Warning discussion

[Ayattar]

I want a topic where we can PUBLICLY discuss warnings. It's been two days and I already have two ridiculous cases of moderators issuing 0 point warnings and deleting a topic.

So far, that forum is no better than FAF, with mods acting as they please, making arbitrary decisions. You haven't changed a bit. You wanted transparency? Then give us transparency.

 

And here you are. That super NSFW penis again, worth of deleting a topic and issuing a 0 point warning.

[Signy]

Which threads got axed? It wasn't the "dick pics" joke thread, was it? Because that one was off to a fantastic start.

[ArielMT]

I'm to blame for the dick pic one.  How should I have handled it?

[Guest]

Ayattar, didn't you say you were here to shitpost a couple days ago?

[Kalmor]

One was for posting an nsfw thread (with an actual nsfw image).

The other one I believe was for derailing and posting unhelpful content in the art subforum, a subforum that has almost always been for serious discussion.

Soooo how exactly were we supposed to react to that?

Edited September 30, 2015 by Kalmor

[Guest]

Ban wall. Ban wall! 

[Kalmor]

Also Ayattar, you were~ permanently banned from old FAF. You are toeing the line with regards to the rules and if you continue to do so/overstep that mark then I'll have no problems reinstating that ban.

p,s Also the dick picture was embedded in the removed thread, not linked like it is in this one. That certainly didn't help your case even if we allowed such topics in the first place.

[PastryOfApathy]

Ayattar senpai pls, don't get yourself banned again. ;_;

[Zerig]

Also Ayattar, you were~ permanently banned from old FAF. You are toeing the line with regards to the rules and if you continue to do so/overstep that mark then I'll have no problems reinstating that ban.

don't ban my husbando

i'll beat you up

[Toshabi]

Also Ayattar, you were~ permanently banned from old FAF. You are toeing the line with regards to the rules and if you continue to do so/overstep that mark then I'll have no problems reinstating that ban.

Can you not?

FAF is dead. This is something completely different. Not saying Ayattar was in the right or you guys were wrong to slap his pee pee with warnings, but can you like, stop bringing up this "YOU WERE BANNED ON FAF BEFORE >:C" bullshit? FAF was up the ass staunchy with rules. Most of the bans back then were from calling out dog diddler Chase to begin with. Either or, I'd like it if you'd stop bringing up the whole "past bans" deal. It's an eyesore of an argument to make.

 

Thank you~

[Kalmor]

Can you not?
FAF is dead. This is something completely different. Not saying Ayattar was in the right or you guys were wrong to slap his pee pee with warnings, but can you like, stop bringing up this "YOU WERE BANNED ON FAF BEFORE >:C" bullshit? FAF was up the ass staunchy with rules. Most of the bans back then were from calling out dog diddler Chase to begin with. Either or, I'd like it if you'd stop bringing up the whole "past bans" deal. It's an eyesore of an argument to make.

 

Thank you~

Not Ayattar's in particular, though. We had already started lifting bans people got themselves with the whole chasegate thing with the first version of phoenix.

The staff will however keep in mind past bans (obviously not from chasegate) from FAF, because by even having those bans in the first place gives us evidence to look at to see if a particular person is a fit for and/or the kind of person that is desired in the community, and obviously if that user has an extensive ban record then the answer tips more in favour of "no".

Having a blatant disregard for the rules, either out of malice, ignorance (wilful or not) or some sort of trolling, is what a previous history with bans and infractions shows to us in a lot of the cases we look out. Obviously some people receive mod intervention because they got hot headed and said something they shouldn't have done or that they just weren't aware of the rules (and accept that they fucked up). Those aren't the sorts of people we're talking about. We're talking about people who know the rules (since they have been infracted or banned before or have been here a long ass time) yet still continue to break them, deliberately or not. There are also those cases where people who seemingly deliberately test the fringes of the rules to try and bait us (mods) into doing something, this is especially the case with people whom we have given a final warning before a lengthy/perma ban.

[Toshabi]

Except you even flung that "Lol toshabi YOU were banned before and are skating thin ice" deal with me, even though my ban was a Chase ban for calling him a dog diddler. I think you, out of all the mods, are the most tryhard and heavy handed of the bunch. So this is a warning from Toshabi to you to cut it out, or else imma have to beat you up. 

