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Things that you hate! v2


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2 minutes ago, U-235 said:

Yes faith requires an assumption to begin with and you're right about that. It doesn't mean it will translate over and taint my understanding of other aspects of life, such as how I conduct scientific experiments. I'm always going to remains skeptical of data until I have definitive proof to show what is the most plausible conclusion. That's just how science and education for that matter works. There's nothing to reconcile if you don't allow it to lead you blindly in other parts of your life.

I know a volcanologist who believes that quantum mechanics proves her spiritual beliefs are right, so obviously plenty of scientists do allow their spiritual beliefs to impair their opportunity to understand other scientific fields, or even their own field.

The unfortunate reality is that some people view scientific fields they don't understand as merely a means to support their pet theory, rather than as interesting and worthwhile pursuits in their own right.

 

I'm not going to agree with this. What I find as evidence in science is something that stands alone as it's own item. However on that note while it does stand alone I feel it's something that gives me a better sense of how the universe works and how things were created. And with that I feel closer to god. The way I've come to understand the universe god created things, and science is our way of understanding the creation. Scientific evidence and methods are valid and the data that results is valid. For me it's validation of how much power god has, but not inherently evidence he exists. That's where faith steps in. Sure I feel that symmetry of the universe and how I've come to understand physics draws me to believe that god exists, but it's not definitive proof and I'm not claiming that in any way. And lastly, you're honestly being a bit disrespectful. If you disagree that's fine, but you don't need to state you're feeling sorry for me or that my faith is ultimately causing problems. I'm not saying that you're a bad person for not believing what I believe. We're all on different paths and all have a different understanding of how the world works based on how we were raised and our experiences. We don't have to agree and we don't need to even see eye to eye on any of it, but at the very least let's be civil about our discussion on it, please?

Science is just a means of evidence based investigation.

It is not a form of religious reverence for anybody's private spiritual beliefs, because those private beliefs are founded on faith, which is antithetical to a philosophy that demands evidence. 

Accuse me of being disrespectful for saying that, but can you fault my objectivity in this discussion? There are numerous examples of individual scientists compromising their understanding because they have to distort it to accommodate their pet theories.

Religious beliefs haven't passed independent rigorous scrutiny so you should be aware that they are pet theories, and using them to inform your scientific outlook can cause all the problems you'd normally expect from those.

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8 minutes ago, Saxon said:

I know a volcanologist who believes that quantum mechanics proves her spiritual beliefs are right, so obviously plenty of scientists do allow their spiritual beliefs to impair their opportunity to understand other scientific fields, or even their own field.

The unfortunate reality is that some people view scientific fields they don't understand as merely a means to support their pet theory, rather than as interesting and worthwhile pursuits in their own right.

And I'm not one to simply stay complacent in gaining an understanding of a field as a means to an end for my own understanding of my faith. I feel they are worthwhile pursuits on their own and I do study it for the sake that it's interesting and fun for me. But I do also feel it can help me in my understanding of god. And why is it such a huge deal? It's not going to effect how I report results or even how I study other fields. I'm going to study them for the sake of contributing to the scientific community as my primary objective period. However as a secondary note, it makes me feel a little bit better about my faith, but that's not my primary reason for studying science. My primary reason I became a Nuclear engineer was because I was afraid of nuclear power plants in 1st grade so I studied them and decided I wanted to contribute to it by 2nd grade and claimed I wanted to be a nuclear physicist. So ultimately man, that's fine you don't agree with me and I'm actually happy you've found a way of understanding the world that gives you meaning in this world. We all need that. But in the end, we're not going to change each other's minds, simply have (what I request at least) to be civil discourse on it as intelligent individuals with differing opinions. None the less I've got an electromagnetism test to take. See ya at 6 EST.  

