Community Mood Thread: Take Two

[fennecbyte]

The last thread, despite devolving into shitflinging and throwing blame at the other party, actually managed to make some pretty good suggestions. Let's try that again, shall we?
I'll list all of the main points brought up in the last one that I can remember. If I've missed anything or I got something wrong, do feel free to scream at me so I can edit it. I'll also edit any extra suggestions into the OP, so anyone who doesn't want to read the entire thread can quickly get the gist of it.
Done

• All of the announcements were posted by the staff member who drafted them. The suggestion is to make other staff members post the announcements, even if they didn't write them. I believe staff is now doing this.
• There wasn't an FAQ thread for newcomers. There now is.
• The rules and the new member threads weren't easy enough for newcomers to find. The rules have their own tab now and there's a featured threads sidebar.

Ongoing

• I believe staff is currently discussing community contests. Correct me if I'm wrong.
• As Carenath is inactive, it might be a good idea if he gives some of the admins more permissions.
• Ads
  • Should we have them at all?
    • This forum doesn't really offer anything new to grab the attention of people, so ads might be a waste of money.
  • Who will pay for the ad space?
    • @DrGravitas is offering to contribute money if the ads are community-contributed.
    • @GarthTheWereWolf is willing to contribute money if the community is interested in having ads.
  • Who will design them?
    • Maybe the community could have a contest?
  • Where could we advertise?
    • FA, SoFurry and Inkbunny are a possibility.
    • Weasyl doesn't do community ads.
    • FA might not want to take our ads due to our history with them, but chances are that they're going to want the money and take our ads anyway.
    • It might be best if we don't target only one site.
  • Should this be a one-time thing or should we make them renewing?
• Staff have plans to change some forum sections around and remove/merge inactive ones. They haven't fully discussed it yet, as they're focusing on the community contests and the FAQ.
• Staff
  • If the staff shows more team effort, the community might pick it up and change with them.
  • Staff need to be more involved in any change that's happening and whatever future course we decide.
  • Staff look more influential to new members, so they should try to lead by example.
  • The forum lacks leadership.
  • The new staff members' influence isn't very visible to the community.
  • Staff should work better to separate their opinions from their moderation.
    • The general user gets turned off when a moderator both posts their opinion and moderates in the same thread.
    • Staff members should decide whether to post their opinions in a thread or to moderate it.
    • It might be best to hand a mod post over to another moderator when it's in a thread with a strongly-opinionated discussion.
    • Users may equate a warning with not being able to argue in the thread anymore.
    • Staff should consider letting another staff member review their posts before posting them, from time to time.
    • Staff are still users of the forums, so the above suggestion is an unfair restriction on them, as they make sure threads stay clean and the rules aren't broken.
    • @Vae makes clear distinctions between speaking as a mod and speaking as a person. Maybe the rest of the team should consider doing this?
    • There might not always be enough moderators online for this to happen, so whoever is online will have to do the moderation regardless.
    • Mods have their own opinions, so disagreements are bound to happen and it's completely normal.
• Users
  • Users should learn to separate staff opinions from moderator actions.
  • The community should cut back on the herd mentality.
  • Users with higher forum stats will seem more popular and influential to new members, so they should try to lead by example.
  • Our current mentality is ingrained and part of the forum's culture, so that issue is too large to try to tackle now. We should try to focus on ideas that the entire forum can get behind.
  • Introductions/New members
    • It's better to leave the thread alone than to antagonize a new user for doing "Furry" things in their introduction.
    • Not all new members will be aware of our collective dynamic.
    • New members should be politely told to stop when they use RP outside of the designated sections.
    • We should try to steer any debates about how the forum is run away from the introduction threads.
    • Posts with RP should be left outside of any serious discussions, but any use of RP in them shouldn't lead to the user getting harsh responses from everyone else.
    • RP outside of the RP section is technically against the rules.
• Forum identity
  • Our identity is basically "old FAF, but not."
  • Ideally, we are a forum with furries.
  • What do we want to advertise on our banner ads?
    • Something that conveys general creativity?
    • We could say that this is a sardonic community that mostly houses furry types, but a lot of people disagree with that mindset.
    • We could use softer adjectives to stop the forum from sounding like a softer version of /b/, /pol/, et cetera.
    • "It's a forum about nothing."

