreme versions of vampire play, anything where there's a risk real blood might get on something should not be permitted in a public area. I know it seems unfair to ban a whole group for the actions of a few but when a single extremist can and does pose a real serious health risk safety should come before public self expression.

You seem highly concerned about diapers at a convention while not feeling that mandatory hand washing after going to the bathroom also needs to be a rule at the convention.

[Ginpanther]

God help me I'm going to defend some people here. Mark this day, as it is surely when I had a stroke of some kind yet unknown to medical science.

This situation at RF isn't "babyfurs ruin everything." In case you haven't figured it out already, I don't care for the subculture. Case in point, I think a number of the events ("several diapers have been hidden throughout the property!") are tacky and send a bad message about the fandom. But that was not the root issue here, and I'm going to say none of the other subcultures I dislike (leather-pup play) were at the heart of it either - not matter how a picture or two might paint things.

The root issue is a lack of accountability across the entire convention base and poor management by the convention staff. Full stop. This lack of accountability is built on an emerging culture of "I'm going to have fun, my way, and fuck everyone else." This has been gestating for years, I saw it when I was staffing in 2003 and I had to deal with ravers dancing on top of cars in the parking lot after a fire evacuation. To blame the problem solely on people who like dancing to loud repetitive music is disingenuous, it boils down to basic human decency and individual responsibility. People stuffing towels into pumps and intentionally flooding bathrooms (regardless of the mechanism)? Petty theft? General vandalism? Drunk attendees making idiots of themselves in public (or in their private rooms)? That's not a subculture issue, that's just rampant stupidity as a whole utilizing the excuse "PARTY PARTY PARTY!"

RF needs to start pulling badges faster, they need to start banning attendees, they need to tighten up their rules and they need to address their image problem most ricky-tick.

[Red Lion]

You seem highly concerned about diapers at a convention while not feeling that mandatory hand washing after going to the bathroom also needs to be a rule at the convention.

Except I stated in a previous post that the only place anyone should ever take a shit is a toilet and to wash their hands thoroughly. That's a common courtesy and a rule at most workplaces, no one should NEED to be told to do that. My response to diapers specifically is a direct reaction to people stating that they have encountered diaper shitters. 

And I agree with the above post by Ginpanther, tighter policing and higher standards for con behavior in general would be a good idea. 

[AshleyAshes]

Except I stated in a previous post that the only place anyone should ever take a shit is a toilet and to wash their hands thoroughly. That's a common courtesy and a rule at most workplaces, no one should NEED to be told to do that. My response to diapers specifically is a direct reaction to people stating that they have encountered diaper shitters. 

So, just to be clear, what do you feel should be done about adults who are incontinent?  The babyfurs and ABDLs use adult incontinency products, they're at most a side market, even the adult diapers you can get that are decorated all cute are basically just 'reskins' of existing adult products.  Where do those people fit in your view of society where any risk that someone might shit themselves must be eliminated?

[Red Lion]

So, just to be clear, what do you feel should be done about adults who are incontinent?  The babyfurs and ABDLs use adult incontinency products, they're at most a side market, even the adult diapers you can get that are decorated all cute are basically just 'reskins' of existing adult products.  Where do those people fit in your view of society where any risk that someone might shit themselves must be eliminated?

 

I feel like they should wear more than just a diaper for one thing, also that they have products at the ready in case of leakage or unforeseen accidents. Which most of them do. An incontinent adult is not going to walk around for hours in a shitty diaper. Most incontinent adults also have someone else with them to assist them in cleaning up if it's needed. If you're wearing pants or some other form of clothing over your diaper and you take care of an accident immediately then I don't really have a problem. Further more this isn't about babyfurs in general, but yeah I am totally ok with banning fetish related diaper wearing for everyone involved if it means reducing the risk of even just one incident. And again, it's not exclusive to babyfurs. I think it was the right decision to ban the whole con for the destruction of property that went on. Sure, it sucks for the majority of people who did nothing wrong, but you can't control your event then you shouldn't have an event.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Red Lion

[AshleyAshes]

I feel like they should wear more than just a diaper for one thing, also that they have products at the read in case of leakage or unforeseen accidents. Which most of them do. An incontinent adult is not going to walk around for hours in a shitty diaper. Most incontinent adults also have someone else with them to assist them in cleaning up if it's needed. If you're wearing pants or some other form of clothing over your diaper and you take care of an accident immediately then I don't really have a problem. Further more this isn't about babyfurs in general, but yeah I am totally ok with banning fetish related diaper wearing for everyone involved if it means reducing the risk of even just one incident.