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Just now, U-235 said:

And I'm not one to simply stay complacent in gaining an understanding of a field as a means to an end for my own understanding of my faith. I feel they are worthwhile pursuits on their own and I do study it for the sake that it's interesting and fun for me. But I do also feel it can help me in my understanding of god. And why is it such a huge deal? It's not going to effect how I report results or even how I study other fields. I'm going to study them for the sake of contributing to the scientific community as my primary objective period. However as a secondary note, it makes me feel a little bit better about my faith, but that's not my primary reason for studying science. My primary reason I because a Nuclear engineer was because I was afraid of nuclear power plants in 1st grade so I studied them and decided I wanted to contribute to it by 2nd grade and claimed I wanted to be a nuclear physicist. So ultimately man, that's fine you don't agree with me and I'm actually happy you've found a way of understanding the world that gives you meaning in this world. We all need that. But in the end, we're not going to change each other's minds, simply have (what I request at least) to be civil discourse on it as intelligent individuals with differing opinions. None the less I've got an electromagnetism test to take. See ya at 6 EST.  

If science is a worthwhile pursuit on its own, why make comments like 'it brings me closer to god' or that you do it because you want to understand the mind of the creator?
Assuming that physical reality is underlain by a teleological intelligence is a *massive* assumption that could seriously compromise the integrity of conclusions.
For example, there are huge problems reconciling the idea of an eternal god with the indication that the cosmos is temporally finite, or reconciling an omnipresent god with the existence of 'causality bubbles' beyond which information can never be communicated, and the fact that relativistic physics shows that there is no synchronous time line in the cosmos. Never mind that the biology of this planet is characterised by a process of evolution that is proven not to be teleological.
What you assume that reality has to have a human-like creator you implicitly anthropomorphise your interpretation of the cosmos, which is a notorious mistake that scientists continually make, much to the detriment of their fields. :\

It is better not to make this assumption in the first place, and if the universe was created by a super-powerful alien or alien race (which for some reason cares about our moral choices), to let that conclusion ultimately be born out by investigation.

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15 hours ago, FlynnCoyote said:

Religion in general should probably just be done away with. 

After having an involved argument with U-235 about religion's place in science, you're probably going to be surprised that I vehemently oppose this notion.
Religion deserves to be criticised just as any other set of ideas would.
I think the notion of 'doing away with it' sounds unpleasantly authoritarian and unrealistic.

Returning to the original discussion, which prompted this debate, genital mutilation is something I wouldn't mind people 'doing away with', because this admittedly authoritative intervention would be done to protect the personal medical integrity and right to self-determination of the victims.

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Guys, just start a new thread and see if the mods can move those posts over (or link to them or something).

 

21 hours ago, Alexxx-Returns said:

A guy from the gym added me on Facebook.

He started messaging me.

We talked for a few hours.

I showed him the Digimon porn I wrote.

THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE is why I hate myself.

I could care less for digimon porn (really? REALLY?) but you do what you like best. Though I probably wouldn't show it off on the first date.

Unless it's Renamon porn in which case I'd be okay with it.

2 hours ago, WolfNightV4X1 said:

20161214_145307.jpg

This is why I dont draw anymore

Because you're upside down?

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3 hours ago, Saxon said:

If science is a worthwhile pursuit on its own, why make comments like 'it brings me closer to god' or that you do it because you want to understand the mind of the creator?
Assuming that physical reality is underlain by a teleological intelligence is a *massive* assumption that could seriously compromise the integrity of conclusions.
For example, there are huge problems reconciling the idea of an eternal god with the indication that the cosmos is temporally finite, or reconciling an omnipresent god with the existence of 'causality bubbles' beyond which information can never be communicated, and the fact that relativistic physics shows that there is no synchronous time line in the cosmos. Never mind that the biology of this planet is characterised by a process of evolution that is proven not to be teleological.
What you assume that reality has to have a human-like creator you implicitly anthropomorphise your interpretation of the cosmos, which is a notorious mistake that scientists continually make, much to the detriment of their fields. :\

It is better not to make this assumption in the first place, and if the universe was created by a super-powerful alien or alien race (which for some reason cares about our moral choices), to let that conclusion ultimately be born out by investigation.