Not happening

• No member of staff will be resigning because you suggested it. Discussing this is pointless.

Please be constructive. I'll report your post if you're trying to bring back the shitflinging from the old thread.

[[null]]

Haha, you're learning.

Be the change you want to see. :3

[Tsuujou]

The FAQ and new users thread placement is a start to cleaner structure. Good.
Are the mods making further discussion about site consolidation? Like which sections are going to be moved/merged/removed and such? That was a big point discussed for a couple of pages.

[willow]

35 minutes ago, Tsuujou said:

The FAQ and new users thread placement is a start to cleaner structure. Good.
Are the mods making further discussion about site consolidation? Like which sections are going to be moved/merged/removed and such? That was a big point discussed for a couple of pages.

We haven't, but this is partially because we've been putting together the FAQ and trying to flesh out details on the community showcase thing 

 

 

[DrGravitas]

I will reiterate my support for advertising.

If we developed a community contest (slogans only or full image) around it, I would be willing to give financial support. We could also do multiple sets, some community-driven and some sourced entirely from mod-driven artists, and I would be willing to chip in some funds for the community-driven side of things. I still support the idea of advertising even without the community-involvement activities, but would not be interested in supporting it financially then.

Personally, I believe SoFurry would make a good advertising target, but also believe we should avoid targeting only one site. My initial feeling is that we should avoid advertising on Fur Affinity, considering our history and their recent policy, but I am open to reconsideration. While taking suggestions is a good idea, I believe that the ultimate decision of where to advertise should be left to the site owner, and (if applicable) ad-financers.

The specifics on how that decision making would be made, terms of financing (how long it's for, possibility of renewal, amounts, what-have-you), and any other conditions/processes would all be potential sticking points that would need to be worked out. These would undoubtedly take a lot of time.

[fennecbyte]

4 hours ago, [null] said:

Haha, you're learning.

Be the change you want to see. :3

Thank you, furriend. :3

49 minutes ago, DrGravitas said:

<text>

I edited your main points into the OP. Thanks for your input. Do tell if I've missed anything.

[GarthTheWereWolf]

I am also willing to kick in for ads if the community desires them. Don't matter to me much where specifically its advertised at; Sofurry, FurAffinity, w/e. Just so long as there is actual community interest in having them.

[FlynnCoyote]

Before you worry at all about ads, shouldn't we cement what the forum's actual identity is?

I don't think "Old FAF but not really FAF anymore but sort of still is some parts" is gonna look good or even fit on a banner ad.

Something that conveys general creativity would probably be the go if I was to suggest something.

12 hours ago, DrGravitas said:

we should avoid advertising on Fur Affinity, considering our history and their recent policy

What policy is this?

[Zeke]

If you want to see the site flourish, NOT advertising on FA is a bad idea. 

I don't think they would care if we chose to or not since more ad revenue is a good thing for them. 

[Vae]

Our identity is still basically just "oldFAF, but not."
We even covered this in the New User Guide thread.

We could just state that the forum is a sardonic community that mostly houses furry types, but that also goes against the moral ideology that some people have expressed wanting out of this place.
But that's basically what we are. Without that, we don't really offer anything new or different to the table, at least from my perspective. Which is bad for advertising.
If you don't offer anything new to grab attention, you're basically throwing money into the void.

[QT Melon]

One thing I'd like to touch on, in terms of mood in the community is a bit moderator side and some user behavior.

I know the staff is small and participation may vary but I do think one policy you might want to take on is working better to separate opinion posts and moderator posts. I think one of the reasons the community or people get a bad impression here is when you have a moderator in the thread doing both moderating and posting their opinion, it can turn off the general user. Granted there are times when few moderators are actually on, but I believe you may want to work on deciding if you want to post your opinion; on community related issues or issues with user behavior vs. if you want to moderate the thread flow.

That means though, you'll have to rely on each other as staff more. It means also trusting each other to help instead of shouldering a more responsibility. That means, if you have to "Mod post" preface something in the same thread you're having a strongly opinionated discussion, it would be best to hand over the "Mod post" to another moderator.

