Limiting Likes?

[Charrio]

I was going to like a friends post but I got a message saying we can only Like 10 things a day.

Is that going to be fixed or something you earn with more forum XP?

[PheagleAdler]

I don't know, some people can get like-crazy. It's good that there's a limit, we don't want this to be facebook, do we?

[Signy]

It sounds like it's something that's going to be looked at. I think 30-50 a day would be reasonable. I'm sure a reputation system matters to some people, and has the potential to be abused, but it's just a flavor thing and isn't really that important. 

Now, if a negative rep system was added... Well that would just be fun.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Signy

[PheagleAdler]

It sounds like it's something that's going to be looked at. I think 30-50 a day would be reasonable. I'm sure a reputation system matters to some people, and has the potential to be abused, but it's just a flavor thing and isn't really that important. 

Now, if a negative rep system was added... Well that would just be fun.

Long as we don't get to the point where it can essentially be spam

[Kalmor]

Long as we don't get to the point where it can essentially be spam

That wasn't really an issue with the unlimited "thises" on FAF.

[ArielMT]

I was speaking off the cuff there, but I will raise the argument in favor of it at my earliest opportunity. :3

The problem with raising the number of likes that can be given is that it seems to be part of the user reputation system, and as such it can be abused and gamed.  Still, for a forum as active as this one already is, I'm in favor of an increase.

[Dr. Doggo]

our like points should be experience points to some kind of on-site text RPG

[Charrio]

I can agree with a limit, as It does get silly after a while taking the impact of a like away being on everything.

Either way can be fine, just wasn't sure what the deal was when the note first came up.

[Kalmor]

I was speaking off the cuff there, but I will raise the argument in favor of it at my earliest opportunity. :3

The problem with raising the number of likes that can be given is that it seems to be part of the user reputation system, and as such it can be abused and gamed.  Still, for a forum as active as this one already is, I'm in favor of an increase.

Didn't FAF also track the thises? "thised x times in x posts" (or rather it was "thanked" since I was running with the European language option XD)

[ArielMT]

Didn't FAF also track the thises? "thised x times in x posts" (or rather it was "thanked" since I was running with the European language option XD)

Good point.  I never noticed until now.

[Caretaker]

The "Like" system is a reputation system, and you can enable negative-rep too, it isn't the same as a post-thanks hack but it is similar. For all your plugin, Skin and other mods, I would suggest you go searching on the IPS Marketplace.

"Likes" increased to 20/day

Edited September 25, 2015 by Carenath

[Dr. Doggo]

@Carenath If I may state my opinion:

I hope you don't enable negative-rep.

Why? It kills discussion. Sure it's a way to say you don't like a post, but... why? A +Rep or "Like" button is a way of saying "THIS" or "I AGREE" without shitting up the thread with posts otherwise completely devoid of content. -Rep or "Dislike" buttons are just ways to avoid discussion. If you dislike a post or disagree with it, instead of making the effort to actualy debate and chat about it, you can just anonymously Neg it and leave it at that.

It's counterproductive.

And I suppose you could argue that repeatedly negging people is a form of harassment.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Sir Gibby

[Summercat]

Counterpoint: A "Disagree / Agree / Helpful" system is enabled on the Paradox Interactive Forums, with no major issues or abuse.

[Hewge]

Plz no disagree neg jazz

If it existed, I would abuse it and disagree with anyone that agreed it would be a good idea to implement :v

[Grandpriest]

Having a limit to how many times you can "like" in a day is stupid.

[Dr. Doggo]

Counterpoint: A "Disagree / Agree / Helpful" system is enabled on the Paradox Interactive Forums, with no major issues or abuse.

I was also on a gaming forum with such a system

not a disagree/agree/helpful system, but a rep system

it was abused to hell and it was awful

debate basically died out because nobody bothered to challenge any viewpoints they disagreed with, at least a lot less did. People posted less out of fear of Red Rep. People made more shitty attempts to get Positive Rep by posting dank maymays instead of being helpful or useful or insightful. It's the same with crap sites like Reddit. Disagree with something? Unpopular view? Inconvenient truth? Just dogpile it with downvotes so it goes away and it doesn't need to be discussed. Want upvotes? Just make a mildly funny at best joke (that is probably rehashsed from some dumb youtube comment-tier meme) instead of using your brain.