So that E-mag test actually went fairly well all things considered and I'm now done with finals!! YEAH! So anyway this will be my last rebuttal to this because I feel we're clogging up the thread with this at this point. If you want to write something further feel free to do so, but I won't respond on this particular thread at least. Feel free to message me otherwise if you want or whatever suits you.

 

Okay so the reason I choose to do this is because I feel it compliments and enriches the experience of a scientific pursuit. The thing is though there is a very specific line that follows. Things I publish and write up in academic journals and other places is specifically based exclusively on the data collected and in no way will reflect my own views of the world, or to the best of my ability. My own personal conclusions are what I draw based on my understanding of the world, which in part includes my faith. That is the defining idea. I have scientific conclusions that get reported in a secular fashion and I have my own personal conclusions of which include my faith as a component but this is not reported in journals. As for the idea of reconciling an eternal god. Consider the idea of the ending of the universe. The most prominent at the moment is the big crunch in which if the universe is not able to overcome gravitational forces of all matter in itself then it will eventually slow down it's expansion and begin to contract. One possible result is that it generates yet another big bang. So in theory time may not ever end in a continually expanding and collapsing universe. And in all honesty, if there really is a finite time line of everything, then what possibly could have existed outside of our universe or how did it even come into existence? I don't believe that we are infinitely far away from are start point assuming the big crunch theory is true. But I believe god existed at all points during our universe's existence and existed outside of the realm of our universe. I don't think it'd make sense to state that he exists within the realm of this universe. It'd imply physical limitations which I don't believe any apply to him. I do have to say this, I've never heard the specific term "causality bubbles" used in any context in my studies, would you be willing to send me a link or explain that a bit more? But yes I know that time isn't synchronous in the universe. That's a basic result of the space-time continuum having essentially bends and dips in it that result in variations in the movement of time. But again I don't confine god to this universe or this realm and that's why I don't believe we can bound him by physical laws. He can influence this realm and can partake in it, but his existence isn't limited to what exists here. Also that's a bit of a bold statement to say it has been proven it's not teleological. Obviously evolution is what explains how we came to be, I'm not questioning that. But with the amount of possible variables involved in the entire time span (from the moment the earth began forming to now), to state it's been proven that there is no outside involvement is a rather large claim.

None the less I make my assumption and hold my faith as is, and that's not changing. Perhaps I'm being stubborn about it, yes I am. Because this is what makes sense to me based on what I've studied and seen. Ultimately though I feel there is too much symmetry about things for it to all be just the nature and inherit properties of the universe. And lastly it makes sense to me and feels like it accounts for oddities in our moral construct that wouldn't be there otherwise. It gives me a sense of being and purpose in this world.

Sure I enjoy the works of Albert Camus (the stranger was a fantastic book) and I like to dabble in the thoughts of existentialism every now and then, but ultimately I find one problem with it. It's too robotic to account for how we are in nearly every aspect of life.

Anyway that's my rant, like I said feel free to respond, but I won't be responding on this thread anymore because it's gotten way out of hand and we're not on topic anymore at this point. Feel free to communicate with me more if you want or not. Up to you. Have a happy holidays and I wish you luck with whatever lies ahead for you! 

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1 hour ago, U-235 said:

Snipped

I don't think you can claim with any honesty that spiritual beliefs enrich scientific understanding if you find yourself having to make sure you make no mention of them at all in published work, so that you can avoid compromising that work's objectivity.

What that indicates is that spiritual beliefs accepted on faith, rather than on reason, are not objective and therefore provide the risk of contaminating research rather than enriching it.

Ideas that enrich research get published.

The rest of my post is esoteric and I am placing it in spoilers.

