Feelwell Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 I want to see somebody get statistics for the drama levels in all the fandoms, and display which fandoms have the highest and centering around what. As for the dudes comic, whatever. His consequences his art, he can draw whatever he wants. I find it sorta odd that drawing certain things is illegal, even if it's in private. I mean it being posted is obviously public, but would you be arrested if you never distributed it? A moot point I suppose though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelwell Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Oh wait, just remembered he's obviously lying about the age on FA. That is a bit scummy but I don't know why he's deluding himself. The lordlings of FA won't touch him so long as he brings traffic. Just now, 6tails said: There's a saying in law - Possession is 9/10ths of it. I suppose it's unlikely anyone would know if you always kept it to yourself, but really I don't care. I suppose if they aren't hurting anybody then let them do them. Now if they ARE actually pursuing that sort of deviancy, that's a whole different story and that shit needs to be taken out with extreme prejudice. And fire. But that again just brings up the age old debate '"Is Art preferable because its an alternative to the real thing" which will never be settled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallium Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Should I be grateful that I can no longer get into my account to view anything on FA? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 10 hours ago, Punnchy said: Cases like this where it is held against violating parties, are still happening, this isn't a small issue of one person somewhere has been caught with drawn porn. If you read this us law (which you liked to): https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1466A then there's a very specific line that can be interpreted and makes Zaush a drawer of pedophilia and FA a host of such works. I linked it because it was the first case that convicted a person for having drawn child pornography in their collection, not because it is a singular issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 10 hours ago, Battlechili said: That case you linked referenced the Protect Act, which was deemed unconstitutional in 2008. I'm not saying you're wrong overall, but that case is old and laws have changed. Its also worth noting that the man convicted was charged with having actual images of child pornography in the late 90s, which likely played a part in his conviction. Almost every single time someone is criminalized for such, actual child pornography is involved in some manner. I will correct myself though; it is illegal in some states. Really curious to see what'll happen once Kodomo no Jikan gets published in the West. Its currently having a Kickstarter for an uncensored Western release. Its basically a lolicon manga that was refused localization several years ago due to being "unfit for the West". It's actually still in effect... Is it enforced? Not likely, but if you get caught molesting children, in possession of, or "Sexting", they'll use it against you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 6 minutes ago, Enigma said: I like his art too. I don't think the artist should effect how you feel about the art itself. I think this is true to an extent. like there are a bunch of music artists I listen to despite the fact that they've done bad things, so I can usually ignore stuff like that, but if it's true that he "aged up" the characters to bypass FA's upload policy, that's pretty shitty 3 minutes ago, Feelwell the Rabbit said: I find it sorta odd that drawing certain things is illegal, even if it's in private. I mean it being posted is obviously public, but would you be arrested if you never distributed it? A moot point I suppose though. it's tricky. no you wouldn't be arrested if you just drew it and never showed anyone, but you could potentially be charged with possession if you were arrested for a different crime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, 6tails said: I wonder if this is the case for those using Adobe's Creative Cloud, given how it works... I guess we'll see if someone inevitably gets arrested because Adobe found drawn child porn in their cloud :v Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless/Nameless Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 All the apologists here need only look at my signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Käpt'n Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 7 hours ago, willow said: THE THING I HATE ABOUT ZAUSH IS THAT HIS ART IS KINDA GOOD BUT HE'S SUCH A GROSS PERSON It's true, I mean look at this: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/19884464/ (It's safe.) His style is appealing and his backgrounds are neat as well. Oh and about the comic, I did a little research. It was probably a commission. The four page prequel to it was commissioned by this guy: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/sawolf151/ His character is the maned wolf asshole. He has a small amount of child porn in his Inkbunny favorites as well. As for the underage characters, Zaush apparently retconned that. He made comments about the younger one being in 5th grade but those comments are gone as it seems. Now he wants to leave their age "up to interpretation", which is utter bullshit. We all know he did that to be able to upload the comic on all sites. Zaush made comics in the past and they were not this awful. They were typical stuff, a little stupid but drawn well without an overly dramatic plot. This one being a commission doesn't make the situation any better, but at least it explains why it's so incredibly awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasma Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 You people keep drawing me out of seclusion with topics that draw me to a flame. I'm going to be blunt about this, cub porn/loli/whatever is child porn. As in it is pedophilia. If you need *child*like qualities in a pornographic piece, you like