news North Korea's Fourth Nuclear Bomb Test

[DrGravitas]

North Korea has tested another nuclear bomb today

They claim it was a Hydrogen bomb, though skeptical intelligence agencies believe it was just a boosted fission device. The test was again performed underground and registered as a 5.1 earthquake with the USGS.

 

[Sarcastic Coffeecup]

A dangerous tool in the hands of idiots.

I know it's wrong to generalize, but come on, that nation is backwards.

[Vitaly]

Best Korea strikes again

[Half-Note]

Many do not realize, but Kim is actually a philanthropist with the sole goal of bringing complete peace to the world.

Peace and quiet. That is what a nuclear armageddon will give us.

#AtomsforPeace

[Snagged]

That's another token for North Korea in the game of international politics if it will be evident that NK will be capable of producing its own hydrogen nukes

[Kaedal]

Does that mean we can call them Nukorea now?

I don't think their acquisition of nuclear weapons is half as much a threat as their apparent underground nuclear testing networks. What, are they gonna shoot a damn nuke into the core of the planet? Instigate earthquakes in China? Build an underground evil supervillain lair?

[DrGravitas]

Fun fact: After their separation in the 50's, NK held the lion share of Korea's industrial capacity, mines, and natural resources. It was economically stronger than the south for quite some time, though the south held the major shares of farmland. Of course, today their industrial facilities are still something out the 50's and their mines are now used for testing nukes and committing human rights atrocities.

But hey! They got a sexy cartoon fox!

Edited January 7, 2016 by DrGravitas
Wow, the image was a lot smaller and less terrible on my mobile :/ Changed to a nice simple .gif

[Nova]

If kim young poop wants peace why dont we nuke him than he has peace.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Nova

[PastryOfApathy]

I don't really care.

NK has been grandstanding like this for decades and it's the same shit every single time. NK does something scary and deliberately makes it a huge event for attention, the international community condemns them and SK (and by extension, the US) goes on higher alert for a few weeks.

Then...nothing happens because NK both won't and literally can't do anything substantial because they're a country on life support that's only standing because of China and the threat of a Korean refugee crisis.

[Gamedog]

Today in Things That Didn't Happen....

[AshleyAshes]

7 hours ago, Kaedal said:

Does that mean we can call them Nukorea now?

I don't think their acquisition of nuclear weapons is half as much a threat as their apparent underground nuclear testing networks. What, are they gonna shoot a damn nuke into the core of the planet? Instigate earthquakes in China? Build an underground evil supervillain lair?

Most nukes are tested underground, it avoids getting all that nuclear fallout all over the place.

[Kaedal]

45 minutes ago, AshleyAshes said:

Most nukes are tested underground, it avoids getting all that nuclear fallout all over the place.

... Yes, but keep in mind it's North Korea. 

[AshleyAshes]

Just now, Kaedal said:

... Yes, but keep in mind it's North Korea. 

Yes, a small country that really doesn't need nuclear fallout landing on itself.  Not to mention, above ground tests would be harder to hide from surveillance.  They're crazy but not STUPID. 

[ZorroValdez]

I'm sure they won't be able to really try nuking anyone. I'd bet that one test was enough to break the budget for a while.

[Khaki]

11 hours ago, DrGravitas said:

But hey! They got a sexy cartoon fox!

It's like the animators secretly like the western world and portray them is such a manner.

Also, due to the thread's topic..

[WileyWarWeasel]

I can't resist grinding my political axe on this issue.

Keep in mind that before 2002 NK and USA had an agreement called the "Agreed Framework". This was (among other things) about dismantling any nuclear capability of NK while they received assistance in getting fuel and replacement energy infrastructure set up.

USA unsurprisingly did not properly comply with their side of the arrangement and even delayed fuel supplies to NK while they put them on their "Axis of Evil" list and began to run a negative media campaign against them.

For some reason unfathomable to average Westerners the NK leadership saw the moves by USA as being the possible prelude to an invasion. The subsequent manufacture of primitive nuclear devices that they could barely project outside of their territory was thus an insanely desperate move rather than merely a crazy one.

