What do I even do. Updated

[Red Lion]

One of my friends came out of the closet to me this morning and I really don't know how to handle this. Not about him being gay, but about him being married to one of my other friends. A nice girl who is in love with him and thinks she's got the happiest marriage on earth. He confessed to me that he went out with her to hide the fact that he was gay and married her a few months ago because, according to him, he felt pressured. He confessed to me that he cheats on her and doesn't like being with her. While we were talking he said that he doesn't feel bad about using her or lying to her because he still has sex with her. Like what the fuck, how is that even remotely making up for it? She doesn't know you aren't attracted to her and you're basically pity fucking her because you feel like you have to. That's just shitty. Also this is fucking 2015, I know shit isn't perfect but I think you can come out of the closet, we have support groups and our town has a Pride center if you need help. I know how tempting it is to just stay in the closet and repress yourself but at some point you have to realize that no one, especially you, is going to benefit from that. I'm not 100% sure of his family's stance on the issue but one of his Uncles is gay and he's still part of the family. 

I told him pretty straight up to leave his wife. She and he have been my friends for about 2 years now and she's a really nice person.  When I started being open about my same sex relationships she was supportive and has never been anything but kind to me. There is no way for him to drop this kinda bomb on her and not leave her devastated but the sooner this is dealt with the better. 

He doesn't have one ounce of concern about how this will affect her life. She's not just his girlfriend, she's his WIFE she was ready to be his partner through thick and thin and share everything with him. But he still has sex with her so no need to spare her any sympathy -__-. He didn't even plan to tell her, he was hoping I'd just tell him to keep lying and cheating. When I told him that was an asshole thing to do he got defensive and insisted that he's not to blame for anything. He's not to blame for being gay, that's something he can't help. He is to blame for knowingly tricking a girl into going out with him and using her as a cover. Being gay doesn't mean you get a pass on being a fucking asshole. 

The question now is do I hope he breaks up with her and just stay out of it or should I just tell her myself and show her our chat log? I really fucking don't want to out someone who's not ready. I know how awful that can be, I know personally how important it is to feel safe and secure before you let people know. But what about his wife? It could be a long time before she knows anything and the longer anyone waits the more it's going to hurt her when it does come out. She also doesn't deserve to live a lie, she thinks he loves her and is happy with her. He told me he NEVER loved her or even really liked her. He picked her because she is really naive and isn't the type to ever question him. She trusts and likes pretty much everyone she meets. The fact that he's taking advantage of that makes me really angry but this isn't just regular cheating, outing someone can have consequences, even in a place that is seemingly tolerant. 

 

UPDATE: I ended up taking the advice of the people in this thread. I told him that if he didn't tell her I would. He refused and I ended up showing her the chat log. She was pretty devastated but I think she'll be fine. They've probably had a confrontation but I don't know much about what's going on with that. I probably never will and I'm content to just stay out of it. The whole thing left a bitter taste in my mouth.
 

Edited December 9, 2015 by Red Lion

[Vallium]

OMG that poor girl...that is unbelievably sad and heartbreaking. What a dick.

I get that outing a friend and especially when they confided in you is an awful thing to do...but dang.

You should tell him that you plan on outing him instead of going behind his back, "Look, What youre doing is wrong and you need to confess and tell the truth and leave her or I'll tell her". That way it wont be a surprise and look like a betrayal.

Sounds like there wont be any friendship anymore though...thats brutal

[Kalmor]

Tell him to be honest with her, insist it, even. You shouldn't get involved directly unless it's a last resort thing,  it would make things worse.

There's no point in living a lie like that and it will eventually be their downfall anyway. It's just a matter of time, might as well tell him to come clean and do it now.

The truth is sometimes harsh, but you still have to say it a lot of the time to prevent further distress.

[Red Lion]

I think it goes without saying that I wouldn't consider him my friend anymore. 

I also think giving him the ultimatum "You tell her or I will" may be the best option

[Zytan]

I think if it were me in your shoes I'd further emphasise that the further in he goes the farther he has to climb out and the more damage he would leave in his wake.  I've read the odd story about similar marriages with the husband coming out ten or so years into the marriage and a huge amount of distress on both ends for it.  The sooner they both get out of it the more likely they both have chances of rectifying their own lives.