children sexually. I'm not saying only if in art or not in art, but in all seriousness I will not budge on this. I don't judge people for their tastes, but there is no redemption for cub porn, frankly. I can see no way in which it does not contribute to the fetisation fo children which leads to child abuse and rape. All of you who pass this off kind of make me sick, even though I respect you I cannot respect your opinion. Â Â Pedophilia is not okay and in my opinion should be utterly illegal in all it's forms including cub porn, japanese child porn, and whatever else one can think of. Im not saying there shouldn't be help for those people but this is not help, this is feeding their desire to sexualize children and normalizing it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zeke Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 4 hours ago, Käpt'n said: It's true, I mean look at this: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/19884464/ (It's safe.) His style is appealing and his backgrounds are neat as well. Oh and about the comic, I did a little research. It was probably a commission. The four page prequel to it was commissioned by this guy: https://www.furaffinity.net/user/sawolf151/ His character is the maned wolf asshole. He has a small amount of child porn in his Inkbunny favorites as well. As for the underage characters, Zaush apparently retconned that. He made comments about the younger one being in 5th grade but those comments are gone as it seems. Now he wants to leave their age "up to interpretation", which is utter bullshit. We all know he did that to be able to upload the comic on all sites. Zaush made comics in the past and they were not this awful. They were typical stuff, a little stupid but drawn well without an overly dramatic plot. This one being a commission doesn't make the situation any better, but at least it explains why it's so incredibly awful. which means he doesn't really care unless you throw money at him. MOONNNNeeeHHH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thundeere Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 36 minutes ago, Johanna Waya said: As in it is pedophilia. If you need *child*like qualities in a pornographic piece, you like children sexually. I'm not saying only if in art or not in art, but in all seriousness I will not budge on this. I was going to refrain from rejoining the debate in a serious manner, but I wanted to address this part. I think most of us here can admit we enjoy animal-like qualities in porn, but that doesn't automatically make us zoophiles. The issue isn't as clear cut as that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelwell Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Zeke said: which means he doesn't really care unless you throw money at him. MOONNNNeeeHHH! It's amazing how flexible morals can be when you've got a couple bucks thrown your way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlynnCoyote Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 41 minutes ago, Johanna Waya said: I will not budge on this. This is exactly the kind of approach that makes trying to have a two sided discussion impossible. Let me be clear, two years ago I shared your opinion to the letter. A few hours of extensive research into the matter changed my mind. Most people never do this. Have you? Pedophilia is horrible, yes. But for every child molester that gets caught acting on his/her desires, there are dozens of others that will always keep themselves in check. Having fictional victimless drawings to use as alternatives to rub one out over seems to be the preferred method of controlling themselves. They understand full well that actual child pornography is every bit as bad as if they went after the kids themselves, so they don't do it. There is at least one online community that is dedicated to this approach and they act as a sort of support group. And I'm not talking about IB here, I'm talking about forums that actually take the matter seriously. Attitudes like yours being the prevailing public opinion is a big part of why these people can't seek more conventional professional help. The few that do participate in psychological studies in articles I've read always go to lengths to remain anonymous and it's not surprising why. All because most people never distinguish between a pedophile and an actual child molester. The two cases aren't even always linked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless/Nameless Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, FlynnCoyote said: This is exactly the kind of approach that makes trying to have a two sided discussion impossible. I am ok with this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlynnCoyote Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Endless/Nameless said: I am ok with this. Well that's just fucked up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 1 minute ago, Endless/Nameless said: I am ok with this. Don't be a Ken Ham. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mapa Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 "Cub porn is gross!" "But it harms no one!" "But it leads to child molestation!" "But it doesn't! It's just an outlet!" This argument has been going in circles since the day it started. Unless someone can bring some actual evidence to the table, I don't see this going anywhere. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminal7 Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, FlynnCoyote said: Well that's just fucked up. You would need to only explain your position instead of justifying it. With a topic as strict as morality , you shouldn't really expect anybody to budge. It would take their personal experiences to change their beliefs, or at least their perspective.   Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasma Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 @FlynnCoyote By no means do I encourage dehumanization of those that feel these urges or anything else that contributes to almost encouraging them to deal (or not deal) in private. At the same time, this is not a way that is in anyway morally decent in that it does not fix the issue, it sticks a bandaid on it and says have fun. That does not help the children who are raped and does not help those who try to be better.  