But any hypothetical baby fur who DOESN'T clean up, is the reason to attempt to banish the entire kink?  And see, I'm all for pants or some other kind of mandatory 'bottom' unless one is specifically operating some kind of kink event but uhh... If everyone is wearing bottoms, how do you plan to detect the diaper wearers that you feel need banishment?  Even you said a risk is in individuals who stay out of 'smell distance' so... You want to seriously address an undetectable demographic?  Oh, or maybe 'diaper checks' for anyone caught wearing a baby fur con badge?  I'm sure that'd be kosher.

[Red Lion]

But any hypothetical baby fur who DOESN'T clean up, is the reason to attempt to banish the entire kink?  And see, I'm all for pants or some other kind of mandatory 'bottom' unless one is specifically operating some kind of kink event but uhh... If everyone is wearing bottoms, how do you plan to detect the diaper wearers that you feel need banishment?  Even you said a risk is in individuals who stay out of 'smell distance' so... You want to seriously address an undetectable demographic?  Oh, or maybe 'diaper checks' for anyone caught wearing a baby fur con badge?  I'm sure that'd be kosher.

They aren't hypothetical, that's the point, and most of them aren't going to wear pants if they don't have to, like the individual in the photo. And yeah, it's totally possible someone is going to fly under the radar or just take a crap in the hallway when no one's looking because people are fucking disgusting. I'm still ok with a general rule that mandates pants and external wear over diapers, no exceptions, or even banning kink expression on the grounds that the group is not policing themselves and taking care of extremists. Even if that means people don't get to express their kink. I can not reiterate enough that this goes for any and all kinks where extreme expression  poses sanitation and health risks to people around them. 

[Onnes]

I'm assuming that we can all at least agree that strictly banning fetish gear in public is probably a no-brainer of a policy for a convention that is supposed to be family friendly.

[AshleyAshes]

They aren't hypothetical, that's the point, and most of them aren't going to wear pants if they don't have to, like the individual in the photo.

Do you have any other examples of individuals running around conventions with diapers and no pants other than that one guy?

 

I'm assuming that we can all at least agree that strictly banning fetish gear in public is probably a no-brainer of a policy for a convention that is supposed to be family friendly.

Well that REALLY depends on the convention.  In a good portion you can find porn for sale in the dealers room and even Bad Dragon products.  Not to mention collars and harnesses and the like for sale.  To say furry conventions are 'family friendly' is really going to depend on the convention.

Edited October 12, 2015 by AshleyAshes

[PastryOfApathy]

Well that REALLY depends on the convention. In a good portion you can find porn for sale in the dealers room and even Bad Dragon products.

Well you can't have it both ways. Either go full gross fetish thing and advertise it as such (to the con space, attendees, everyone), or don't and ban this kind of social retardation.

[AshleyAshes]

Well you can't have it both ways. Either go full gross fetish thing and advertise it as such (to the con space, attendees, everyone), or don't and ban this kind of social retardation.

I'm wondering who goes to a furry con and doesn't expect porn and kinks.  Like, literally, half the commerce that goes on in this fandom is about porn or sex.

[Onnes]

Well that REALLY depends on the convention.  In a good portion you can find porn for sale in the dealers room and even Bad Dragon products.  Not to mention collars and harnesses and the like for sale.  To say furry conventions are 'family friendly' is really going to depend on the convention.

They allow young minors and don't advertise themselves as a kink oriented convention. This is why the porn and porn accessories are supposed to be hidden from plain view in the dealers room or put in an age restricted area.

If they want to be a place where that kind of adult content is out in the open then they should make that explicit and organize under the necessary restrictions and notices.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Onnes

[Ginpanther]

Well you can't have it both ways. Either go full gross fetish thing and advertise it as such (to the con space, attendees, everyone), or don't and ban this kind of social retardation.

This is a convention-level policy problem that will never really be resolved, because there is no middle ground between things, only levels of attempted mitigation. Allowing adult materials in the dealer's room as long as there are Post-it stickies over the upsetting bits of anatomy in a portfolio only goes so far to an end. Similarly, having the Cock Box Adult Section in the art show (ooooh, it has a curtain at the entrance!) doesn't stop mischevious kids from getting in there. Ask me how I know. 

I'm wondering who goes to a furry con and doesn't expect porn and kinks.  Like, literally, half the commerce that goes on in this fandom is about porn or sex.

While I don't have a kid, I have five or six friends in the fandom who are parents. They absolutely expect porn and kinks at con, but they expect those items are at least moderated. For example, my friends didn't bring their kids into the dealers room or art show where they knew there will be material they find objectionable for their children. That's fair! Congratulations on being a parent and steering your offspring away from areas you know to be counter to your values. However, having somebody wearing nothing but a leather muzzle and a (choose your babyfur|bondage|whatever kink) bottom, roaming the general hallways as if they're part of the fursuit parade? Come on, you know that public space is a different standard. That's where this argument is really starting from.