(Imagine a scenario, where you're in a discussion with a supervisor, the supervisor is pretty candid and you have a difference of opinion. Then in the middle of said discussion, he brings out a Klaxon with "WARNING use of X is against our policy" and then goes back to the discussion....kind of off putting isn't it? You don't feel you can have a discussion really honestly if you're being intimidated by the same person)

The reason, is that just plain psychology people are going to feel antagonized and feel too much power is given to one person. That's why I'm simply asking that the mods work together on this and shoulder more responsibility evenly. Also it was stated in another post that got wiped, but as a moderator, it's not necessarily a bad idea when you do want to post your opinion on things to possibly from time to time let another moderator review your statements before instantly posting them.

 

Having said that, it's not going to resolve all problems and give all users a new mindset. Users do need to recognize and separate moderator opinions with moderator actions as well. It's easy to get caught up in a debate. Users also need not dogpile everything as well. I know herder mentality is hard to avoid, but if you see someone "beating up" on another user sometimes it may be better to step back before getting your kicks in. This is easier said than done, but thought I'd at least mention it because it can happen.

 

In terms of new users, I believe I stated before that the intro forum should be a hands off approach in greeting users, if they are doing "Furry" things keep in mind most of these grievances you have can be put aside. Trust me, you're not gonna die if someone *tail wags* in their intro forum. If  users are using RP speak in other parts of the forum, and it's disrupting conversational flow be polite about it.  Remind them while it's "Furry open" the forum isn't furry centric and just wanting to engage in conversation outside the fandom doesn't warrant them "playing in character". Also if someone is being wary of the forum in their own intro thread, don't encourage a debate with them. Tell them it's probably best to discuss in another post, and steer the conversation away from debating how the forum should run/community flow in the intro threads.

Sorry if my thoughts are somewhat disjointed, as I stated in another thread bit tired, but I didn't want to come off as not caring. I just mean I'm actually feeling exhausted and didn't want to overexert myself.

 

 

 

 

 

[Zeke]

25 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

In terms of new users, I believe I stated before that the intro forum should be a hands off approach in greeting users, if they are doing "Furry" things keep in mind most of these grievances you have can be put aside. Trust me, you're not gonna die if someone *tail wags* in their intro forum. If  users are using RP speak in other parts of the forum, and it's disrupting conversational flow be polite about it.  Remind them while it's "Furry open" the forum isn't furry centric and just wanting to engage in conversation outside the fandom doesn't warrant them "playing in character". Also if someone is being wary of the forum in their own intro thread, don't encourage a d debate with them. Tell them it's probably best to discuss in another post, and steer the conversation away from debating how the forum should run/community flow in the intro threads.

If a new user goes *Sniffs everyone and wags tail* in their welcoming post, it's annoying but its not something to get worked up over. However, I think there should be a time and place for such posts, but people shouldn't pile drive a person over "*Tilts head* I don't know what you mean since wolves aren't really involved in human politics" or *licks your face*. Yet, I feel that such posts should be left out of serious topics that garner serious replies. 

 

 

[Vae]

1 hour ago, QT Melon said:

That means, if you have to "Mod post" preface something in the same thread you're having a strongly opinionated discussion, it would be best to hand over the "Mod post" to another moderator.

This is, unfortunately, a restriction of who's actually on at any given time. If there aren't other staff on to throw a thread warning into place, you gotta go with who's there, and sometimes, that's just yourself.

1 hour ago, QT Melon said:

(Imagine a scenario, where you're in a discussion with a supervisor, the supervisor is pretty candid and you have a difference of opinion. Then in the middle of said discussion, he brings out a Klaxon with "WARNING use of X is against our policy" and then goes back to the discussion....kind of off putting isn't it? You don't feel you can have a discussion really honestly if you're being intimidated by the same person)

I would say it's more akin to being chastised in the middle of conversation that something you're doing is against company policy.
I know with my tags in particular, they're there for visibility purposes and purposes of distinguishing, but that's not really a direct translation in real life with sirens and lights.
You don't have to shout over people in (normal) discussion in real life, because they're going to hear what you said. Here? Not so much.