Look, I have been addicted to fetishy stuff in the past. Particularly hypnosis (especially of the brainwashing variety). No matter how tame indulging in those urges just makes things worse. It makes it so they cannot go away. The way it works is the more images you see like that, the more present they are in your subconscious to the point where they show up so damn much they infiltrate and ruin your dreams. The more you masturbate to them, the more you will assosciate that arousal with the form of a child. I have been part to a more intimate knowledge of the human mind works as both a subject and a hypnotist and it can't just shrug things like that off. Now, what this means is that those who do want to stop obviously don't do this or they really make it hard for themselves... but what I think it really means is that all those people trying to help themselves aren't really seeing anything wrong with being attracted to children. They see things wrong in how it would hurt them (maybe) and mostly in how society reacts to such a thing. It's like enjoying the idea of murdering people but not doing it because you know it's wrong so you play games where you murder people so you can still feel it without the guilt.  And hey look, I'm sure there are some misguided people with mental health issues that don't see pedophillia as hurting children, or see it as some kind of fix for a lost childhood. They need guidance and help while being removed from the potential to do harm.   TL;DR (you should read though) Drawn child porn fixes shit like someone suffering from infidelity constantly looking at sexy people online and fantasising about cheating with them. It just doesn't fix shit. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlynnCoyote Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I didn't say an outlet would fix anything. I said:Â a: The outlet is preferable to someone victimizing real children. b: More importantly, it is all but impossible to find a real fix to the issue if the prevailing attitude can be summed up with quotes like: 1 hour ago, Johanna Waya said: Pedophilia is not okay and in my opinion should be utterly illegal in all it's forms Because for one thing it reinforces the idea that they are monsters even when they actively try not to be, And two, as I've said nobody has the right to tell anyone else what they can and can't draw. Frankly I think artistic freedom is important, I don't really care for what Zaush is doing here outside the blatant hypocrisy involved, but I think that whole problem is secondary to the fact that non acting pedophiles can't easily find the help they need because of attitudes like those of you and Endless Ken Ham there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falaffel Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 We're going to have the same argument we've already had twice before. At some point we'll learn to stop talking about morality because it's subjective as fuck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falaffel Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, 6tails said: Loving the mixup of morals and ethics. Morals are for religious people afraid of going to hell. I can firmly say that being an ordained minister. Ethics are for those that do not require a deity to tell them how to live an appropriate life. I can firmly say that being an atheist. Back to the regularly-scheduled convo. Wait, hold on.  We're going to have the same argument we've already had twice before. At some point we'll learn to stop talking about ethics because it's subjective as fuck.  Got it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaCat Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, 6tails said: Loving the mixup of morals and ethics. Morals are for religious people afraid of going to hell. I can firmly say that being an ordained minister. Ethics are for those that do not require a deity to tell them how to live an appropriate life. I can firmly say that being an atheist. Back to the regularly-scheduled convo. Semantics 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falaffel Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 3 minutes ago, Battlechili said: Semantics Being fair, they're more interesting to argue than reiterating the same points for the third time in such a short amount of time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantasma Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Oh come on, I just spent all that time explaining why pedohiliac drawings do not help anyone and really serve as a way of normalizing things that should not be normalized, and you guys just use the excuse of artistic freedom. Okay how about this, everyone who enjoys drawing children getting fucked should go to fucking therapy because they enjoy the sight of CHILDREN GETTIMG FUCKED. I don't see how artistic freedom should apply to something like this because material of a pedophiliac nature really makes things worse for everyone involved.   Look, keep living in your bubbles and getting of to something tht destroys lives when it happens in real life. Keep sponging your fucking brain with it until one day you walk by a park and think of the things you fap to as you see a child play. I hope you get scared by it, I hope you realize how fucked up that is. If by some miracle you can seperate that stuff in your brain then why the fuck do you even like it?  You know, I'm in the mood to brainwash some people, mildly in the mood. Just to demonstrate to the world how basic operant conditioning plays a part in every day life. Maybe I will find one of those people who masturbated every day to the idea to the point they found the idea of virtually ruining someone elses brain and life so appealing they do it. Then they do it again. Maybe I'll lure them in with my sweet words acting like I'm new to this, and melt them down and just tear them apart.... They don't need to function day to day, atleast that's what they think of everyone they like like me.  