[Red Lion]

Do you have any other examples of individuals running around conventions with diapers and no pants other than that one guy?

 

I'm pretty sure that guy isn't the sole pants-less diaper wearer and I've heard plenty of people (some of them on this site) give some pretty ghastly accounts of encounters with extreme behavior from people who think that they can express a fetish however they want. I've also seen people in skimpy kink gear and banana hammocks at public events that were supposed to be family friendly (pride parades where people were encouraged to bring children) and that didn't fly with me either. I see a high number of people getting shitfaced drunk and acting like morons as a valid reason to ban the serving of alcoholic beverages at events. I will say again, if you can't police your event and keep extremists from being a hazard don't have the event. Standards are important. 

[Calemeyr]

I know, diapers in the hot tub that was...

https://www.rainfurrest.org/2016/index.php/2015/10/05/a-letter-to-our-attendees/

Oh... Wait... It was towels.  Towels.  Just, lemme try this here: Can you find any source that says it was diapers in the hot tub or did you just imagine it and then decide it was so?

 

I heard diapers, sorry. Yeah, babyfurs aren't the problem. That could be fixed with a dresscode. Drunken vandalism? That's harder to stop. RF needs better security. The kind that escourts you out of the building to a cop car.

[RTDragon]

Even so considering if i recall back then FCN before it was replaced with Motor City Con did allow minors back then but then when it became an 18+ only convention which i can see why due to alcohol being involved. (Beer) Though it's been a few years since i've been to a con my last one was FCN.

[Calemeyr]

I'm wondering who goes to a furry con and doesn't expect porn and kinks.  Like, literally, half the commerce that goes on in this fandom is about porn or sex.

Then the furry fandom needs fo stop pretending it isn't a fetish or it needs to clean up it's cons and act like a fandom for once. 

 

All the furries who don't care about this stuff and don't speak up to staff are also the problem. "I just want to have fun! I don't care. I may not like that stuff, but I don't let it bother me." Well property damage bothers the hotel, so you need to speak up you selfish douchebag.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Calemeyr

[AshleyAshes]

Then the furry fandom needs fo stop pretending it isn't a fetish or it needs to clean up it's cons and act like a fandom for once. 

I think it might be a sex fandom.

[Red Lion]

Then the furry fandom needs fo stop pretending it isn't a fetish or it needs to clean up it's cons and act like a fandom for once. 

The thing is, there's not even a higher amount of people making porn or fetish art in the furry fandom than there is in the anime fandom or really any fandom. The fandom itself is literally just about anthro animals, the kinks and fetishes are secondary and not exclusive to this fandom alone. The difference seems to be that the general mentality of the furry fandom is that being a furry is some kind of life expression akin to being LGBT. 

[Zeke]

I heard diapers, sorry. Yeah, babyfurs aren't the problem. That could be fixed with a dresscode. Drunken vandalism? That's harder to stop. RF needs better security. The kind that escourts you out of the building to a cop car.

That's where they need to look for furs with real security experience instead of just picking up every Tom, Dick, and Harry that looks burly enough to be one. Considering that there's a healthy chunk of furries that work as security or Law Enforcement, it isn't hard to do to advertise it.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Ozriel

[Tsuujou]

That's where they need to look for furs with real security experience instead of just picking up every Tom, Dick, and Harry that looks burly enough to be one. Considering that there's a healthy chink of furries that work as security or Law Enforcement, it isn't hard to do to advertise it.

EXCUSE ME MISS. IS THAT A SLUR I SEE? AM I GONNA HAVE TO COMPLAIN?

[Zeke]

EXCUSE ME MISS. IS THAT A SLUR I SEE? AM I GONNA HAVE TO COMPLAIN?

I already fixed that mistake. I meant to spell chunk. And chink also means a narrow crack or opening. Now who's being racist here? :V

Edited October 12, 2015 by Ozriel

[Calemeyr]

The thing is, there's not even a higher amount of people making porn or fetish art in the furry fandom than there is in the anime fandom or really any fandom. The fandom itself is literally just about anthro animals, the kinks and fetishes are secondary and not exclusive to this fandom alone. The difference seems to be that the general mentality of the furry fandom is that being a furry is some kind of life expression akin to being LGBT. 

I don't know if the average LGBT individual would like being associated with furries who want to add F to that list. It's like otherkin acting like "trans-species" is a thing and transgender individuals hate that.

Furry is not a sexual orientation, people. If you see it as sexual, it's a fetish to you.

Ya know, furries seem to be the only group on the planet besides fundamentalist religious types who think there is such a thing as a lifestyle based on your sexual identity.