I'm not condoning their actions or the way they conduct their domestic/foreign affairs, I just wanted to point out what would've formed at least part of their motivation for manufacturing primitive nukes

[Yarra]

Dude it's the H-Bomb of Fucking Justice!

[DrGravitas]

52 minutes ago, 6tails said:

5.1 on the Richter scale? So, what, 10-15 kilotons? I can fart that hard after a couple of bowls of my chili. Wake me when they can actually hit megaton range and cause a 7+, then I'll start worrying.

Yeah, they didn't even manage to beat their previous test's yield but they're still claiming it's a hydrogen bomb and that they have 'many hundreds' of them.

[PastryOfApathy]

5 hours ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

I can't resist grinding my political axe on this issue.

Keep in mind that before 2002 NK and USA had an agreement called the "Agreed Framework". This was (among other things) about dismantling any nuclear capability of NK while they received assistance in getting fuel and replacement energy infrastructure set up.

USA unsurprisingly did not properly comply with their side of the arrangement and even delayed fuel supplies to NK while they put them on their "Axis of Evil" list and began to run a negative media campaign against them.

For some reason unfathomable to average Westerners the NK leadership saw the moves by USA as being the possible prelude to an invasion. The subsequent manufacture of primitive nuclear devices that they could barely project outside of their territory was thus an insanely desperate move rather than merely a crazy one.

I'm not condoning their actions or the way they conduct their domestic/foreign affairs, I just wanted to point out what would've formed at least part of their motivation for manufacturing primitive nukes

Yeah, they literally don't have a choice in a lot of ways. NK has always been a kind of pet interest of mine and I think a lot of people overall have this hideous misunderstanding of how the country works (I'm using a very loose definition of 'work' here).

The land they walk on is about as fertile of a shit-covered rock, and their industry basically amounts to remote villages just trying desperately to survive off whatever they can get and the occasional Siberian slave labor camp. All they can do (at least from their insane point of view) is threaten the west and fuel their emaciated war machine and look scary until they can convince the US and China to give them food in a way that allows them just enough room to contort it into a "victory".

Other countries trade silk, crops, or cheap knock-off cellphones. North Korea trades in mostly-hollow threats and occasionally silly looking pictures of their leader.

Edited January 7, 2016 by PastryOfApathy

[Half-Note]

On 6.1.2016 at 7:44 PM, DrGravitas said:

Fun fact: After their separation in the 50's, NK held the lion share of Korea's industrial capacity, mines, and natural resources. It was economically stronger than the south for quite some time, though the south held the major shares of farmland. Of course, today their industrial facilities are still something out the 50's and their mines are now used for testing nukes and committing human rights atrocities.

But hey! They got a sexy cartoon fox!

North Korea will destroy Hollywood with quality animation.

[Rassah]

https://www.facebook.com/scott.bowen.5205/videos/516230758548674/

[Lucyfish]

If only North Koreans were cuddly anthro foxes.

[I Did It For The Cat Girls]

On 1/6/2016 at 10:34 AM, Sarcastic Coffeecup said:

A dangerous tool in the hands of idiots.

I know it's wrong to generalize, but come on, that nation is backwards.

I don't trust any human nation with nuclear weapons. 

[MalletFace]

9 hours ago, 6tails said:

5.1 on the Richter scale? So, what, 10-15 kilotons? I can fart that hard after a couple of bowls of my chili. Wake me when they can actually hit megaton range and cause a 7+, then I'll start worrying.

The bomb tested in Project Cannikin, a 5 megaton-yield hydrogen bomb, was detonated only a mile underground and caused a magnitude 6.8.

This bomb series was designed to be overkill as a way to make sure that the ICBMs it was targeting outside of the atmosphere were destroyed before they returned.

Bombs that are actually to be used on ground targets - W78, W87, W76, etc... - are absolutely tiny in comparison; they rarely go over 450 kilotons per bomb. W88, the most modern U.S. hydrogen bomb, is not likely to go over 500 kilotons. This small power is so that several bombs can fit in one warhead so many targets can be hit.