I do not believe that creatures, like gods, exist outside of the Universe because this posits the existence of an existence outside of existence, and at that point you are just creating a complete mess in order to make sure god can still be inserted into science.
You also claim physical limitations don't apply to god. I feel like I don't even need to point out that claiming a creature is incompatible wit physical law is equivalent to claiming it does not exist. :\

Biological evolution cannot be teleological, because organisms possess maladaptive traits that are a consequence of their evolutionary history. A commonly cited example is the laryngeal vagus nerve, which exits the brain and detours around the aorta before ending at the larynx. This doesn't matter in animals with short necks, because the aorta and larynx are nearby, however in animals like giraffes this means that their laryngeal vagus nerve is 4.6metres longer than necessary.  If biology were teleological we would expect organisms to be optimised for their current function, rather than being sub-optimum as a result of the constraints that their ancestry em-places.
At no point is teleological interference indicated.

But I suppose the best indications of the available evidence should be dismissed for being 'too robotic' and not giving us the conclusion that we wanted.

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9 hours ago, Saxon said:

I think you're failing to mention the pivotal medical and scientific advanced which were permitted in Renaissance Europe after the Church's role as the gatekeepers of knowledge was replaced by scientific endeavor.

 Science was born out of philosophy. Philosophy was born in dispute. And dispute is possible if there is more than one point of view. Thats why atheism and creationism are equally important .

And therefore, people like Newton, Galileo, Pascal, Linnaeus provided scientific progress in spite of their religious.

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How it's gotten cold here, and grey, but without a hint of snow...a cold grey winder is kinda dreary...snow makes things so much brighter, even if slippery. Back in Michigan, they were amazing, about how fast they plowed, and sanded the roads...here, not so much.

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4 hours ago, LazerMaster5 said:

What were you doing in jail?

I got into a fist fight with a belligerent drunk at a gas station and got to spend a day in jail for defending myself. It's not much of an interesting story, but I'll share it if anyone want to hear it.

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2 hours ago, Hux said:

I got into a fist fight with a belligerent drunk at a gas station and got to spend a day in jail for defending myself. It's not much of an interesting story, but I'll share it if anyone want to hear it.

How many times have you been raped in shower there?

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1 hour ago, Vitaly said:

How many times have you been raped in shower there?

None, I'm afraid. All I did was play Uno with an old biker and some hungover drunks at noon and I ate some p shitty chicken-fried steak. There weren't any hardcore criminals there, just some junkies, parolees, drunks, and other petty criminals. I wasn't in prison, I was in jail. Jail is way different.

Oh, and the soap they gave us had big bumps in it so it's really hard to drop. I was sort of expecting it to be like soap on a rope or shower gel. I did get nervous about getting a boner while surrounded by a bunch of naked guys, but they were almost all ugly as fuck so I wasn't too concerned about getting a stiffy. I also realized that my meat and potatoes look pretty good when. I walk around. I'm actually really proud of them.

There was a fat female guard with crimson red hair and I wanted to fuck the shit out of her. She had jade eyes, too. I decided that I would hit on her and lay it on really thick. I mean, I was already in jail, so why the fuck not? Unfortunately, I never got the chance, but I was ready to tell her that she was a voluptuous fox. I knew I wouldn't stand a snowball's chance in hell, but I thought it'd be fun just to honest towards someone for once about how I'd totally fuck them silly. I was feeling strangely confident and reckless. There was also this tall, blue-eyed, square-jawed guard that I was romantically attracted to in an instant. I'd legit let him butt rape me. He was surprisingly friendly and he talked about a fishing trip he took with his family. His hetero family. I wish he'd take me fishing ;( I love you, Dave. I never hit on him because I didn't exactly want the fact that I'm bi to be known. Also, he was probably homophobic and would cave my skull in with his nightstick.

My roomie was a 60-year-old Vietnam vet who talked about snorting coke and fucking hookers in Florida in the 70's. He also talked about his pickup truck and his labrador. His ex-wife is a soulless whore, apparently. Rednecks are fun people. He was a quiet masturbator.