If he's a good friend I'd strongly suggest being adamant on your views, regardless of any arguments it leads to.  Eventually it'll be drilled into his head, whether it costs the friendship or not, it depends on how much you care about the matter.  If he's got a shred of decency he'd apologise to you post-blowout anyway.

Going straight to her on the other hand would perhaps be best left as a last resort if your friend's adamant he's going to keep it hushed up, but that's definitely going to end your friendship for good, again it depends on how much you care.

[Red Lion]

Knowing that he did this, that it's in him to take advantage of somebody like this makes me feel like he's not who I thought he was. I don't really give a fuck if our friendship is over at this point I'm bitterly disappointed in him.

I mostly don't want to out him because that is a scummy thing to do to someone's who's not ready and can have really devastating consequences on its own. Meanwhile I think I will just keep pushing for him to break if off. Then when this matter is settled I'm going to stop speaking to him. People who use other people for their own means NEVER have a good enough reason for it.

[Zytan]

I suppose unless you're in their shoes the reason(s) for their actions do seem rather shallow, but perhaps they're more objective.  Regarding post-incident go with what you feel's best, otherwise you'd be repeating his mistake and doing what isn't 'you'.  If you're not too fussed about your friend afterwards you could skip straight to the last resort and then leave the entire situation, it's certainly a lot faster and it saves you the pain of trying to help someone you're soon not to give a damn about.  Depends on how heartless you're feeling, but it would definitely make sure he doesn't do something similar again.

Edited December 7, 2015 by Zytan

[Red Lion]

I suppose unless you're in their shoes the reason(s) for their actions do seem rather shallow, but perhaps they're more objective.  Regarding post-incident go with what you feel's best, otherwise you'd be repeating his mistake and doing what isn't 'you'.  If you're not too fussed about your friend afterwards you could skip straight to the last resort and leave the entire situation, it's certainly a lot faster and it saves you the pain of trying to help someone you're soon not to give a damn about.  Depends on how heartless you're feeling, but it would definitely make sure he doesn't do something similar again.

That's part of the trouble, I don't know how I feel. I know I don't want to be friends with him at this point. But I still don't want anything bad to happen to him, I don't want anything bad to happen to anyone. Being outed at the wrong time can ruin someone's life. But she's also my friend and the idea of her stuck living a lie is upsetting to me. I firmly believe that there is never justification to use someone or to lie to them for your own sake. What he's doing goes against my personal sense of morality and it could ruin HER life if this is just left alone. The fact that he doesn't give two shits about how this will affect her doesn't make this easier.

However it also goes against what I feel is "the right thing to do" to just blow his cover and leave him to deal with the aftermath. I'd feel like if something bad happened to him as a result of outing him that'd be my fault for "blowing the whistle". It's not because I want to save our friendship, it's because I don't like seeing people, even ones who I'm not sure are good people, end up harmed or homeless...or dead because they feel like they have no way to go on. Granted I might be biased because I've had this closeted dilemma and I know how crippling it feels to try and maintain the illusion that you're like everyone else. I still don't think that's a good enough reason to marry someone you don't love. To drag someone else into your life knowing that you can only hurt them in the end.

[Wolflich]

I'd feel obliged to tell her if I cared about her at all: he's risking her health as well as her emotional wellbeing by sleeping around. Maybe I'd give him the rest of the day to spin it or disappear, if I thought he was in danger.

[Brass]

I dunno man. Outing him makes you a pretty shitty person

[MissFleece]

He seems like a selfish asshole, I'd give him a time limit on telling her. Collect evidence if you can, sometimes people will turn it on you and make you out to be a liar bent on ruining their perfect relationship.

[Wrecker]

Stay out of that mess, leave that for your friend to figure out.

That is unless you really want to be the person to throw the wrench in the works.

It's not your ballgame.

[MuttButt]

Yeah, she needs to know. This is awful on so many levels. Despite how shitty it is emotionally, she's also liable to catch an STD from him if he is sleeping around. I agree with the plan that has been proposed alread6 by several people, tell him that either he tells her the truth or you will.

20 hours ago, Brass said:

I dunno man. Outing him makes you a pretty shitty person

But condoning his lying, cheating, and using of another human being is a-ok right?

