Kellie Gator Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 So how about that Warcraft trailer, huh? Looked pretty damned lame to me but maybe it's because I was never into Warcraft. No, I'm not complaining about CGI, it just looked like childish crap.Also, I like to read comment sections... which I shouldn't, they're often a nightmare. And in the comment sections on sites that posted the new trailer I see a lot of obsessing over that magical word I keep hearing everywhere in geekdom, LORE. It happened here, it happens in Dragon Age, it happens in Star Wars, etc. etc.I've never understood this lore mentality, this obsession over continuity and shit. Well, maybe I'm somewhat guilty of this in some franchises like Metal Gear but I still try to enjoy each installment as an individual entity. But for these lore-purists, everything must fit together despite being convoluted and despite a lot of details being boring as shit or drawn out. I've been researching a bit into Warhammer 40000 lately and the amount of lore there is fucking terrifying, how to people have the patience to keep up with this shit?I also remember reading a hilarious comment section argument about the latest Dragon Age: Origins and it's use of LGBTQ characters. The argument was over how preachy or in-your-face the game was about how LGBTQ is good and homophobia is wrong. Several dudes argued that the gayness wasn't in your face, but the guy on the other side had an, erm, intriguing argument: The in-your-face gayness isn't in the actual games, but in a bunch of the series lore that the poster himself OPENLY ADMITTED NO ONE BUT HIM WOULD ACTUALLY CARE ABOUT, and if no one cares but him it's not that in-your-face, no?So yeah, lore is weird. But sometimes I fear I'll fall into the same trap in the novel series I write, all in the same universe. But I'm trying to make them reasonably independent from each other....I'm bored today so that's why this thread blows. Bleh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charrio Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 To me lore matters in movies especially.Too many time directors or studios change the facts or story and often so drastically that it's not the same concept at all just takes the names from the original.Look at World War Z, a wonderful book but travesty of a movieTransformers, Michael Bay need I say moreAvatar the Last Air-Bender, and so on. Studios and directors seem to have to change things so they can own rights to it, why would they just follow a story well written and ready for them? They can but always, always choose not to in favor of promoting some terrible actor or music artist. I think I have seen 2 or 3 movies in my time that are copies of a book or story as much as possible to the core material Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I think the reason why a lot of people place such heavy emphasis on lore is because, especially for a franchises like Warcraft and Dragon Age, it's one big story basically. minor inconsistencies can usually be glossed over but trying to be consistent in your storytelling is pretty important. even if they are separate entitiesanyways, I'm reasonably excited for the Warcraft movie. I don't have high hopes for it only because it's a movie based off a video game and those tend to be average or just suck. but the fact that it's finally happening is cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Doggo Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 In the case of WH40k, the lore is important because it's basically one giant story. It creates the "universe", a giant fictional entity where infinitely more stories can occur and link together with previous and future events.40k lore started out basically as flavour text for the rulebooks and Codexes. In a lot of games that don't initially follow a story, the story/background/ongoing lore kind of just happens as a result of feeling the need to explain a few things. Some whats, whens, and whys. Asking a question just raises more questions that get answered.Why are the Space Marines and Imperial Guard fighting against the universe, can't they try for peace? Why can't there be peace? Chaos? What is Chaos, and who are the Chaos gods, what do they do, why, where did they come from? The warp? What's that? What's a daemon? Why are the Eldar a dying race? What have they got to do with the Dark Eldar? Why are the Orks such assholes? What's up with the Tyranids, what's a hive fleet, how do they live, what do they do, what makes them different from animals? So with all these guys, what's happened in the past? What's happening now? What's gonna happen? What's the end-game?The 40k lore is exhaustingly long and different sources sometimes contradict each other. But it has a way of making different factions look even more appealing and fuel creativity in the hobby. It's a tabletop game, ridiculous amounts of over-the-top backstory has a way of making a game board with array of beautifully painted models and carefully sculpted gothic architecture look just a little more fascinating and involving. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellie Gator Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Transformers, Michael Bay need I say moreI could understand most of this post but... Transformers? Really? There are only about kajillion different versions of Transformers and most of them are fucking stupid (in a good way, but stupid nonetheless) except maybe the comics.It's like complaining about fucking up the lore for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles; there are just so many different versions of TMNT. And I'm one of the bigger TMNT fangirls you'll find....that movie from last year was fucking garbage BTW, but not because of lore inconsistencies.In the case of WH40k, the lore is important because it's basically one giant story. It creates the "universe", a giant fictional entity where infinitely more stories can occur and link together with previous and future events.I never liked the "one big story" argument because shouldn't these things be self-contained rather than spread around everywhere like fucking Dragon Balls or whatever? I don't know how in god's name anyone is supposed to know the whole story of something as big as Warhammer 40k. Nobody is going to know the complete story and if they don't, what's the fucking point and why should we even bother obsessing over that crap, then? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charrio Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I could understand most of this post but... Transformers? Really? There are only about kajillion different versions of Transformers and most of them are fucking stupid (in a good way, but stupid nonetheless) except maybe the comics.It's like complaining about fucking up the lore for the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles; there are just so many different versions of TMNT. And I'm one of the bigger TMNT fangirls you'll find....that movie from last year was fucking garbage BTW, but not because of lore inconsistencies.Well me being a total Generation one fan kind of hurt my vision of lore as well.Also the fact of not getting the voices everyone loved from the TV show really hurt a lot But that is just my opinion, I know transformers are stupid but keep to what the fans you are aiming at want to see.Megatron as a gun for one and the story of the transformers not about, some human no one wanted or gives a crap about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Doggo Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 I never liked the "one big story" argument because shouldn't these things be self-contained rather than spread around everywhere like fucking Dragon Balls or whatever? I don't know how in god's name anyone is supposed to know the whole story of something as big as Warhammer 40k. Nobody is going to know the complete story and if they don't, what's the fucking point and why should we even bother obsessing over that crap, then?There's the big picture and then there's the little picture. The little picture is games like Dawn of War and novel series like Horus Heresy and Gaunt's Ghosts. The big picture is the backstory. Not all stories are supposed to be followed A to B, especially in a tabletop game. It's a supplement, it's flavour, it's something to enjoy when you're not playing. Reading about lore for things like these is more like reading a history book than a novel.Nobody is going to know the complete story and if they don't, what's the fucking point and why should we even bother obsessing over that crap, then?Having fun with something to nerd out about. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naesaki Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) Having fun with something to nerd out about.Considering Kellie's stance on nerds as being horrible and disgusting basement dwellers and neckbeards she wants nothing to do with cause they go against societal norms, this concept is going to be sorely lost Edited November 7, 2015 by Naesaki Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellie Gator Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share Posted November 7, 2015 Considering Kellie's stance on nerds as being horrible and disgusting basement dwellers and neckbeards she wants nothing to do with cause they go against societal norms, this concept is going to be sorely lost Actually I might be able to understand since I can get nerdy about reptiles or biology and... I'd be lying if I said I didn't like talking animal stuff.Just tried watching that new Bugs Bunny show, Wabbit, that I missed out on because Metal Gear Solid V.The show isn't funny, though. :[ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Umbra.Exe Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Well me being a total Generation one fan kind of hurt my vision of lore as well.Also the fact of not getting the voices everyone loved from the TV show really hurt a lot But that is just my opinion, I know transformers are stupid but keep to what the fans you are aiming at want to see.Megatron as a gun for one and the story of the transformers not about, some human no one wanted or gives a crap about. I love G1 as well, but I think Kellie kind of has a point there. For one, Megatron has been a lot more things than just a gun since G1 (Tanks, helicopters, a freaking dinosaur)... Although the focus on Sam is... yeah. I didn't come to see humans, I came to see GIANT ROBOTS! >:VI have to disagree on some of the voices though. I don't think Frank Welker's voice would suit Bay's Megatron... Although I was happy that Peter Cullen was Optimus. (And again, Megatron and Optimus have had different voices over the years... But yes, I do like when they use the original actors sometimes.)As for lore... I noticed the third Bay film reminded me of the G1 episode(s) "Megatron's Master Plan." I got some major deja-vu watching that one. >> 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikazuki Marazhu Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Considering Kellie's stance on nerds as being horrible and disgusting basement dwellers and neckbeards she wants nothing to do with cause they go against societal norms, this concept is going to be sorely lost Dance like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolflich Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 Whether or not I care about lore depends entirely on what I'm playing and why. If it's an RPG or other story driven game then yeah obviously that's going to be important, because why would I care about a game like that if the writing is shit or inconsistent? But if it's something like battlefish or codfield when I just run around killing people online, I probably won't even play the campaign. Then there's some sort of in-between games where it's mostly action and you can ignore the story if it bores you or pay more attention to dialogue if you find it interesting. Like Halo. I liked playing those back when I occasionally played console games, but mostly just because they were nice to look at and I could run around killing the shit out of everything. I followed what was said in the games to some extent but I don't care at all about the books and backstory because ultimately that's not what draws me to the game.I would say it's much like anything else then. If you make an action-oriented game with a shit combat system, you've fucked up. If your game has a strong RP element and shit lore, you've fucked up. Whether or not it matters depends mostly on whether or not it was intended to be a part of the game that people would give a shit about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luka Posted November 7, 2015 Share Posted November 7, 2015 (edited) I love me some Elder Scrolls lore. The creators of these series spend so much time and effort into making a world that is rich and seems believable. That there are some many geeks adamant about X franchise's lore means that the people behind it did a good job. Edited November 7, 2015 by Luka Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodshot_Eyes Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Lore is fun. I love a good story. It kinda sucks when it ends and you want more though. It doesn't have to travel the same line all the time