 

Well, I guess this goes to show how pathetic my social life is. Going to jail was more of an opportunity to to meet people than a punishment. Good thing I'm not the depressive type or I would've blown my tiny brain out long ago.

Wait... maybe nobody fucked with me because I creeped them out. Maybe I'm not handsome enough to sodomize. Now I'm offended.

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On 15/12/2016 at 4:36 AM, Vitaly said:

 Science was born out of philosophy. Philosophy was born in dispute. And dispute is possible if there is more than one point of view. Thats why atheism and creationism are equally important .

And therefore, people like Newton, Galileo, Pascal, Linnaeus provided scientific progress in spite of their religious.

Belief in elves is important to science, because if there wasn't an argument about the existence of elves, then science would be devoid of any meaningful disagreement.
Do you see why your argument is ridiculous?

It is frankly amazing that you defend religious interference in science, by arguing that Galileo succeeded 'in spite of being religious', given that Copernican Astronomy was banned by the church and Galileo was convicted of Heresy and imprisoned until his death for, among other things, supporting Copernican Astronomy, observing mountains on the moon, the phases of Venus and moons of Jupiter.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair

This affair can only be represented as a 'success story' of religious influence in Science by someone who is grossly ignorant of history. :\

I think you at least have tacitly admitted that religion is not useful to science though, and implicitly antithetical to it, because you describe historical figures as succeeding 'in spite' of the oppressive burden of religious delimitation to freedom of expression that prevailed in Europe until it was finally cast off in the Age of Enlightenment.

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30 minutes ago, Crazy Lee said:

I hate how this religious argument won't go into it's own thread.

I'm an atheist and I have serious issues with blind faith.

But religion has done good things in the past. Orphanages. Hospitals. Charities. I think even universities. All started in some way through religious institution.

Oh I'm definitely not advocating the position that religion is completely horrible in all ways and should be prohibited.

I am just finding myself being confronted with bizarre comments that try to represent the imprisonment of Galileo as an example of Religion and Science working together. O_o

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1 hour ago, Saxon said:

People who are younger than me and have easily achieved everything I want.

What's it that you want? Curious here. I'm guessing romance, as one thing....Also, I can't recall, but are you about 22? I have not seen too many people that young who have achieved tons of things or everything I might want. sometimes, I do envy the ones that just get born into money, and their folks give them cars, and stuff like that, and they never really 'have' to work for much of anything, and have all this free time, and can do things like see a dentist and Dr. when they need to, and not have to wait, due to no money, like here.

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4 hours ago, Fossa-Boy said:

 and can do things like see a dentist and Dr. when they need to, and not have to wait, due to no money, like here.

Slightly related to this, but I've never been to either from a regular check up because we couldn't afford it. I've only ever gone to a doctor for an emergency.

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I hate insincere compliments from popular artists, because you can tell that they're not at all interested in your art- they are only interested in building a rapport with potential customers.

You might watch a popular artist for example, and then get a comment on your page saying 'thanks for the watch, oh, and awesome gallery by the way!'. So, if you think that my gallery is 'awesome', are you going to watch my gallery, leave any helpful comments in it, or ever talk to me again? Didn't think so.

They just think that people will swoon for a compliment from their idol, and give them their money on patreon.

8 hours ago, Fossa-Boy said:

What's it that you want? Curious here. I'm guessing romance, as one thing....Also, I can't recall, but are you about 22? I have not seen too many people that young who have achieved tons of things or everything I might want. sometimes, I do envy the ones that just get born into money, and their folks give them cars, and stuff like that, and they never really 'have' to work for much of anything, and have all this free time, and can do things like see a dentist and Dr. when they need to, and not have to wait, due to no money, like here.

Relationships, fursuit, following of people interested in their art, publication, place to live, good looks.

...I've technically done the publication part, but the other artists in that book are so awful that I wish I wasn't associated with it.