But if they are breaking policy, I fully expect any halfway competent supervisor to mention it. Whether it breaks up conversation or not.

1 hour ago, QT Melon said:

Also it was stated in another post that got wiped, but as a moderator, it's not necessarily a bad idea when you do want to post your opinion on things to possibly from time to time let another moderator review your statements before instantly posting them.

No one else needs their opinions "evaluated" (except people under post mod, but that's for good reason), and staff shouldn't have to deal with that either. It's an unfair restriction just because we shoulder more responsibility in making sure threads stay clean and site rules aren't broken.

At the end of the day, we're users too. And as Lemon pointed out before she left, I at least make unmistakable divisions between speaking as a mod and speaking as a person.

Especially for this size of a community. We're not selling a brand, or a product. We shouldn't be held to the standards of paid employment and serving as the face of some company, because no one is exchanging money or getting any other benefit than casual socializing from this place. We're not doing charity work for that matter, either.
We're people who are cleaning the site up and occasionally participating in it.

If a mod is breaking a rule, report them.
If they're not, well, you're gonna encounter people whose opinion you don't agree with. Here, and in real life. That's just the risk and the nature of choosing to step into a large pool of people and start socializing.

1 hour ago, QT Melon said:

Trust me, you're not gonna die if someone *tail wags* in their intro forum. If  users are using RP speak in other parts of the forum, and it's disrupting conversational flow be polite about it.

I suppose it depends on the severity of it, although RP is technically against the rules outside of the RP section.

[Zeke]

As far as mindset, I think we can keep it simple without adding boorish adjectives that may make the forum less like an actual social site and more akin to a soft version of /b/, /pol/, or wherever the crass kids hang out.

 

Identity wise, we are a forum with furries. 

[FlynnCoyote]

2 hours ago, QT Melon said:

The reason, is that just plain psychology people are going to feel antagonized and feel too much power is given to one person. That's why I'm simply asking that the mods work together on this and shoulder more responsibility evenly.

This isn't practical with so few of them around. I did mention in the other thread that mods should at least think twice before posting and I will say that should count double for threads that they've issued warnings or other mod actions in, simply because a lot of users are going to equate that sort of thing with "I can't argue anymore."

I know plenty of us don't give a shit anyway, but if we do want to attract new users we need to realize that not all of them will be aware of our collective dynamic here.

[QT Melon]

7 minutes ago, FlynnCoyote said:

This isn't practical with so few of them around. I did mention in the other thread that mods should at least think twice before posting and I will say that should count double for threads that they've issued warnings or other mod actions in, simply because a lot of users are going to equate that sort of thing with "I can't argue anymore."

I know plenty of us don't give a shit anyway, but if we do want to attract new users we need to realize that not all of them will be aware of our collective dynamic here.

I am completely aware that they don't have that many around. I have stated that, but it is still a problem that they need to work on. Simply just shrugging it off doesn't help matters. The whole point is that going the way it is, leads to the problems that keep cycling themselves. There isn't a perfect solution, but if they don't even want to recognize and acknowledge that there is a bit of contention where there's too much "double dipping" in threads then honestly it's really going to fizzle any progress towards keeping the forums active.

I have made statements prior that I don't expect the forums to explode in popularity as social media keeps migrating to other platforms

But if there is at least an attempt at good faith in trying to curb, or change a bit of how things are run where it looks more like a team effort then I believe the userbase picks up on it and will also change with them.

[Endless/Nameless]

theres your ad banner we're done here. 

[FlynnCoyote]

10 hours ago, QT Melon said:

But if there is at least an attempt at good faith in trying to curb, or change a bit of how things are run where it looks more like a team effort then I believe the userbase picks up on it and will also change with them.

This I agree with. But we've seen how they respond to suggestions that require change from them haven't we?

Actually, to add to this point I would love to see the new mods be this example. If only to show that it can be done. I don't entirely blame the staff for how things are being run, the feel of the community didn't really change between FAF and here so it's only natural that old habits would resurface. And I know that some attempts to accommodate change are being made but it is still apparent that more needs to change if the site is ever going to have a real chance at growth. Unless we can provide a reason for new users to stay, then they won't. With no directly supporting franchise the only thing we have to offer is a friendly or at least tolerable community.