though, there's a wide spectrum of different lines from every perspective. It's fun to see one story line to a point then watch another story line intersect with it; it's amazing seeing it on a grand scale, even a fictional one. Lore is a multidimensional story; instead of just a line, it's a mass of lines. It's a matrix of different perspectives coalescing into a a collective perspective of a reality. The more expansive and coherent it is, the more the more epic and "real" it becomes and the more interesting it becomes. I'm guessing the fascination with lore comes from the feeling of creating and understanding a total model of reality in one's own mind, even if it's just a story we tell ourselves. Not everybody will agree on the same story, some details are unbelievable without other details, and certain details are only seen by certain perspectives. There's a certain magic to story telling. Imagine a story's details as fragments of reality; each of different size and mass all orbiting around each other, pulling on each other, slinging each other around. The placement of these details affects the way they orbit around each other, and whether it can maintain its structure or fall apart. Enjoying a lore is like watching a juggler juggle a few balls, then more are thrown on, then balls of different weights, then different shapes, now a chainsaw, holy shit he's still juggling, this is amazing, it's gotten so big and perilous. Bravo!Basically lore is just an other form of art, and some people dig the fuck out of that style. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machine Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 The lore doesn't matter when Blizzard itself decides to shit all over it. (see: Warlords of Draenor) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sourdough Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Lore only matters when I'm trying to make sense of the mad ramblings of Hideo Kojima. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlynnCoyote Posted November 8, 2015 Share Posted November 8, 2015 Is this really that hard to figure out? A good story is what makes any movie, tv, or game franchise worthwhile, it's only natural that it be taken seriously. Especially by the more dedicated fans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecker Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Should have been Diablo, fuck stupid Warcraft... 110% truth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellie Gator Posted November 9, 2015 Author Share Posted November 9, 2015 (edited) Should have been Diablo, fuck stupid Warcraft... 110% truth.Why not Starcraft?Fantasy is so bleh these days, a Starcraft movie might've been interesting... I think. I haven't played Starcraft since the late 90's to be frank. Edited November 9, 2015 by Kellie Gator 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolflich Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Starcraft has about as much to add to sci-fi as Warcraft has to add to fantasy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Doggo Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Starcraft has about as much to add to sci-fi as Warcraft has to add to fantasy.Didn't Blizzard take tons of inspiration from the two Warhams for both Starcraft and Warcraft? Something about them being denied the rights to the IPs they wanted to make stuff about originally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hewge Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Starcraft would make a better movie than Warcraft, but Warcraft has a much larger audience to target. Not only that, but a Warcraft movie will just rake in more of both old and new players for WoW. Didn't Blizzard take tons of inspiration from the two Warhams for both Starcraft and Warcraft? Something about them being denied the rights to the IPs they wanted to make stuff about originally.I don't think so. I love both Starcraft and Warhammer a lot, but they are quite different. I guess there's some similarities, but they're definitely prominent in their own ways. Which is good! I do remember reading stuff about some kind of debacle with Warhammer and Blizzard a long while ago, but I'm pretty sure it was just a bunch of bubble. Nerds always had raging boners for rivalries and rumours in the 90s. Not that any of it really means anything now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toboe Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 Warcraft movie? Give us a new warcraft game, with the custom map community like in 3! Didn't Blizzard take tons of inspiration from the two Warhams for both Starcraft and Warcraft? Something about them being denied the rights to the IPs they wanted to make stuff about originally.Heard something like that, too. Warcraft being named Warcraft and not Warhammer because of IP rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted November 9, 2015 Share Posted November 9, 2015 As far as the Lore goes in the Warcraft universe, if the movie does anything is that it'll bring back interest in the old RTS series since Metzen mentioned at Blizzcon wanting to go back and retell the story of the warcraft universe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecker Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 Why not Starcraft?Fantasy is so bleh these days, a Starcraft movie might've been interesting... I think. I haven't played Starcraft since the late 90's to be frank. Diablo is more up my alley in terms of gaming, but Starcraft is big time more movie material come to think of it... It would make one killer flick. We should start a petition! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kellie Gator Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share Posted November 10, 2015 Diablo is more up my alley in terms of gaming, but Starcraft is big time more movie material come to think of it... It would make one killer flick. We should start a petition!No, forcing a movie to be made is never a good idea. There has to be some drive and passion from the makers. >w> 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrecker Posted November 10, 2015 Share Posted November 10, 2015 No, forcing a movie to be made is never a good idea. There has to be some drive and passion from the makers. >w>But now I have that idea stuck in my head :((((It would be so awesome Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted November 11, 2015 Share Posted November 11, 2015 FYI: Uwe Boll had asked to direct the film before on several occasions and Blizzard responded with "lol no". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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