7+ would not be scary in my eyes; they have no way to miniaturize that. That bomb is comically large for the foreseeable future.

What would be scary to me is a set of tests consistently creating tremors in the 5.0-6.0 range alongside repeated tests of rockets; this would indicate that they are attempting to miniaturize a bomb for actual use.

If North Korea is desperate and backs itself into a corner, a small bomb on a rocket opens up options a massive bomb doesn't. Tokyo, Manila, Canberra, and San Diego are all a little closer and a lot more reasonable in a desperate last stand.

Edited January 8, 2016 by MalletFace

[DrGravitas]

If you guys haven't seen it before, Nukemap is always an educational experience! See the damage nuclear devices would do anywhere on the planet! Detailed, rich parameters let you specify things like burst height, yield, and numerous other advanced options! Powered by Google maps, you can see the default map view or switch to satellite view!

Be sure to scroll through all the effects on the side and check out a list of humanitarian impacts at the end! See how many schools, hospitals, or churches are in the affected area!

Check out, for example, oh say...

9 kilotons over Tokyo (optimal airburst)

9 kilos over Seoul (surface detonation)

15 kilos over San Diego (optimized for 600 psi overpressure)

You can even detonate multiple warheads!

Maybe like... 12 warheads (equal to the number of reentry vehicles of W87 MIRV from Peacekeepers that have been converted to installed in a few Minuteman IIIs) of 300 kilo yield each, at various detonation heights, over most of North Korea!

1 of these is more than enough to consume all of their capitol. Sadly, the "get a permanent link to these settings" doesn't work for multi-detonations. So have a screenshot instead! (click to enlarge)

And yes, the lower right corner I nuked is just a national park! >8D

Edited January 8, 2016 by DrGravitas
Minor text changes

[PastryOfApathy]

3 hours ago, I Did It For The Cat Girls said:

I don't trust any human nation with nuclear weapons. 

As opposed to what? A cat nation?

[WileyWarWeasel]

13 hours ago, PastryOfApathy said:

Yeah, they literally don't have a choice in a lot of ways. NK has always been a kind of pet interest of mine and I think a lot of people overall have this hideous misunderstanding of how the country works (I'm using a very loose definition of 'work' here).

The land they walk on is about as fertile of a shit-covered rock, and their industry basically amounts to remote villages just trying desperately to survive off whatever they can get and the occasional Siberian slave labor camp. All they can do (at least from their insane point of view) is threaten the west and fuel their emaciated war machine and look scary until they can convince the US and China to give them food in a way that allows them just enough room to contort it into a "victory".

Other countries trade silk, crops, or cheap knock-off cellphones. North Korea trades in mostly-hollow threats and occasionally silly looking pictures of their leader.

It's a bit sad actually, they really are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Also that fox's tail is strangely hypnotic...

[Rassah]

I doubt there's any real threat from these guys, because China will be the first in line to wipe them out if they misbehave. China basically supports them and keeps them fed, because it doesn't want a flood of North Korean refugees into its own country (something about uneducated, unskilled, and full of tuberculosis). But at this point it also feels responsible for North Korea, since it has supported it for so long, while valuing its trade relationship with US and Europe WAY above anything else (even its relationship with Russia). So if NK steps out of line and actually tries to launch one of these things, China will probably just wipe them off the map once and for all, just so it doesn't have to worry or deal with them any more.

[PastryOfApathy]

47 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

It's a bit sad actually, they really are caught between a rock and a hard place.

Not really.

While North Korean politics by its very nature isn't exactly the easiest to follow thing in the world, it's feasible that if Kim Jong Un could very well make steps towards deescalation that could lead to a better standard of living for its people. Now they're never gonna just open their borders or anything extreme like that, but it's not like it's impossible for him to at least make a token effort at deescalation.

Of course, Kim Jong Ill had a lot of sons and there's a reason Un was the one who took the reigns.

[Clove Darkwave]

America is Denouncing N. Korea!

Brazil is Denouncing N. Korea!

Byzantium is Denouncing N. Korea!