The only place where such rating systems are fun are ones where the site is vastly shitposting and behaving like clowns without any room for debating about something. If there is to be such a rating system, this is better off as a shitposting site. If you want it to have intelligent debate, then a poz/neg system is usually bad.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Sir Gibby

[Grandpriest]

I was also on a gaming forum with such a system

not a disagree/agree/helpful system, but a rep system

it was abused to hell and it was awful

debate basically died out because nobody bothered to challenge any viewpoints they disagreed with, at least a lot less did. People posted less out of fear of Red Rep. People made more shitty attempts to get Positive Rep by posting dank maymays instead of being helpful or useful or insightful. It's the same with crap sites like Reddit. Disagree with something? Unpopular view? Inconvenient truth? Just dogpile it with downvotes so it goes away and it doesn't need to be discussed. Want upvotes? Just make a mildly funny at best joke (that is probably rehashsed from some dumb youtube comment-tier meme) instead of using your brain.

Ya, I sometimes use the League of Legends boards ... and it's awful.

They use an upvote/downvote system, and it's abused.  Verily.

Don't add it.

[Summercat]

I was also on a gaming forum with such a system

not a disagree/agree/helpful system, but a rep system

it was abused to hell and it was awful

debate basically died out because nobody bothered to challenge any viewpoints they disagreed with, at least a lot less did. People posted less out of fear of Red Rep. People made more shitty attempts to get Positive Rep by posting dank maymays instead of being helpful or useful or insightful. It's the same with crap sites like Reddit. Disagree with something? Unpopular view? Inconvenient truth? Just dogpile it with downvotes so it goes away and it doesn't need to be discussed. Want upvotes? Just make a mildly funny at best joke (that is probably rehashsed from some dumb youtube comment-tier meme) instead of using your brain.

Except that the rep system at PIF doesn't do anything like the Reddit upvotes/downvotes. It doesn't hide posts, it does'nt move threads. No filters are involved.

[Dr. Doggo]

Except that the rep system at PIF doesn't do anything like the Reddit upvotes/downvotes. It doesn't hide posts, it does'nt move threads. No filters are involved.

What about posting habits then?

Cos I've been on sites that had rep systems on-and-off, and they most definitely did change the way people would post. It also sucks when some limpdick anonymously negs everything you say because you rekt him hard one time and he can't be bothered to actually challenge you.

Upvoting and Downvoting is an alternative to posting. An upvote system is good because it stops "LE THIS :^D" posts. A downvote system is bad because it's a cowardly/lazy alternative to debate.

Edited September 26, 2015 by Sir Gibby

[Summercat]

What about posting habits then?

Cos I've been on sites that had rep systems on-and-off, and they most definitely did change the way people would post.

Haven't noticed anyone. Sometimes I wish it would - Paradox Interactive games sometimes get nationalists that get pissed that every single detail in their preferred region isn't 100% right - according to them. They tend to get... hostile, if argued against. 

And then there's the various "PARADOX SUCK BALLS" threads where I get tons of "Disagree" for siding with Paradox. 

[Sidhenearlahi]

I was also on a gaming forum with such a system

not a disagree/agree/helpful system, but a rep system

it was abused to hell and it was awful

debate basically died out because nobody bothered to challenge any viewpoints they disagreed with, at least a lot less did. People posted less out of fear of Red Rep. People made more shitty attempts to get Positive Rep by posting dank maymays instead of being helpful or useful or insightful. It's the same with crap sites like Reddit. Disagree with something? Unpopular view? Inconvenient truth? Just dogpile it with downvotes so it goes away and it doesn't need to be discussed. Want upvotes? Just make a mildly funny at best joke (that is probably rehashsed from some dumb youtube comment-tier meme) instead of using your brain.

Oh man, Reddit. I only recently started using it, and pretty much only to browse /r/furry, and one thing that was made abundantly clear is just how much of a hot ticket Falvie art was for people trying to get dem upvotes

I saw people get into arguments over it, some of them seemed to think they had some kind of claim to reposting art from certain popular artists because they've always been the one doing it or some such nonsense. And wow can some people there be bitter about getting a downvote for no good reason, with many editing a comment they've made to take a passive aggressive jab at whomever dared to downvote.

Yeah, I feel like simply having a limited number of upvotes per day per user is about the only way a rep system can work without being massively abused, or causing ridiculous amounts of drama and entitlement, or as stated before, killing good conversations and discussions because people don't want to have their precious numbers taken away.

[Wolflich]

I don't really see the point in a rep system that doesn't do anything and after reddit I'd never again touch one that does do anything.

[Sidhenearlahi]

I don't really see the point in a rep system that doesn't do anything and after reddit I'd never again touch one that does do anything.