 

But seriously, chill and quit bringing up past records. It's a new clean slate. It's a new game. Treat it as such, or does Toshabi need to teach you how to mod a new forum? I got puppets in my presentation, in case you need a refresher. 

[Ayattar]

Which threads got axed? It wasn't the "dick pics" joke thread, was it? Because that one was off to a fantastic start.

Yup. Dick pics.

Also Ayattar, you were~ permanently banned from old FAF. You are toeing the line with regards to the rules and if you continue to do so/overstep that mark then I'll have no problems reinstating that ban.

p,s Also the dick picture was embedded in the removed thread, not linked like it is in this one. That certainly didn't help your case even if we allowed such topics in the first place.

That would be the most hillarious thing you could do. Because first, you should ban yourself as well. Because, as far as I can remember you were permanently banned too. That you had a bunch of furfags backing you, and you were able to perform a putsch makes you no better. Bah! Even worse. Because, unlike you, I humbly stayed away, respectfull to decisions of mods and admins, using only legal ways to question my bans and warnings.

I even asked to be banned again after that temporary amnesty two months ago. Not to mention respecting the final decision, despite changing PC, internet provider and place of living, which would make impossible to identify me if I ever decided to create an alt account. So who does that make you in comparison to me?

So go ahead, make my day, be Dragoneer ver 1.02

Ban wall. Ban wall! 

Definitely we should have that.

There are forums which have so called pillory thread. Where admins are posting every ban and infraction they issue, with quoted source and explanation attached. And that is the way to do that, showing rest of the userbase their interpretation of the rules. But if they want to have another authocratic forum like FAF, where users can only dream of contesting staff decisions, then have fun, jumping out of the fire onto a frying pan.

Not to mention, that our current mods already proven to be hypocrites back on FAF, judgind and treating people who they like and dislike differently.

The other one I believe was for derailing and posting unhelpful content in the art subforum, a subforum that has almost always been for serious discussion.

Unhelpful and derailing? How do you exactly call "unhelpful and derailing" pointing towards the fact, that proportions aren't universal and stiff as they were presented by the OP? Sure, I did that in trollish way but still giving perfectly legit examples of styles and people who notoriously break those "rules", despite that being sucessfull.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Ayattar

[Ansitru]

Maybe don't announce that you're trolling if you're going to try and spin your replies as "not trolling" afterwards? I mean...

Damn hard to find SFW, right?
 

Okay, I'm done with trolling. Still, tutorials are for the weak. Real badasses learn through sliding down on sand paper.

[Kalmor]

Yup. Dick pics.

That would would be the most hillarious thing you could do. Because first, you should ban yourself as well. Because, as far as I can remember you were permamently banned too. That you had a bunch of furfags backing you, and you were able to perform a putsch makes you no better. Bah! Even worse. Because, unlike you, I humbly stayed away, respectfull to decisions of mods and admins, using only legal ways to question my bans and warnings.

So go ahead, make my day, be Dragoneer ver 1.02

Definitely we should have that.

There are forums which have so called pillory thread. Where admins are posting every ban and infraction they issue, with quoted source and explanation attached. And that is the way to do that, showing rest of the userbase their interpretation of the rules. But if they want to have another authocratic forum like FAF, where users can only dream of contesting staff decisions, then have fun, jumping out of the fire onto a frying pan.

Not to mention, that our current mods already proven to be hypocrites back on FAF, judgind and treating people who they like and dislike differently.

Unhelpful and derailing? How do you exactly call "unhelpful and derailing" pointing towards the fact, that proportions aren't universal and stiff as they were presented by the OP? Sure, I did that in trollish way but still giving perfectly legit examples of styles and people who notoriously those "rules", despite that being sucessfull.

1. No, my ban was illegitimate because I was banned for violating a "privacy agreement" I didn't even sign in the first place. Carenath (whom had admin privilages) backed me up on that and unbanned me precisely because it was unfair. We would do the same thing for any other member if an admin or indeed the rest of the mods thought the ban was unfair.... I don't know what exactly your point was with that.

2. The public ban thread thing is an option on the table and we will be discussing it further.

3. If you can find any evidence that we discriminate between users we "do and don't like" then I'd love to see it.

4. See ley's post about the art forum stuff...

[ArielMT]

And here you are. That super NSFW penis again, worth of deleting a topic and issuing a 0 point warning.

Here, you linked an image relevant to the discussion and gave it a suitable warning.  That's good enough in my book.