This rant went way off course into something not suitable for this forum so I return again to my lurking. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlynnCoyote Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 6 minutes ago, Johanna Waya said: Oh come on, I just spent all that time explaining why pedohiliac drawings do not help anyone and really serve as a way of normalizing things that should not be normalized, and you guys just use the excuse of artistic freedom. Okay how about this, everyone who enjoys drawing children getting fucked should go to fucking therapy because they enjoy the sight of CHILDREN GETTIMG FUCKED. I don't see how artistic freedom should apply to something like this because material of a pedophiliac nature really makes things worse for everyone involved. I am not going to dispute that. I'm saying they're mostly afraid to open up about it. The decision to go to therapy is not an easy one. I also think you're letting the horror factor dictate your argument. Yes it's a horrible issue, but rationality is the best way to resolve these issues long term. If people could stop and think rather than just shout EW PEDOS KILL THEM then we might actually start getting somewhere. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enigma Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Let me state for the record, I am against pedophilia and child porn. I agree with @Johanna Waya's stance, but the way he puts it is just somewhat off to me. He is very... assertive about it. The way he makes it sound everyone who has a fantasy is going to act it out eventually and its a spiraling pit into darker things. I used to have friends who where into cub porn, but not because they wanted to harm children. It was because they were cub furs. They had no interest in children, but their character was a cub. Also, as crappy as it sounds Zaush "uped" the age of the female characters. (Even though we know its BS) In this fictional world of pant-less anthropomorphic creatures, how the hell are we to tell what their age actually is? He can change their ages on a whim.  I didn't like the comic. The story was garbage, the fox character was a forced in annoying character, the girls were cringe inducing drama magnets and everyone is horrible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imperial Impact Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 27 minutes ago, Enigma said: Zaush is retarded and a horrid writer. Oh look, I was about to say the very same thing, But you beat it to me.  LOOKS LIKE I DIDN'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaCat Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 27 minutes ago, Saxon said: Go ahead and draw images glorifying the third Reich 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Feelwell Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 12 minutes ago, Sylver said: I love asking questions because it makes targeting the heart of the discussion much easier. My question is: How could this type of art prove detrimental to society? Furries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Look... guys. I think there's something here folks either just aren't accepting or willfully ignoring. Child Porn, Cub Porn, Loli, Shota, depicts artwork of an underage character in sexually explicit situations, popularly age 5-13. Jailbait follows quickly behind that, ages between 14-16. Drawn, rendered, 3D modeled, whatever, it is a kid- a vulnerable person who literally does not ever have the maturity or even ability to consent to an adult in real life- in sexually explcit fantasies. For some people that's like fantasizing about having sex with their grandmother. Its an all over, bodily, icky feeling. And the correct majority of the world is disgusted by that fact. Child porn is not a wacky new thing that just needs more scientific data. Its not something that just needs to be phrased differently or repackaged as a good thing like GMOs being introduced to the public. This is not something you will ever be able to convince those with convictions that child porn is okay. Those of you who changed their minds under artistic freedom or whatever; more power to you. But there's folks here that'll never be able to reconcile cub porn =/= artistic freedom. I'm sure a lot of folks here are all about artistic freedom. They're also free to tell a person who exercises that they're disgusting people. That is the price of freedom; you're not free of judgement. Nor will you ever be. You will never be able to convince me, for instance, that someone who draws child porn isn't disgusting, someone who gets paid to draw child porn isn't disgusting, and of course, someone who gets off to it isn't disgusting and absolutely, irreveserbly, unredeemable. I think people who even get off to underage characters are sick, full stop, do not pass go, do not collect 200. If a person has these desires, in my beliefs, they go straight for therapy, medication, and abstaining from looking, producing, or drawing out their desires. Same way you probably think someone with a scat fetish is fucked up. That is the freedom, however ugly, we reserve the right to hold. And if that makes us terrible people, well.. that's not exactly something I have a problem with. That is why this debate is going in circles. This is why there's folks who just will not shut up (on both sides) and bring up the same tired arguments. There's folks on the forum that thinks cub porn is disgusting. This, to them, is an unwavering fact. There's people here who think its a simple matter of artistic freedom, or hey, that its a victimless crime. That's fine. I don't care. Those opinions are like my neighbor's lawn; not my problem. And on my lawn, on my property, there's a sign that is bolted to the wall that says "Liking Cub Porn is bad and you should feel bad." Either accept that the above is true and walk away from this infuriating cyclone of roundabout bullshit, or continue to be willfully ignorant of the fact that this is not something you can convince someone to be okay with. Edit: And as far as my opinon on zaush goes: he needs to call a spade a spade. If on every other site he uploaded this the girls were in 5th grade, it is "cub porn" under FAs TOS and needs to be taken down. As far as "cub porn bans" in general, a site is free to ban that content from their site. Those of you who want to find cub porn, there's other sites for it. Accept that it will always be an insignificantly small niche that not everyone needs to cater to. And I will continue to support the websites that ban it.  Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deskai Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 23 minutes ago, Sylver said: Not sure if the above is directed (partially) at me. I'm not trying to change anyone's opinion or prove which side is right/wrong. As I said in a previous post, it's not something I can change and doesn't impact my life, therefore I don't really care about it. I enjoy debating and thinking about things =/ I'll even take the opposing side if it's lacking. It's a shame that I can't argue something without people assuming those are my beliefs and feelings on a subject (not necessarily relevant to here). It's almost anti-intellectualism. you are going about it wrong One should never be a devil advocate unless they are willing to be tied to the devil and one who time to time devil advocate I'm fine with that already to have my name ruined as it already been in some places. Its why I take a grounds in the middle Currently Inkbunny is having a problem of people drawing HUMAN underage characters that their human ban suppose to have dealt with but they are bypassing the rule by censoring but linking to the image to elsewhere. SoFurry on the hand have not dealt with this problem as they have a strict ban on drawn children in porn while being lax by allowing adult humans.  2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 For the record, my effort post was to everyone arguing about this insufferably drawn out topic and no one specific. If someone took at that way, sorry broski. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 1 minute ago, Toboe said: The "It normalizes (sexual) child abuse" vs "It is a vent and allowing cub drawings might help get them into therapy" debate could use some facts. I mean, sure. Let professionals try and find those facts and do studies to see if it helps or not. If they do, cool. Still gross. If they dont, whatever. Still gross.  I wasn't arguin' about that, specifically. Though if I read it the way you meant, (I think), you weren't talking about what I said.... but I mean, since no one can bring up actual facts other than some frankensteined rule that was put to death in 2008 but cherrypicked in random cases afterwards, or some loose studies that may or may not support someone's unprofessional theory... well, no scientific discoveries are gonna be made here. I just think the whole thing is nasty, and my posts tl;dr is that no one will come up with an argument for cub porn to change someone's mind bout it bein nasty. Folks trying to advocate that I figure wrongfully assume its just something that needs to be calmly discoursed about, or that folks just gotta argue rationally.. this isnt a strategy meeting. Its child porn, and for some its straight gross. Its black n white and it'll forever be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vae Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I don't get the "it leads to therapy" bullshit, because... you know... Why not just directly seek therapy, then? Why do people post this on the internet? Drawing it is one thing. I mean, that's bad, and I'm not gonna defend that, but it can still retain some semblance of the idea of "private expression" in something one might feel badly about, if they actually kept it private. What we're talking specifically about is posting it online. Then, it stops being a private expression. It becomes a public expression. You are submitting it to the public. I don't understand why people have such difficulty with the difference between private versus public, but, full stop, there is no fucking reason to be posting that kind of shit online, unless you already accept it on some level, and want others to share that with you. And that's not fucking okay in the subject of fetishizing children. It just isn't. "Buh buh buh mai freedums." I don't care. You're making it public. That's your own goddamned fault. No one is obligated to cater to you, or to this kind of shit. And they shouldn't be, either. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallium Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I guess I'll chime in on this subject vaguely, I really do agree with the fact that lolishota shiz can tend to normalize the culture around it, and that part of it is fucked up. In fact there are circles online that post that stuff as if it werent abnormal, 'oh people do it so its fine', and that draws people in...the caveat to this sort of thing is it turns out it really is PEDOPHILE FODDER, as in those who are attracted to children look at it. Being attracted to children is not okay, at all, so looking at stuff which involves not sexually mature people is not okay. So if you dont want to BE a pedo, dont look at pedo stuff. If it exists out there, it exists, But you, as a person, do you really want to contribute to that? Its simple as that. Especially when there's much more to look at that involves better subject matters.  I'd have more to say but I'd rather not start some fires. Some things can be relegated to fantasy but there needs to be strict guidelines where that is drawn with the obvious rules of consent involved...  