And we cannot do that if there are members who perpetuate the kinds of things that drove people from FAF and have continued to drive people from here. In the same way that people with higher forum stats will seem more popular and influential to newly registered users, so too will the staff, if anything more so than anyone. So like it or not, the staff really need to lead by example here.

[Tsuujou]

Reads thread...

On 6/6/2017 at 10:18 AM, fennecbyte said:

I'll report your post if you're trying to bring back the shitflinging from the old thread.

[fennecbyte]

40 minutes ago, FlynnCoyote said:

 But we've seen how they respond to suggestions that require change from them haven't we?

Flynn, this is exactly the sort of shit that turned the old thread into a mess.

Knock it off. Be constructive.

[FlynnCoyote]

1 minute ago, fennecbyte said:

Flynn, this is exactly the sort of shit that turned the old thread into a mess.

Knock it off. Be constructive.

You asked that we not suggest the mods quit. And I'm not. I'm suggesting that like all of us, they need to be willing to change.

[fennecbyte]

3 minutes ago, FlynnCoyote said:

You asked that we not suggest the mods quit. And I'm not. I'm suggesting that like all of us, they need to be willing to change.

I asked you to be constructive and not finger-point. You did exactly what I asked you not to do.

Make a suggestion. Argue it if you want. Don't shit on the mods.

[FlynnCoyote]

22 minutes ago, fennecbyte said:

Make a suggestion. Argue it if you want. Don't shit on the mods.

You want me to be constructive, yet you want me to ignore a key issue that affects the whole site, ie: the people running it?

I'm sorry, but if I see issues that can be improved, I see no point in glossing over them to avoid awkward conversation or hurt feelings. Whatever fixes we decide on making for the site, whatever changes need to happen and whatever we decide the future course should be, they need to be involved. They need to be willing to take the lead. They need to care. And I don't see it. We need some kind of acknowledgement on that front. That's just how it is going to be, otherwise we're on a ship going in circles on the water. Eventually, it'll sink.

[fennecbyte]

1 minute ago, FlynnCoyote said:

You want me to be constructive, yet you want me to ignore a key issue that affects the whole site, ie: the people running it?

You missed the point. There's nothing wrong with asking the staff to change. The problem is that you're doing it in a way that paints them as lazy selfish assholes.

I'd say more but I'm currently on mobile.

[[null]]

Oh dear, oh dear oh dear.

I'm going to attempt to be as diplomatic as possible and say that anything brought up in this thread should be considered from a purely intellectual pov and not influenced by emotion or past/present bias.

The lazy selfish assholes statement was unwarranted, Flynn wasn't saying that. I can understand why Flynn is saying what he is because i've noticed it myself, it's a question of mentality. People are free (and maybe even encouraged) to dislike it but voicing that belief in this thread will accomplish nothing. That mentality is ingrained and part of the forum's culture, shame as that may be. It's an issue that's too large to try and tackle now so save it for another time and focus on ideas that the entire forum can get behind.

Sorry to say it Flynn, gotta walk before you can run.

[Silo]

2 minutes ago, [null] said:

 People are free (and maybe even encouraged) to dislike it but voicing that belief in this thread will accomplish nothing. That mentality is ingrained and part of the forum's culture, shame as that may be. It's an issue that's too large to try and tackle now so save it for another time and focus on ideas that the entire forum can get behind.

Flynn's probably right about this one. There's been enough time to fix these issues and it's either the mods couldn't make it happen or the community simply wasn't ready for the change. Since most of the kinks have been straighten out (or just removed), this is probably the best time to focus on more progressive things. Though, it may just end up being a repetition of history.

Unrelated:What we don't need is a repeat of old FAF, and I don't think we should even associate with that place. You needed 2 IBAs and a Flak Jacket to post there.

[FlynnCoyote]

2 hours ago, fennecbyte said:

The problem is that you're doing it in a way that paints them as lazy selfish assholes.