[Toshabi]

Dude, the divorce court for her. She gonna be rolling in the Benjamins. He totally deserves to take that financial fissure up the ass for what he did. I'd end him right there tbh. I would not be afraid of losing that friendship. CHEATING IS HORRIBLE AND IT SUCKS AND IT IS NOT APPROVED BY TOSHABI NOOOOOO SIR!

 

 

 

Edit: DUUUUUUUUUUUDE! IMAGINE IF HE PICKS UP A GNARLY STD AND GIVES IT TO HER DURING A PITY FUCK!!!!!!!!! HOLY SHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIT WARN THAT GAL!!!!!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!

Edited December 9, 2015 by Toshabi

[Kinare]

Wow, what a fucking asshole. How can you be so heartless to not have remorse for doing that to someone? My heart aches for her and I don't even know her and I so badly want to strangle him. I agree with those who have said that you need to urge him to tell her because it's best that she hears it right from him for many reasons, and I also agree with saying what you stated "you tell her or I will". Give him a set amount of time too. "If you don't tell her by such and such tine, I will". Then do it. She needs to know sooner rather than later, regardless of who tells her.

[Red Lion]

There's an update at the bottom of the OP.

[Taikugemu]

Well, i think you did the right thing.

[Toshabi]

39 minutes ago, Red Lion said:

There's an update at the bottom of the OP.

Thank you for doing the right thing. 

[Brass]

DAMN YOU FRIED HIM ALIVE. What if he gets so upset with his life falling apart that he kills himself.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Brass

[Wrecker]

Wow. So you went ahead and fucked with two people's lives.

Now they get to go ahead and deal with a huge predicament, they're going to have to fight over assets and pour money into divorce bullshit, and who were you in whole ordeal?

You sure sound like a stand-up person to confide in, that is all kinds of fucked.

I honestly am blown away that you did that, let alone look for advice on a fucking furry forum over another person's relationship. It's nuts. Wow.

That blows my mind.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Wrecker

[Lisek]

12 minutes ago, Wrecker said:

Wow. So you went ahead and fucked with two people's lives.

Now they get to go ahead and deal with a huge predicament, they're going to have to fight over assets and pour money into divorce bullshit, and who were you in whole ordeal?

You sure sound like a stand-up person to confide in, that is all kinds of fucked.

I honestly am blown away that you did that, let alone look for advice on a fucking furry forum over another person's relationship. It's nuts. Wow.

That blows my mind.

So would it have been better to let this guy continuing exploiting someone in such a manner? It would have ended in divorce either way. 

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

13 minutes ago, Wrecker said:

Wow. So you went ahead and fucked with two people's lives.

Now they get to go ahead and deal with a huge predicament, they're going to have to fight over assets and pour money into divorce bullshit, and who were you in whole ordeal?

You sure sound like a stand-up person to confide in, that is all kinds of fucked.

I honestly am blown away that you did that, let alone look for advice on a fucking furry forum over another person's relationship. It's nuts. Wow.

That blows my mind.

So would you rather let this assclown take advantage of a girl and get away with it? You're fucking stupid.

[MuttButt]

Don't mind anybody in this thread who's giving you a hard time OP, you did the right thing. You had a responsibility to do right by your friend, and you really stepped up to the plate. It ain't easy putting yourself in that position.

If I was getting lied to, cheated on, and used, I'd want to know. Anybody who thinks otherwise has probably never felt what it's like to be on the receiving end of that bullshit.

[Wrecker]

11 minutes ago, Lisek said:

So would it have been better to let this guy continuing exploiting someone in such a manner? It would have ended in divorce either way. 

That's the mentioned couple's deal. Not the OP's in direct, and nobody else. The OP could have pushed the guy to make a decision, but that's the end of their deal. OP sure as fuck isn't a marriage counselor or a practitioner of any sort.

The fact remains, a person hands out information in confidence to another person over an issue that they could have found time on their own to handle in their own way, but the person they trusted went ahead and fucked everything.

I've been in relationships where I knew shit wasn't working out, and I asked friends for advice on what the fuck to do, and you know what? They were friends, they didn't go ahead and fucking stab me in the back like that, I found the time and the place to settle things on my own terms without getting fucked over by some asshole. I'm still friends with my exes, too. If somebody pretty well spat in my face and took my words and turned them against me, I'd be fucking furious.