Positive rep systems tend to encourage good discussion and proactivity within communities like this. It functions similarly to, say, likes/favourites on an artists work. Seeing that recognition and appreciation come in can be infinitely encouraging. It can make people want to do more, to produce and contribute more, to be a positive part of a community.

Of course if you don't care much about any of that then yeah, you might not see any merit in it I suppose.

[Dr. Doggo]

I don't mind if the thingie we have now gets axed or not.

It's not a "rep system" until negging becomes a part of it. Right now it's no different to FAF's "this" count.

[Wolflich]

Positive rep systems tend to encourage good discussion and proactivity within communities like this. It functions similarly to, say, likes/favourites on an artists work. Seeing that recognition and appreciation come in can be infinitely encouraging. It can make people want to do more, to produce and contribute more, to be a positive part of a community.
Of course if you don't care much about any of that then yeah, you might not see any merit in it I suppose.

How can you tell if it works?

I've always just used favourites kind of like a list of aspirations.

[Aidy]

faf's 'this' counter is probably the best thing to use, rather than reputation, i mean it - usually - prevented people from posting something in a thread which said the exact same thing as someone who posted 10 minutes earlier, as they could just upvote that post

giving certain forum members rep helps with new people getting an idea of who the more prominent members are but otherwise it just sorta has no purpose imo, bar having a little green number under your icon

[Sidhenearlahi]

How can you tell if it works?

I've always just used favourites kind of like a list of aspirations.

I suppose there's no real way of knowing for sure. Some communities might not work out that way.

For example, should any popular or well known furries join these forums there's always the chance that a majority of this forum showers every single one of their daily "Like This" upvotes on them, regardless of quality of conversation or contribution.

 Or perhaps it'll just turn the forum into a hugbox should safe, positive, sickeningly sweet comments become the best means of securing likes.

Or it could go the way I hear FA's forum went. I wasn't a part of it, so I don't know firsthand, but former user accounts I've seen seem to indicate that the most encouraged form of community 'contribution' was to just shitpost as hard as you could.

I just feel historically there's been more evidence for why a downvote or negative rep button would cause more issues than anything. Maybe it could work if we limit downvotes more than we limit upvotes? So it isn't so easy for users to piss them away on inconsequential stuff they just don't personally like or agree with, and are saved for people that have done something to deserve a kick in the E-Peen

[Wolflich]

...the most encouraged form of community 'contribution' was to just shitpost as hard as you could.

As with life.

I just feel historically there's been more evidence for why a downvote or negative rep button would cause more issues than anything. Maybe it could work if we limit downvotes more than we limit upvotes? So it isn't so easy for users to piss them away on inconsequential stuff they just don't personally like or agree with, and are saved for people that have done something to deserve a kick in the E-Peen

From what I've seen on sites like voat/whoaverse the limits don't change the behaviour, only the frequency. When the community was good the votes were used well; when reddit banned their scummiest communities and they all flooded over to it and saturated the community with shit, the votes were used for shit.

[FlynnCoyote]

I've seen neg rep be abused before, but I've also seen +rep be abused as well.

So long as the rep system here is only one point at a time it should be okay. On another forum I saw a system where a poster's rep power went up the higher their own rep and post count were. Some people could give anywhere between fifty to a hundred points with one click. It fostered a community of bootlickers with a small clique of people held up by them. Eventually the staff decided the system was fucked, reset all rep to zero and limited every user to one rep power. Neg rep was a similar story, but that was curbed much sooner when the feature was removed.

Cautionary tale. Don't enable neg rep. And don't enable higher rep power if that is even an option here. They're both trouble.

[Caretaker]

vBulletin had a rep system, the higher up the ladder you got, the more points you could give (or remove). FAF never had it enabled and I added the "Post Thanks" hack and modified it as a "This" button because it seemed a fitting way to stop people adding one-word posts of the same name.

The system on this software has the options of: Likes/This's, +Rep only, -Rep only or +/-Rep. Thankfully the default is Likes. Everybody starts out as Neutral but then once you get above 10 or so, that rep changes to Excellent and goes no further. It does not grant any extra powers it's just a marker on your profile page that indicates the community tends to Like a lot of that users posts/content but otherwise has little meaning.

[ChaosCalix]

Oh man, Reddit. I only recently started using it, and pretty much only to browse /r/furry, and one thing that was made abundantly clear is just how much of a hot ticket Falvie art was for people trying to get dem upvotes
I saw people get into arguments over it, some of them seemed to think they had some kind of claim to reposting art from certain popular artists because they've always been the one doing it or some such nonsense. And wow can some people there be bitter about getting a downvote for no good reason, with many editing a comment they've made to take a passive aggressive jab at whomever dared to downvote.