England is Denouncing N. Korea!

Egypt is Denouncing N. Korea!

India is Denouncing You!

[ZorroValdez]

Best game of Civ, evar.

[WileyWarWeasel]

8 hours ago, PastryOfApathy said:

Not really.

While North Korean politics by its very nature isn't exactly the easiest to follow thing in the world, it's feasible that if Kim Jong Un could very well make steps towards deescalation that could lead to a better standard of living for its people. Now they're never gonna just open their borders or anything extreme like that, but it's not like it's impossible for him to at least make a token effort at deescalation.

Of course, Kim Jong Ill had a lot of sons and there's a reason Un was the one who took the reigns.

By deescalation I presume you mean less border incidents. I'll agree that that would go a long way towards normalizing relations between the two countries.

Apart from making themselves look big I'm not sure why they still continue with such activities, surely the nukes as primitive as they are would be enough of a deterrent to USA bombardment/invasion?

7 hours ago, ZorroValdez said:

Best game of Civ, evar.

For those who don't play Civ an interesting thing to note is that when matches are played exclusively between human players the two victory conditions that are almost always triggered before everything else are conquest and domination...

[PastryOfApathy]

12 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

By deescalation I presume you mean less border incidents. I'll agree that that would go a long way towards normalizing relations between the two countries.

Apart from making themselves look big I'm not sure why they still continue with such activities, surely the nukes as primitive as they are would be enough of a deterrent to USA bombardment/invasion?

It means a bunch of things really but that would definitely be one of them. Curbing their rhetoric, ceasing or at the very least dialing back their weapons program and making themselves open to talks and negotiations (which they have done in the past so it's not unheard of or anything) would go a long way to building a relationship that doesn't just boil down to 'that crazy methhead in the apartment downstairs who occasionally yells at us at 3 in the morning.'

Apart from making themselves look big I'm not sure why they still continue with such activities, surely the nukes as primitive as they are would be enough of a deterrent to USA bombardment/invasion?

A lot of it is a cultural thing, mostly stemming from the fact that the cult of personality known as Kim Il-sung (the country's founder, supreme leader and official "eternal president") was batshit insane, and by extension his need to bless the world with his glorious philosophy known simply as 'Juche'. To put it simply juche is basically a bastardization of stalinism/communism with a much, much increased emphasis on self-reliance and patriotism.

Combine that with things like the Cold War, fall of the Soviet Union, economic collapse and a persecution complex the size of the sun, you get well...this.

Edited January 8, 2016 by PastryOfApathy

[WileyWarWeasel]

1 hour ago, PastryOfApathy said:

It means a bunch of things really but that would definitely be one of them. Curbing their rhetoric, ceasing or at the very least dialing back their weapons program and making themselves open to talks and negotiations (which they have done in the past so it's not unheard of or anything) would go a long way to building a relationship that doesn't just boil down to 'that crazy methhead in the apartment downstairs who occasionally yells at us at 3 in the morning.'

A lot of it is a cultural thing, mostly stemming from the fact that the cult of personality known as Kim Il-sung (the country's founder, supreme leader and official "eternal president") was batshit insane, and by extension his need to bless the world with his glorious philosophy known simply as 'Juche'. To put it simply juche is basically a bastardization of stalinism/communism with a much, much increased emphasis on self-reliance and patriotism.

Combine that with things like the Cold War, fall of the Soviet Union, economic collapse and a persecution complex the size of the sun, you get well...this.

In order for NK to even think about ceasing their weapons program they would need to be guaranteed beyond any doubt that USA would not subsequently bomb/invade them.

Given their history with USA that is not likely. Given their weapons program it also appears that they might not place that much faith in China coming to their aid in case something serious occurs.

I'm not sure if South Korea could even handle the economic strain of uniting with North Korea.

The only realistic solution it seems would be for North Korea to be more mindful of their rhetoric, to dial down their weapons program so that it only serves as a deterrent to attack, open up to negotiations more and be more careful about observing current borders.

That would require a significant change in leadership and culture.