10 minutes ago, Sidewalk Surfboard said:

So would you rather let this assclown take advantage of a girl and get away with it? You're fucking stupid.

I'd rather let the the 'assclown' sink his own ship.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Wrecker

[MuttButt]

10 minutes ago, Wrecker said:

I'd rather let the the 'assclown' sink his own ship.

I'd have a lot more sympathy for your argument in a different context, but in this case I really feel like OP had a responsibility to intervene for the sake of his friend. The girl in the relationship was his friend too, if somebody was treating your friend like that, wouldn't you want to help them? If it was some random girl he barely knew that might be a little different, sure. It's the cheating that really does it for me though. At that point he is putting her in physical danger and it's not okay. I understand the sentiment of wanting to be noble to your friends and keep their secrets, but there is a line and he definitely crossed it this time. Suppose some friend confessed to you that he committed some crime against another friend, stolen something irreplaceable from them or assaulted them or something. I don't think I'd be able to sleep at night if I let them get away with something like that. Besides, to me at least, anybody who has the capacity to use another human being like that wouldn't be any friend of mine.

Edited December 9, 2015 by MuttButt

[Wrecker]

Just now, MuttButt said:

I'd have a lot more sympathy for your argument in a different context, but in this case I really feel like OP had a responsibility to convene for the sake of his friend. The girl in the relationship was his friend too, if somebody was treating your friend like that, wouldn't you want to help them? If it was some random girl he barely knew that might be a little different, sure. It's the cheating that really does it for me though. At that point he is putting her in physical danger and it's not okay. I understand the sentiment of wanting to be noble to your friends and keep their secrets, but there is a line and he definitely crossed it this time. Suppose some friend confessed to you that he committed some crime against another friend, stolen something irreplaceable from them or assaulted them or something. I don't think I'd be able to sleep at night if I let them get away with something like that. Besides, to me at least, anybody who has the capacity to use another human being like that wouldn't be any friend of mine.

Marital issues are far beyond friendship.

You're not just dealing with a relationship, you're dealing with two people's entire assets and family. Joint bank accounts, loans, finances, credit, the list goes on...

Advice is one thing, but now there's lawyers, a judge, in-laws and a pile of other shit.

It's fucking ugly, trust me.

It'd have been pretty easy for the OP to say they weren't friends anymore. I really hope that they didn't stir up too much shit, and maybe everything will work out, but divorce is nothing like breaking up.

I stand by the fact it was a bad move.

[Misomie]

If I had a spouse and if he was cheating on me, I'd want to know. Cheating is super freaking low, one of the top forms of betrayal. The STD chance is also there and can screw my life over. I'd rather find out asap so I don't spend years in a WORTHLESS and VALULESS relationship. If my spouse were to utterly betray me like that, the relationship is dead. I don't believe it when cheaters say that they love who they cheated on. Why would they stab them in the back like that? Just, ug. It would have been better if the guy told her himself but she doesn't deserve to live with that when he comes clean thirty years down the road. 

 

It's sad that people use others like that.

[Red Lion]

He wasn't actually looking for help or advice from me, he just wanted reassurance that he wasn't a bad person. And as pointed out, the wife is my friend too and when it became apparent that he wasn't going to do anything on his own I took her side. Ultimately what he did was really shitty and I think it's better that their marriage end now instead of ten years or heck even one more year down the road.

Furthermore it's not even the issue of the cheating. He doesn't love her, he doesn't even like her, he married her because he thought she'd be too dumb to question him when he went out and cheated on her with men. Also what if he'd kept it to himself and then gotten her pregnant one day? Or as other people mentioned, given her an STD? Both parties were at some level of risk but ultimately I decided that the risk to her was bigger. I don't think she's going to tell anyone that he's gay. So his big secret is safe. But they are going to break up and I think that's for the best. I don't care if he isn't my friend anymore, this wasn't just some mistake on his behalf and what he did was emotionally and maybe physically harmful to one of my other friends, and the longer I think on it the more sure I am that I made the right choice. 

I wasn't sure about getting involved when it was brought up but honestly how could I talk to her from that point on knowing that I knew her husband was lying and cheating on her? Should I sit, smile in her face and pretend I don't know anything? doesn't that also make me a shitty friend? What if it came out years later and was even worse than it would be now? How could I not feel guilty knowing I could have saved her wasted years by just telling her the truth. 