In the other thread, you embedded the image directly into the post where no warning can be given in advance.  Whatever is done to the original post is done to the whole thread, so when I hid the post (I didn't outright delete it), I hid the thread.  I chose that so that any other mod can undo it if it turns out something more appropriate could be done.

[Ayattar]

1. No, my ban was illegitimate because [...]

Sure mr. Dragoneer.

Done talking.

[Sidhenearlahi]

Sure mr. Dragoneer.

Done talking.

Confirmed for actual 12 year old.

[Ansitru]

Sure mr. Dragoneer.

Done talking.

Dude, calm your tits.

Seriously.

[Ayattar]

Here, you linked an image relevant to the discussion and gave it a suitable warning.  That's good enough in my book.

In the other thread, you embedded the image directly into the post where no warning can be given in advance.  Whatever is done to the original post is done to the whole thread, so when I hid the post (I didn't outright delete it), I hid the thread.  I chose that so that any other mod can undo it if it turns out something more appropriate could be done.

No comment. I didn't knew it was Saudi Arabia.

[PastryOfApathy]

Why can't we all be friends? Why can't we all just shitpost in peace?

[Kalmor]

Sure mr. Dragoneer.

I find it funny that you're calling me that since I have been against dragoneer's antics for a long time privately within the staff and I also helped Renashe plan her staff leaks before they were even made public, helping shed some light on the inner workings of FA.

And apparently myself and the team I'm a part of is not transparent and I'm comparable to dragoneer in your eyes. :V

[Toshabi]

O yah, I forgot Kalmor was banned on FAF before. Toshabi will make note of this for use in his court record.

[Ayattar]

And apparently myself and the team I'm a part of is not transparent and I'm comparable to dragoneer in your eyes. :V

You both have more in common with dragons than I do :V

[Zerig]

best FAF was FAF with no mods

just sayin

[Joshi]

Oh I knew the content of this thread as soon as I saw that its by Aya. Of course bitching around

[ArielMT]

No comment. I didn't knew it was Saudi Arabia.

Shock journalism shouldn't be tolerated, either. :\

[Zaraphayx]

The ban wall idea was totally mine and it got tanked by a punch of crybabies who didn't want to be infraction-shamed or something. I'll be honest I didn't read all the objections to it because I'm allergic to bad arguments and tears.

Also lmao @ all the moderation on a forum with like 30 dudes on it.

I promise guys you don't have to infract someone every time they make a pointed remark just so people think you're active.

Finally,

best FAF was FAF with no mods

just sayin

Yes.

[Sidewalk Surfboard]

Oh boo hoo. Go cry yourself to sleep.

[Guest]

This is stupid.

[Nolow]

Agreed this is stupid, but I like the idea of a ban wall.

[Butters]

I too liked the idea of the ban wall. It communicates to the community what will be put up with and of course is great for mod transparency. 

Kal and Ariel have acted appropriately and are doing their job. There's a reason we have mods after all. 

[Guest]

I have seen the rules thread. Why can't we even discuss about it I have no idea (the thread is locked) but I'll say here that the spam section should be revised. The fact that we're actually not allowed to have general chat threads, for instance, is complete utter bollocks. I can't be arsed with reading the rest but for now that's the one rule that bothers me the most

Edited September 30, 2015 by Guest

[Toshabi]

I find it funny that you're calling me that since I have been against dragoneer's antics for a long time privately within the staff 

 

I'm calling bullshit on this, considering you were giving him and Chase head during the great shitstorm of 2013 and then some after. A darling quote from you I threw in my signature was proof enough of this.

 

I have seen the rules thread. Why can't we even discuss about it I have no idea (the thread is locked) but I'll say here that the spam section should be revised. The fact that we're actually not allowed to have general chat threads, for instance, is complete utter bollocks. I can't be arsed with reading the rest but for now that's the one rule that bothers me the most

There is a general chat thread. The rules Kalmor posted were copy pasta'd from FAF.

[Ayattar]

Rules, which were posted 30 minutes ago. And since lex retro non agit, I demand full absolution.
And of course Butters taking that stance was to be expected.

[Butters]

I have seen the rules thread. Why can't we even discuss about it I have no idea (the thread is locked) but I'll say here that the spam section should be revised. The fact that we're actually not allowed to have general chat threads, for instance, is complete utter bollocks. I can't be arsed with reading the rest but for now that's the one rule that bothers me the most

I think we actually have two general chat threads. If you count the black hole. So prehaps they forgot about it when they copy and pasted the rules. Surely, they'll remove that soon. 