At least foxy shows are a significant step toward positive cultural change ;33

[Zeke]

9 hours ago, Clove Darkwave said:

America is Denouncing N. Korea!

Brazil is Denouncing N. Korea!

Byzantium is Denouncing N. Korea!

England is Denouncing N. Korea!

Egypt is Denouncing N. Korea!

India is Denouncing You!

India Declares War with N.Korea

[PastryOfApathy]

7 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

In order for NK to even think about ceasing their weapons program they would need to be guaranteed beyond any doubt that USA would not subsequently bomb/invade them.

Given their history with USA that is not likely. Given their weapons program it also appears that they might not place that much faith in China coming to their aid in case something serious occurs.

The US will never invade NK barring some kind of apocalyptic scenario with South Korea which will also never happen, since contrary to popular belief NK's military leaders aren't stupid. All an invasion would do is destabilize the country, piss off China (AKA our biggest and most important trading partner), Russia, South Korea, and rest of the international community for literally zero benefit of our own.

Realistically, the ideal scenario would probably be similar to what was at the very least attempted with Iran. Although in this case it would probably just be something along the lines of "cease seeking nuclear capabilities, and we'll send you food and supplies."

16 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

I'm not sure if South Korea could even handle the economic strain of uniting with North Korea.

The only realistic solution it seems would be for North Korea to be more mindful of their rhetoric, to dial down their weapons program so that it only serves as a deterrent to attack, open up to negotiations more and be more careful about observing current borders.

That would require a significant change in leadership and culture.

Yeah, I've mentioned it before but a straight-up reunification of north and south will never happen, at least in my lifetime. It would be like the European refugee crisis times a thousand and South Korea knows it.

None of this matters anyways since it's never going to happen so y'know.

[WileyWarWeasel]

22 minutes ago, PastryOfApathy said:

The US will never invade NK barring some kind of apocalyptic scenario with South Korea which will also never happen, since contrary to popular belief NK's military leaders aren't stupid. All an invasion would do is destabilize the country, piss off China (AKA our biggest and most important trading partner), Russia, South Korea, and rest of the international community for literally zero benefit of our own.

The North Korean leadership and their people in general may have different views about this though, and to be fair given USA not honoring their part of the "Agreed Framework" and the friction between the countries this is not entirely unreasonable.

 

24 minutes ago, PastryOfApathy said:

Realistically, the ideal scenario would probably be similar to what was at the very least attempted with Iran. Although in this case it would probably just be something along the lines of "cease seeking nuclear capabilities, and we'll send you food and supplies."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I can tell NK began manufacturing nuclear weapons after USA had shirked their part of the "Agreed Framework", put them on the axis of evil list and begun running a negative media campaign in their mainstream press.

The Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons allows for peaceful use of nuclear power. Iran is an interesting case since while they did screw up in properly reporting every minutiae of their activities in the past there is no actual evidence of nuclear weapons being actively developed in the country.

There were some apparent leaks to the mainstream press however IAEA investigations subsequently showed that they were fraudulent.

It's also interesting to note that Israel never joined NPT and will not confirm or deny nuclear weapons being present on their soil.

I can understand USA supporting their ally in the ME having nuclear weapons while their rival cannot even get civilian use of nuclear power but lets not kid ourselves into thinking that USA wants the ME to be a "nuclear-free zone" or something similar.

34 minutes ago, PastryOfApathy said:

Yeah, I've mentioned it before but a straight-up reunification of north and south will never happen, at least in my lifetime. It would be like the European refugee crisis times a thousand and South Korea knows it.

None of this matters anyways since it's never going to happen so y'know.

True, what will most likely happen is endless bickering and sabre rattling.

[PastryOfApathy]

37 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

The North Korean leadership and their people in general may have different views about this though, and to be fair given USA not honoring their part of the "Agreed Framework" and the friction between the countries this is not entirely unreasonable.

It doesn't matter what the people think, especially when they've been indoctrinated to believe that the US has been on the verge of invasion 24/7 for the last 30 or so years and regardless of what happens will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. All that matters is that Kim Jong-un and his inner circle know it won't happen, which I'd be willing to bet is the case.