Hah, if that's the case, you're probably very much familiar with my posts there. (well, depends on HOW recently you started browsing)

Yeah, I fucking hate how Falvie and Kenket are a golden ticket to points, and I've called people out on it before. And the people who post them have outright stated to me that they just do it because "loleasypoints". Nyeh... (also, yep, guilty of the downvote edit.. but come on, some of those are total horseshit, especially when I spend 20 minutes making a reasonably in depth response and get instantly blasted with downvotes because I disagreed. Thankfully it tends to flip around though)

-Rep only

....

Everybody starts out as Neutral but then once you get above 10 or so, that rep changes to Excellent and goes no further.

1: Wow, that'd be such a shitshow. That'd be hilarious to pull as a prank, but.. wow. WHY would anyone want to enable that?

2: Well, ACTUALLY, it goes from Neutral to Good xP

[FlynnCoyote]

Sounds like a good system here then.

[Endless/Nameless]

I am resurrecting this ancient thread from the days of old.

I don't like the like limit. I don't like it one bit.

From what I can see in these archaic scripts above, the granting of 30LPD (likes-per-day) was a generous concession; but in these modern days of Garlicc Bread and Libel there is just too much Quality Content™️ for the current like system to sustain.

Not only is liking a good way to show people you appreciated their post, but it is also a good way to show agreement when you don't have the time/creativity for a textual reply.

I do not want to limit my use of this powerful tool, or be hobbled; just as none wishes to ration their bread, or to break their thumbs.

But yet over the past week I have repeatedly found myself bereft of likes; scores of hardworking posters unthanked, great posts gone ignored. I find myself beginning to judge my fellow poster, speculating whether they are not worthy of my likes.

This is not the path to great posting.

I say, make it unlimited. Likes for everyone. A like in every pot, and a reply in every garage.

I understand taking precautions against the system being gamed, but I can't really see that being a huge issue here. Especially since they don't really do much of anything.

Discuss.

[willow]

we'll see

I'm sure there's a way to make it unlimited but even if there isn't, we could probably put in some arbitrary number like 1 billion likes so it'd be virtually impossible to run out in a day

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

42 minutes ago, willow said:

we could probably put in some arbitrary number like 1 billion likes so it'd be virtually impossible to run out in a day

Is that a challenge?

[willow]

Just now, Sidewalk Surfboard said:

Is that a challenge?

..maybe..

[Endless/Nameless]

I want my

 

I want my

 

I want my billion likes

[Zytan]

5 hours ago, Endless/Nameless said:

I want my

 

I want my

 

I want my billion likes

 

Make a bunch of alts, duh :v

[Chrysocyon]

I haven't hit the "like" limit yet.  I don't like you guys that much on a daily basis.

[Endless/Nameless]

35 minutes ago, Chrysocyon said:

I don't like you guys that much on a daily basis.

[Chrysocyon]

1 minute ago, Endless/Nameless said:

Alright, here's an extra like just for that. x3

[FlynnCoyote]

We have users with over a thousand rep. For six months of site openage that's pretty good. The system is fine as it is.

How important is one silly number to you anyway?

[Endless/Nameless]

19 minutes ago, FlynnCoyote said:

We have users with over a thousand rep. For six months of site openage that's pretty good. The system is fine as it is.

How important is one silly number to you anyway?

That's not the discussed issue at all; we just want to be able to freely like other people's posts when we appreciate them. If someone posts something really awesome, I shouldn't have to not like it just because I had already liked a bunch of funny posts earlier in the rolling 24-hour limit period. Otherwise we could just get rid of the like system altogether and just constantly post: 

"This"

"Thats funny"

"I agree"

"Ha Ha."

[FlynnCoyote]

Then clearly you're not cynical enough.

[Endless/Nameless]

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams

[FlynnCoyote]

1 minute ago, Rhíulchabán said:

Cynicism is quickly becoming passe, it's not the eta of Post 9/11 cynics anymore

What I mean is you can get a giggle from a post without having to show it. If I liked every post that made me slightly smile I'd be running out of likes too. I just don't feel the need to spread them so freely for so little. I only like a post if I feel it actually makes a good point or gives me a genuine laugh.

[Endless/Nameless]

2 minutes ago, FlynnCoyote said:

What I mean is you can get a giggle from a post without having to show it. If I liked every post that made me slightly smile I'd be running out of likes too. I just don't feel the need to spread them so freely for so little. I only like a post if I feel it actually makes a good point or gives me a genuine laugh.

I'm just too goddamn generous