[Kalmor]

I'm calling bullshit on this, considering you were giving him and Chase head during the great shitstorm of 2013 and then some after. A darling quote from you I threw in my signature was proof enough of this.

Did you read the post in the imgur album I linked?

 

Rules, which were posted 30 minutes ago. And since lex retro non agit, I demand full absolution.
And of course Butters taking that stance was to be expected.

We had been enforcing them anyway, you weren't the only one.

I just thought I'd post that thread to remind everyone.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Kalmor

[Kaedal]

Not even a week old, and already there's juvenile anti-authority rebelling, personal attacks and discourse. Pick yourselves up people, and discuss it like adults instead of flinging shit about like a bunch of gorillas.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Kaedal

[Zaraphayx]

He says while posting nothing constructive and a generic "you're immature :^)" comment.

:getout:

[Toshabi]

Did you read the post in the imgur album I linked?

 

Did you not remember the quote from you I had in my signature? You posted that in 2014 complaining about stagnation and corruption and FA staff being anything but lucid/transparent with events, and yet you took every chance you could in those site discussion threads to defend and parrot what they wanted you to say. 

 

So don't herald this "I am teh ultimate rebel! lolz" mentality when you were anything but that till you got removed from power. 

Edited September 30, 2015 by Toshabi

[Ansitru]

Did you not remember the quote from you I had in my signature? You posted that in 2014 complaining about stagnation and corruption and FA staff being anything but lucid/transparent with events, and yet you took every chance you could in those site discussion threads to defend and parrot what they wanted you to say. 

 

So don't herald this "I am teh ultimate rebel! lolz" mentality when you were anything but that till you got removed from power. 

Isn't that more to do with being a teenage mod, though? I mean, if you were giving mod-powers at the age of 16 (or was it earlier? Either way Neer fucked up there.) would you be willing to let them go? 

Not that that makes everything magically better, but there's that perspective I suppose.

[Ayattar]

We had been enforcing them anyway, you weren't the only one.

I just thought I'd post that thread to remind everyone.

You can't enforce rules which don't exist. It's not Judge Dredd. Different movie.

 

Not even a week old, and already there's juvenile anti-authority rebelling, personal attacks and discourse. Pick yourselves up people, and discuss it like adults instead of flinging shit about like a bunch of gorillas.

Not rebeling. Using my very basic law for defending myself against unjust accusations. And whilst they don't bring any direct effects with them, it's still harmfull. Especially since those warnings are borderline acceptable even in the light of the rules Kalmor posted.

For as long as I have even slightest doubt, if recieved warnings and/or bans were right or not, I'll be questioning them, just as I'm willing to question bans and/or warnings issued to other people.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Ayattar

[Butters]

Rules, which were posted 30 minutes ago. And since lex retro non agit, I demand full absolution.
And of course Butters taking that stance was to be expected.

A lot of people don't know this, but I'm the puppet master of FAF/Phoenix. When I say jump, they say "how high?" Everyone usually just thinks I'm joking (and they still will ;3) 

You thought the mods left because of ID access and because they were tired of Neer? WRONG! It was cuz I was tired of them! :v

Now dance, puppets, dance~ 

[Toshabi]

Isn't that more to do with being a teenage mod, though? I mean, if you were giving mod-powers at the age of 16 (or was it earlier? Either way Neer fucked up there.) would you be willing to let them go? 

Not that that makes everything magically better, but there's that perspective I suppose.

Pretty much. It's why I've been against the concept of teenage mods since the conception of neopets guilds.

Also, I'm not trying to be overly spiteful here, but I can't stand when people say they're something they aren't. And I ain't one to sugar coat it either. 

[Kalmor]

Did you not remember the quote from you I had in my signature? You posted that in 2014 complaining about stagnation and corruption and FA staff being anything but lucid/transparent with events, and yet you took every chance you could in those site discussion threads to defend and parrot what they wanted you to say. 

 

So don't herald this "I am teh ultimate rebel! lolz" mentality when you were anything but that till you got removed from power. 