You're putting words in my mouth. What you infer is no doubt influenced by your opinion of me, so all I can say here is try to step back and look at what I'm saying at face value.

This place lacks real leadership. We have SOTU threads for the introduction and discussion of community input ideas, but the only real idea of note that we've seen implemented is the community election of moderators, which was all but demanded as I recall. And sorry to say this, but I don't see their influence around at all. We might as well not have bothered for all it shows. And that's what I'm saying. We've done this dance over and over, and nothing has come of it but the ability to point out our many problems and shortcomings as a site and community.

So take away what you will. But it seems bleedingly obvious to me that until the staff can actually step up and form a coherent team capable of making solid decisions, it is all but pointless to try making any other changes. This is the elephant. And it is right there in front of you. At the very least, it needs to be acknowledged and efforts made to fix it. What we are seeing is the issue being continually ignored by staff and users like you trying to pretend is isn't a real hindrance to site direction and growth. This is why we're not going anywhere.

1 hour ago, [null] said:

Sorry to say it Flynn, gotta walk before you can run.

We've been walking for over a year now, mate. Time to pick a direction.

[[null]]

59 minutes ago, FlynnCoyote said:

We've been walking for over a year now, mate. Time to pick a direction.

Now i like you, and it's rather annoying that more people don't listen to you or when they do just twist your words. The mod issue, in the long run i can see it as a positive if two current staff members were removed and i believe i know who should replace one of them, but if i bring that up it's just going to cause drama because people evidently aren't ready to consider that. I'd push for it myself but considering the last thread the community really doesn't need to focus on an issue that'll just cause a split between members and won't accomplish anything else right now. Enough people don't want to consider this that it'll just cause problems.

You haven't been walking, you've been standing still with your fingers in your ears. It's why certain users have so much animosity under the surface. You're right, but it's better to focus on positive ideas that the entire community can get behind right now. The potential ad campaign and ideas that'll likely cause people to join the site in the first place and end up staying. New members, new mentality, new approach to dealing with old issues.

We can't do anything with the mods other than see them as a necessary evil that we need to find some common ground and work with atm, that's the reality of it.

[fennecbyte]

Now that I'm back at a computer where I can actually type properly, I've added the ideas of all the posts until now into the OP. I tried to be as impartial as I could be. If you see anything that I've missed or if you want any modifications to the bullet points, do say so.

3 hours ago, [null] said:

The lazy selfish assholes statement was unwarranted, Flynn wasn't saying that.

Yes, it wasn't. I'm sorry for overexaggerating and putting words that he didn't say into his mouth. This is entirely my fault.
My excuse, for whatever it's worth, is that I wanted to stop the thread from going in the direction it was going in, but I was away from my computer. My phone wasn't the best thing to use for long-winded thoughts. Condensing everything into 2-4 easy-to-type sentences made it come off wrong.

However, what I did say does have some merit. He's being overly hostile to the moderators, which is not constructive. There's a difference between politely recommending that someone should do something and just throwing hostility at them with the expectation that they're going to listen and consider your opinion.

2 hours ago, FlynnCoyote said:

<text>

Arguing with you is like arguing with a solid brick wall. I can't do anything more than warn you, which I have already done (and even clarified my point several times), so I'm just going to drop out of this argument until staff decides what should be done.

[willow]

Well to be fair, we're not exactly here to be influential and never have been. The overall mood and tone of the forum has generally been carried by the users, we just make sure rules don't get broken. Though honestly it seemed pretty pointless to try seeing as how any time we did try to enforce something or otherwise influence the site, it always seemed like a certain group of people were ready to oppose it because it wasn't how they wanted things 

As for the other part of that discussion, people keep bringing up that the mods need to change, but I've yet to actually see any sort of concrete suggestion as to how. Saying we need to care more or be more involved are pretty nice as a vague starting point, but they're not very useful for actually making some sort of impact

I'd comment on more of the bullet points but I'm on mobile and it's hard to break them down into sections 

Edited June 8, 2017 by willow

[QT Melon]

12 minutes ago, willow said:

As for the other part of that discussion, people keep bringing up that the mods need to change, but I've yet to actually see any sort of concrete suggestion as to how. Saying we need to care more or be more involved are pretty nice as a vague starting point, but they're not very useful for actually making some sort of impact

 

Except, I most certainly did give examples of changing behavior. Either it's getting ignored, or blown off. Nor did I say my suggestions were perfect, but they were certainly concrete.