It's mostly pretentious stuff like this:

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9932e2_75855e43bc7240a380bf70a83691eba1~

?format=750w

IMG_1886_edited-1.jpg?format=1000w

 

That last one's not bizarre porn of somebody with a fetish for dressing as a clown and rubbing their feet into chocolate cake. It is a piece of art, apparently.

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15 hours ago, Fossa-Boy said:

What's it that you want? Curious here. I'm guessing romance, as one thing....Also, I can't recall, but are you about 22? I have not seen too many people that young who have achieved tons of things or everything I might want. sometimes, I do envy the ones that just get born into money, and their folks give them cars, and stuff like that, and they never really 'have' to work for much of anything, and have all this free time, and can do things like see a dentist and Dr. when they need to, and not have to wait, due to no money, like here.

A career. A job better than the shit I have now. A purpose in life. Not being in shit jobs until I die. Realizing the older I get the more likely HR people will reject me based on age because they're dicks. Also, a relationship might be nice.

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4 minutes ago, Crazy Lee said:

A career. A job better than the shit I have now. A purpose in life. Not being in shit jobs until I die. Realizing the older I get the more likely HR people will reject me based on age because they're dicks. Also, a relationship might be nice.

One frustrating thing is that a lot of the people who have all the things you already want are just....really nice people. 
It would be easier if they were assholes.

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2 minutes ago, Crazy Lee said:

A career. A job better than the shit I have now. A purpose in life. Not being in shit jobs until I die. Realizing the older I get the more likely HR people will reject me based on age because they're dicks. Also, a relationship might be nice.

I was actually considering making a topic related to that, as I have been thinking in the same way as of late. What is my purpose in life, is this it? Is working in a dead end job that I hate going to every single day going to be the only thing I do until the day I die? What's the point? We live to work and work to live, and there are no two ways about it. The only thing we do is work to get more money, get more material possessions, pay bills, pay taxes, and then we die. What is the purpose to this life? This, I do not know.

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22 minutes ago, Saxon said:

One frustrating thing is that a lot of the people who have all the things you already want are just....really nice people. 
It would be easier if they were assholes.

Sometimes. There's also the buttholes that everyone seems to like and have really awesome girlfriends (not just looks wise, but personality wise too). It's at those moments, I start to feel like one of them there "nice guys" that are highly ridiculed. But I just get jealous easily lol

I still get jealous of the nice people, but I have a lot less disdain for them.

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When I can't tell if I offended someone.

DON'T GO SILENT! Grow a pair and tell me!

I won't hate you or anything. I won't be offended back either. I'll rather be sorry if anything. But FFS let me know!

This is why I still have such a hard time reaching people. I'd like to have some guides along the way. But even that seems impossible.

 

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@Saxon I hear you about your struggles, and also, face some of them myself...it's hard. But time is on your side, I'm twice as old! And though I have been lucky in romance, my finances are not pretty...I'll probably never own a house, with my credit, and as for a 'meaningful' job, I have never been able to imagine what that would even be...I mean, "poet" does not pay, and they don't really hire actual teachers/profs at universities anymore, just 'adjuncts', who get shitty pay, and no benefits, and no job security. So I feel your struggles. But take heart in that you have so much more time left...I know a lot of people say this, and it may seem like a corny consolation, but keep trying. Oh, and I heard you're very handsome!!!! I bet you'll find somebody, I have a hunch. 

~

Huh, here, I was thinking: that due to various things, I have tended to splurge on the occasional decadent, capricious thing: a nice meal, a concert...knowing that even if I saved every last dime, I'd still be broke, so, may as well enjoy the time I have left to live. Oddly, I have failed to age, and got carded for cigarettes last week...which is now very flattering.

But I do hate thinking that death just gets closer and closer...I can't say I'm very excited about the idea, and in, fact, it scares me a good deal.

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I hate how ClockWorkMod Manager cannot make a proper backup of this Tohiba Thrive's system without restarting the tablet and not making said backup. I do not want to load any system ROMs onto the tablet without making a backup first, as I want to be able to mod away without fear of losing everything.

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