You don't know what you're talking about. You weren't there while I kept stressing in upper management in staff channels and PMs to keep the community informed about what they were doing and listen to user input EVERY SINGLE TIME a community related issue came up. I had to put on a face like what you describe publicly otherwise I'd be removed from staff faster than an eversleep ban evasion account for the exact same reason Renashe was (being "too critical of FA" on her FA account while she was a mod). I wanted to stay not because of a fucked up power fantasy you accuse me of but because I still had even the tiniest of hopes things may get better and what I was doing on the inside would start to change things. When Renashe came along, we both continued to do the same thing I had done for years, trying to change things on the inside for the good of the community (only now a bit more, uh, "agressively"). Only after she, one of the most community driven staffers I have ever known, got removed for a bullshit reason did I lose that modicum of hope.

Please stop trying to talk about these things as if you know about them because you most definitely don't.

[Ansitru]

Pretty much. It's why I've been against the concept of teenage mods since the conception of neopets guilds.

Also, I'm not trying to be overly spiteful here, but I can't stand when people say they're something they aren't. And I ain't one to sugar coat it either. 

Yeah. I mean, no offense Kalmor, you seem like a pretty swell guy all around, but you shouldn't have been made a mod while you were still underaged. Especially since Neer wanted everyone to sign NDAs and teenagers can't sign legally binding contracts afaik. 

I feel like only people aged 18 and up should be allowed to apply, personally. D:

[Kaedal]

Not rebeling. Using my very basic law for defending myself against unjust accusations. And whilst they don't bring any direct effects with them, it's still harmfull. Especially since those warnings are borderline acceptable even in the light of the rules Kalmor posted.

For as long as I have even slightest doubt, if recieved warnings and/or bans were right or not, I'll be questioning them, just as I'm willing to question bans and/or warnings issued to other people.

That's a sentiment I can agree with, certainly. We should be able to appeal warnings and bans, though I can't really think of a good way to do that without it turning into a congressional mudslinging contest. 

 

I've been on both sides of the fence. Fortunately, the place I was employed had a great hierarchy that made appeals very effective. I saw a senior staffer completely demoted for losing her shit with a member. It does make me a bit biased, though, since I've dealt with a lot of people that are simply anti-authority, regardless of any actual reasons. 

[Guest]

There is a general chat thread. The rules Kalmor posted were copy pasta'd from FAF.

I know I know, I was just afraid they were going to reuse that absurd rule. There seriously is no reason to have it

I think we actually have two general chat threads. If you count the black hole. So prehaps they forgot about it when they copy and pasted the rules. Surely, they'll remove that soon. 

Agreed

[Toshabi]

You don't know what you're talking about. You weren't there while I kept stressing in upper management in staff channels and PMs to keep the community informed about what they were doing and listen to user input EVERY SINGLE TIME a community related issue came up. I had to put on a face like what you describe publicly otherwise I'd be removed from staff faster than an eversleep ban evasion account for the exact same reason Renashe was (being "too critical of FA" on her FA account while she was a mod). I wanted to stay not because of a fucked up power fantasy you accuse me of but because I still had even the tiniest of hopes things may get better and what I was doing on the inside would start to change things. When Renashe came along, we both continued to do the same thing I had done for years, trying to change things on the inside for the good of the community (only now a bit more, uh, "agressively"). Only after she, one of the most community driven staffers I have ever known, got removed for a bullshit reason did I lose that modicum of hope.

Please stop trying to talk about these things as if you know about them because you most definitely don't.

You're full of it. Simple as that. It's why I won't respect you, internet wise. Ever. 

Parade that title of "FA Rebel" till the day you fall off the internet, most people here know you're full of crap. You certainly didn't show it to us lowly people you moderated when site discussion would open up. And the fact that you willingly defended that shit claiming what you just claimed makes you one hell of a two-face. That or you're incredibly ignorant, but I think we all know you're better than that.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Toshabi

[Kalmor]

That's a sentiment I can agree with, certainly. We should be able to appeal warnings and bans,

You can.

You're full of it. Simple as that. It's why I won't respect you, internet wise. Ever. 

Parade that title of "FA Rebel" till the day you fall off the internet, most people here know you're full of crap. You certainly didn't show it to us lowly people you moderated when site discussion would open up. And the fact that you willingly defended that shit claiming what you just claimed makes you one hell of a two-face. That or you're incredibly ignorant, but I think we all know you're better than that.

Well I'm sorry you feel like that. Obviously I can't say anything to convince you otherwise.