I mean, why do furries march at pride parades? Are they marching becauze they're gay or because they're furries? It should only be the former. Trying to tie the fandom to a particular sexual identity seems to be common in the fandom, but it kinds overgeneralizes the demographics. It's not just gay males. There's lesbians, transgender people, aesexuals, bisexuals, and yes, even the mythical straight furry.

 

Furries need to decide whether their fandom is a fandom or if it is grindr/fetlife.

Edited October 12, 2015 by Calemeyr

[AshleyAshes]

The thing is, there's not even a higher amount of people making porn or fetish art in the furry fandom than there is in the anime fandom or really any fandom.

Because this fandom itself has very little to actually be a fan of.  In the anime fandom you have literally about a hundred anime series airing per year as well as nearly bottomless amounts of manga being published and that's before we even get into the hentai and the doujinshi.  The furry fandom is kind of a fan of nothing but itself.  Sure there are Disney films and other stuff featuring anthro animals but that stuff is few and far between.  This is basically a fandom where the vast majorities are creating original fiction, be it fursonas, roleplay, comics, or writing.  If the fanfiction and fan artworks of other fandoms have taught you anything, it's that half the time people go straight to making it into porn.

Now, if there were even at least dozens of 'Anthro Shows' coming out on TV, covering fantasy, crime, action, super powers and every other genre imaginable, the face of this fandom would very, very, very different.  This isn't the reality of this fandom though, in this fandom we are basically left to our own creative device and most of us aren't very creative so we're 'Well, they should totally fuck.  That'd be a great story.  Not just fuck, but fuck HOTLY!'

[Troj]

How kosher would it be for con staff to patrol Twitter for red flags and people who are causing/likely to cause trouble?

Seems like a lot of morons advertise their intentions and antics on social media, so you could nip a lot of stuff in the bud just by keeping an eye on hashtags and posts related to the con.

With regards to the bigger picture here, there are those of us who strongly want furry to not be seen as a fetish, and some who strongly want it to be seen as a fetish, and many people somewhere in between the two poles. Call me a mean bitch, but my personal feeling is that the needs of the people who want their furry interest to be seen as innocent, innocuous, and non-sexual outweigh the needs of the fetishists. I say this because it's easier for people to accept that a non-sexual thing has sexual aspects or niches than it is for them to accept the inverse, typically, and once people have decided that something is sexual, it's hard to convince them otherwise.

It's quite inconsiderate to compromise or hurt other people's ability to enjoy the fandom (which includes being able to attend gatherings and cons) just so that you can "express" yourself without having to compromise.

[Red Lion]

Because this fandom itself has very little to actually be a fan of.  In the anime fandom you have literally about a hundred anime series airing per year as well as nearly bottomless amounts of manga being published and that's before we even get into the hentai and the doujinshi.  The furry fandom is kind of a fan of nothing but itself.  Sure there are Disney films and other stuff featuring anthro animals but that stuff is few and far between.  This is basically a fandom where the vast majorities are creating original fiction, be it fursonas, roleplay, comics, or writing.  If the fanfiction and fan artworks of other fandoms have taught you anything, it's that half the time people go straight to making it into porn.

Now, if there were even at least dozens of 'Anthro Shows' coming out on TV, covering fantasy, crime, action, super powers and every other genre imaginable, the face of this fandom would very, very, very different.  This isn't the reality of this fandom though, in this fandom we are basically left to our own creative device and most of us aren't very creative so we're 'Well, they should totally fuck.  That'd be a great story.  Not just fuck, but fuck HOTLY!'

 

This is also true. There's not a whole lot of media that is exclusively about animal characters and a good chunk of the media that does usually has humans in it and it's pretty much all aimed at children. Likewise when I do see popular animal centric media that isn't porn the artist usually doesn't explicitly categorize it as "furry" (example: the Lackadaisy webcomic by Tracy Butler). It is really easy to mistake "furry" for being a fetish. Most other fandoms usually have characters and stories to revolve around but "Furry" is much broader, it's a concept or a design and that puts it very open to being morphed around different forms of expression making it a much more loosely interpreted fandom. 

[Onnes]

How kosher would it be for con staff to patrol Twitter for red flags and people who are causing/likely to cause trouble?

Seems like a lot of morons advertise their intentions and antics on social media, so you could nip a lot of stuff in the bud just by keeping an eye on hashtags and posts related to the con.

...

It's a private event at a private venue so I don't think there's anything stopping staff from scanning public social media for potential trouble. Ethically? It probably depends on how the con chooses to react to different kinds of information. There's a big difference between being on the lookout for misbehavior and preemptively banning someone for a weird tweet. And of course the balance depends on what behavior is being implied, as cons already ban people for hints of illegal or violent activities on social media.

I strongly agree that the fandom should not be allowed to become a solely sex-focused thing (at least moreso than it already has). Conventions are the worst place for that to happen since they involve real people without any real barriers between each other and the public at large.