2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaCat Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 I don't like arguments regarding cub porn's validity as a coping mechanism and/or an alternative to the real thing/exists in a way to protect children thing because all such arguments imply that cub porn and pedophilia have something to do with each other. I don't see anything wrong with uploading such content onto the internet as a public affair either. I see it as people like sharing things they like with other people who like the same thing, or people allowing others to appreciate the artistic merits of artwork beyond its pornographic state and use it as a means of criticizing an artist's ability as an artist. I don't see these images as children in the sense that people look at it and see child porn. The two are completely incomparable in my mind, to the point that if it wasn't for many here, I'd forget that people in general think anything of it (as I've often have). There's a research paper written on the subject that I saw posted somewhere once; I'll go looking for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitaly Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Disgusting. But even more disgusting is that so many people are trying to justify Zaush, like it's not his fault, he's just received such commission. You're an artist, not a whore. if someone offers you to draw stupid pedo incest comic you have right to refuse. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toboe Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 54 minutes ago, Toboe said: @Lemon I'm taking the debate as "which option (ban/noban) is better for reducing actual child abuse" and if you read my post as "Would be useful to have cites of professionals on which way is better suited to reduce abuse, rather than our ideas how it might work" then you got it right. Â I don't think anyone is arguing that it isn't nasty, just on which of side of the "just gross"/"crime" it should be. Hm, 2 posts... Words, yum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vallium Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 20 minutes ago, Vitaly said: Disgusting. But even more disgusting is that so many people are trying to justify Zaush, like it's not his fault, he's just received such commission. You're an artist, not a whore. if someone offers you to draw stupid pedo incest comic you have right to refuse. Nope, clearly a whore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZorroValdez Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 So drawing cub pron is fine if you have a huge following that brings traffic to the site... I don't get it. I feel like this should be explained... with crayons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
root Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless/Nameless Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 allowing underage art ≠more individuals seeking therapy Are people sincerely trying to make that argument? If anything it will help them feel more comfortable in their position.  I can understand the argument that not utterly ostracizing those who admit to such feeling would make them feel freer to talk about it/seek help, but that's basically a moot point because neither can we treat such activity/desire sweetly. Some things you simply cannot and should not feel good about. 2 hours ago, Battlechili said: I don't like arguments regarding cub porn's validity...because all such arguments imply that cub porn and pedophilia have something to do with each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrishaCat Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 7 minutes ago, Endless/Nameless said: spongebob fish You left out the most important part of that quote. Certain specific arguments that imply such bother me. I'm sorry, but that's just how I see it. The two are incomparable in my eyes. There is such a jump between 2D and 3D images that I find it hard to consider the two comparable or to consider the idea of liking such drawings as meaning an attraction to children. That's partially why I hold the stance that I do. Yes, I'm gazing upon your signature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toshabi Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Â Â "Hey guys! A little Teaser for my next porno! Practically life like! Plz dun't call cops LOL JK GO AHEAD I'M POPUFUR" - Â Zaush 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rassah Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Thanks for bumping this thread to the top. I almost missed this comic. Also, weird how so many people still think that art of underage characters is illegal Kids read about underage fictional characters having sex in schools even. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endless/Nameless Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 26 minutes ago, Battlechili said: You left out the most important part of that quote. Certain specific arguments that imply such bother me. I'm sorry, but that's just how I see it. The two are incomparable in my eyes. There is such a jump between 2D and 3D images that I find it hard to consider the two comparable or to consider the idea of liking such drawings as meaning an attraction to children. That's partially why I hold the stance that I do. I only included the basic premise of your statement, which is what I was directly concerned with. To you there may appear to be no relation between the two, but I beg to differ. Whatever one may draw for their pleasure, you must hold some sort of affinity to what you are depicting. I am not going to paint a bridge if I hate bridges. I am not going to carve a rabbit out of a block of wood if I despise rabbits. Neither will one draw underage characters fucking/being fucked if they don't enjoy the thought to some extent, or see some sort of beauty in it. You can make the argument that one may still make depictions of things they disapprove of for shock value (e.g. Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time in America; a film that I still don't know whether to feel disturbed by or not), but that's a discussion for another day. Now, you may disagree with me, and that is your right even if it disgusts me. But I hold these simple truths to be self-evident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willow Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 21 minutes ago, Rassah said:  Kids read about underage fictional characters having sex in schools even  very seldom do writers go into graphic detail about the subject. they usually just imply it happened and then move on. also good to note that those characters are usually around 17 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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