1. You need less "double dipping" in threads If a moderator wants to give opinions that come off controversial or engage in debates, the mod hat has to come off and it becomes another moderator's responsibility to monitor that post. This is set back because people are saying the staff is too small or too unavailable for trading responsibilities....then what's the point of having staff? I was under the impression it was coverage?

2. If you're going to continue "double dipping" then it isn't exactly unwise to have another moderator at least look at what you're going to say so you can save yourself the headaches of being misunderstood and causing more fighting. You can chuff it off with a "You're not my mom" excuse but that's a problem in itself. I'm not asking them to monitor every single statement in the forum every moderator makes...but if you think you're above even criticism in your delivery of posts it sets in an arrogant tone that somehow you're above everyone else.

It's known being a moderator is not an easy job, It's generally a thankless job and tiring one. However, when one person takes on more of the role than the rest of the staff, it becomes a problem. The lines get blurred a bit too much and things come off lopsided. So I'm simply asking that some share the responsibility. Otherwise there is honestly no point in having other moderators if someone feels he/she should take on the most  of it.

[[null]]

2 hours ago, fennecbyte said:

Yes, it wasn't. I'm sorry for overexaggerating and putting words that he didn't say into his mouth. This is entirely my fault.
My excuse, for whatever it's worth, is that I wanted to stop the thread from going in the direction it was going in...

No worries, just try to refrain from doing it again. Such exaggeration will only contribute to the problem you're trying to avoid, and for what it's worth i'm trying to do the same thing.

32 minutes ago, willow said:

Well to be fair, we're not exactly here to be influential and never have been. The overall mood and tone of the forum has generally been carried by the users, we just make sure rules don't get broken. Though honestly it seemed pretty pointless to try seeing as how any time we did try to enforce something or otherwise influence the site, it always seemed like a certain group of people were ready to oppose it because it wasn't how they wanted things 

As for the other part of that discussion, people keep bringing up that the mods need to change, but I've yet to actually see any sort of concrete suggestion as to how. Saying we need to care more or be more involved are pretty nice as a vague starting point, but they're not very useful for actually making some sort of impact

I'd comment on more of the bullet points but I'm on mobile and it's hard to break them down into sections 

I could bring up points and an idea if you'd like, as long as people here won't take it the wrong way and run with it.

It verges on a not gonna happen suggestion but it may well be a valid one depending on certain factors.

[fennecbyte]

46 minutes ago, [null] said:

It verges on a not gonna happen suggestion

[willow]

55 minutes ago, QT Melon said:

Except, I most certainly did give examples of changing behavior. Either it's getting ignored, or blown off. Nor did I say my suggestions were perfect, but they were certainly concrete.

I was mostly just referring to this thread and a different one since it looks like your suggestions have already been noted 

 

Edited June 8, 2017 by willow

[[null]]

On 6/8/2017 at 9:38 AM, fennecbyte said:

But waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait.

One question, does she even want to be a mod anymore? She's stated in the past that she might just not log in again and in the last thread outright stated that she doesn't care if the forum dies. Now considering what certain users are suggesting regarding mods being proactive it might be best to take one on that will lead by example. So if she doesn't actually want to be around anymore...you see where i'm going with this?

[fennecbyte]

2 minutes ago, [null] said:

But waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait.

[[null]]

7 minutes ago, fennecbyte said:

Cereal? It may actually be something worth discussing dude.

[fennecbyte]

5 minutes ago, [null] said:

Cereal? It may actually be something worth discussing dude.

I'm being silly with the blobs here, but I'm pretty sure the mods are going to make a thread dedicated to the open position when they need more people on the team.

I'd say wait for staff to pitch in.

[ArielMT]

On 6/8/2017 at 10:17 AM, [null] said:

But waitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwaitwait.