Edited December 9, 2015 by Red Lion

[Troj]

Your gay friend sounds like a real asshole, and I worry that he's going to manipulate and mistreat future boyfriends and fuckbuddies like he's used and manipulated his wife.

I feel bad for his wife. She's being taken for a ride. You're right that she could contract an STD thanks to his cheating, and she has no idea that he basically has complete and total contempt for her.

For me, various factors typically determine whether one should inform Partner B of Partner A's secret or bad behavior, and it's not always our place to actually intervene. In this case, my gut's saying you did the right thing here, Red Lion, because this relationship is destined to hit the rocks, and the sooner both parties bail, the happier and healthier they'll probably be.

[MissFleece]

As someone who's mother was married to a cheater and contracted some STD's from him, you did the right thing.

she could have DIED, She could have been rendered infertile, she could have had a baby who instantly had an STD or other impairment caused by the STD, or the baby could have been killed as well. She could have to live the rest of her life with the evidence that her husband never loved her, slowly killing her. The devastation that would cause without knowing her husband was cheating would be immense, unless she got checked regularly (why would you, in a happy marriage?) 

Basically, for her sake, you did the right thing and I'm proud of how brave you are. 

[Red Lion]

15 minutes ago, Troj said:

Your gay friend sounds like a real asshole, and I worry that he's going to manipulate and mistreat future boyfriends and fuckbuddies like he's used and manipulated his wife.

I feel bad for his wife. She's being taken for a ride. You're right that she could contract an STD thanks to his cheating, and she has no idea that he basically has complete and total contempt for her.

For me, various factors typically determine whether one should inform Partner B of Partner A's secret or bad behavior, and it's not always our place to actually intervene. In this case, my gut's saying you did the right thing here, Red Lion, because this relationship is destined to hit the rocks, and the sooner both parties bail, the happier and healthier they'll probably be.

I don't think there was any way for me to do anything and not betray someone in this situation. Keeping quiet would have been a betrayal to her and telling her was a betrayal to him but I don't really feel as bad about him taking into account his role in the situation. When she and I talked it over she said she was going to deal with this privately and that she wasn't going to out him to his friends and family, and I trust her to have been honest with me. Which was my only real concern for his well-being. 

And just knowing how he can be I don't doubt he's going to use his boyfriends at some point, I don't think he's someone who can be trusted. Even knowing how hard it is to try and maintain a secret about yourself I couldn't find a way to excuse what he did.

Just now, MissFleece said:

As someone who's mother was married to a cheater and contracted some STD's from him, you did the right thing.

she could have DIED, She could have been rendered infertile, she could have had a baby who instantly had an STD or other impairment caused by the STD, or the baby could have been killed as well. She could have to live the rest of her life with the evidence that her husband never loved her, slowly killing her. The devastation that would cause without knowing her husband was cheating would be immense, unless she got checked regularly (why would you, in a happy marriage?) 

Basically, for her sake, you did the right thing and I'm proud of how brave you are. 

Thank you for that. I didn't think of the STD factor at first but now that people have brought it up I'll probably advise her to get tested. 

I still don't really understand why he confessed to me knowing that I was her friend too. I would also have thought that he'd know that if he confessed to doing something I felt was morally wrong that I'd turn him in or try to make him stop.  I guess he and I didn't know each other nearly as well as we thought. Not that we were that close mind you. But his wife helped me out a few times, gave me some of her old books for my college classes and gave me rides to campus when my car was in the shop. She's way to nice a person to be stuck with someone who doesn't care about her.

[Kinare]

You definitely did the right thing, no doubt about it. I hope if I'm ever in that sort of situation that I have a friend who is willing to tell me about it, not just sit back and wait for me to find out or him to tell me, because the longer it takes the more it will hurt. Money and legal shit is the least of my worries there, personally. Recovering emotionally from that sort of betrayal... yikes.

As for him telling you knowing you'd probably tell her, it's quite possible he wanted to get caught, maybe subconsciously. You giving him the ultimatum then him refusing and letting you tell her for him honestly just solidifies that because it's easier for him that way. It's quite possible he was getting tired of faking and wanted it to be done, but he simply didn't have the balls to tell her himself.

[Wrecker]

I hope everything works out for your friend(s).