41 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I can tell NK began manufacturing nuclear weapons after USA had shirked their part of the "Agreed Framework", put them on the axis of evil list and begun running a negative media campaign in their mainstream press.

There were loads of fuckups during the Bush administration and I'd never be naive enough to believe the US is somehow 100% free of any kind of wrongdoing or general jerkassery. However all I'm saying is that it's silly to believe that their advances towards nuclear capabilities were made purely in the interests of deterrence.

It's just another tool in their extortionist toolbox, which only becomes more sad once you realize how they could very well achieve the same goals without the threats of violence while creating a path, however long it may be towards a better life for NK and its citizens. Oh well, nothing I can do about it.

52 minutes ago, WileyWarWeasel said:

True, what will most likely happen is endless bickering and sabre rattling.

God bless planet Earth!

[KookyFox]

And the time ticks closer to midnight ^^

Isn't it beautiful how the hubris of a few can lock Doom upon the whole? I find that amazing. Honestly North Korea is clearly not the most frightning nuclear power out there!

Take Israël or India for instance ^w^

 

We emerged in silence from the animal reign, we will all go out in a roaring blast. And then there will be silence again.

[WileyWarWeasel]

11 hours ago, PastryOfApathy said:

It doesn't matter what the people think, especially when they've been indoctrinated to believe that the US has been on the verge of invasion 24/7 for the last 30 or so years and regardless of what happens will continue to do so for the foreseeable future. All that matters is that Kim Jong-un and his inner circle know it won't happen, which I'd be willing to bet is the case.

There were loads of fuckups during the Bush administration and I'd never be naive enough to believe the US is somehow 100% free of any kind of wrongdoing or general jerkassery. However all I'm saying is that it's silly to believe that their advances towards nuclear capabilities were made purely in the interests of deterrence.

It's just another tool in their extortionist toolbox, which only becomes more sad once you realize how they could very well achieve the same goals without the threats of violence while creating a path, however long it may be towards a better life for NK and its citizens. Oh well, nothing I can do about it.

God bless planet Earth!

Given the expenses in making even primitive nukes, the NK leadership at least must've thought the expenses would be worthwhile.

I'm not sure that NK has any way to directly extort much, with or without nukes as everyone knows if they do anything serious they'll get wiped off the map.

I'll agree that what they're doing does seem a bit sad and desperate though ;(

[Rassah]

The overall situation in NK is actually pretty simple:

Crazy dictator family at the top, which, a long time ago, implemented full communism (insert "you never go full retard meme" here) resulting an economically devastated country full of extremely poor and desperate people.

South Korean border is locked up tight. NO ONE is going in that direction.

Northern border is with China, a fellow communist (lite) nation.

But China DOES NOT want North Korean refugees pouring into their country.

China pays North Korean crazy dictator to keep him in power, have him keep feeding his people, and keep having him brutally keep his own people under control and not crossing any borders.

So in the end, China is stuck, having no choice but to keep paying to avoid a refugee crisis (and this one would be far worse than the Syrian one), North Korea is stuck being dependent on Chinese money, because after almost a century of full-on communism they have no economy of their own whatsoever or anyone educated enough to even begin figuring out how to start one, and all the people living in NK are stuck under the crazy person rule, since even saying you're not happy with the government gets you two years in a North Korean prison, with the usual starvation, illnesses, and mandatory bamboo splinters inserted slowly under your fingernails while you're tied to a chair. But you get to keep your fingers at least (baring any infection), because you are in Best Korea. (FYI, North Korea is still running full-on-Nazi style concentration camps. Like, exactly the same type, compete with starving people, mass executions, and human medical experiments including vivisections, except they usually just starve people to death instead of tossing them into ovens. But for whatever reason the world doesn't care)

Regarding the nukes, the crazy leader has just been feeling like he's not been getting enough attention, and is throwing a dictator equivalent of a temper tantrum. But he knows who's in charge (China), and China is getting sick of his shit.

Edited January 9, 2016 by Rassah