One question, does she even want to be a mod anymore? She's stated in the past that she might just not log in again and in the last thread outright stated that she doesn't care if the forum dies. Now considering what certain users are suggesting regarding mods being proactive it might be best to take one on that will lead by example. So if she doesn't actually want to be around anymore...you see where i'm going with this?

She made the decision on her own to resign and leave our community in order to focus on real life personal business, and she has followed through on it so completely that she left our mod chat.

The kind of granular access she had to the admin panel (the theming section, specifically) requires permissions that only @Carenath has.  That access, along with her moderator status, will be was revoked, but it's something I can't do myself.

[fennecbyte]

This was a joke, but it could probably work as an ad.

[ArielMT]

4 minutes ago, fennecbyte said:

This was a joke, but it could probably work as an ad.

Phoenfeld.

[Zeke]

2 hours ago, QT Melon said:

1. You need less "double dipping" in threads If a moderator wants to give opinions that come off controversial or engage in debates, the mod hat has to come off and it becomes another moderator's responsibility to monitor that post. This is set back because people are saying the staff is too small or too unavailable for trading responsibilities....then what's the point of having staff? I was under the impression it was coverage?

I agree with this one to a degree. However, mods are also users and unless we write up that mods aren't allowed to engage in discussions, we can't stop people from putting in their two cents especially if there's only one mod on at 4 AM and has to immediately take action.

[Vae]

As far as I've observed, Rev and Umbra aren't exactly abrasive at all towards new members, so I don't understand this need to fill the Walmart Greeter quota and leading through "fresh new ideas."

We've met that.
They already do it.
And they're the most active ones right now in site intro threads.

[QT Melon]

7 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I agree with this one to a degree. However, mods are also users and unless we write up that mods aren't allowed to engage in discussions, we can't stop people from putting in their two cents especially if there's only one mod on at 4 AM and has to immediately take action.

Yes, it's not perfect, but there does need to be less "double dipping" as much as possible. The problem is I'm noticing it more during active hours than non active ones.

[DrGravitas]

On 06/07/2017 at 3:06 AM, FlynnCoyote said:

What policy is this?

You know, I can't seem to figure that out myself either. I don't recall any problem I had with their policies and after reviewing them, I'm not sure what it could have been. I was interrupted by a discussion with a coworker while I was typing things out, so it was probably a word choice I changed and forgot to take out.

On 06/07/2017 at 10:39 AM, Zeke said:

If you want to see the site flourish, NOT advertising on FA is a bad idea. 

I don't think they would care if we chose to or not since more ad revenue is a good thing for them. 

I agree that FA has a very wide reach that could draw in more people. However, I felt it was important to give an opportunity to those who might be against involving FA, a chance to show support against the idea. If there's no significant opposition to advertising with FA, I would be open to that as well.

 

If we have multiple financial supports, one approach could be to split up support by site. Alternatively, a pooled fund could be established. But, again, I am only interested in contributing to those ads stemming from a community event. We'd have to work out how that would work (acceptance criteria, judges, what exactly people would be developing, period of submission, etc.) But I'm open to suggestions on those.

[Zeke]

38 minutes ago, Vae said:

As far as I've observed, Rev and Umbra aren't exactly abrasive at all towards new members, so I don't understand this need to fill the Walmart Greeter quota and leading through "fresh new ideas."

We've met that.
They already do it.
And they're the most active ones right now in site intro threads.

I vote Umbra and Rev as the new Joo Dee.

 

[Pleasure]

Perhaps consider giving the forum a permanent identity. I'm not sure what you would advertise without one.

[Vae]

42 minutes ago, Zeke said:

I vote Umbra and Rev as the new Joo Dee.

As long as Rev uses furpuns the entire time. :v

Would that just make me Azula then? Everything makes sense now.

[Tsuujou]

2 hours ago, Vae said:

As far as I've observed, Rev and Umbra aren't exactly abrasive at all towards new members  anybody.

fixed

[Zeke]

1 hour ago, Vae said:

As long as Rev uses furpuns the entire time. :v

Would that just make me Azula then? Everything makes sense now.

They have to use a combination of Earth Nation and fur puns. Legit requirement, yo.